107 replies to this topic

[Mandzipop]

There are some rumours going around about Red Bull.

It could be load of bull, but it could be true. It is something to do with Infiniti and Nissan. The Nissan bit I get, Renault and Nissan are part of the same group. But the Infiniti bit I dont get.

From what I can gather it will be Infiniti that will own the team and Red Bull will be title sponsors and they will have Nissan engines (ie Renault engines re-branded as Nissan engines).

This is only rumour. I cant really quote the source as F1Times and F1Scoop have said they have had emails about it and apparently Joe Saward is aware of it too.

Could be a load of rubbish, but it might not be. Announcement due on 31st January.

If it is true, then that is a shock. Red Bull pulling out as soon as they have won both championships and only remaining as title sponsors.

[midgrid]

Saward wrote about the engines being badged as Infinitis a few weeks ago, but the whole team? If that's what the car group wanted to do, why on earth did it sell Renault to Genii in the first place? I can't imagine it would make a profit out of buying the current champion team.

EDIT: Saward link.

Edited by midgrid, 24 January 2011 - 23:27.

[Andrew Hope]

Buy low, sell high.

[bauss]

that is prettey random

[gd2]

There are some rumours going around about Red Bull.

It could be load of bull, but it could be true. It is something to do with Infiniti and Nissan. The Nissan bit I get, Renault and Nissan are part of the same group. But the Infiniti bit I dont get.

From what I can gather it will be Infiniti that will own the team and Red Bull will be title sponsors and they will have Nissan engines (ie Renault engines re-branded as Nissan engines).

This is only rumour. I cant really quote the source as F1Times and F1Scoop have said they have had emails about it and apparently Joe Saward is aware of it too.

Could be a load of rubbish, but it might not be. Announcement due on 31st January.

If it is true, then that is a shock. Red Bull pulling out as soon as they have won both championships and only remaining as title sponsors.

Infiniti is Nissan's luxury brand like Lexus is to Toyota

[Tenmantaylor]

Surely the Milton Keynes team would remain the same but under Nissan/Infiniti ownership ala Brawn > Mercedes? Would make sense for Renault-Nissan given they will be supplying so many Renailt Engines next year.

Tag line: To Infiniti, and beyond, with wings!

Edited by Tenmantaylor, 24 January 2011 - 23:27.

[Captain Tightpants]

I'd say this is born out of talk that the engine would be branded as Infiniti. I don't think Red Bull are going anywhere, but Renault are looking to rebadge the engine, ptorbably because they're a little touchy about having the de facto works team upstaged by a customer team. Someone has no doubt blown it out of proportion; it's more likely that Red Bull will get rid of Toro Rosso before they ditch Red Bull Racing.

[Amphicar]

There are some rumours going around about Red Bull.

It could be load of bull, but it could be true. It is something to do with Infiniti and Nissan. The Nissan bit I get, Renault and Nissan are part of the same group. But the Infiniti bit I dont get.

From what I can gather it will be Infiniti that will own the team and Red Bull will be title sponsors and they will have Nissan engines (ie Renault engines re-branded as Nissan engines).

This is only rumour. I cant really quote the source as F1Times and F1Scoop have said they have had emails about it and apparently Joe Saward is aware of it too.

Could be a load of rubbish, but it might not be. Announcement due on 31st January.

If it is true, then that is a shock. Red Bull pulling out as soon as they have won both championships and only remaining as title sponsors.

Infiniti is Nissan's "luxury" brand in the same way that Lexus is for Toyota. Rebadging Red Bull's Renault engines as Nissans is quite believable - after all the "Renault" engine used in Formula Renault 3.5 last year was actually a Nissan VQ35 unit. I find the idea of Red Bull selling up to Infiniti and only remaining as title sponsor much harder to swallow. Renault is clearly the senior partner in the Renault/Nissan marriage and Carlos Ghosn, the Chairman of Renault-Nissan b.v. is known to be sceptical about the value of F1 participation for car maufacturers - one of the reasons why the Renault F1 team was sold to Genii. Why then would he do a 180 degree turn and buy into another team? More believable would be Infiniti coming in as a title sponsor for RBR - rather as Lotus is currently the title sponsor of Renault's old team.

