516 replies to this topic

[whitevisor]

?????

That car can be fitted with flux capacitor. Very unique if you ask me.

[MikeTekRacing]

Abu Dhabi?

[tyker]

Abu Dhabi?

Just come back on the penny having just dropped

[tyker]

After India (India times)

1. De La Rosa 0.5s (0.001s)
2. Maldonado 0.45s (0.348s)
3. Alonso 0.35s (0.084s)
4. Kovalainen 0.3s (-0.744s)
5. Glock 0.28s (1.049s)
6. Ricciardo 0.277s (0.519ss)
7. Hamilton 0.16s (-0.077s)
8. Vettel 0.09s (0.044s)
9. Perez 0.085s (1.143s)
10.Grosjean 0.07s (-0.074s)
11.Hulkenburg 0.053s (0.748s)
12.Rosberg 0.05s (0.598s)

[tyker]

After Abu Dhabi (Abu Dhabi times)

1. De La Rosa 0.51s (0.616s)
2. Maldonado 0.45s (0.423s)
3. Alonso 0.34s (0.209s)
4. Ricciardo 0.31s (0.778s)
5. Kovalainen 0.3s (0.195s)
6. Glock 0.24s (-0.337s)
7. Hamilton 0.19s (0.66s)
8. Perez 0.11s (0.522s)
9. Rosberg 0.09s (0.591s)
10.Vettel 0,08s (-0.095s)
11.Hulkenburg 0.06s (0.199s)
12.Grosjean 0.04s (-0.36s)

[Ze Bum]

After Abu Dhabi (Abu Dhabi times)

1. De La Rosa 0.51s (0.616s)
2. Maldonado 0.45s (0.423s)
3. Alonso 0.34s (0.209s)
4. Ricciardo 0.31s (0.778s)
5. Kovalainen 0.3s (0.195s)
6. Glock 0.24s (-0.337s)
7. Hamilton 0.19s (0.66s)
8. Perez 0.11s (0.522s)
9. Rosberg 0.09s (0.591s)
10.Vettel 0,08s (-0.095s)
11.Hulkenburg 0.06s (0.199s)
12.Grosjean 0.04s (-0.36s)

Actually Kimi beat Romain by 0.518.

But I've seen before that you have weird ways to count anyway...

[tyker]

Actually Kimi beat Romain by 0.518.

But I've seen before that you have weird ways to count anyway...

Grosjean's quickest lap was in Q2

[Ze Bum]

Grosjean's quickest lap was in Q2

Yep, as I thought, completely meaningless stats.

[scheivlak]

Yep, as I thought, completely meaningless stats.

Bingo

[Zava]

I think you should exclude the RB pair as Vettel's times were eradicated.

[lbennie]

I think you should exclude the RB pair as Vettel's times were eradicated.

why do you think that?

[tyker]

Yep, as I thought, completely meaningless stats.

The more laps available to use the better to see the driver's potential

[lbennie]

The more laps available to use the better to see the driver's potential

Not really, as tracks performance changes between sessions, so you arent comparing apples to apples

[Cesc]

I agree, only Q3 times are relevant to me.

[Oho]

Not really, as tracks performance changes between sessions, so you arent comparing apples to apples

Why not, the track conditions are still same for drivers in all sessions they attend. From where I am looking including Q2 times at least in comparison is fully justified as it reduces variance on the resulting estimate.

[Ze Bum]

Why not, the track conditions are still same for drivers in all sessions they attend. From where I am looking including Q2 times at least in comparison is fully justified as it reduces variance on the resulting estimate.

While some drivers try everything (new tyres, two hot laps) to get to Q3, their team mates may just be cruising one lap because that's enough. It's pointless to compare Q2 times then.

[Oho]

While some drivers try everything (new tyres, two hot laps) to get to Q3, their team mates may just be cruising one lap because that's enough. It's pointless to compare Q2 times then.

Right, who might those some drivers be? Hamilton and Vettel perhaps, all others pretty much have to go all out in Q2. Actually perhaps only Hamilton as Webber frequently seems almost as certain shoe in for Q3 as Vettel, while Button struggles comparatively.

Edited by Oho, 05 November 2012 - 10:04.

[Ze Bum]

Right, who might those some drivers be? Hamilton and Vettel perhaps, all others pretty much have to go all out in Q2. Actually perhaps only Hamilton as Webber frequently seems almost as certain shoe in for Q3 as Vettel, while Button struggles comparatively.

Massa used to stay in Q2 while trying everything he could, when Alonso was easily in Q3 with one lap. So the difference was actually bigger than what the numbers show.

Also Grosjean has many times had two tries while Raikkonen has advanced with his first try. Hence Raikkonen slower in Q2.

