293 replies to this topic

[RedBaron]

The BBC are massively exaggerating everything Schumacher does. It makes a good story I guess.

Schumacher had a reasonable race considering he was disadvantaged on lap 3(?). He moved over allowing Petrov through - just. But Petrov was overshooting the corner so badly to the surprise of Schumacher that he didn't realise just how much room he needed to give Petrov and got hit. Schumacher's fault as he misjudged it, but still not a major blotch like some of his defending was in 2010. After that Schumacher had some great battles - most of which he won, his overtaking and ability to hang on the edge hasn't wavered. Some great moves.

Rosberg had a good race but went backwards - didn't keep his tyres in as good condition as his team-mare in the same car which thwarted his speed and ability to keep up. I don't see how people can say Rosberg got the maximum out of his strategy... Hamilton started behind him and had a horrible pitstop yet still finished ahead of Rosberg.

Mercedes need to sort out their high fuel pace. Schumacher may defend to harshly when being overtaken, Rosberg doesn't defend enough. Issue that could be improved all round on race day. Schumacher needs to qualifying further up and bash in the lap when it counts so he doesn't have to battle with those guys in midfield.

[Szoelloe]

And he was doing battle with the monkeys at the back because he turned in on Petrov. There's being aggressive and then there's being boneheaded. Today he was the latter. As I've said, he has noone to blame but himself.

Sorry mate I don't want to defend him, he was the one who decided on coming back, and he should take the trash, but I have seen at least three overtakes where the car overtaken broke out of steering in a similar way. It may not be fully his mistake. He should have let go though. It was too early in the race, and I think he did not realize yet the Renaults were 0,5s faster anyway.

[SparkPlug]

To be honest I think both Petrov and Sutil were at fault for those two moves on Schumacher.

Petrov, well there was no way he was going to make that corner and basically straightlined it there. I am surprised he didnt get a penalty for that utterly stupid move. Same with Sutil, he just barged his way past there it was certainly questionable as far as I can see.

His move on Kobayashi was uncalled for, however. Schumacher hung him out on the grass on a high speed straight. That is something I dont agree with.

[VresiBerba]

The BBC are massively exaggerating everything Schumacher does. It makes a good story I guess.

Schumacher had a reasonable race considering he was disadvantaged on lap 3(?). He moved over allowing Petrov through - just. But Petrov was overshooting the corner so badly to the surprise of Schumacher that he didn't realise just how much room he needed to give Petrov and got hit.

You know, it's absolutely amazing that you can even say Shumi 'got hit' by Petrov. How can Petrov 'hit' anyone, with his right REAR tire, turning left Shumi turned into Petrov and ruined his front-wing, anything else is in Narnia-territory.

Edited by VresiBerba, 09 May 2011 - 01:00.

[RedBaron]

You know, it's absolutely amazing that you can even say Shumi 'got hit' by Petrov. How can Pertov 'hit' anyone, with his right REAR tire, turning left Shumi turned into Petrov and ruined his front-wing, anything else is in Narnia-territory.

Who cares... he hit Petrov then. I've worded incorrectly I'm happy to correct it. If you want to focus on my wording like a baboon you can. It's not like I blamed it on Petrov it's clearly an error on Schumacher's part.

Your pathetic attempts to cause an argument with me have failed. Sorry to dash your hopes, next.

[VresiBerba]

To be honest I think both Petrov and Sutil were at fault for those two moves on Schumacher.

Well, it's no surprise really, even our own commentator (Sweden) said that "Petrov HIT Shumi". I mean, if a seasoned motorsport commentator can say that on national television, I'm equally not surprised that Shumi-fans on a forum can say the same thing. But how anyone on this planet can actually see Petrov HITTING Shumi, with his right rear tire, going left, and HIT Shumi, I guess... well, I can't even begin to fathom what's going on, much less guess what you guys are thinking.

Edited by VresiBerba, 08 May 2011 - 18:39.

