46 replies to this topic

[primer]

Congresswoman wants to end military's NASCAR sponsorships

A member of Congress wants to end the military's sponsorship of NASCAR race teams, saying it's a waste of taxpayers' money.

Rep. Betty McCollum, D-Minnesota, is offering an amendment to the 2011 House budget bill to ban the sponsorships, which her office said has cost the military $100 million over the past 10 years, according to the Minneapolis Star-Tribune.

The National Guard sponsors Dale Earnhardt Jr.'s team, the Army sponsors Ryan Newman, and the Air Force sponsors AJ Allmendinger, according to HamptonRoads.com.

"I would challenge the Pentagon to give me one example of someone today in Iraq or Afghanistan who saw the Go Army car going around the racetrack and that's why they joined the Army," Bill Harper, McCollum's chief of staff, told HamptonRoads.com. "It may be the reason why they go to Home Depot but not necessarily Afghanistan."

McCollum is in her sixth term and serves on the House Appropriations and Budget committees.

"NASCAR fans are the kind of people who fight America's wars, which would put into question the wisdom of banning the military's ability to reach out to them," NASCAR spokesman Randy Poston said in the HamptonRoads report.

More than 400 amendments to the budget bill have been offered. To become part of the law, they must survive subcommittee and committee votes as well as passage by the full House and Senate, followed by the president's signature.

Getting more and more politics mixed with motorsports news these past few days, eh.

[jonnoj]

They also throw a lot of dosh at Dragsters, which I'd have thought was more up their street.
Loadsa money going up in smoke in a matter of seconds.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Well they need to advertise and it's a good crowd for their demographic. Plus it's one of the few US sports where you can actually sponsor the teams.

Though I do question the efficiency of it, because NASCAR sponsorships are *expensive* and since it's primarily a recruitment drive (think of it as sales/hospitality in normal sponsorship terms) you don't need to be the primary sponsor to accomplish that.

I used to work for Haas/Carter when they had the National Guard sponsorship. In...uh...2003? With Todd Bodine? So I always look at Dale Jr's National Guard sponsorship and sigh

But on a side note, and very cool for me at least, was we were in the Budweiser Shootout that year and that was a week or two after the space shuttle Columbia broke up on re-entry. At the time the Army and Air Force sponsorships in NASCAR weren't that big so we were the only full-force military racing program, and as part of the graphis/marketing team I said to my boss "You know, we should do a special NASA paintjob for Daytona". There wasn't enough time to do a full one, but they called the General at the National Guard, and I mean the General who called NASA and they ended up putting the Columbia mission decal on the hood. Which all happened so quickly I didn't even know until the car was racing on TV.

[Villes Gilleneuve]

But on a side note, and very cool for me at least, was we were in the Budweiser Shootout that year and that was a week or two after the space shuttle Columbia broke up on re-entry. At the time the Army and Air Force sponsorships in NASCAR weren't that big so we were the only full-force military racing program, and as part of the graphis/marketing team I said to my boss "You know, we should do a special NASA paintjob for Daytona". There wasn't enough time to do a full one, but they called the General at the National Guard, and I mean the General who called NASA and they ended up putting the Columbia mission decal on the hood. Which all happened so quickly I didn't even know until the car was racing on TV.

Gee, at a time of war and paranoia, you'd think a general would have more important things on his mind.

The US military has more money than they know what to do with. Remember, these are the guys who "misplaced" $7B in US cash in Iraq after the second invasion. It was literally palettes of cash that had to be moved by a fork lift. Gone.

Sponsoring racing is a tremendous waste of money, but so are TV ads. The military's best recruiting tool has been the decimated US economy.

Another tool has been the support of video games development. All those hyper-real violent games are underwritten by DoD to encourage kids to find the joy in killing people.

It's funny that a Republican is driving this, it was her government that ramped up spending in racing under Bush. I'm sure they'll blame the socialist pinko liberals.

