95 replies to this topic

[Mandzipop]

I don't want to merge this with the Alonso thread as he is not the only driver to have achieved it.

Ok I admit, I'd never heard of it before this weekend which is probably due to the fact that nowadays it is almost impossible to do. A question I do have (for any stat nut), has it ever been done before when the driver who achieves it, is not in the fastest car? Vettel had the faster car, but due to stuffing it up in quali, Alonso's getting lucky when he posted the fastest lap (just before reaching the backmarkers so Vettel couldn't match it), great strategy from Ferrari and the move at the beginning combined with the dogged detemination that Alonso had in holding up Vettel for the entire race in an inferior car (pace-wise).

Is this a first or have the others previously been down to superior car or just by chance (as this one was). Please help.

Edited by Mandzipop, 28 September 2010 - 21:28.

[Mika Mika]

I don't want to merge this with the Alonso thread as he is not the only driver to have achieved it.

Ok I admit, I'd never heard of it before this weekend which is probably due to the fact that nowadays it is almost impossible to do. A question I do have (for any stat nut), has it ever been done before when the driver who achieves it, is not in the fastest car? Vettel had the faster car, but due to stuffing it up in quali, Alonso's getting lucky when he posted the fastest lap (just before reaching the backmarkers so Vettel couldn't match it), great strategy from Ferrari and the move at the beginning combined with the dogged detemination that Alonso had in holding up Vettel for the entire race in an inferior car (pace-wise).

Is this a first or have the others previously been down to superior car or just by chance (as this one was). Please help.

kimi last year in SPA.

[Mandzipop]

kimi last year in SPA.

Nope, last one was Schumacher in Hungary 2004.

Grand Chelem is Pole (Kimi didn't get that), Win, Fastest lap and never losing the lead, including whilst in the pit-stop.

[Mika Mika]

Nope, last one was Schumacher in Hungary 2004.

Grand Chelem is Pole (Kimi didn't get that), Win, Fastest lap and never losing the lead, including whilst in the pit-stop.

ohhh

[BullHead]

^ Agree with that.

But I'm not sure Mandzi, that the Ferrari isn't the fastest car at this moment. And certainly from circuit to circuit this changes. Ferrari at Singapore IMO demonstrated the new fastest car...

[Mika Mika]

^ Agree with that.

But I'm not sure Mandzi, that the Ferrari isn't the fastest car at this moment. And certainly from circuit to circuit this changes. Ferrari at Singapore IMO demonstrated the new fastest car...

The red bull was clearly faster - Ferrari were fastest in germany and monza this year to date.
McLaren in SPA and Turkey (and china/everywhere in the wet)
Redbull everywhere else.

[BullHead]

On what parameters though? Define the fastest car (at Singapore)

[aditya-now]

Grand Chelem is Pole, Win, Fastest lap and never losing the lead, including whilst in the pit-stop.

Apparently the great Jim Clark did the Grand Chelem eight times, Alberto Ascari five times and Michael Schumacher five times. Would be interesting to know the numbers of Ayrton Senna and other greats....

[aditya-now]

Ferrari at Singapore IMO demonstrated the new fastest car...

As clearly shown by the relative performances of Mark Webber and Felipe Massa....

[BullHead]

As clearly shown by the relative performances of Mark Webber and Felipe Massa....

Don't get... what you mean?

[Massacrator]

On what parameters though? Define the fastest car (at Singapore)

The one able to do a lap in less time if driven by the same driver (or an automated pilot).

[Fastcake]

I thought Button managed to get one last year?

It's an impressive statistic about dominating a race.

[P123]

Apparently the great Jim Clark did the Grand Chelem eight times, Alberto Ascari five times and Michael Schumacher five times. Would be interesting to know the numbers of Ayrton Senna and other greats....

