155 replies to this topic

[Pep]

Interesting final race...

The complicated part for Vettel is that if Alonso at some point is out of the race (he blows up his engine), he would be champion winning the race. So he must stick to 1st position.

But if Alonso is still 3rd in the race, I think Vettel would let Webber pass him at the last lap.

Edited by Pep, 07 November 2010 - 18:21.

[Hole]

Not likely. Not because RBR has integrity (which they don't have as the front wing or flexy wing proves). But because they would do nothing to harm Vettel's loved arse.

[alg7_munif]

Add another poll, Alonso is out early in the race. Will they fight till the end?

[pRy]

Horner just told BBC that if the positions are like that on the final lap, they'll switch the positions.

But they'll need to wait until the last moment really to avoid Alonso suffering an engine failure and screwing Vettel.

[iotar]

I don't care but it's not going to happen.

[engel]

No need for a team order ... Vettel will know ahead of time, if you 're not winning the Championship with say 5 laps to go let Webber through, end of drama.

[sawyer_si]

Horner just told BBC that if the positions are like that on the final lap, they'll switch the positions.

But they'll need to wait until the last moment really to avoid Alonso suffering an engine failure and screwing Vettel.

Surely they can't do that, not after all that was said by Horner after the German GP?

[Pep]

Horner just told BBC that if the positions are like that on the final lap, they'll switch the positions.

But they'll need to wait until the last moment really to avoid Alonso suffering an engine failure and screwing Vettel.

Then probably Vettel would try to show everybody that he is surrending position intentionally.

It would be another Austria 2002, maybe a swap in the final line?

[engel]

Surely they can't do that, not after all that was said by Horner after the German GP?

Sure they can, if Alonso is running at anything above 5th place in AD then Vettel is mathematically out of the Championship

[Cenotaph]

it would be sweet to see webber win the championship on team orders, now that i think about it. the ferrari fans ttrying to act smart now would have a curious reaction, certainly. And Massa would prolly laugh his ass off

[pRy]

Surely they can't do that, not after all that was said by Horner after the German GP?

If it's 1. VET 2. WEB 3. ALO, Alonso is champion.

If it's 1. WEB 2. VET. 3. ALO, Webber is champion.

So it makes sense for them to switch but they will need to leave it till the very last moment... as to ask Vettel to move over, only for Alonso to DNF would be a huge crime as it would deny Vettel the title.

[sawyer_si]

Bolting a bigger engine would also make a lot of sense, but it is against the rules.

Sure they can, if Alonso is running at anything above 5th place in AD then Vettel is mathematically out of the Championship

Who cares? Team orders are not allowed and I am yet to see a rule that says "Team orders are OK if one driver is out of the championship". Surely they will be punished if they swap positions so obviously in the last lap, especially after all that was said over Ferrari this year.

Edited by sawyer_si, 07 November 2010 - 18:41.

[chapilinux]

Surely they can't do that, not after all that was said by Horner after the German GP?

Of course they can, and they will do.

That's what I call hypocrisy, but hypocrisy wins championships.

[krapmeister]

Bolting a bigger engine would also make a lot of sense, but it is against the rules.

Who cares? Team orders are not allowed and I am yet to see a rule that says "Team orders are OK if one driver is out of the championship". Surely they will be punished if they swap positions so obviously in the last lap, especially after all that was said over Ferrari this year.

$100000 is cheap for a WDC though - pretty sure Webber would be happy to pay it himself...

[RiDE]

Bolting a bigger engine would also make a lot of sense, but it is against the rules.



Who cares? Team orders are not allowed and I am yet to see a rule that says "Team orders are OK if one driver is out of the championship". Surely they will be punished if they swap positions so obviously in the last lap, especially after all that was said over Ferrari this year.

They'll get a $100k fine which IMO is worth it to be WDC.

I would be suprised though if they do make vettel pull over since they've been crowing all along about how Ferrari's team orders are the cause of global warming.

