157 replies to this topic

[Tsarwash]

Many people seem to think that Luca di Montezemolo will force Massa out of Ferrari next year if he doesn't up his game in the last three races and help Alonso to the title. If this is the case, then who shall replace him. If it happens, I think that there are three obstacles for any driver wanting to replace him.

1. Not good enough. Many drivers of course have this obstacle, for instance Senna.
2. Objections from Alonso. Fred wouldn't accept Lewis of course as his new teammate, and probably not Trulli either.
3. Driver objections to possible role as supporting driver. For instance Button has said that he would never join a team where his role was to ensure his teammate wins as often as possible.

So, if it happens which drivers are unhappy enough in their current team, and don't have these hurdles to cross. I think that Ferrari might have got themselves into a bit if a mess, as I don't think that many people would qualify. I think that Heidfeld or Glock are possibilities and maybe Webber as a long shot.

[Villes Gilleneuve]

Luca Badoer needs a second chance.

[Atreiu]

Luca Badoer needs a second chance.

LMAO

[JPW]

1. Not good enough. Many drivers of course have this obstacle, for instance Senna.
2. Objections from Alonso. Fred wouldn't accept Lewis of course as his new teammate, and probably not Trulli either.
3. Driver objections to possible role as supporting driver. For instance Button has said that he would never join a team where his role was to ensure his teammate wins as often as possible.

So, if it happens which drivers are unhappy enough in their current team, and don't have these hurdles to cross. I think that Ferrari might have got themselves into a bit if a mess, as I don't think that many people would qualify. I think that Heidfeld or Glock are possibilities and maybe Webber as a long shot.

Hmm interesting but in the unlikely situation that Massa is axed your points are valid.

1. Yes there are a bunch of rookies, has-beens and just-not-good-enoughs in several teams that donot qualify.

2. Sure Lewis (any British driver for that matter), Trulli, Webber, Barrichello (although he's more cat. 1) and big Shumi, will be vetoed.

3. Several drivers, although many will step over their objections just because it's Ferrari. But I can't see Kubica or Vettel join as soon as 2011.

Possibilities I'd say Hulkenberg (hello Willi Weber) or maybe Sutil and even Rosberg would be a distinct possibility depending on how he thinks 2011 will unravel at Mercedes.

So can't see any problems for Ferrari if Massa would leave, the almighty lure of the prancing horse will provide as it always has.

[Watkins74]

Nelson Piquet Jr. - proven track record of sacrificing for the team.

[Massacrator]

Luca Badoer needs a second chance.

Him and Fisichella are actually the dream team we're looking for.

[hotstickyslick]

Luca Badoer needs a third chance.

Fixed.

[Sakae]

Many people seem to think that Luca di Montezemolo will force Massa out of Ferrari next year if he doesn't up his game in the last three races and help Alonso to the title. If this is the case, then who shall replace him. If it happens, I think that there are three obstacles for any driver wanting to replace him.

1. Not good enough. Many drivers of course have this obstacle, for instance Senna.
2. Objections from Alonso. Fred wouldn't accept Lewis of course as his new teammate, and probably not Trulli either.
3. Driver objections to possible role as supporting driver. For instance Button has said that he would never join a team where his role was to ensure his teammate wins as often as possible.

So, if it happens which drivers are unhappy enough in their current team, and don't have these hurdles to cross. I think that Ferrari might have got themselves into a bit if a mess, as I don't think that many people would qualify. I think that Heidfeld or Glock are possibilities and maybe Webber as a long shot.

Massa is leaving? Hurry up to update Ferrari management about it.

[Ferrari2183]

Fixed.

That's correct.

[DrF]

Who on Earth would want to replace Massa, knowing full well what their role will be.

Other than Kimi ;)

[JackTorrance]

2. Objections from Alonso. Fred wouldn't accept Lewis of course as his new teammate

Why not? Alonso had Lewis covered. Hell, Lewis could only shine with Alonsos setups. The minute he was cut off Alonsos setups he fell down like a stone.

I seriously doubt Alonso has any say in a new teammate. Or that he would object to anyone.

[2ms]

I've been saying ever since Germany can't imagine Massa tolerating being in Ferrari past this season. I see him moving to Red Bull or MGP (the latter looking less likely now that Schumacher getting better).

Webber leaving Red Bull for Ferrari.

Massa or Kimi replacing Webber at Red Bull.