[BRK]

Well, it's no surprise really, even our own commentator (Sweden) said that "Pertov HIT Shumi". I mean, if a seasoned motorsport commentator can say that on national television, I'm equally not surprised that Shumi-fans on a forum can say the same thing. But how anyone on this planet can actually see Petrov HIT Shumi, with his right rear tire, going left, and HIT Shumi, I guess... well, I can't even begin to fathom, much less guess what those guys are thinking.

Because a nobody on an internet forum would know more than a commentator.

[VresiBerba]

Because a nobody on an internet forum would know more than a commentator.

So Petrov DID hit Shumi with his right rear tire going left? Amazing. Say, how is that even possible without Petrov going in reverse, but I suppose when you say that Petrov WAS going in reverse, the issue would settled, and strangely, I would actually accept that.

[JVi]

Petrov never turned left; drove straight, as if in an "Arrows", and cut across the other idiot's wing, who in turn (no pun intended) will never learn to avoid such circumstances given the old dog syndrome he is solidly entrenched in.

[VresiBerba]

He's also far too professional to moan to the media or complain even if he did, preferring instead to get on with it.

Really? Shumi would 'get on with it' even if he knew 'old enemies' were sabotaging him in the team. Scheisse! I knew Shumi could take a few on the 'chin', but... wow

[VresiBerba]

Petrov never turned left; drove straight, as if in an "Arrows", and cut across the other idiot's wing...

Excuse me, but what?! Speaking or arrows, the below image I just made, CLEARLY shows that Pervov DID turn left (see GREEN arrow) and that if he would have been going straight (see YELLOW arrow), he wouldn't have touched the apex (see RED arrow).




Shumi steered right into Petrov, yet some people here, including our beloved (Shumi-lover EXTRAordinare) Swedish commentator says that Petrov HIT Shumi. I mean, really, is this Petrov HITTING Shumi?!?! DoubleyouTeeEff

Edited by VresiBerba, 08 May 2011 - 18:27.

[JVi]

The only thing Schumacher didn't bang today was his head against the pitwall.

... not that anyone saw.

And, from watching the ongoing replay on SPEED (in painfully slow motion), Petrov has more chance of becoming the next Pope (as does Schumacher, btw) than to have made that turn. As I said, two racing idiots. The way they are going, a Darwinian Award is a definite possibility.

[VresiBerba]

...Petrov has more chance of becoming the next Pope (as does Schumacher, btw) than to have made that turn. As I said, two racing idiots.

Eh, Petrov was HIT by Shumi, that's why he didn't 'make the turn'. But who am I kidding here, I feel like an idiot, standing and praying before a wall, a wall that does nothing in return.

Petrov never turned left...

[Birelman]

Eh, Petrov was HIT by Shumi, that's why he didn't 'make the turn'. But who am I kidding here, I feel like an idiot, standing and praying before a wall, a wall that does nothing in return.

Haha, are you actually trying to convince Schumilovers that Schumacher did something wrong?

[ClubmanGT]

Haha, are you actually trying to convince Schumilovers that Schumacher did something wrong?

Schumacher hit Petrov after Petrov had locked up and almost come to a standstill, but that makes it wore IMHO.

Rosberg is really driving well.

[michaelarwas]

Excuse me, but what?! Speaking or arrows, the below image I just made, CLEARLY shows that Pervov DID turn left (see GREEN arrow) and that if he would have been going straight (see YELLOW arrow), he wouldn't have touched the apex (see RED arrow).




Shumi steered right into Petrov, yet some people here, including our beloved (Shumi-lover EXTRAordinare) Swedish commentator says that Petrov HIT Shumi. I mean, really, is this Petrov HITTING Shumi?!?! DoubleyouTeeEff

Clearly you have never driven a single seater racing car with downforce. If you had you would know that Petrov's abiliy to make that corner was not neccessarily dictated by front grip but rather by rear grip. If Petrov had turned into the apex i assure you he would have in all liklihood had to correct rear locking. As is obvious, Petrov angled his car towards the corner, which in the circumstances, was the best thing he could have done considering that he had effecrively outbraked himself. They both did well to slow down as much as they did considering they both applied steering lock under heavy breaking. Michael's problem was that he failed to recognise that he had made the apex but Petrov hadn't. To this extent he is also at fault.