1 Jim Clark 8
2 Alberto Ascari 5
3 Michael Schumacher 5
4 Jackie Stewart 4
5 Ayrton Senna 4
6 Nigel Mansell 4
7 Nelson Piquet 3
8 Juan Manuel Fangio 2
9 Jack Brabham 2
10 Mika Häkkinen 2
11 Mike Hawthorn 1
12 Stirling Moss 1
13 Jo Siffert 1
14 Jacky Ickx 1
15 Clay Regazzoni 1
16 Niki Lauda 1
17 Jacques Laffite 1
18 Gilles Villeneuve 1
19 Gerhard Berger 1
20 Damon Hill 1
21 Fernando Alonso

[BullHead]

The one able to do a lap in less time if driven by the same driver (or an automated pilot).

So Alonso in the Red Bull would have been even faster?

[aditya-now]

I don't want to merge this with the Alonso thread as he is not the only driver to have achieved it.

Ok I admit, I'd never heard of it before this weekend which is probably due to the fact that nowadays it is almost impossible to do.

Grand Chelem is apparently the French expression for Grand Slam, which signifies the wins at Roland Garros, Wimbledon, Flushing Meadows and the Australian Open within the same year. Also to me it is new that a Grand Chelem exists in F1, I was aware only of the pole, victory and fastest lap so far.

Edited by aditya-now, 28 September 2010 - 21:52.

[aditya-now]

1 Jim Clark 8
2 Alberto Ascari 5
3 Michael Schumacher 5
4 Jackie Stewart 4
5 Ayrton Senna 4
6 Nigel Mansell 4
7 Nelson Piquet 3
8 Juan Manuel Fangio 2
9 Jack Brabham 2
10 Mika Häkkinen 2
11 Mike Hawthorn 1
12 Stirling Moss 1
13 Jo Siffert 1
14 Jacky Ickx 1
15 Clay Regazzoni 1
16 Niki Lauda 1
17 Jacques Laffite 1
18 Gilles Villeneuve 1
19 Gerhard Berger 1
20 Damon Hill 1
21 Fernando Alonso

Thanks, P123, excellent job and so fast!!!

[Diablobb81]

Apparently the great Jim Clark did the Grand Chelem eight times, Alberto Ascari five times and Michael Schumacher five times. Would be interesting to know the numbers of Ayrton Senna and other greats....

8 Jim Clark 1962 British Grand Prix, 1963 Dutch Grand Prix, 1963 French Grand Prix, 1963 Mexican Grand Prix, 1964 British Grand Prix,
1965 South African Grand Prix, 1965 French Grand Prix, 1965 German Grand Prix

5 Alberto Ascari 1952 French Grand Prix, 1952 German Grand Prix, 1952 Dutch Grand Prix, 1953 Argentine Grand Prix, 1953 British Grand Prix
5 Michael Schumacher 1994 Monaco Grand Prix, 1994 Canadian Grand Prix, 2002 Spanish Grand Prix, 2004 Australian Grand Prix, 2004 Hungarian Grand Prix

4 Jackie Stewart 1969 French Grand Prix, 1971 Monaco Grand Prix, 1971 French Grand Prix, 1972 United States Grand Prix
4 Ayrton Senna 1985 Portuguese Grand Prix, 1989 Spanish Grand Prix, 1990 Monaco Grand Prix, 1990 Italian Grand Prix
4 Nigel Mansell 1991 British Grand Prix, 1992 South African Grand Prix, 1992 Spanish Grand Prix, 1992 British Grand Prix

3 Nelson Piquet 1980 United States Grand Prix West, 1981 Argentine Grand Prix, 1984 Canadian Grand Prix

2 Juan Manuel Fangio 1950 Monaco Grand Prix, 1956 German Grand Prix
2 Jack Brabham 1960 Belgian Grand Prix, 1966 British Grand Prix
2 Mika Häkkinen 1998 Brazilian Grand Prix, 1998 Monaco Grand Prix

1 Mike Hawthorn 1958 French Grand Prix
Stirling Moss 1959 Portuguese Grand Prix
Jo Siffert 1971 Austrian Grand Prix
Jacky Ickx 1972 German Grand Prix
Clay Regazzoni 1976 United States Grand Prix West
Niki Lauda 1976 Belgian Grand Prix
Jacques Laffite 1979 Brazilian Grand Prix
Gilles Villeneuve 1979 United States Grand Prix West
Gerhard Berger 1987 Australian Grand Prix
Damon Hill 1995 Hungarian Grand Prix
Fernando Alonso 2010 Singapore Grand Prix

http://en.wikipedia...._driver_records

Edited by Diablobb81, 28 September 2010 - 21:55.