(Massa would be good at Renault since he has similar driving style to Kubica, but Renault doesn't have the money)

[MikeTekRacing]

Why not? Alonso had Lewis covered.

yeap, alonso was covering the rookie's behind pretty well

[2ms]

Who on Earth would want to replace Massa, knowing full well what their role will be.

Other than Kimi ;)

Why on earth would Kimi want to go to Ferrari? They don't treat their drivers equally and Alonso is Santander's son.

[PayasYouRace]

Fixed.

Well if he meant at Ferrari, it would be a 2nd chance but overall Badoer has already had 4 chances at F1. '93, '95/96, '99 and '09

Edited by PayasYouRace, 13 October 2010 - 20:32.

[Crafty]

yeap, alonso was covering the rookie's behind pretty well

Anyone who is stupid enough to believe they will get a fair chance...

[Don_Humpador]

If Ferrari want a reliable backup who won't quite ever challenge Alonso, they'd do well to have a look at Heidfeld.

Although I expect them to go for someone younger. Not a rookie, but someone they can build.. ala Massa. Oh, right. A successful Massa then.

[TheNewStig]

I've been saying ever since Germany can't imagine Massa tolerating being in Ferrari past this season. I see him moving to Red Bull or MGP (the latter looking less likely now that Schumacher getting better).

Webber leaving Red Bull for Ferrari.

Massa or Kimi replacing Webber at Red Bull.

(Massa would be good at Renault since he has similar driving style to Kubica, but Renault doesn't have the money)

Agree,webber and alonso as 1 and 2 next year.Vettel and Kimi as 3 and 4.

[Ferrari2183]

There is just one problem with this thread...

Massa is going nowhere!

[beckenlima]

Who will replace Massa ?

Hamilton?

[Tolyngee]

Him and Fisichella are actually the dream team we're looking for.

In the spirit of your nick... wouldn't such a move be a Ferrarocalypse?

(or Ferraripocalypse, couldn't decide...)

It would be the end of Ferrari ever being at the front...

[Curt000]

Lewis will probably end up in a ferrari one day. Alonso would cry though. ..... But for a realistic driver I'd say kubica.

[Les]

Its another Lewis v Alonso thread

In terms of Massa I think they should keep him for next year. Just say theoretically he does leave then the only options I could see is a swap with Kubica at Renault or giving Bianchi a chance. Can't see either although its the crazy world of F1 so who knows!

Edited by Les, 13 October 2010 - 21:41.

[chrisblades85]

There is just one problem with this thread...

Massa is going nowhere!

That's what I think.

[Lotusseven]

There is just one problem with this thread...

Massa is going nowhere!

Correct, I don´t think he have any options if he leaves Ferrari.
Who will replace him ? Everybody will as long they want to get a chance to race in F1 !
I think Ferrari chose some of thier own young drivers. Problems solved.

[Lights]

Why would Luca try and push out Massa. He never did so with Rubens and they're kinda in the same position now.

Although for Massa, if he wants to keep some dignity in F1, he should probably leave Ferrari.

Myself, I value Rubens way higher these years than 6 years ago.

Edited by Lights, 13 October 2010 - 21:58.

[Dunder]

Why would Luca try and push out Massa. He never did so with Rubens and they're kinda in the same position now.

Although for Massa, if he wants to keep some dignity in F1, he should probably leave Ferrari.

Myself, I value Rubens way higher these years than 6 years ago.

Me too but us valuing him will not pay for a private jet!
LdMs public statement last week indicates to me that Massa has been quite vocal in private.

[Lights]

Me too but us valuing him will not pay for a private jet!
LdMs public statement last week indicates to me that Massa has been quite vocal in private.

It's no surprise he's been vocal, he's not a quiet boy that sits in the corner. South-American temperament . After proving his worth against Raikkonen, he obviously didn't expect this situation with Alonso. In some way I don't like it for him, I thought he was doing very well before his accident. And this year he has still been quick from time to time, but over a season, he's never going to beat Alonso. Nobody beats Alonso in Alonso's team over a season. And it didn't take Alonso long to make it his team...

[Tenmantaylor]

Who does Luca think they should have? The fact is, Massa is quick enough to match Alonso but he needs encouragement and support, not the rug pulled from under his feet like they did in Germany.

Alonso would have 7 less points but I'm sure a motivated Massa having won in Germany would have subsequently taken alot more than 7 points away from Alonso's key rivals in the races between then and now!

Ferrari stinks, Felipe. Get out of there.

[hotstickyslick]

Who does Luca think they should have? The fact is, Massa is quick enough to match Alonso but he needs encouragement and support, not the rug pulled from under his feet like they did in Germany.