As some others have said it was a racing incident, but people using it as an example of Schumi being past it is just plainly false. Everyone that is bashing Schumi today are also overlooking the fact that his race pace was as good, if not better, than Rosbergs. However, if he insists on qualifying at the lower end of the top 10 then he needs to realise that drivers like Petrov have a lot less to lose than someone like Button or Alonso. Accordingly he should give more room when drivers like Petrov banzai up the inside.

Edited by michaelarwas, 08 May 2011 - 22:36.

[VresiBerba]

Schumacher hit Petrov after Petrov had locked up and almost come to a standstill...

Mmmm, no.

[VresiBerba]

Clearly you have never driven a single seater racing car with downforce.

Yeah, well, by the way you're responding to my post, neither have you. Fact is, Petrov did NOT hit Shumi, he did not have opposite steer-lock, he did not go into the corner sideways, in fact Petrov had everything under control going into that corner, until Shumi hit him. End of story. What the fact that I have never driven single-seaters with downforce have anything of any kind to do with Shumi hitting Petrov or not, I have absolutely no clue whatsoever, though.

[michaelarwas]

Yeah, well, by the way you're responding to my post, neither have you. Fact is, Petrov did NOT hit Shumi, he did not have opposite steer-lock, he did not go into the corner sideways, in fact Petrov had everything under control going into that corner, until Shumi hit him. End of story. What the fact that I have never driven single-seaters with downforce have anything of any kind to do with Shumi hitting Petrov or not, I have absolutely no clue whatsoever, though.

Well you would be wrong because i have. You have also completely failed to understand my post and are responding accordingly. Petrov did not hit Schumi, i never said he did. He didn't have to countersteer because he didnt turn in to the apex, again as i said. At no point did i entirely blame Petrov, i described it as a racing incident. Until you decide to actually read what i post and not what you THINK i post don't bother replying.

[VresiBerba]

Well you would be wrong because i have.

Well, good for you. Have fun.

You have also completely failed to understand my post and are responding accordingly. Petrov did not hit Schumi, i never said he did.

I didn't exactly 'fail' to understand your post just because I have not driven single-seaters with downforce while you have, because none of that are in any way, shape or form related to the post you quoted. My post. The post about Petrov not hitting Shumi, was about that, and that alone. I fail, alright, to see any relevance between downforce and the debate whether Petrov hit Shumi or not. But that's the only failure on my part.

Edited by VresiBerba, 08 May 2011 - 23:02.

[puxanando]

Schumi vs petrov

Schumi

[MikeTekRacing]

Schumi vs petrov

Schumi

racing how dares he not take into account that petrov would miss his apex

[michaelarwas]

racing how dares he not take into account that petrov would miss his apex

EXACTLY. His failing was to realise that he was racing Petrov, if it had been Heidfeld there wouldn't have been contact.

Shame on Schui for trying to race wheel to wheel. You lot need to go and watch a new sport.

Edited by michaelarwas, 08 May 2011 - 23:03.

[michaelarwas]

Well, good for you. Have fun.


I didn't exactly 'fail' to understand your post just because I have not driven single-seaters with downforce while you have, because none of that are in any way, shape or form related to the post you quoted. My post. The post about Petrov not hitting Shumi, was about that, and that alone. I fail, alright, to see any relevance between downforce and the debate whether Petrov hit Shumi or not. But that's the only failure on my part.

It relates because sometimes you can pick up on things, like for example, why Petrov failed to make his apex when schumi did. It's not like i'm even trying to blame Petrov, i am just saying it was a racing incident. You Schumi bashers just want to try and turn everything into his fault and for some reason i cannot fathom, enjoy trying to humiliate the greatest driver in history. You also failed to account for the fact that Michael's race pace was better than ROS until the last stint.

[VresiBerba]

racing how dares he not take into account that petrov would miss his apex

Do you even know what 'apex' is? Look at the picture I posted earlier, look at the tyre marks in the asphalt, look at the red arrow; there is the apex! The reason Petrov continued forward after Shumi hit him, is, well, kind of self-explanatory since Shumi launched Petrov's right rear tyre into the air, and right rear mechanical grip is kind of useful when you're turning left.