[Mandzipop]

I'd say this is born out of talk that the engine would be branded as Infiniti. I don't think Red Bull are going anywhere, but Renault are looking to rebadge the engine, ptorbably because they're a little touchy about having the de facto works team upstaged by a customer team. Someone has no doubt blown it out of proportion; it's more likely that Red Bull will get rid of Toro Rosso before they ditch Red Bull Racing.

Well it is an email that has gone out tonight to various people.

What I would like to also know, if in fact they are using lets say Renault engines re-branded as Nissan, then can Renault still provide 3 other teams on the grid with engines.

Another example would be if more than 3 teams wanted a Ferrari engine. Could Ferrari give 2 other teams an engine with the Ferrari name on it, and give another team the same engine with the FIAT name on it?

Never thought about that before.

[Sakae]

Well this is first time I am hearing about this, but actually I am not suprised at all, because I could not imagine Dietrich Mateschitz would have long staying power equalling his interest in F1 to Ferrari and likes. He got what he wanted, so why not leave before wheel will fall off the little cart? He can charge a top Euro right now, and still have his company name (49%, is it?) plastered on the side-pod; it makes sense. The Renault fingerprints on F1 meanwhile are getting pretty confusing, because I cannot figure out which team they would like to win the championship, but if they own some share in the Infiniti deal (if there is one), I would have to say it's Infiniti/RB again.

Edited by Sakae, 24 January 2011 - 23:45.

[KateLM]

If Red Bull were only the title sponsor, that would presumably mean much less influence from Austria. Which lets face it, probably wouldn't be a bad thing but is that what they want? Maybe now they've got the WCC and Red Bull young driver WDC they are satisfied. But there would be implications for STR and the young driver programme if they were to take a step back.

I find it a stretch to believe though that the parent company of Nissan/Infiniti is really going to buy and fund a top F1 team in this economic climate though.

[Tombstone]

Another example would be if more than 3 teams wanted a Ferrari engine. Could Ferrari give 2 other teams an engine with the Ferrari name on it, and give another team the same engine with the FIAT name on it?

If that did come to pass I'd think Maserati or Alfa Romeo would be more likely candidates,

-------------

I seem to recall mentioning that Renault could use Nissan as an engine brand, particularly due to the relative market share of the Nissan and Renault in N. America. I also seem to recall my thoughts were rather poo-pooed too.

[Captain Tightpants]

Well it is an email that has gone out tonight to various people.

What I would like to also know, if in fact they are using lets say Renault engines re-branded as Nissan, then can Renault still provide 3 other teams on the grid with engines.

Another example would be if more than 3 teams wanted a Ferrari engine. Could Ferrari give 2 other teams an engine with the Ferrari name on it, and give another team the same engine with the FIAT name on it?

Never thought about that before.

I don't think they could do that. I'm pretty sure one of the main reasons for the limit on the number of teams a manufacturer can supply is to limit the political power of those manufacturers. Customer teams frequently vote the same way their suppliers do; whether this is coincidence or because their suppliers lean on them is open to debate. But if a manufacturer was able to get around the limit on the number of teams they could supply by supplying engines under a second name, then they could theorectically control enough of the grid to be able to push through any regulation changes they wanted. Naturally, they would push through regulation changes that suited them, which would enable them to become the dominant team in the sport. That can't be allowed to happen.

[Sausage]

Sound like a load of bull to me. I mean for one why tell Vettel he's the man we'll built the team around only to sell it months later? Maybe it got a little too hectic for Mateschitz and he wants out while on top, like Brawn he can fetch a nice price at least, but still it wouldn't make much sense.

[V8 Fireworks]

I mean for one why tell Vettel he's the man we'll built the team

So what do you when Ricciardo soundly and regularly beats Vettel?