Alonso would have 7 less points but I'm sure a motivated Massa having won in Germany would have subsequently taken alot more than 7 points away from Alonso's key rivals in the races between then and now!

Ferrari stinks, Felipe. Get out of there.

Who are you trying to convince?

[JackTorrance]

Who does Luca think they should have? The fact is, Massa is quick enough to match Alonso but he needs encouragement and support, not the rug pulled from under his feet like they did in Germany.

Alonso would have 7 less points but I'm sure a motivated Massa having won in Germany would have subsequently taken alot more than 7 points away from Alonso's key rivals in the races between then and now!

Ferrari stinks, Felipe. Get out of there.

Yeah, we saw how quick felipe was at melbourne, malaysia and hockenheim, didnt we.

[Tenmantaylor]

Who are you trying to convince?

Do you honestly think Massa has been the same driver since Germany? He was a broken man on that podium and hasn't bounced back one iota. In fact he's getting worse and since LdM's latest public derision of the guy Massa had one of his worst ever weekends for Ferrari. This guy beat MS and Raikkonen at their peaks but now just looks slow and uninspired. Felipe, baby, time to move over on if you want to resurrect your self respect.

[r4mses]

Nelson Piquet Jr. - proven track record of sacrificing for the team.

On a serious note: I think anyone who's not driving a (possibly) race winning care right now would join Ferrari to play second fiddle there - the young(er) guys in particular: Sutil, Buemi, Hülkenberg, Glock, Kobayashi, Alguersuari... and the more experienced/'older' guys who never had the chance to drive a race winning car (over a longer period of time) Kubica, Heidfeld, Kovalainen, Klien.

Long story short: Everyone bar Button, Hamilton, Webber, Vettel (right now!) and MSC. Though I bet the latter might consider going back if Ross was still there and all that Mercedes-stuff wouldnt have happened.

Edited by r4mses, 13 October 2010 - 22:34.

[Dunder]

Personally, I think Massa will still be there next year but if he is not then Heidfeld would be the driver Ferrari approach first.

[undersquare]

Rob Smedley isn't looking very happy at Ferrari these days either...

[halifaxf1fan]

Who does Luca think they should have? The fact is, Massa is quick enough to match Alonso but he needs encouragement and support, not the rug pulled from under his feet like they did in Germany.

Alonso would have 7 less points but I'm sure a motivated Massa having won in Germany would have subsequently taken alot more than 7 points away from Alonso's key rivals in the races between then and now!

Ferrari stinks, Felipe. Get out of there.

Massa should have figured it out in China, no need to be surprised by the events of Germany. Alonso mugged Massa at the pit entrance in China and nobody at Ferrari criticized Alonso at all. Massa even said afterwards that at that moment when Alonso pulled along side that he thought of the team and kept out of Alonso's way, perfect #2 material if you ask me.

If Kubica is not available for Ferrari next season then Massa's job may be preserved.

Edited by halifaxf1fan, 13 October 2010 - 22:59.

[korzeniow]

Robert Kubica will replace Massa, but not anytime soon

[chrisblades85]

Personally, I think Massa will still be there next year but if he is not then Heidfeld would be the driver Ferrari approach first.

As a test driver. You mean?

[Captain Tightpants]

I honestly don't think Kubica would want to go to Ferrari. They might give him a shot at the title, but the price is submission to the team's will. It wouldn't surprise me if Ferrari decided to (openly) revert back to the Age of Schumacher and pick a team-mate for Alonso who can regularly bank points without challenging him. I think Nico Hulkenberg would be the kind of driver that they'd go in for. I know I'm very critical of Ferrari, but if there is one thing they're good at, it's taking a very green driver and hammering him into a much more focused person. When Massa first joined Formula 1, he was very impetuous, with the number on his car usually reflecting the number of laps he'd make it before he'd spin. Nobody really expected him to go far, but he joined Ferrari as their test driver, spent a year on the sidelines and came back a much more mature person. True, test drivers have been abolished because of the ban on in-season testing, but I think Hulkenberg has that same raw, unchanneled potential as Massa did. He's simply far too angry; great at qualifying, but his races leave a lot to be desired. In Belgium, he kept over-stepping himself into the chicane. In Monza, he was all over the place and you got the sense that Webber didn't want to get too close lest Hulkenberg KO him. In Singapore, he was cutting the chicane (again) before bumping Petrov off the track. And whilst his race lasted all of ten seconds in Japan, it was easy to see that he'd once again gotten the worst start off the line. He has the speed, but his season has been plagued with errors - spinning in Bahrain, attempting a pass on Sutil in Canada that was never going to stick and then speeding in the pit lane to get his wing replaced. But I think Ferrari could refine him a little, if they're willing to make the effort.