[P123]

Thanks, P123, excellent job and so fast!!!

Only copy and pasted from Forix! Here is a list of 'Hat-Tricks' (pole win and fastest lap)

1 Michael Schumacher 22
2 Jim Clark 11
3 Juan Manuel Fangio 9
4 Alain Prost 8
5 Alberto Ascari 7
6 Ayrton Senna 7
7 Nigel Mansell 5
8 Damon Hill 5
9 Mika Häkkinen 5
10 Fernando Alonso 5
11 Stirling Moss 4
12 Jackie Stewart 4
13 Jacky Ickx 4
14 Felipe Massa 4
15 Jack Brabham 3
16 John Surtees 3
17 Niki Lauda 3
18 Nelson Piquet 3
19 Graham Hill 2
20 James Hunt 2
21 Mario Andretti 2
22 Jacques Laffite 2
23 Alan Jones 2
24 Gerhard Berger 2
25 Jacques Villeneuve 2
26 Rubens Barrichello 2
27 Kimi Räikkönen 2
28 Lewis Hamilton 2
29 Nino Farina 1
30 Bill Vukovich 1
31 Mike Hawthorn 1
32 Tony Brooks 1
33 Phil Hill 1
34 Jochen Rindt 1
35 Jo Siffert 1
36 Clay Regazzoni 1
37 Ronnie Peterson 1
38 Gilles Villeneuve 1
39 Carlos Reutemann 1
40 David Coulthard 1
41 Juan Pablo Montoya 1
42 Jenson Button 1
43 Sebastian Vettel 1


Interestingly 2 of Alonso's 5 have come in the last two races.

[Massacrator]

So Alonso in the Red Bull would have been even faster?

Alonso wasn't faster than Vettel in Singapore. He just got the pole and the FL because Vettel ****ed up in Q3 and because he was too concentrated in chasing FA that he didn't leave enough space to set the FL himself.

But to answer your question, I don't know but it seems to me that FA is faster than Vettel overall

[aditya-now]

8 Jim Clark 1962 British Grand Prix, 1963 Dutch Grand Prix, 1963 French Grand Prix, 1963 Mexican Grand Prix, 1964 British Grand Prix,
1965 South African Grand Prix, 1965 French Grand Prix, 1965 German Grand Prix

5 Alberto Ascari 1952 French Grand Prix, 1952 German Grand Prix, 1952 Dutch Grand Prix, 1953 Argentine Grand Prix, 1953 British Grand Prix
5 Michael Schumacher 1994 Monaco Grand Prix, 1994 Canadian Grand Prix, 2002 Spanish Grand Prix, 2004 Australian Grand Prix, 2004 Hungarian Grand Prix

4 Jackie Stewart 1969 French Grand Prix, 1971 Monaco Grand Prix, 1971 French Grand Prix, 1972 United States Grand Prix
4 Ayrton Senna 1985 Portuguese Grand Prix, 1989 Spanish Grand Prix, 1990 Monaco Grand Prix, 1990 Italian Grand Prix
4 Nigel Mansell 1991 British Grand Prix, 1992 South African Grand Prix, 1992 Spanish Grand Prix, 1992 British Grand Prix

3 Nelson Piquet 1980 United States Grand Prix West, 1981 Argentine Grand Prix, 1984 Canadian Grand Prix

2 Juan Manuel Fangio 1950 Monaco Grand Prix, 1956 German Grand Prix
2 Jack Brabham 1960 Belgian Grand Prix, 1966 British Grand Prix
2 Mika Häkkinen 1998 Brazilian Grand Prix, 1998 Monaco Grand Prix

