81 replies to this topic

[jonnoj]

The old red mist ...

Stefan Mücke vs Richard Westbrook - Retaliation ends with big crash 2011 FIA GT1 at Silverstone

The result of the FIA Stewards regarding the incident between Stefan
Mucke and Richard Westbrook was -
- Richard Westbrook caused a collision with car #8 and receives a drop
of 3 grid places suspended for 3 events (Decision no16)
- Stefan Mucke caused an avoidable collision (Decision no 15) and
decided:
1. The suspended Decision No15 from Zolder (drop of 5 grid places) is
withdrawn
2. A drop of 10 grid positions for the next race the driver, Stefan
Mucke, takes the start.
3. To report the driver, Stefan Mucke, to his ASN (DMSB) in
consequence of his behaviour in this event with the recommendation to
withdraw his driving licence immediately and act accordingly.

[Don_Humpador]

3. To report the driver, Stefan Mucke, to his ASN (DMSB) in
consequence of his behaviour in this event with the recommendation to
withdraw his driving licence immediately and act accordingly.

Youch.

[OfficeLinebacker]

[Dunder]

Good stewarding IMHO.

No excuses, you just cannot do that. Will be interested to see what the DMSB do, I know that they have had issues with the FIA before.

[iotar]

What a true racer, went for the gap that was there, unfairly penalized by biased stewards.

Seriously, what a dummy.

[ferrarijon123]

Thats a horrible bit of driving

[Scotracer]

He definitely didn't mean to hit him....but it was still stupidity of the highest degree.

[froggy22]

did he think he was playing Forza motorsport and he could just bump him off the track and carry on??

[Dunder]

He definitely didn't mean to hit him....but it was still stupidity of the highest degree.

I would be interested to know what you base that on.
There are two distinct steering wheel movements to the left.

[midgrid]

Suspend Mucke's licence for one week, so he misses Le Mans and quite possibly gets dropped from his Aston Martin factory drive. That should teach him a lesson.

[Disgrace]

He definitely didn't mean to hit him....but it was still stupidity of the highest degree.

He didn't mean to make wheel-to-wheel contact that flicked him in the air. If he had swiped him, bodywork-to-bodywork as I suspect he intended, I doubt there would have been much of a deal made of it. But the relative speed of them meant anything could've happened.

[Zatoichi]

I would be interested to know what you base that on.
There are two distinct steering wheel movements to the left.

The wheel is just trembling a lot, it doesn't look like a distinctive move to the left to me. I think he just wanted to drive close by and show him his fist for spinning him off the track earlier. Unfortunately he miscalculated the distance and hit him. Still a very dumb thing to do, but I also think he didn't ram him on purpose, so speaking of "retaliation" is IMO wrong.

[primer]

The old red mist ...

Stefan Mücke vs Richard Westbrook - Retaliation ends with big crash 2011 FIA GT1 at Silverstone

Poor execution, I think we can all agree? It is as if these drivers have learned nothing by watching police chase videos, cannot even crash their rivals properly.

Edited by primer, 06 June 2011 - 16:17.

[pRy]

At worst he was just trying to pull up along side him and gesture .. you can see his left hand moving up and down.. i'll let you fill in the blank. However he has under estimated how close he was and they've touched.

But reading some comments on twitter and else where, anyone would think the car he hit barrel rolled several times and ended up in the spectators and the driver was on life support. Some serious over reacting going on.

[dank]

The wheel is just trembling a lot, it doesn't look like a distinctive move to the left to me. I think he just wanted to drive close by and show him his fist for spinning him off the track earlier. Unfortunately he miscalculated the distance and hit him. Still a very dumb thing to do, but I also think he didn't ram him on purpose, so speaking of "retaliation" is IMO wrong.

I agree with this.

Tremendously stupid and one that he should be penalised for, if only to show others not to vent their anger out on the track.

For anyone to say he clouted Westbrook on purpose is just plain daft.

[Viktor]

At worst he was just trying to pull up along side him and gesture .. you can see his left hand moving up and down.. i'll let you fill in the blank. However he has under estimated how close he was and they've touched.

But reading some comments on twitter and else where, anyone would think the car he hit barrel rolled several times and ended up in the spectators and the driver was on life support. Some serious over reacting going on.

Looking at the video it looks like he also took a shortcut on the track to get to Westbrook to "retaliate". Defenetly more then just pulling up along side him.

/Viktor

[dank]

Looking at the video it looks like he also took a shortcut on the track to get to Westbrook to "retaliate". Defenetly more then just pulling up along side him.

/Viktor

Mucke was punted off at Becketts and took the quickest route to resume running on the track.

I saw it for myself as I was sat in the Becketts grandstand at the time.

[Atreiu]

What a true racer, went for the gap that was there, unfairly penalized by biased stewards.

Seriously, what a dummy.

[pRy]

Looking at the video it looks like he also took a shortcut on the track to get to Westbrook to "retaliate". Defenetly more then just pulling up along side him.

/Viktor

The way I saw that is he just wanted to get back onto the track as quickly as possible after having been punted off. He then sees the person that did it and decides to drive along side and let him know what he thinks of him (like F1 drivers do virtually every race with back markers) and they've touched. I don't see it as a 'There he is, let's put him in hospital!!!!!' moment.