This quali format just makes it impossible to compare times from different sessions. Heck, even Q3 times are not always comparable because of strategy options, saving tyres and such.

[Kyo]

I don't know how it's done but I would compare only the last session's times that both drivers competed in.

[tyker]

After Austin (Austin times)

1. De La Rosa 0.51s (-)
2. Maldonado 0.45s (0.509s)
3. Alonso 0.29s (-0.574s)
4. Glock 0.262s (0.588s)
5. Kovalainen 0.261s (-0.357s)
6. Ricciardo 0.252s (-0.68s)
7. Hamilton 0.19s (-)
8. Perez 0.12s (0.231s)
9. Vettel 0.11s (0.517s)
10.Hulkenburg 0.1s (0.599s)
11.Grosjean 0.05s (0.121s)
12.Schumacher 0.01s (1.399s)

[tyker]

After Brazil (Brazil times) head to head

1. De La Rosa 0.47s (-0.123s) 13-3
2. Maldonado 0.45s (0.521s) 17-1
3. Glock 0.28s (0.596s) 12-6
4. Alonso 0.26s (-0.266s) 14-4
5. Kovalainen 0.25s (-0.146s) 13-7
6. Ricciardo 0.24s (-0.045s) 14-5
7. Hamilton 0.19s (0.055) 14-3
8. Perez 0.12s (0.146s) 10-7
9. Hulkenburg 0.11s (0.417s) 9-8
10.Vettel 0.09s (-0.179s) 9-8
11.Rosberg 0.02s (0.486s) 10-7
12.Grosjean 0.01s (-0.535s) 8-8

[MortenF1]

I took a look at the qualifying differentials the way I think it should be done; which is, if not both get to Q3, then go back to Q2 and compare their times there. Don't compare across sessions.

...doing that for the top half of the grid, I arrived at this;

-Hamilton has on average been 0.24 seconds on average, faster than Button.

-Vettel, 0.08 seconds faster than Webber.

-Alonso, 0.25 seconds faster than Massa.

-Grosjean, 0.04 seconds faster than Räikkönen.

-Rosberg, 0.134 seconds faster than Schumacher.

-Hülkenberg, 0.139 seconds faster than Di Resta.

-Perez, 0.028 seconds faster than Kobayashi.

[tyker]

I took a look at the qualifying differentials the way I think it should be done; which is, if not both get to Q3, then go back to Q2 and compare their times there. Don't compare across sessions.

...doing that for the top half of the grid, I arrived at this;

-Hamilton has on average been 0.24 seconds on average, faster than Button.

-Vettel, 0.08 seconds faster than Webber.

-Alonso, 0.25 seconds faster than Massa.

-Grosjean, 0.04 seconds faster than Räikkönen.

-Rosberg, 0.134 seconds faster than Schumacher.

-Hülkenberg, 0.139 seconds faster than Di Resta.

-Perez, 0.028 seconds faster than Kobayashi.

Yes thats what i do as well

[tyker]

2013 season

Late start this year due to the early season wet qualifying sessions

After Barcelona

1. Bianchi 0.64s
2. Hulkenberg 0.58s
3. Vettel 0.51s
4. Ricciardo 0.43s
5. Raikkonen 0.36s
6. Pic 0.32s
7. Maldonado 0.19s
8. Di Resta 0.15s
9. Rosberg 0.1s
10.Alonso 0.07s
11.Button 0.06s

[tyker]

After Monaco (Monaco difference)

1. Bianchi 0.64s (-)
2. Hulkenberg 0.58s (-)
3. Ricciardo 0.43s (-)
4. Vettel 0.4s (0.201s)
5. Raikkonen 0.36s (-)
6. Pic 0.32s (-)
7. Maldonado 0.19s (-)
8. Di Resta 0.15s (-)
9. Rosberg 0.1s (0.091s)
10.Alonso 0.07s (-)
11.Button 0.06s (-)

[Vesuvius]

After Monaco (Monaco difference)

1. Bianchi 0.64s (-)
2. Hulkenberg 0.58s (-)
3. Ricciardo 0.43s (-)
4. Vettel 0.4s (0.201s)
5. Raikkonen 0.36s (-)
6. Pic 0.32s (-)
7. Maldonado 0.19s (-)
8. Di Resta 0.15s (-)
9. Rosberg 0.1s (0.091s)
10.Alonso 0.07s (-)
11.Button 0.06s (-)

Only Vettel-Webber did change? Why didn't you count others...at least q2 as it was dry in the end so everyone did dry runs.these differences are not accurate at all.