1 Mike Hawthorn 1958 French Grand Prix
United Kingdom Stirling Moss 1959 Portuguese Grand Prix
Switzerland Jo Siffert 1971 Austrian Grand Prix
Belgium Jacky Ickx 1972 German Grand Prix
Switzerland Clay Regazzoni 1976 United States Grand Prix West
Austria Niki Lauda 1976 Belgian Grand Prix
France Jacques Laffite 1979 Brazilian Grand Prix
Canada Gilles Villeneuve 1979 United States Grand Prix West
Austria Gerhard Berger 1987 Australian Grand Prix
United Kingdom Damon Hill 1995 Hungarian Grand Prix
Spain Fernando Alonso 2010 Singapore Grand Prix

http://en.wikipedia...._driver_records

Wow!!!

It is a measure of utterly dominating a race, and obviously it happened much more often in the earlier days than now, since refuelling/forced tyre change are part of a race. That makes a Grand Chelem even much more difficult - it has been achieved nine times since 1994 only.
Also tremendous how utterly Ascari dominated the 1952 season and Jim Clark 1963 and 1965.

[aditya-now]

Only copy and pasted from Forix! Here is a list of 'Hat-Tricks' (pole win and fastest lap)



Interestingly 2 of Alonso's 5 have come in the last two races.

Thanks for the Hat-Tricks as well, P123!

It seems Alonso is finally finding his 2005/2006 form again - very obvious in the last two races, as you say.

[P123]

Wow!!!

It is a measure of utterly dominating a race, and obviously it happened much more often in the earlier days than now, since refuelling/forced tyre change are part of a race. That makes a Grand Chelem even much more difficult - it has been achieved nine times since 1994 only.
Also tremendous how utterly Ascari dominated the 1952 season and Jim Clark 1963 and 1965.

I think Clark's collection of 8 is all the more impressive when you consider just how often unreliability came into play.

[aditya-now]

I think Clark's collection of 8 is all the more impressive when you consider just how often unreliability came into play.

Makes me reconsider those who claim Jim Clark was the best of all times - they were around in Clark´s day, and from that statistic alone it does make some sense. Of course, the dominance of a car plays into is as well, as seen by, e.g., 1990 and 2004.

But then again, those guys were no slouches and it is telling that Alonso just managed his first Grand Chelem.

[Atreiu]

Unless me eyes mistake me, Prost had none. Which is also extremely telling.

[Mandzipop]

Maybe I should have asked when the car had a runaway lead? Had Vettel gotten either pole or manged to overtake Alonso at the start, my guess is that he would have runaway with it until every safety car. If you consider that the RB6 does not like the wake of another car, he had to keep backing off and waiting to see if Alonso made a mistake. I reckon Alonso was holding Vettel up. Vettel had to keep getting out of the wake of the Ferrari, but would then pump in a faster lap.

Just my opinion though. I don't think the Ferrari was anywhere near on par with the RB6. Look at Hungary. The RB6 was far superior to the Ferrari but Alonso kept Vettel at bay.

[Ferrari2183]