[JosTheBoss]

NASCAR fans are the kind of people who fight America's wars

Reading that as a non-Nascar fan, I dont know if that's a put down .... or a compliment. But from Nascar's spokesperson, assume it's a compliment.

[Barky]

It's funny that a Republican is driving this, it was her government that ramped up spending in racing under Bush. I'm sure they'll blame the socialist pinko liberals.

"Rep. Betty McCollum, D-Minnesota"

Just for clarification purposes, the "D" doesn't stand for "Republican."

[JacnGille]

The racing sponsorship is probably 1/100th of 1% of the yearly military budget. I doubt that sum would buy very many tanks.

[F1_conman]

as a U.S. taxpayer I don't give a hoot about army and NASCAR connection

why can't we invent a political system where each bill/project funding would have to
be approved with a click of an i-phone app??? - the funding would be tied through taxes only to that individual's income who
elected "yes" on his/her i-phone.

BTW - full disclaimer to Steve Jobs - if this becomes a reality I want a piece of action for this idea....

Then republicans could pay with their taxes for building a giant fence on the mexican border or military support and conversely
democracts could fund the healthcare reform changes with their taxes.

But you know what would happen in the end - gvt would run out of money in a week if this was implemented

[Sausage]

You can't run out of virtual money , all "printing more" does is hurt the confidence in your currency but that can't really hurt the dollar as it has the biggest economy and military behind it still. They do lower it themselves artificially to compete with China.

I don't think she understands how marketing works anyway (of course I'm an expert lol). It's not because people will go run out and buy/join whatever that they do marketing, it's to keep your product/service in the back of people heads. It's the same reason smoking ads are banned in most places. Of course nobody ever ran out to the smokeshop in the past after seeing that stuff, but it would be an "option" if they ever felt like doing something they didn't do before. Same goes for joining the army. Awkwardly enough of course we can conclude from this that the governments of our countries want us to quit smoking and join the army! eheh

But like stated the demographic in this case is a perfect fit. Most boys out there are from nascar country, you don't often see some new york metrosexal on patrol do you?

And yes she is a Democrat.

[Buttoneer]

Posts deleted. This is a good topic for discussion but please remember that this is first and foremost a motorsports forum. If you wish to discuss US policy, this board has a separate forum where US politics and monetary policy may be discussed more generally. If you don't already have access to the Paddock Club forum, you may follow the instructions on the main page to get in.

[whitewaterMkII]

She's probably bending over the France's to get a race in her state.
This is also the same congress critter that wanted a million bucks to save some scummy pond, wants money for Public broadcasting and jumped on having more gun control before the smoke even cleared in Tucson.
Just another grandstander...which is the full time job of every congressman, instead of doing the job they are send to do.
10 mil a year is pocket change in the defence budget, and she knows that.
She's only looking for ink.

[pingu666]

isnt there a pretty decent program for veterns and stuff linked with armed forces sponsorship ?

nascars demographic is stylized as poor/middle income familys, and those are the people who join the military cos theres few opportunities for them, so they do fight america's wars.

same in other places too

[whitewaterMkII]

isnt there a pretty decent program for veterns and stuff linked with armed forces sponsorship ?

nascars demographic is stylized as poor/middle income familys, and those are the people who join the military cos theres few opportunities for them, so they do fight america's wars.

same in other places too

And then there are guys like my bro-in-law, with 4,000+ hours of flight time, a Masters degree, 1600 employees, a 600 million dollar budget and 70 F-16's to keep running that work for the military. yeah, he does get perks now and then, like seeing the Phoenix NASCAR race from the lead ship in the flyover two years ago.
A job like his in the private sector would pay in the millions, but he's doing it for a salary of a tick over a 100k a year as a Colonel.
I gurantee you it never crossed that congresswoman's mind to take that NASCAR sponsorship money and re-distribute it to rank and file members that are in the military, she would rather bleat about it being a 'waste' than do anything constructive for the military.