[MikeTekRacing]

Do you even know what 'apex' is? Look at the picture I posted earlier, look at the tyre marks in the asphalt, look at the red arrow; there is the apex! The reason Petrov continued forward after Shumi hit him, is, well, kind of self-explanatory since Shumi launched Petrov's right rear tyre into the air, and right rear mechanical grip is kind of useful when you're turning left.

when you are on the outside you should leave a car's width on the inside and not turn in pretending nobody is there

when you are on the inside you should drive slow enough to fit that gap and not run wide into the other car.

there was a car's width, there is surely a better angle of that moment. you could clearly see petrov going wider.
you can pretend space once you're on the inside but you have to be capable of holding that line. the outside car should not be forced to give you "all track"

[michaelarwas]

when you are on the outside you should leave a car's width on the inside and not turn in pretending nobody is there

when you are on the inside you should drive slow enough to fit that gap and not run wide into the other car.

there was a car's width, there is surely a better angle of that moment. you could clearly see petrov going wider.
you can pretend space once you're on the inside but you have to be capable of holding that line. the outside car should not be forced to give you "all track"

Precisely. If it was the other way round they would all be calling Schumi the idiot for making a 'dangerous' move and not giving Petrov any room around the outside. How dare Schumacher run over Petrovs nose.

[Alfisti]

The schumi defenders are smoking crack re. the Petrov incident. Seriously, pull the other one. Schumi keeps pushing Petrov left until Petrov has no room at all, there's no way he weas gonna hit the apex because schumi pushed him so far off line.

Absolute dog of a move of the highest order, turning into a right arse now he's not in a front running car.

[VresiBerba]

when you are on the outside you should leave a car's width on the inside and not turn in pretending nobody is there

when you are on the inside you should drive slow enough to fit that gap and not run wide into the other car.

Petrov didn't run wide, he just didn't! He was hit by Shumi because Shumi turned into Petrov. This is another Kafkaesque moment, twice in as many weeks here on this forum. If you honestly blame Petrov for even 0.00001 per cent for that contact, there's really not much more that can be said here. I pity you, I actually do.

Edited by VresiBerba, 09 May 2011 - 00:03.

[engel]

molehill meet mountain, Schumacher opened the door, misjudged how quick Petrov would clear the corner and turned in too soon. Petrov was slower, probably cause he was way too late on the brakes and way off line.Whoop Dee-Freakin' Doo

[jimm]

EXACTLY. His failing was to realise that he was racing Petrov, if it had been Heidfeld there wouldn't have been contact.

Shame on Schui for trying to race wheel to wheel. You lot need to go and watch a new sport.

I have had single seater experience with downforce.

The guy on the outside is in the weaker position and must yield. Does not mean the guy on the inside can push him completely off the track but positioning the car so it delays the outside guy from turning in is acceptable practice. Petrov do go in a little hot but was not out of control. Certainly no worse than what MS has done over the years to others.

[Raelene]

molehill meet mountain, Schumacher opened the door, misjudged how quick Petrov would clear the corner and turned in too soon. Petrov was slower, probably cause he was way too late on the brakes and way off line.Whoop Dee-Freakin' Doo

[VresiBerba]

molehill meet mountain, Schumacher opened the door, misjudged how quick Petrov would clear the corner and turned in too soon. Petrov was slower, probably cause he was way too late on the brakes and way off line.Whoop Dee-Freakin' Doo

A microsecond before Shumi hit Petrov (the image below), neither driver was 'way off line'. In fact, Petrov was bang-on the apex when this screenshot was taken, and I remind you, it's a microsecond before contact. The location of Petrov's car is in 99 per cent where a car should be, going into that corner, so why Shumi thought it was a good idea to aim for that same location, especially seeing how far ahead Petrov was of Shumi, is, well... perplexing, to say the least. How anyone on this planet can say that Petrov HIT Shumi, is however not, perplexing. I don't think any term or any word has actually been invented for such an historically unlikely event. But then again...

[VresiBerba]

It isn't exactly a molehill when several Shumi-fans claim that Petrov HIT Shumi, though, is it. That's outright hysterical, beyond - nay - way, WAY beyond even the slightest hint of common sense. I'm actually having a hard time believing what I'm reading.