History of the chelem

Fernando Alonso
2010 Singapore Grand Prix
Michael Schumacher
1994 Monaco Grand Prix, 1994 Canadian Grand Prix, 2002 Spanish Grand Prix, 2004 Australian Grand Prix, 2004 Hungarian Grand Prix
Mika Häkkinen
1998 Brazilian Grand Prix, 1998 Monaco Grand Prix
Damon Hill
1995 Hungarian Grand Prix
Nigel Mansell
1991 British Grand Prix, 1992 South African Grand Prix, 1992 Spanish Grand Prix, 1992 British Grand Prix
Gerhard Berger
1987 Australian Grand Prix
Alain Prost
1985 Austrian Grand Prix
Ayrton Senna
1985 Portuguese Grand Prix, 1989 Spanish Grand Prix, 1990 Monaco Grand Prix, 1990 Italian Grand Prix
Nelson Piquet
1980 United States Grand Prix West, 1981 Argentine Grand Prix, 1984 Canadian Grand Prix
Gilles Villeneuve
1979 United States Grand Prix West
Niki Lauda
1976 Belgian Grand Prix
Clay Regazzoni
1976 United States Grand Prix West
Jacky Ickx
1972 German Grand Prix
Jo Siffert
1971 Austrian Grand Prix
Jackie Stewart
1969 French Grand Prix, 1971 Monaco Grand Prix, 1971 French Grand Prix, 1972 United States Grand Prix
Jack Brabham
1960 Belgian Grand Prix, 1966 British Grand Prix
Jim Clark
1962 British Grand Prix, 1963 Dutch Grand Prix, 1963 French Grand Prix, 1963 Mexican Grand Prix, 1964 British Grand Prix, 1965 South African Grand Prix, 1965 French Grand Prix, 1965 German Grand Prix
Stirling Moss
1959 Portuguese Grand Prix
Mike Hawthorn
1958 French Grand Prix
Alberto Ascari
1952 French Grand Prix, 1952 German Grand Prix, 1952 Dutch Grand Prix, 1953 Argentine Grand Prix, 1953 British Grand Prix
Juan Manuel Fangio
1950 Monaco Grand Prix, 1956 German Grand Prix

[BullHead]

Maybe I should have asked when the car had a runaway lead? Had Vettel gotten either pole or manged to overtake Alonso at the start, my guess is that he would have runaway with it until every safety car. If you consider that the RB6 does not like the wake of another car, he had to keep backing off and waiting to see if Alonso made a mistake. I reckon Alonso was holding Vettel up. Vettel had to keep getting out of the wake of the Ferrari, but would then pump in a faster lap.

Just my opinion though. I don't think the Ferrari was anywhere near on par with the RB6. Look at Hungary. The RB6 was far superior to the Ferrari but Alonso kept Vettel at bay.

You be right there about Hungary. But I still think Ferrari turned up at Singapore with a better and different machine than before... (I'm scared!)

[Nitropower]

I read somewhere Button passed Alonso while in the pits for a short time but I don't know (I read it, didn't check or remember!).

Btw what a boring thing a Grand Chelem is. Anything but exciting.

[Mandzipop]

I read somewhere Button passed Alonso while in the pits for a short time but I don't know (I read it, didn't check or remember!).

Btw what a boring thing a Grand Chelem is. Anything but exciting.

Button was the leading driver on the track, but he was still behind on track position.

It may sound boring, but if only 21 drivers have achieved it in the whole histort F1, then that is impressive. F1 is still a relatively new sport, but it has been aroud for 60 years. Certain achievements are getting harder and harder to topple. The history of the sport is a backbone. Anyone who achieves something that is rare should be congratu;ated. People like Clark should have their recognitions and talent exposed if they are unusual. What Alonso did with what is to be perceived as an inferior car should be celebrated. It hasn't been done for over 6 years. It is similar to Red Rum winning the Grand National 3 times. The only horse to have ever done it.

[RSNS]

Makes me reconsider those who claim Jim Clark was the best of all times - they were around in Clark´s day, and from that statistic alone it does make some sense. Of course, the dominance of a car plays into is as well, as seen by, e.g., 1990 and 2004.

But then again, those guys were no slouches and it is telling that Alonso just managed his first Grand Chelem.

I agree, but I would like to defend Fangio here: his tactic was to get pole (to discourage rivals), fastest lap (one point) and the win (8 points), but not necessarily to lead all the way (no points in this: Fangio was a very calculating driver). He used to save his car, follow the fastest driver and, at the crucial moment, he would press for the win (he did not use this approach with Moss, and he actually explained why).

Ascari was rather different. Of course he was so dominant he did not have to save anything.

Clark's strategy seems to have been to get pole, jump to the lead and build a discouraging large gap to the second. After that he used to maintain the margin (of course not always, he did have races where he had to catch other fellows). Anyway, when they did not break, the Lotuses were usually faster than the competition.

I am taking nothing away either from Ascari or from Clark. I just want to put the facts into context.

..