[JackTorrance]

"As of 2010, the United States spends about $692 billion annually to fund its military forces, constituting approximately 43 percent of world military expenditures (as of 2009)."

From Wiki. Seems to me they wont miss a measly 100 million dollars? And since NASCAR is so popular in the US, the gains would be tangible from such sponsorhsip.

[ch103]

Congresswoman wants to end military's NASCAR sponsorships



Getting more and more politics mixed with motorsports news these past few days, eh.

it is a total waste of taxpayer money

pull the plug USA!

[nosaj100]

Yeah, seems like a bit of uneducated grand-standing to me. There are far better ways to cut down on excessive military spending which I won't get into here but this isn't one of them.

[whitewaterMkII]

Seems to me they wont miss a measly 100 million dollars? And since NASCAR is so popular in the US, the gains would be tangible from such sponsorhsip.

That's one hundred million over TEN years
Or less than the cost of fuel that the congress critters spend on junket flights that they demand the military provide the planes for.
Here's an idea Ms. Congresswoman, why don't don't you kill this Airforce program:
The House Appropriations Committee added another $132 million dollars to the bill in July 2009 for a total of 3 C-37A aircraft, otherwise known to us peon taxpayers as a Gulfsteam V business jet. They only appropiated the money for these planes so congress could fly wherever they want, when they want. That's purchase only, and doesn't include money for maintenance or personnel to maintain and fly them, and lord knows that 132 million dollar bill will end up costing me, and my fellow joe sixpack racefans another 20 million by the time they do fly them.
Morons and grandstanders, do your FREAKIN' job. And it ain't buying 3 or 4 multi million dollar jets every year for you to fly to Bali on 'fact finding' tours.

Edited by whitewaterMkII, 18 February 2011 - 01:58.

[Louis Siefert]

reinstate the draft no need to advertise...

[anbeck]

Not only is sponsoring a NASCAR entry a waste of public money.

Even worse: this might lead to people entering the military, which is even a greater waste of money and talent!

Edited by anbeck, 18 February 2011 - 07:08.

[Ross Stonefeld]

I'd estimate the military is spending 50mil ish on all their racing programs.

Which is Dale Jr National Guard, which would be their highest rate program. National Guard IRL will be a mil or two more.

Army is a part season primary sponsor on Ryan Newman, plus NHRA?

Air Force is either Wood Brothers or was Elliott Sadler at RPM/Petty, but that was even more of a part season than the Army deal.

Are Navy/Coast Guard still doing Nationwide stuff?


50 is slightly on the high side because I'm factoring in advertising and other activation costs on top of the actual checks that are sent to the team.



It's a bit like when RBS became a government owned bank and everyone started screaming about the waste of F1. Either the F1 deal was a good program and met internal business requirements or it didn't. They still have to advertise. But sports, particularly racing, are viewed as luxury items rather than business tools. Despite important details like RBS helping finance CVC's F1 purchase, so there'd be some decent fees on that...

[Rubens Hakkamacher]

That's one hundred million over TEN years

It doesn't matter, it's still unnecessary. When government jobs are being eliminated to save $20,000, it's a lot of money. It only seems like it's not much relative to the incomprehensible number associated with the debt in the past years.

[Ross Stonefeld]

It's a business expense like any other advertising spend. If they spent an equivalent amount of money on highway billboards people wouldn't be up in arms about it. I doubt they'd even notice they were there...

[teejay]

Why is a women out of the kitchen ranting and raving about wanting to cut sponsorship to race cars?

[Rubens Hakkamacher]

It's a business expense like any other advertising spend. If they spent an equivalent amount of money on highway billboards people wouldn't be up in arms about it. I doubt they'd even notice they were there...

They shouldn't be there, either. The point being, the right wing is frothing at the mouth about being "conservative", except in very "specific" ways - the fact of the matter is that the U.S. is broke, and cannot afford to spend *anything* that isn't bottom-line critical.

Unless one subscribes to the point of view that the Fall is happening, and we're stimulating a pad to land on.