Nasty Ferrari-Raikkonen style split?

[clipper]

Sound like a load of bull to me. I mean for one why tell Vettel he's the man we'll built the team around only to sell it months later? Maybe it got a little too hectic for Mateschitz and he wants out while on top, like Brawn he can fetch a nice price at least, but still it wouldn't make much sense.

Agreed, and when you look at Torro Rosso still owned by Red Bull, I would have thought they would be sold first.

[Nustang70]

There are some rumours going around about Red Bull.

It could be load of bull, but it could be true. It is something to do with Infiniti and Nissan. The Nissan bit I get, Renault and Nissan are part of the same group. But the Infiniti bit I dont get.

From what I can gather it will be Infiniti that will own the team and Red Bull will be title sponsors and they will have Nissan engines (ie Renault engines re-branded as Nissan engines).

This is only rumour. I cant really quote the source as F1Times and F1Scoop have said they have had emails about it and apparently Joe Saward is aware of it too.

Could be a load of rubbish, but it might not be. Announcement due on 31st January.

If it is true, then that is a shock. Red Bull pulling out as soon as they have won both championships and only remaining as title sponsors.

Darn! If only Bahar had known that Red Bull was up for sale!

[Slackbladder]

On one level it does make sense. If the point of the Red Bull racing team was to provide maximum exposure for Red Bull from a marketing point of view, then that work is now done. Over the last 5 years or so, 'Red Bull' has grown and grown as a brand, and probably that growth has reached it's high point. In addition the 'value' of the team (general economic times aside) is probably at a high point given both the constructors and drivers championships being won. Red Bull can continue to reap the benefits of the marketing by being the title sponsors of course.

In addition getting to the top of the tree is one thing. Staying there is another and requires high levels of continous investment. Red Bull might not be willing to continue to plug large amount of money to keep at the top, especially for drivers etc (Vettel being considerable more expensive to keep now than in the past). Brawn for example being a team able to come out of the blue and make the best use of changing regulation in one year, but not being able to maintain that level one year to the next.

Edited by Slackbladder, 25 January 2011 - 07:35.

[Fastcake]

I doubt Red Bull are going anywhere. The F1 team is the highest profile of all their sporting interests, unless they plan on radically changing their marketing then Red Bull is here to stay. The engines could easily be rebranding, that at least makes perfect sense.

[DracoN]

re-badging is lame

[Owen]

I don't think it will happen but there is a precedent. Mercedes and McLaren.

[Ross Stonefeld]

I can see Red Bull-Renaults becoming Nissans or Infinitis, but not buying the team. They could have just taken over, you know, the existing Renault team and renamed it.

[marcoferrari]

So what do you when Ricciardo soundly and regularly beats Vettel?

Nasty Ferrari-Raikkonen style split?

That guy even didn t turn a single km in a Formula One race, but he will "for sure" regulary beat Vettel...

[The Ragged Edge]

I can see Red Bull-Renaults becoming Nissans or Infinitis, but not buying the team. They could have just taken over, you know, the existing Renault team and renamed it.

Since when have boardroom decisions always been logical, or made financial/economic sense? If the story turned out to be completely false, or true, I would not be surprised either way. The Red Bull angle to just be title sponsors makes financial sense. So does the rebadging of the engine, but these are all marketing strategies way above my levels of experience in this field. Only time will tell whether this story is pre-season BS or fact.

[Duck of Death]

Inifinity are trying to break into the UK and eureopian market, seems like a good idea!

[BRK]

Wow! Big news if it's a takeover,only a week away so we should know soon.

[Captain Tightpants]

Wow! Big news if it's a takeover,only a week away so we should know soon.

There won't be a takeover. This is the one and only rumour suggesting that such a thing is possible, and it can be traced back to another rumour that an engine rebranding is a potential change to be made. What posible motivation woul Red Bull have for selling the team? Sure, they've won both World Championships, but they've got the best designer and some of the best drivers. Why give that up when they can win more World Championships?