[Dunder]

As a test driver. You mean?

No. He is a proven driver with great consistency. He has stood up well when paired with Kubica and with Raikkonen.
He possibly lacks that killer instinct but that is probably not a bad thing for Ferrari when looking for a teammate for Alonso.

Who do you think is better that might be available?

Edited by Dunder, 13 October 2010 - 23:04.

[hotstickyslick]

Do you honestly think Massa has been the same driver since Germany? He was a broken man on that podium and hasn't bounced back one iota. In fact he's getting worse and since LdM's latest public derision of the guy Massa had one of his worst ever weekends for Ferrari. This guy beat MS and Raikkonen at their peaks but now just looks slow and uninspired. Felipe, baby, time to move over on if you want to resurrect your self respect.

He is the same driver. He did not beat MS. He is the same driver that spun five times at Silverstone, the same driver who still blames Piquet Jr. for his own failure to win the title in 2008.

[Tenmantaylor]

He is the same driver. He did not beat MS. He is the same driver that spun five times at Silverstone, the same driver who still blames Piquet Jr. for his own failure to win the title in 2008.

Is that you, Luca? Turkey 2006.

I'm not a Massa fan but I hate seeing good guys getting **** on. I laughed along at Webber's crashing antics with the best of em in Melbourne but since RB started plotting against Mark I'm his No.1 fan. It's all about the underdogs.

Edited by Tenmantaylor, 13 October 2010 - 23:15.

[Enzoluis]

I honestly don't think Kubica would want to go to Ferrari. They might give him a shot at the title, but the price is submission to the team's will. It wouldn't surprise me if Ferrari decided to (openly) revert back to the Age of Schumacher and pick a team-mate for Alonso who can regularly bank points without challenging him. I think Nico Hulkenberg would be the kind of driver that they'd go in for. I know I'm very critical of Ferrari, but if there is one thing they're good at, it's taking a very green driver and hammering him into a much more focused person. When Massa first joined Formula 1, he was very impetuous, with the number on his car usually reflecting the number of laps he'd make it before he'd spin. Nobody really expected him to go far, but he joined Ferrari as their test driver, spent a year on the sidelines and came back a much more mature person. True, test drivers have been abolished because of the ban on in-season testing, but I think Hulkenberg has that same raw, unchanneled potential as Massa did. He's simply far too angry; great at qualifying, but his races leave a lot to be desired. In Belgium, he kept over-stepping himself into the chicane. In Monza, he was all over the place and you got the sense that Webber didn't want to get too close lest Hulkenberg KO him. In Singapore, he was cutting the chicane (again) before bumping Petrov off the track. And whilst his race lasted all of ten seconds in Japan, it was easy to see that he'd once again gotten the worst start off the line. He has the speed, but his season has been plagued with errors - spinning in Bahrain, attempting a pass on Sutil in Canada that was never going to stick and then speeding in the pit lane to get his wing replaced. But I think Ferrari could refine him a little, if they're willing to make the effort.

Third in the WCC upsets many Ferrari fans (me included) With this level of parity between top teams, that seems to stay until the frozen engine rule is place, is impossible to win the WCC a la Schumacher (one driver winning 6-7 races per championship, a second driver collecting few points). More sooner than later we will see Ferrari with two top drivers.

[hotstickyslick]

Is that you, Luca? Turkey 2006.

I'm not a Massa fan but I hate seeing good guys getting **** on. I laughed along at Webber's crashing antics with the best of em in Melbourne but since RB started plotting against Mark I'm his No.1 fan. It's all about the underdogs.

No, I'm one of Luca's haters actually. As for Turkey that year... all I remember was Schumacher being hindered by a safety car and being the quickest man in the race by far.


In Ferrari's case Massa put himself in the underdog position - no one else can be blamed. It would've been a good start for him if he didn't let Alonso totally destroy him in Bahrain

Edited by hotstickyslick, 13 October 2010 - 23:27.