[aditya-now]

I agree, but I would like to defend Fangio here: his tactic was to get pole (to discourage rivals), fastest lap (one point) and the win (8 points), but not necessarily to lead all the way (no points in this: Fangio was a very calculating driver). He used to save his car, follow the fastest driver and, at the crucial moment, he would press for the win (he did not use this approach with Moss, and he actually explained why).


I just want to put the facts into context.

..

Thanks for the context, Professor RSNS!

Indeed this not only does put Fangio´s record into context but also the fact that Alain Prost never scored a Grand Chelem, not that he wanted it either...

[iotar]

On what parameters though? Define the fastest car (at Singapore)

The car your favorite driver should have ;) General impression based on qualifying, race pace, driver's mistakes ("I should have been on pole comfortably" or sth like that by Vettel in Singapore), relative performance and subjective rating of drivers(examples: Alonso faster than Vettel, Hamilton faster than Button).

Ferrari were fastest in germany and monza this year to date.
McLaren in Turkey

Disagree:
Hockenheim - slightly behind Red Bull or on par. I don't see much space for arguing here. Ferrari was not in front of Red Bull. Start decided who won.
Monza - Ferrari on par with McLaren. Virtually nothing between Alonso and Button. So it would mean Button was considerably faster than Alonso (as a driver) - unlikely.
[I see that rewriting of history has begun - see also: "Ferrari the best car of the season" thread]
Turkey - pole position and 1-2 during the race (before the crash) - for RB. McLaren was at best on par (better race pace). I thought McLaren was closer to Red Bulls in Canada. Impossible to tell with RB's strategy.

I thought Button managed to get one last year?

It's an impressive statistic about dominating a race.

Well, if fastest lap is considered meaningless than so should be Grand Chelem. First time I hear this term here.

]

Edited by iotar, 28 September 2010 - 23:04.

[Ferrari2183]

Thanks for the context, Professor RSNS!

Indeed this not only does put Fangio´s record into context but also the fact that Alain Prost never scored a Grand Chelem, not that he wanted it either...

Prost has 1 chelem

[Johnrambo]

I see people arguing if Ferrari is the fastest car. It has been that since Germany.

[Massacrator]

I see people arguing if Ferrari is the fastest car. It has been that since Germany.

No it hasn't. Drivers made the difference.

[Mandzipop]

Stat nuts, is this the first time it has been done with a car that did not have a significant gap/advantage to pull off The Grand Chelem?

[MikeTekRacing]

Monza - Ferrari on par with McLaren. Virtually nothing between Alonso and Button. So it would mean Button was considerably faster than Alonso (as a driver) - unlikely.

if they were on par with button leading after T1 he would have kept his lead. Alonso needed 1 free air lap to pass him

and one more thing..on specific day+track a driver+car combination can be significantly better than in a lot other situations. they can get the combo just right
first example...damon hill, arrows, hungaroring 1998

Edited by MikeTekRacing, 28 September 2010 - 23:30.

[MikeTekRacing]

Stat nuts, is this the first time it has been done with a car that did not have a significant gap/advantage to pull off The Grand Chelem?

there was radio transmission to alonso something like "it seems we have the best car by far"
can somebody remember it?

[Ferrari2183]

Stat nuts, is this the first time it has been done with a car that did not have a significant gap/advantage to pull off The Grand Chelem?

Nope. Schumacher and Hill's chelems put a rest to that as the Benetton and the Williams were pretty evenly matched in '94 and '95.

Alonso also, only, scored this chelem because Vettel mirrored his strategy.

[Ferrari2183]

there was radio transmission to alonso something like "it seems we have the best car by far"
can somebody remember it?

It's the first I hear of this... I must watch the race again.

I do know that Alonso said that he managed the engine immediately after the stops. He also said that during the first stint he was 100% and sometimes 95% on it.

[Madras]

Unless me eyes mistake me, Prost had none. Which is also extremely telling.

Prost had no Grand Chelems but he's 4th in the all time hat-tricks list.

Actually somebody who posted after you reckons he got one in 1985. The Chelem relies a bit on luck though in cases like last weekend - who takes the pitstop first - if Alonso had pitted a lap earlier than Vettel he would not have got the Chelem.