[Callahan]

That guy even didn t turn a single km in a Formula One race, but he will "for sure" regulary beat Vettel...

Trust me, when Mark retires, Ricciardo will destroy Vettel........................sorry, just thought I'd get in early with that one.

[BRK]

There won't be a takeover. This is the one and only rumour suggesting that such a thing is possible, and it can be traced back to another rumour that an engine rebranding is a potential change to be made. What posible motivation woul Red Bull have for selling the team? Sure, they've won both World Championships, but they've got the best designer and some of the best drivers. Why give that up when they can win more World Championships?

I know,that's what beats me. From the Renault perspective,however,couldn't this be thought of us a step up in their F1 efforts,rather than the opposite which a lot of people thought was the case all along? Perhaps they intended to have a works team after all,just a better,well-oiled outfit that're set to remain at the top for a long time and not the team that is now Lotus...

[mtknot]

The most that would happen is the renault engines being rebadged as nissan/infiniti. Infiniti is more liklier given the lackluster performance versus other competing japanese luxury brands which have tried to establish themselves in europe.

Like how Red Bull used F1 to promote their brand image, renault would use red bull's success to promote their sub-brands. I beleive they see this as the way forward. Would be interesting to know how much of the engine tech in that renault engine is derived from nissan's development... from what it seems in renault's lower fromulas, most of it.

Renault has never been seen as a luxury brand too, compared to the likes of Ferrari, Mercedes, however Infiniti which is not as well known would be able to draw the interests of this group.

However the suggestion that red bull would suddenly disappear/be bought up by infiniti/nissan/renault is rather far fetched...

[aditya-now]

I know,that's what beats me. From the Renault perspective,however,couldn't this be thought of us a step up in their F1 efforts,rather than the opposite which a lot of people thought was the case all along? Perhaps they intended to have a works team after all,just a better,well-oiled outfit that're set to remain at the top for a long time and not the team that is now Lotus...

While I don´t think that Mateschitz and Marko will give up so easily what they have built (they will milk it for a few more seasons) it is indeed noteworthy to see the transition of the ex-Renault works team into Group Lotus.
And Red Bull-Infiniti or Infiniti-Red Bull is not out of the question - be it only by having the Renault engines rebadged as Infiniti engines.

The whole Group Lotus effort and the shakiness and style of Bahar´s exploits is a matter that won´t sit easy with Ghosn - I can imagine he wants to steer clear from this PR disaster (how many PR disasters was Renault involved with in the last three years in F1 - none of their own doing?).

So to reshuffle the cards, and maybe a step-by-step transition from Red Bull-Infiniti to Infiniti - Red Bull (what about FOM money - could they change their identity so easily?) would be in the interest of the Renault concern, and be it under the name Infiniti. At least Red Bull seems a real racer´s team, with sporting values that sit better with Ghosn then the developing Lotus-Renault drama (the Renault name will be in the courts for most of the 2011 season...by none of their own doing)

[muramasa]

This is OT I know, but it's kinda shame that Nissan is under Renault. Nissan is better company than Renault in terms of technology but Renault is good at business. Shame to see Nissan's technology being sucked by Renault, especially electric car related technology. I hope Nissan part ways with Renault as soon as possible, it's good for Nissan.

[bluffalo]

I would have thought Nissan had the better racing heritage than Infiniti... wouldn't that be a better brand name to stick on the side of a car right up the front of the pack?

Until there is an Infiniti GT-R and 370z..... i don't see why it makes sense.


but then i haven't run a huge company before

[plastik2k9]

Unless Red Bull know the team has reached its peak, and that it's only going to go downhill from here, then I don't see why they'd sell. The team is well established and professional, they have experienced guys on board and as far as I'm concerned, they've got everything required to be a top team for years to come. I don't think for a second that they're 'one hit wonders', so I don't see why Red Bull would sell up.

The engine situation sounds more reasonable however.