Edit: But then again. This reminds me of Monaco 2004, where Shumi-fans blamed Montoya for Shumi turning into... ta-da; Montoya. Or Vettel-fans, blaming Webber, incedently at the same place, same corner, same stupidity, last year. Some even suggested that when Vettel twirled his finger at his head, that it was a sign for the crane-driver to lift Vettel's car away. It's comic-relief, it's - unphathomople. The Flying Circus, is outcircused. Outstomped on, with a ten times more giant foot. Really. It is.

Edited by VresiBerba, 09 May 2011 - 00:48.

[michaelarwas]

molehill meet mountain, Schumacher opened the door, misjudged how quick Petrov would clear the corner and turned in too soon. Petrov was slower, probably cause he was way too late on the brakes and way off line.Whoop Dee-Freakin' Doo

Exactly. "Way off line". I am not defending Schumi, he turned in too early, simple as. But it wouldnt have happened if Petrov wasnt so GP2 esquely desperate to make the pass and breaked at the usual point.

[michaelarwas]

A microsecond before Shumi hit Petrov (the image below), neither driver was 'way off line'. In fact, Petrov was bang-on the apex when this screenshot was taken, and I remind you, it's a microsecond before contact. The location of Petrov's car is in 99 per cent where a car should be, going into that corner, so why Shumi thought it was a good idea to aim for that same location, especially seeing how far ahead Petrov was of Shumi, is, well... perplexing, to say the least. How anyone on this planet can say that Petrov HIT Shumi, is however not, perplexing. I don't think any term or any word has actually been invented for such an historically unlikely event. But then again...

Honestly, if you really think Petrov was on the apex there and was going to continue to make it you need a lesson in racing lines. There was no way in hell Petrov was going to make the apex. That DOESNT however mean he wasnt going to make the corner. Two different things, learn it.

[black magic]

dumb dumb move on petrov but to suggest as brundle and coulthard did that he cant hack wheel to wheel just serves to emphasise their dislike of him and seeming joy at putting th eboot in when able. did they forget the previous race? did they forget korea and in the wet? did they miss him getting petrove down the inside despite being on the low grip side?

has there ever been a more assinine comments man than coulthard - yes

sorry but martin and david have not been fans from way back and their rush to slight the guy is no reflection on them.

I do agree though that looks like over driving is his issue and that may reflect that for michael 42 is too old

sadly all the drivers aids make the driver being overtaken lookk like a patsy they are so relatively defenseless. rosberg looked weak and for me drs is making it too easy - get close and its all over but I can accept some think its the best thing ever.

[Raelene]

It isn't exactly a molehill when several Shumi-fans claim that Petrov HIT Shumi, though, is it. That's outright hysterical, beyond - nay - way, WAY beyond even the slightest hint of common sense. I'm actually having a hard time believing what I'm reading.


Edit: But then again. This reminds me of Monaco 2004, where Shumi-fans blamed Montoya for Shumi turning into... ta-da; Montoya. Or Vettel-fans, blaming Webber, incedently at the same place, same corner, same stupidity, last year. Some even suggested that when Vettel twirled his finger at his head, that it was a sign for the crane-driver to lift Vettel's car away. It's comic-relief, it's - unphathomople. The Flying Circus, is outcircused. Outstomped on, with a ten times more giant foot. Really. It is.

Well it's only a few - not lots, and it was a racing incident - silly move by MS, completely his fault IMO - but the detractors are the ones that are making more of it than it was - calling for his retirement, anyone would think that no ohter driver has had a bad day before.

The trolls just like to jump on any mistake by Schumacher and make it more than it really is... I dokn't see calls for Petrov to retire after his "tangle" with Heidfeld....

Edited by Raelene, 09 May 2011 - 01:53.

[tyker]

Do you even know what 'apex' is? Look at the picture I posted earlier, look at the tyre marks in the asphalt, look at the red arrow; there is the apex! The reason Petrov continued forward after Shumi hit him, is, well, kind of self-explanatory since Shumi launched Petrov's right rear tyre into the air, and right rear mechanical grip is kind of useful when you're turning left.