What would make more sense from a government spending standpoint is using that money to subsidize progressive advances in electric car technology to compete with other nations (who subsidize their industry). There's no practical rhyme or reason to spending in the U.S. except from the standpoint of "this is the result of manipulation of Congress".

It doesn't make sense for the Army to be subsidizing a dragster when at one point they were having trouble coming up with ammo to give to soldiers.

[whitewaterMkII]

They shouldn't be there, either. The point being, the right wing is frothing at the mouth about being "conservative", except in very "specific" ways - the fact of the matter is that the U.S. is broke, and cannot afford to spend *anything* that isn't bottom-line critical.

tell that to congress or the current administration, it's apparent that they will borrow money on our backs forever
Until congress does get serious, which will be never, about not borrowing and blowing money like it grows on trees, 10 mil a year 'savings' on stopping any NASCAR funding is a silly, sick joke.
If they really were serious about killing all unecessary spending, and halting all waste and fraud I would all for them killing off an race funding, until then they can go screw

[Ross Stonefeld]

They shouldn't be there, either. The point being, the right wing is frothing at the mouth about being "conservative", except in very "specific" ways - the fact of the matter is that the U.S. is broke, and cannot afford to spend *anything* that isn't bottom-line critical.

Unless one subscribes to the point of view that the Fall is happening, and we're stimulating a pad to land on.

What would make more sense from a government spending standpoint is using that money to subsidize progressive advances in electric car technology to compete with other nations (who subsidize their industry). There's no practical rhyme or reason to spending in the U.S. except from the standpoint of "this is the result of manipulation of Congress".

It doesn't make sense for the Army to be subsidizing a dragster when at one point they were having trouble coming up with ammo to give to soldiers.

The Army isnt doing it because they like drag racing but because they think it's a cost effective way to recruit.

[Villes Gilleneuve]

The Army isnt doing it because they like drag racing but because they think it's a cost effective way to recruit.

Are you really this naive?

Any government agency advertising is connected to corruption and political influence. Any country.

I'd like to see the proof that sponsoring drag racing is cost effective.

[Villes Gilleneuve]

Why is a women out of the kitchen ranting and raving about wanting to cut sponsorship to race cars?

[Ross Stonefeld]

Are you really this naive?

Any government agency advertising is connected to corruption and political influence. Any country.

I'd like to see the proof that sponsoring drag racing is cost effective.

Prove to me it isn't. No sponsorship at this level is done because the boss simply likes it. This isn't the 60s.

[SlateGray]

"Washington, DC -- An amendment by Congresswoman Betty McCollum (D-MN) to prohibit the Department of Defense from using tens of millions of taxpayer funds for NASCAR race car sponsorships failed by a vote of 148 to 281"

http://www.mccollum....p...iew&id=1319

[Ross Stonefeld]

Someone should do a Freedom of Information Act on all the racing sponsorships. Purely because it would be an interesting scenario to see what a sponsor is spending, how they are spending it, and the metrics used to determine success.

[Slyder]

Someone should do a Freedom of Information Act on all the racing sponsorships. Purely because it would be an interesting scenario to see what a sponsor is spending, how they are spending it, and the metrics used to determine success.

We should do a collect here on the forum to raise the money for the fee. Then you Ross or someone in DC pays the fee and we'll get it and you can post it here on the forum.

[gm914]

Given the nature of the South, where the lines of Church, State and Budweiser are often intertwined, I'm surprised the Catholic church hasn't gone ahead and sponsored NASCAR.



Oh Jesus...nice shades...

Edited by gm914, 18 February 2011 - 21:43.

[primer]

Army Wins NASCAR Sponsorship Fight

The Army, the Air Force and the National Guard NASCAR racing teams will ride again this year, after the House voted 241-148 to ditch a measure to ban the Pentagon from sponsoring stock car teams.