[Captain Tightpants]

I think the decision of whether or not to let Webber through would have nothing to do with Red Bull and everything to do with Sebastian Vettel.

[sawyer_si]

FIA had said that 100.000$ is not a standard, so they could get even bigger penalty.

I mean, i fully expect them to swap positions and it would be fullish not to do so, but they've dug that hole to themselves and should now do what they were talking about earlier this year.

[Ellios]

Horner just told BBC that if the positions are like that on the final lap, they'll switch the positions.

But they'll need to wait until the last moment really to avoid Alonso suffering an engine failure and screwing Vettel.

yeah exactly he made it very clear - it's for the team first and foremost

[Donka]

I question will they go for the moral victory if Vettel's finishing position to Alonso (-) 7 team orders points = Vettel should have won. Stir up a poop storm with the fans.

[Cenotaph]

FIA had said that 100.000$ is not a standard, so they could get even bigger penalty.

I mean, i fully expect them to swap positions and it would be fullish not to do so, but they've dug that hole to themselves and should now do what they were talking about earlier this year.

No, FIA dug the hole. if rbr applies team orders its on Todt and co. if alonso was punished properly he would be behind Vettel now and we could look forward to a nice fight between teammates for the WDC...

[sawyer_si]

I would actually laugh my ass off if Alonso would be 20-30s behind and decided to pull over after they had crossed the line in swapped positions. I mean he wouldn't loose anything but Vettel would probably decide to kill someone on the pitwall

[alg7_munif]

There will be no team order, they will just tell Vettel that Webber is faster than him and Vettel will move over on his freewill

[velgajski1]

Its simple. They'll swap it in the last lap if it goes to that.

[Sausage]

Of course.

[shaggy]

I would actually laugh my ass off if Alonso would be 20-30s behind and decided to pull over after they had crossed the line in swapped positions. I mean he wouldn't loose anything but Vettel would probably decide to kill someone on the pitwall

Exactly just what I was about to write.
If I were Alonso, and RB swapped positions, I would wait until the end and slow down to finish 4th.

[alg7_munif]

I would actually laugh my ass off if Alonso would be 20-30s behind and decided to pull over after they had crossed the line in swapped positions. I mean he wouldn't loose anything but Vettel would probably decide to kill someone on the pitwall

Imagine that Ferrari planned this from the beginning in case that RBR made the switch using the "Webber is faster that you" message.

[chapilinux]

Exactly just what I was about to write.
If I were Alonso, and RB swapped positions, I would wait until the end and slow down to finish 4th.

I can't get the point. What is the difference?

[sawyer_si]

I can't get the point. What is the difference?

To screw with Red Bull? Then possibly Vettel says that it was team order, they both get disqualified and Alonso takes the title

Edited by sawyer_si, 07 November 2010 - 19:05.

[chapilinux]

To screw with Red Bull?

Still

[engel]

I can't get the point. What is the difference?

no difference whatsoever .. just bad math

5th is the actual sweetspot, and the implication is that if Vettel lets Webber through to win the race and Alonso finishes 5th then Vettel will go emo cause Alonso finishing 5th would have been enough for Vettel to win the championship

[Yolandy]

Then probably Vettel would try to show everybody that he is surrending position intentionally.

It would be another Austria 2002, maybe a swap in the final line?

And another Germany 2010

[Donka]

no difference whatsoever .. just bad math

5th is the actual sweetspot, and the implication is that if Vettel lets Webber through to win the race and Alonso finishes 5th then Vettel will go emo cause Alonso finishing 5th would have been enough for Vettel to win the championship

Except Vettel would know it was a direct manipulation by Alonso/Ferrari and he really wouldn't have won. However if Zo has a spontaneous failure around the last truns I imagine he would be pissed.

Not that I wish this on Red Bull, but with their luck this year I can see all this talk being a non-issue next weekend. With Ferrari flat out beating them, one of them crashing in qualy or during the race, another failure, something.