Pretty damning evidence against Schumacher and i believe the contact with Petrov's rear wheel would have prevented his car from turning left

[exmayol]

Michael hit VP, simple as that. Very costly mistake. However before claiming that VP did not run please see a the replay from a different angle.

[Raelene]

hmm, that is an interesting angle......

[tormave]

Michael hit VP, simple as that. Very costly mistake. However before claiming that VP did not run please see a the replay from a different angle.

Thanks for that. That clip shows clearly that in fact Michael hit Petrov twice. The first bump with the left front tyre on the Petrov's right rear tyre caused Petrov to miss the corner even further as his car turned right on impact. Having turned into Petrov already once, MS then proceeded to attempt same for a second time, this time detaching his own FW against the same tyre in Petrov's car. A real rookie mistake this one: especially after the 1st collision MS simply must've been aware that there was something between him and the corner apex...

Edited by tormave, 09 May 2011 - 03:35.

[Konsta]

Somehow this brings Jerez 97 back to mind. There is absolutely no way that MS could not have seen VP just beside him and yet he turned straight to him. He did not even try to go straight to avoid the impact but decided to play rough. Cost him dearly.

Schumi thinks that he still can intimidate others and get away with it - sorry, he might be respected (deservedly) but feared he is not anymore.

[Dodi_napalm]

Petrov is going to miss the corner 100%. Schoo shoud brake and let him pass and then gain the position back. "Racing blood" sindrom - you shoud not pass!!

[RedBaron]

Somehow this brings Jerez 97 back to mind. There is absolutely no way that MS could not have seen VP just beside him and yet he turned straight to him. He did not even try to go straight to avoid the impact but decided to play rough. Cost him dearly.

Schumi thinks that he still can intimidate others and get away with it - sorry, he might be respected (deservedly) but feared he is not anymore.

Haha oh my word. You trolls really do have a whole office full of staff. Some of you are trained in qualifying trolling, some in Schumacher contract rumors and obviously you Konsta are trained as a race collision troll.

Absolutely absurd. You're well on for a bonus at the end of the year. A troll slipping Jerez 1997 into a post is hot stuff amongst your kind.

[Henrik B]

Petrov is going to miss the corner 100%.

Actually, he wasn't. Watch the video or the gif above. Petrov slows down well enough to make the corner without problems, it's Schumachers tapping that causes him to go off to the right.

Infact, given Alonsos penalty for hitting Hamilton, Schumacher should probably gotten one aswell but I wont lose any sleep over that he didn't.

[RedBaron]

Actually, he wasn't. Watch the video or the gif above. Petrov slows down well enough to make the corner without problems, it's Schumachers tapping that causes him to go off to the right.

Wrong, simple as that.

This is the point of contact:



You can see Petrov has already missed the corner as Schumacher gives his wheel a kiss (he never actually hits the mark on the apex VresiBerba has arrows in a few posts above). As you can see from the animated version of this image at that same point Petrov is still carrying a great deal of speed, if anything the bump tapped him slightly to the right and scrubbed off some speed helping him slow down overshooting less than he actually did.

Edited by RedBaron, 09 May 2011 - 06:56.

[Henrik B]

Wrong, simple as that.

He goes in pretty hot, but he brakes very hard and is going rather slow when Schumacher nearly turns him. He would have no problem staying within the track limits, and that's a fact.

[Henrik B]

Wrong, simple as that.

This is the point of contact:

No, it's a millisecond or two AFTER contact, when his trajectory had already been altered by Schumacher.

Edit: It might be at the contact. He gets turned a bit more after that. But that trajectory at that still would still enable him to make the corner.

You and I might have different definitions about what a "missed" corner is. It's not a optimal corner, how can it be when MS is on the outside, but he is going to make it alright well within the track limit.

Edited by Henrik B, 09 May 2011 - 07:05.

[Beyond]

there's no reason in trying to support one or another point. the truth is actually both: petrov went a bit straight AND michael didn't see that and closed too much. on the other hand he said himself he was wrong there. bit of a silly mistake that ruins a race, at least he was next to the pits.