The measure was introduced by Rep. Betty McCollum (D., Minn.) as an amendment to the House’s spending bill for the rest of fiscal year 2011, which ends Sept. 30. Ms. McCollum said the spending on NASCAR teams does nothing for military readiness.

The Army spends $7 million a year on its NASCAR team, and sees it as a useful recruiting tool. The Army picked up 46,000 recruiting leads in 2010 through its racing team, Col. Derik Crotts, director of the Army’s sponsorship, told Washington Wire.

Congress itself directed the Army in 2000 to explore motor sports sponsorships as a recruiting tool. At some point in the last decade, each branch of the military had a partnership with NASCAR racing. The Marines axed their racing team in 2006 because of a smaller ad budget and because there was no way to know if it actually boosted recruiting. Today, only the Army, the National Guard and the Air Force still sponsor race cars.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Granted leads won't automatically become signings, but that's still enough people interested to fill three Divisions.

[primer]

Yes but what's odd is marines not finding any reportable benefit, and Army doing so. Makes me wonder if the Army wisened up after what happened with Marines and decided to collect/build/fabricate some kind os statistical data ("recruiting leads") so that they could defend their program if it was ever came under scrutiny.

[Ross Stonefeld]

I think if it wasn't working the Army would happily shut the program down. They have other things to focus on than a sports sponsorship that wasn't working.

Be interested to know what the Marines were spending. I think I remember them doing the Busch/Nationwide series, with Bobby Hamilton Jr? Maybe because the Army was already there, with a top driver, and in the main series; they were taking the recruits that the Marines could have got.

[Rubens Hakkamacher]

The Army isnt doing it because they like drag racing but because they think it's a cost effective way to recruit.

You're not from the U.S., are you?

[Rubens Hakkamacher]

The U.S. is broke, teachers aren't making enough to live, cities are facing negative budgets - and like I said, I know a guy that was recruited in his high school that ended up patrolling streets in Iraq with a gun that only had 1 bullet. It's insane (and corrupt) that we're spending money on drag racing.

[whitewaterMkII]

teachers aren't making enough to live

Dude, that is such a load of crap it's unfreaking believable.
Maybe you ought to get a clue about what you are spouting before you post?
Right now there is a huge schmozzle in Wisconsin about teachers covering a modicum of the cost of their benefits.
The per capita income in Wisconsin is $ 52,029, the average compensation package for a teacher is $100,005.
I'll say this slowly for you.
Teachers get twice as much compensation than the average Wisconsin Citizen.

Learn your facts before you post, or every thing you post is questionable.

[Ross Stonefeld]

You're not from the U.S., are you?

I am.

And I've worked in racing.

Including a team sponsored by the National Guard.

So what's your point?

[jonnoj]

I know a guy that was recruited in his high school that ended up patrolling streets in Iraq with a gun that only had 1 bullet.

Driving a tank was he?

[Buttoneer]

You're not from the U.S., are you?

I am.

And I've worked in racing.

Including a team sponsored by the National Guard.

So what's your point?

[BRG]

You're not from the U.S., are you?

I am.

Time to put that Arizona State flag back as your avatar, Ross! People are thinking that you've gone native in the UK.

[Ross Stonefeld]

It's not like I call my avatar Biscuit Monster!

[loki]

Time to put that Arizona State flag back as your avatar, Ross! People are thinking that you've gone native in the UK.

I thought Ross was a Brit. I guess I need to apologize. To the Brits.... j/k

[loki]

Teachers get twice as much compensation than the average Wisconsin Citizen.

Learn your facts before you post, or every thing you post is questionable.

Where exactly did your "facts" come from? The Wisconsin Association of School Board (the people that run the schools, not the teacher's union) post an annual review with base, average and max salaries for teachers of all Wisconsin districts. http://www.wasb.org/ Depending on the level of experience the high is US$60k with a MA and 30 plus years experience. With a BA and 9 years experience the average under US$45k. And that includes benefit packages. Breaking public unions isn't about saving money. It's about eliminating the largest funding source for Democratic candidates.