[Fastcake]

I would have thought Nissan had the better racing heritage than Infiniti... wouldn't that be a better brand name to stick on the side of a car right up the front of the pack?

Until there is an Infiniti GT-R and 370z..... i don't see why it makes sense.


but then i haven't run a huge company before

That's irrelevant. It's the marketing that matters, Infiniti needs the publicity and recognition that F1 would bring in Europe, Nissan does not. Red Bull Infiniti does sound a lot cooler than Red Bull Renault, so I wouldn't mind an engine re-brand, makes perfect sense.

[Amphicar]

This is OT I know, but it's kinda shame that Nissan is under Renault. Nissan is better company than Renault in terms of technology but Renault is good at business. Shame to see Nissan's technology being sucked by Renault, especially electric car related technology. I hope Nissan part ways with Renault as soon as possible, it's good for Nissan.

Nissan isn't going anywhere unless Renault decide to sell. Renault holds a 44.3% stake in Nissan, while Nissan holds 15% of Renault shares. A strategic management company, Renault-Nissan b.v., was founded "to define a common strategy and manage synergies". It was created under Dutch law and is jointly and equally owned by the two partners. Renault-Nissan b.v. hosts the Alliance Board of Directors. Chaired by Carlos Ghosn, it is composed of three Renault directors and three Nissan directors. It steers the Alliance’s medium- and long-term strategy and coordinates joint activities on a worldwide scale.

Carlos Ghosn was the Renault VP who saved Nissan from bankruptcy in the 1990s by using drastic cost-cutting measures, by implementing Western-style changes, such as plant closings and layoffs, and by breaking a Japanese culture used to life-long job security. In 1999, Ghosn unveiled his Nissan Revival Plan and pledged to quit if Nissan was not profitable within one year. He proved all the doubters wrong when the 2000 fiscal year was not only profitable but provided the best financial performance in the company's history.

[Timstr11]

I can see RedBull-Infiti happening. No ownership change, but merely RedBull getting gratis rebadged Renault engines, but payed for by Infiniti.

Infiniti is desperate to get more exposure in Europe.

F1 branding with a front running team would be ideal for Infiniti. And Redbull not having to pay for engines.

[2ms]

This is OT I know, but it's kinda shame that Nissan is under Renault. Nissan is better company than Renault in terms of technology but Renault is good at business. Shame to see Nissan's technology being sucked by Renault, especially electric car related technology. I hope Nissan part ways with Renault as soon as possible, it's good for Nissan.

Can't say I agree with that one. Renault makes a lot of driver's cars like Megane and Clio cups that are the top in their category. Nissan makes a bunch of cars based on a SUV platform (The FX.G-series,Z , GT-R platform all the same and all extremely overweight) with a big old 3.5L V6, none of which top in their category. And those are its most highly regarded vehicles. It's mainline FWD vehicles based on Altima/Murano etc are 2nd-rate Accord/Camry wannabes. Thanks but don't see where this technology you're talking about lies. Sorry to be so harsh.

Sorry if I'm a little hash but Renault is definitely the driver's car maker of the two and Nissan's performance cars like the 1800kg GT-R rolling video game are quite the polar opposite of F1 cars in their driving dynamics/approach to achieving performance numbers.

[One]

Do this story include présence of a fourth party who is not Red Bull nor Renault-Nissan nor the current team management? I can imagine that a company interested in becomming a champion imediately given a right price. Or should It be the management trying a way out to become the true racer with no politics and seducing Infinity? That is a bit far fetched story perhaps.

[muramasa]

Can't say I agree with that one. Renault makes a lot of driver's cars like Megane and Clio cups that are the top in their category. Nissan makes a bunch of cars based on a SUV platform (The FX.G-series,Z , GT-R platform all the same and all extremely overweight) with a big old 3.5L V6, none of which top in their category. And those are its most highly regarded vehicles. It's mainline FWD vehicles based on Altima/Murano etc are 2nd-rate Accord/Camry wannabes. Thanks but don't see where this technology you're talking about lies. Sorry to be so harsh.