[JackTorrance]

I honestly don't think Kubica would want to go to Ferrari. They might give him a shot at the title, but the price is submission to the team's will. It wouldn't surprise me if Ferrari decided to (openly) revert back to the Age of Schumacher and pick a team-mate for Alonso who can regularly bank points without challenging him. I think Nico Hulkenberg would be the kind of driver that they'd go in for. I know I'm very critical of Ferrari, but if there is one thing they're good at, it's taking a very green driver and hammering him into a much more focused person. When Massa first joined Formula 1, he was very impetuous, with the number on his car usually reflecting the number of laps he'd make it before he'd spin. Nobody really expected him to go far, but he joined Ferrari as their test driver, spent a year on the sidelines and came back a much more mature person. True, test drivers have been abolished because of the ban on in-season testing, but I think Hulkenberg has that same raw, unchanneled potential as Massa did. He's simply far too angry; great at qualifying, but his races leave a lot to be desired. In Belgium, he kept over-stepping himself into the chicane. In Monza, he was all over the place and you got the sense that Webber didn't want to get too close lest Hulkenberg KO him. In Singapore, he was cutting the chicane (again) before bumping Petrov off the track. And whilst his race lasted all of ten seconds in Japan, it was easy to see that he'd once again gotten the worst start off the line. He has the speed, but his season has been plagued with errors - spinning in Bahrain, attempting a pass on Sutil in Canada that was never going to stick and then speeding in the pit lane to get his wing replaced. But I think Ferrari could refine him a little, if they're willing to make the effort.

What a load of of nonsense and made up fantasy facts.

-Ferrari have been pretty equal to both Kimi and Massa.

- Theyve been pretty equal to Alonso and Massa too, up untill Germany at least. Massa was the one who got first taste of the F10, and did not order him to move over at melbourne and malaysia when any other team wouldv intervened without any hesitation.

So please have some respect and sense of reality towards Ferrari and Alonso. This thread is not about the way Ferrari is dealing with Massa, but about who should replace the under performing Brasilian.

[Supersleeper]

Massa is going nowhere!

I wouldn't be so sure - he's only there because Webber turned Ferrari down.

Webber loses WDC and Massa continues to perform poorly.

Massa - gone.
Webber - Ferrari
Kimi - Red Bull

Ferrari need 2 drivers scoring points - not 1.

[Captain Tightpants]

Third in the WCC upsets many Ferrari fans (me included)

Well, Ferrari fans are just going to have to get used to it. The days of the Ferrari-Williams/McLaren/Renault Cold War where it is always a race between two teams is over. Red Bull and McLaren are also up front, and it wouldn't suprise me if Renault and/or Mercedes can bounce back in 2011. Even with two top drivers, there is still a possibility that Ferrari will be finishing third or lower in the WCC.

Though if you ask me, they need a couple of seasons at the back given the way they've been treating the new teams this year.

What a load of of nonsense and made up fantasy facts.

-Ferrari have been pretty equal to both Kimi and Massa.

- Theyve been pretty equal to Alonso and Massa too, up untill Germany at least. Massa was the one who got first taste of the F10, and did not order him to move over at melbourne and malaysia when any other team wouldv intervened without any hesitation.

So please have some respect and sense of reality towards Ferrari and Alonso. This thread is not about the way Ferrari is dealing with Massa, but about who should replace the under performing Brasilian.

Where the hell did you get all of that from? Not once did I mention the way Ferrari are treating Massa, except to say that they brought him into the sport and made him the driver he is (and the way they treat him could force them to pick up another driver because Massa could well leave the team off his own bat). I'm saying that if Ferrari get rid of Massa, they could well decide to set Alonso up as their primary driver and have someone like Hulkenberg in a supporting role. Hulkenberg would still score points and would be fast enough to rise to the occasion like Eddie Irvine did in 1999 if it was called for, but he would first and foremost be supporting Alonso. Look at Red Bull's 2009 campaign - the reason why Button wlked away with it despite Red Bull having a better car was because Vettel and Webber were too busy taking points out of one another to mount an attack. If Ferrari set Alonso up as their number one driver and had Hulkenberg supporting, they'll have an easier time of picking up World Championships, provided Hulkenberg is fast enough.

And why should I show respect for Ferrari when they don't respect the other teams or even the racing? Between their abuse of the new teams and their manipulation of race results, I haven't seen anything from them this year to make me want to respect them.

Edited by Captain Tightpants, 14 October 2010 - 02:18.

[slideways]

I can't see any of the remotely top teams picking up Massa if Ferrari do cut him.

[cheapracer]

Nelson Piquet Jr. - proven track record of sacrificing for the team.

And faster than Hamilton.

[metz]

There is just one problem with this thread...

Yes. It's another Kubica thread in disguise.