Edited by Madras, 28 September 2010 - 23:40.

[Ferrari2183]

Prost had no Grand Chelems but he's 4th in the all time hat-tricks list.

Actually somebody who posted after you reckons he got one in 1985. The Chelem relies a bit on luck though in cases like last weekend - who takes the pitstop first - if Alonso had pitted a lap earlier than Vettel he would not have got the Chelem.

http://www.en.m.wiki...Redirected=true

Edited by Ferrari2183, 29 September 2010 - 00:00.

[JSDSKI]

The speed and performance differentials between cars is much, much, less in the current era. Clarks' Lotus 25 (certainly the first F1 monocoque) was probably a half to one seconds per lap faster than its competition in its day. Revolutionary and jaw droppingly fast when first raced. Completely dominated and changed F1 forever. Clark's style and technique was perfectly matched to the delicate Loti of those days.

That's why there are fewer and fewer Slams and Hat Tricks as we move to this era. Engineering and quality is orders of magnitude better, time differentials are measured in hundredths and thousands of seconds and cars just don't fail.

Not taking anything away from Clark - he would be a multiple WDC in any era. Absolutely stunning speed - never looked in a hurry.

Prost was more like Fangio - a stalker.

[Atreiu]

Stat nuts, is this the first time it has been done with a car that did not have a significant gap/advantage to pull off The Grand Chelem?

Absolutely not.
Take a look at Senna's and Piquet's Chelems for starters; or Berger's.


Too bad Kimi didn't go for the fastest lap at Barcelona or Monaco 2005.

edit: so Prost did get one afterall.

Edited by Atreiu, 29 September 2010 - 00:23.

[juicy sushi]

Unless me eyes mistake me, Prost had none. Which is also extremely telling.

And Fangio only has two. Perhaps this is a very good measure of a driver's attitude towards racing. There are those who push constantly, and those who (to paraphrase) "drive as slow as possible and still win". Certainly in the early days of racing at least, mechanical sympathy (and correctly managing pace) would come into play with stats like these...

[pingu666]

its pretty hard and does require luck in this era, as you either have to be a pitstop up the road from everyone else, or not loose the lead during the pitstop phase. also i dont think the rb6 was much quicker than the ferrari in singapore

[Panktej]

Nope, last one was Schumacher in Hungary 2004.

Grand Chelem is Pole (Kimi didn't get that), Win, Fastest lap and never losing the lead, including whilst in the pit-stop.

can we also add fastest pit stop too to the list?

[vivafroilan!]

"Canada Gilles Villeneuve 1979 United States Grand Prix West" -- the only GP I've been to!

Absolutely not.
Take a look at Senna's and Piquet's Chelems for starters; or Berger's.

Good examples. I wonder about Siffert's too.

[RSNS]

I wonder about Siffert's too.

Siffert was having a very good year in F1. He had many problems the year before. He partnered Amon at March and got terrible cars, and Rodriguez at Porsche, who gave him doubts whether he, Siffert, was the best driver of Sport-Prototypes. In 71, Rodriguez was, for the first time ever, beating him in Sport-Prototypes (not always overdriving him, but winning, and causing Siffert very severe stress because of his ruthlessness). Siffert went to BRM to challenge Rodriguez, who was number 1. Even so, Siffert put some very good displays (Monaco, for instance), and then Rodriguez died. Siffert became number 1 at BRM and the team began systematically to compete for second place behind the dominating Stewart. At Zeltweg, Siffert has a perfect weekend. He liked the circuit, the car suited it, and even if he developed a slow puncture towards the end, he managed to win. It was a very impressive drive, he totally dominated. Then he died, too, while fighting for the lead in a damaged car.

[PayasYouRace]

Alain Prost
1985 Austrian Grand Prix

No he didn't. Niki Lauda led laps in the middle of the race before his engine failed.

http://forix.autospo...&...850010&c=11

Edited by PayasYouRace, 29 September 2010 - 11:57.