Sorry if I'm a little hash but Renault is definitely the driver's car maker of the two and Nissan's performance cars like the 1800kg GT-R rolling video game are quite the polar opposite of F1 cars in their driving dynamics/approach to achieving performance numbers.

In Japan they are always good competitor of Toyota/Honda etc and regarded on par with those rivals, offering variety of lineup. Those small-mid sized cars must not be available in European market, so that's why you are not aware of. Also, Nissan's equivalent to Accord/Camry is Teana, which is hardly a wannabe. Also they've just launched ambitious Leaf, an all electric car.

I admit I'm not well aware of Renault's lineups, but I take Nissan cars over Renault any day.

Edited by muramasa, 25 January 2011 - 11:10.

[muramasa]

Carlos Ghosn was the Renault VP who saved Nissan from bankruptcy in the 1990s by using drastic cost-cutting measures, by implementing Western-style changes, such as plant closings and layoffs, and by breaking a Japanese culture used to life-long job security. In 1999, Ghosn unveiled his Nissan Revival Plan and pledged to quit if Nissan was not profitable within one year. He proved all the doubters wrong when the 2000 fiscal year was not only profitable but provided the best financial performance in the company's history.

Ghosn is severely overrated. Yes, Nissan's crisis in 90's was brought by ineffective traditional industrial structure. But that was clear to see for everyone actually, no complication involved, everyone acknowledges where the problem is and what to do, and any Japanese CEO wouldve been able to do that. But they couldnt do that restructuring by themselves - why? because, if it's Japanese CEO who had done that, there couldve been alot of resistances and accusations coming from not only all those related parts companies but probably also from media - Nissan's bloodless restructuring, or sth like that. But if it's a foreigner CEO, people think "oh, it's what foreigner CEO does, so we have to accept..". Might sound stupid to some of you but that's truth, Japanese mentality that is. Truth is that Nissan couldve done that restructuring by themselves, but feared criticisms from within so didnt even tried to solve it and carry out by themselves, and instead they sold themselves to Renault and brought Ghosn in and let him do what they couldve done by themselves easily.

Edited by muramasa, 25 January 2011 - 11:11.

[teejay]

That's irrelevant. It's the marketing that matters, Infiniti needs the publicity and recognition that F1 would bring in Europe, Nissan does not. Red Bull Infiniti does sound a lot cooler than Red Bull Renault, so I wouldn't mind an engine re-brand, makes perfect sense.

Correct.

if its true, its a marketing move nothing more.

[Amphicar]

Can't say I agree with that one. Renault makes a lot of driver's cars like Megane and Clio cups that are the top in their category. Nissan makes a bunch of cars based on a SUV platform (The FX.G-series,Z , GT-R platform all the same and all extremely overweight) with a big old 3.5L V6, none of which top in their category. And those are its most highly regarded vehicles. It's mainline FWD vehicles based on Altima/Murano etc are 2nd-rate Accord/Camry wannabes. Thanks but don't see where this technology you're talking about lies. Sorry to be so harsh.

Well the Renault badged engine used in Formula Renault 3.5 is actually a Nissan VQ35 unit and the Nissan GT-R holds the Nurburgring Nordschliefe lap record. Nissan is also at the leading edge of the development of electric cars, with the LEAF having won the 2011 Car of the Year award.

Whilst I'm not convinced by the RBR take-over rumour, it is interesting that the headquarters of Nissan Technical Centre Europe is only 7 miles from Red Bull Racing's Milton Keynes factory.

[teejay]

Can't say I agree with that one. Renault makes a lot of driver's cars like Megane and Clio cups that are the top in their category. Nissan makes a bunch of cars based on a SUV platform (The FX.G-series,Z , GT-R platform all the same and all extremely overweight) with a big old 3.5L V6, none of which top in their category. And those are its most highly regarded vehicles. It's mainline FWD vehicles based on Altima/Murano etc are 2nd-rate Accord/Camry wannabes. Thanks but don't see where this technology you're talking about lies. Sorry to be so harsh.