[Cenotaph]

why would vettel cry about the title loss if alonso does it on purpose?

[tkulla]

Team order in this scenario: "Mark, we need you to slow down and crash into Fernando."

[pRy]

Asked whether he expected Vettel to move aside for him in Abu Dhabi, Webber said: "Depends how it is on the last lap."

So Webber and Horner singing from the same sheet.. if if it's 1. Vettel 2. Webber 3. Alonso on the final lap, Vettel moves over.

Edited by pRy, 07 November 2010 - 19:27.

[sawyer_si]

why would vettel cry about the title loss if alonso does it on purpose?

Alonso can always say that his engine failed or something...

[dau]

Please. More threads.

[Ellios]

Then probably Vettel would try to show everybody that he is surrending position intentionally.

It would be another Austria 2002, maybe a swap in the final line? smile.gif

And another Germany 2010

the difference being, everyone knows Red Bull will swap in the last race to win the championship - even expecting it to happen, whereas Austria 2002 and Germany 2010 was too early in the season, and in someways deprived (cheated even) the viewers out of an honest race.

the last race of the season, nobody would expect Red Bull as a team to not to swap their drivers and loose the WDC to Alonso

[jeze]

But if they do it obvious on the final lap - with the team boss even telling what they will do beforehand - then they COULD actually be penalised 7

Imagine that

[Dunder]

It is not even a question. Vettel will move over and he would do so without having to be instructed to.

[WhiteBlue]

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/88061

There will not be such a team order. The only question is: Will Vettel decide for Webber or for Alonso. I say it will depend of the attitude Webber shows between now and the race.

[Lights]

He'll win the race. It's what the bosses want, right?

[WhiteBlue]

So Webber and Horner singing from the same sheet.. if if it's 1. Vettel 2. Webber 3. Alonso on the final lap, Vettel moves over.

Don't be so sure of that! Webber could be screwing it up by more silly talk.

[Mclaren4ever]

Vettel should go slowly right after the last corner and roll over the finish line at 50 mph while showing Webbo the middle finger after he passed the flag

[DarthWillie]

greatest situation ever would be 1Vet 2Web 3Alo, then Vettel letting Webber pass and blow up his engine next lap, I would probably pie myself laughing

[keeppushingurep1]

If they change positions alo Should let 2 drivers trough

[velgajski1]

If they change positions alo Should let 2 drivers trough

And what does he gain with it?

If something like this happens Alonso/Ferrari would probably prefer Webber to win so that they can point out that RBR also used team orders.

[keeppushingurep1]

And what does he gain with it?

If something like this happens Alonso/Ferrari would probably prefer Webber to win so that they can point out that RBR also used team orders.

Vet would go on full atack and alo could gain the position back

Edited by keeppushingurep1, 07 November 2010 - 22:28.

[juandiego]

No need for a team order ... Vettel will know ahead of time, if you 're not winning the Championship with say 5 laps to go let Webber through, end of drama.

Ok, but then, what's the sportsmanlike difference between to hand points to team mates by means of a team order via radio or to do it by personal election if both ways are equally unfair towards other title contenders?

[scheivlak]

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/88061

There will not be such a team order. The only question is: Will Vettel decide for Webber or for Alonso. I say it will depend of the attitude Webber shows between now and the race.

Vettel will go all out to show he is really the fastest guy and if Webber is 2nd behind him he will show in a very demonstrating way (remember Malaysia 1999 etc) that he's a good boy and let Webber win - just to show that Mark could only win because he, Sebastian Vettel is a magnanimous guy, doing everything Dieter, Helmut and Christian want him to do.

That said, I think Ferrari will be seriously competitive in Abu Dhabi because of the nature of the circuit.
And that means that Mark really has to show that he's faster than Fernando even on this kind of circuit, without the high speed Newey corners and full of heavy breaking areas.
If he can beat Fernando on this kind of circuit, he has proven to be a rightful WDC.

Edited by scheivlak, 07 November 2010 - 22:46.