[Snic]

Thanks Tyker good to see you back

[tyker]

Only Vettel-Webber did change? Why didn't you count others...at least q2 as it was dry in the end so everyone did dry runs.these differences are not accurate at all.

The track was not fully dry in Q2 and was getting quicker by the lap so i didn't judge it as being representative, i can't really consider Bottas as being 2.6 seconds faster than Maldonado for instance, the times in Q3 were over 2 seconds faster.

[tyker]

Thanks Tyker good to see you back

You're welcome

[tyker]

After Silverstone (Silverstone difference)

1. Bianchi 0.87s (1.75s)
2. Hulkenberg 0.56s (0.498s)
3. Ricciardo 0.47s (0.603s)
4. Pic 0.32s (-)
5. Vettel 0.3s (0.009s)
6. Raikkonen 0.27s (-0.007)
7. Maldonado 0.184s (0.152s)
8. Alonso 0.179s (0.392s)
9. Di Resta 0.16s (0.172s)
10.Button 0.15s (0.433s)
11.Hamilton 0.01s (0.452s)

Edited by tyker, 29 June 2013 - 13:41.

[MeatPopsicle]

Wow, I knew Hamilton and Rosberg were close but 0.01s!?

[tyker]

Wow, I knew Hamilton and Rosberg were close but 0.01s!?

I guess not to surprising they've both shown to be excellent qualifiers during their F1 careers

Edited by tyker, 29 June 2013 - 14:27.

[tyker]

After Germany (Germany difference)

1. Bianchi 0.89s (1.035s)
2. Hulkenberg 0.6s (0.779s)
3. Ricciardo 0.54s (0.881s)
4. Pic 0.41s (0.797s)
5. Vettel 0.27s (0.107s)
6. Button 0.25s (0.664s)
7. Raikkonen 0.24s (0.107s)
8. Di Resta 0.19s (0.313s)
9. Maldonado 0.15s (-0.014s)
10.Alonso 0.1s (-0.137s)
11.Hamilton 0.04s (0.174s)

[Vesuvius]

After Germany (Germany difference)

1. Bianchi 0.89s (1.035s)
2. Hulkenberg 0.6s (0.779s)
3. Ricciardo 0.54s (0.881s)
4. Pic 0.41s (0.797s)
5. Vettel 0.27s (0.107s)
6. Button 0.25s (0.664s)
7. Raikkonen 0.24s (0.107s)
8. Di Resta 0.19s (0.313s)
9. Maldonado 0.15s (-0.014s)
10.Alonso 0.1s (-0.137s)
11.Hamilton 0.04s (0.174s)

funny how Maldonado can be 0.15 faster than Bottas, but quali battle is 6-3 for Valtteri, sometimes these average things don't show the whole picture.

[Seanspeed]

funny how Maldonado can be 0.15 faster than Bottas, but quali battle is 6-3 for Valtteri, sometimes these average things don't show the whole picture.

They never have. Its just an interesting statistic.

[TomNokoe]

How can Hamilton's average be 0.04?

Today.... 9 tenths
Silverstone... Hamilton by half a second
Canada.... Hamilton by half a second
Monaco Rosberg by less than a tenth
Spain Rosberg by 2 and a half tenths
Bahrain Rosberg by half a second
China Hamilton by 4 tenths
Malaysia Hamilton by 9 tenths
Australia Hamilton by half a second

Edited by TomNokoe, 06 July 2013 - 14:04.

[Zoetrope]

How can Hamilton's average be 0.04?

Today.... 9 tenths
Silverstone... Hamilton by half a second
Canada.... Hamilton by half a second
Monaco Rosberg by less than a tenth
Spain Rosberg by 2 and a half tenths
Bahrain Rosberg by half a second
China Hamilton by 4 tenths
Malaysia Hamilton by 9 tenths
Australia Hamilton by half a second

By my calculations it's:
Lewis 0.2198s faster on average.
Lewis 0.0377s faster on average when it's dry Q1/Q2/Q3.
Lewis 0.22% faster on average.
Lewis 0.03% faster on average when it's dry Q1/Q2/Q3.

Edit: Oh, and I used Q2 times for today, you obviously can't say it was 9 tenths today.

Edited by Zoetrope, 06 July 2013 - 14:17.

[tyker]

funny how Maldonado can be 0.15 faster than Bottas, but quali battle is 6-3 for Valtteri, sometimes these average things don't show the whole picture.

I only use dry qualifying sessions

[tyker]

How can Hamilton's average be 0.04?