Sorry if I'm a little hash but Renault is definitely the driver's car maker of the two and Nissan's performance cars like the 1800kg GT-R rolling video game are quite the polar opposite of F1 cars in their driving dynamics/approach to achieving performance numbers.

The GTR is not made on any common platform - it has its own individual platform and chasis.

Funnily enough Nissan are using the VQ37 not the VQ35 these days, I have tested a couple of vehicles with it, there is a reason why that family of engine has won numerous awards - they are excellent engines.

If you think a Clio is closer to a F1 car than a GTR then your way off the mark.

Amphicar - the GTR no longer holds the record.

Edited by teejay, 25 January 2011 - 11:23.

[Amphicar]

Ghosn is severely overrated. Yes, Nissan's crisis in 90's was brought by ineffective traditional industrial structure. But that was clear to see for everyone actually, no complication involved, everyone acknowledges where the problem is and what to do, and any Japanese CEO wouldve been able to do that. But they couldnt do that restructuring by themselves - why? because, if it's Japanese CEO who had done that, there couldve been alot of resistances and accusations coming from not only all those related parts companies but probably also from media - Nissan's bloodless restructuring, or sth like that. But if it's a foreigner CEO, people think "oh, it's what foreigner CEO does, so we have to accept..". Might sound stupid to some of you but that's truth, Japanese mentality that is. Truth is that Nissan couldve done that restructuring by themselves, but feared criticisms from within so didnt even tried to solve it and carry out by themselves, and instead they sold themselves to Renault and brought Ghosn in and let him do what they couldve done by themselves easily.

Clearly from your own summary of the situation, Nissan could not have "easily" turned round the company by themselves - it could only be done by an outsider not afraid to kill off a few Japanese sacred cows (like Nissan's aerospace division). Ghosn wasn't just any outsider either - before taking on Nissan's $20 bn debt he already had a track record in turning loss-making companies into profitable market leaders: first with Michelin in both South and North America and then with Renault. When Ghosn joined Renault in 1996 it was a loss-making state owned basket case. Within 10 years the company was profitable, the government's shareholding had declined to 16% and Renault was the best-selling brand in Western Europe.

[finignig]

I drive an Infiniti coupe with a VQ37 engine bolted in it. I dont see where all this slag is coming from towards Nissan/Infiniti from some of the posters. I went for the Infiniti over BMW and Benz and price had nothing to do with it.

Same is the case with everyone here in the middle-east, the Infiniti brand is growing spectacularly and I believe they are in dire need of exposure in Europe in order to penetrate the market there. Their product is not inferior.

[noshpit]

I think that it is more likely that infiniti will be a sponsor of red bull rather than take it over, I remember that dietrich said that he would like to get a title sponsor for the team

[muramasa]

Clearly from your own summary of the situation, Nissan could not have "easily" turned round the company by themselves - it could only be done by an outsider not afraid to kill off a few Japanese sacred cows (like Nissan's aerospace division). Ghosn wasn't just any outsider either - before taking on Nissan's $20 bn debt he already had a track record in turning loss-making companies into profitable market leaders: first with Michelin in both South and North America and then with Renault. When Ghosn joined Renault in 1996 it was a loss-making state owned basket case. Within 10 years the company was profitable, the government's shareholding had declined to 16% and Renault was the best-selling brand in Western Europe.

In reality that's the fact of the matter, I'm not disagreeing with that part itself. I just stated the reason behind it. My point is that they didnt need to sell themselves and bring an outsider (foreigner) to restructure themselves. And I believe they couldve easily done it by themselves if they wanted to. But they just didnt even try.

Edited by muramasa, 25 January 2011 - 11:59.

[jee]

Renault engines re-branded as Nissan engines

There have been so many rumours about engines rebadged to another manufacturer but it NEVER happened so far as far as I can remember.
Old engines rebadged to tuning companies excluded from this.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Ford became Jaguar