Today.... 9 tenths
Silverstone... Hamilton by half a second
Canada.... Hamilton by half a second
Monaco Rosberg by less than a tenth
Spain Rosberg by 2 and a half tenths
Bahrain Rosberg by half a second
China Hamilton by 4 tenths
Malaysia Hamilton by 9 tenths
Australia Hamilton by half a second

I only use dry qualifying sessions and sessions were both drivers competed in

[tyker]

By my calculations it's:
Lewis 0.2198s faster on average.
Lewis 0.0377s faster on average when it's dry Q1/Q2/Q3.
Lewis 0.22% faster on average.
Lewis 0.03% faster on average when it's dry Q1/Q2/Q3.

Edit: Oh, and I used Q2 times for today, you obviously can't say it was 9 tenths today.

So rounded up you have Hamilton 0.04s quicker than Rosberg in the dry sessions same as me?

[Zoetrope]

So rounded up you have Hamilton 0.04s quicker than Rosberg in the dry sessions same as me?

Yes. Wet qualifying produce too high variations.

If anyone wants to have their own spreadsheet, you can download mine from here Spreadsheet.

[rmpugh]

I think the differences really show that Chilton shouldn't be anywhere near F1. Just because he has a rich dad, shouldn't be enough to get an F1 seat. I was massively surprised yesterday when I saw that Bianchi was ONLY just over half a second quicker. Then I found out that Bianchi had a stomach bug and shouldn't have really been in the car at all. Yet still over half a second quicker.

[g1n]

I think the differences really show that Chilton shouldn't be anywhere near F1. Just because he has a rich dad, shouldn't be enough to get an F1 seat. I was massively surprised yesterday when I saw that Bianchi was ONLY just over half a second quicker. Then I found out that Bianchi had a stomach bug and shouldn't have really been in the car at all. Yet still over half a second quicker.

Yes, Chilton is really out of his depths in F1 and having a fast team mate does not help either.

[tyker]

Yes. Wet qualifying produce too high variations.

If anyone wants to have their own spreadsheet, you can download mine from here Spreadsheet.

Yes you've done it exactly the same as me

[tyker]

I think the differences really show that Chilton shouldn't be anywhere near F1. Just because he has a rich dad, shouldn't be enough to get an F1 seat. I was massively surprised yesterday when I saw that Bianchi was ONLY just over half a second quicker. Then I found out that Bianchi had a stomach bug and shouldn't have really been in the car at all. Yet still over half a second quicker.

Bianchi missed FP1 as well, also it was said that Chilton didn't bother doing a soft tyre qualifying run but concentrated on a race set up instead, so he's sort of given up on trying to out qualify Bianchi.

[Seanspeed]

Bianchi missed FP1 as well, also it was said that Chilton didn't bother doing a soft tyre qualifying run but concentrated on a race set up instead, so he's sort of given up on trying to out qualify Bianchi.

That's pretty awful.

At least he'll be able to say he drove in F1 at one point.

[kedia990]

Bianchi missed FP1 as well, also it was said that Chilton didn't bother doing a soft tyre qualifying run but concentrated on a race set up instead, so he's sort of given up on trying to out qualify Bianchi.

Shouldn't all back runners be doing that? Not like they can achieve anything on Saturday anyway.

[Schumacher7]

Shouldn't all back runners be doing that? Not like they can achieve anything on Saturday anyway.

Well if they can sneak into Q2 it's good publicity isn't it.

[tyker]

After Hungary (Hungary difference)

1. Bianchi 0.8s (0.21s)
2. Hulkenberg 0.62s (0.696s)
3. Ricciardo 0.53s (0.502s)
4. Pic 0.4s (0.326s)
5. Vettel 0.27s (-)
6. Button 0.17s (-0.232s)
7. Raikkonen 0.15s (-0.256s)
8. Maldonado 0.13s (0.002s)
9. Alonso 0.11s (0.138s)
10.Hamilton 0.08s (0.332s)
11.Di Resta 0.06s (-0.572s)

[marcoferrari]

After Germany (Germany difference)

1. Bianchi 0.89s (1.035s)
2. Hulkenberg 0.6s (0.779s)
3. Ricciardo 0.54s (0.881s)
4. Pic 0.41s (0.797s)
5. Vettel 0.27s (0.107s)
6. Button 0.25s (0.664s)
7. Raikkonen 0.24s (0.107s)
8. Di Resta 0.19s (0.313s)
9. Maldonado 0.15s (-0.014s)
10.Alonso 0.1s (-0.137s)
11.Hamilton 0.04s (0.174s)

Strange... Probably you have missed a fact that Sutil COULD NOT use his DRS? (4-5 tenths advantage)... Just look at the times from all Nurburgring seasons before qualifying, DiResta was nowhere as he is here in Hungary, too... And did you count also Monaco and Canada qualifyings?

Edited by marcoferrari, 27 July 2013 - 13:46.