[OfficeLinebacker]

So what's worse?

Intentionally taking out a competitor who just spun you out, sacrificing your own car to do so

-or-

so monstrously flubbing the swerving drive-by/sideswipe/hand gesture move that you crash yourself and your opponent out of the race

?

[jonnoj]

He definitely didn't mean to hit him....but it was still stupidity of the highest degree.

Look at the video around 1.30 in. The moron swerves across the track.

[Atreiu]

Has JPM retaliated on that yet?

[dank]

Look at the video around 1.30 in. The moron swerves across the track.

The result of only having one hand on the wheel down the fastest part of the circuit.

[Afterburner]

So what's worse?

Intentionally taking out a competitor who just spun you out, sacrificing your own car to do so

-or-

so monstrously flubbing the swerving drive-by/sideswipe/hand gesture move that you crash yourself and your opponent out of the race

?

I'd say they're about the same, to be honest. You end up making a pretty big fool out of yourself either way, so there's not much difference in that respect.

[R2D2]

Poor execution, I think we can all agree? It is as if these drivers have learned nothing by watching police chase videos, cannot even crash their rivals properly.

Yeah, the nutters in BTCC know how to do it right!

[OfficeLinebacker]

Has JPM retaliated on that yet?

Thanks for asking!

He sure did, same race!

[Atreiu]

Then it's Even Stephens.

[Unbiased]

What a true racer, went for the gap that was there, unfairly penalized by biased stewards.

Seriously, what a dummy.

Agreed, that's true racing, stewards try to forbid racing it seems with these penalties.

I hope he also spoke his mind after the race to the media how he jokingly was the stewards target because he was driving the wrong color car and how all the other divers are just ridiculous, it's stupid.

[skinnyman]

The wheel is just trembling a lot, it doesn't look like a distinctive move to the left to me. I think he just wanted to drive close by and show him his fist for spinning him off the track earlier. Unfortunately he miscalculated the distance and hit him. Still a very dumb thing to do, but I also think he didn't ram him on purpose, so speaking of "retaliation" is IMO wrong.

+1

[glorius&victorius]

looking from the inboard... it looked like a poorly executed side by side action to gesticulate... from the outside you would think deliberately steered into him..
maybe he wanted to pass him and cut him off... but misjudged..

[Viktor]

The way I saw that is he just wanted to get back onto the track as quickly as possible after having been punted off. He then sees the person that did it and decides to drive along side and let him know what he thinks of him (like F1 drivers do virtually every race with back markers) and they've touched. I don't see it as a 'There he is, let's put him in hospital!!!!!' moment.

Correct you are, after looking at the clip again I see it now. Did not relies the first time that the Nissan was so slow down hangar after the incident.

/Viktor

[engel]

I agree it wasn't deliberate like that Montoya stunt but it was still very very dumb driving

[alfa1]

The old red mist ...

The way I'm seeing it, he's waving his fist (left hand) and only steering with one hand.
Probably looking at that car as well and steered a leeeetle too close.
Not deliberate. He woulda used two hands.

[PLAYLIFE]

Apalling behaviour. You just don't do this kind of thing on a race track, anything goes a little wrong and there will be some serious injuries.

Despite being worse, it reminded me of the Skaife/Ingall incident a few years ago:



Imagine of Rusty had lost control when he swerved towards Skaife, hate to imagine the consequences.

[teejay]

But look how early Massa turned in...

Oh wait, wrong argument

[Kelateboy]

did he think he was playing Forza motorsport and he could just bump him off the track and carry on??

He was thinking like Webber did in 2010 Singapore GP, dive bombing into the corner and bouncing off Lewis Hamilton in the process.

[teejay]

Ill all seriousness though, what an incredible mucke up

[Ise]

Intentional or not, he still caused a ridiculous shunt that wasn't even nessacery from the start. Why he couldn't keep his hand to himself is anyones guess.

[dank]

Intentional or not, he still caused a ridiculous shunt that wasn't even nessacery from the start. Why he couldn't keep his hand to himself is anyones guess.

Quite easy for an armchair critic to suggest, eh?

[ensign14]

Should be banned for a year. That was odious driving. Indeed it's a criminal offence - if not deliberate, then reckless (rather than negligent) behaviour resulting in battery.

[R2D2]

Looks to me like a simple case of an idiot driver wanting to go alongside and gesticulate, but not realising the aerodynamic effect of running up the side of another at such speed.

[Bloggsworth]

You could put a football pitch into the width of the Hanger Straight, it's possibly the widest one in motor racing, I've seen cars running down their 5 wide without hitting each other.

[seahawk]

That is racing and that is what people want to see. Not some emotionfree robots. I say give him a penalty , but let him keep the licencse.

[Dunder]

That is racing and that is what people want to see. Not some emotionfree robots. I say give him a penalty , but let him keep the licencse.

Racing? Westbrook was crawling back to the pits.

[Tsarwash]

He was performing a ruder gesture than just waving his fist at the other blokey, wasn't he ? Stupid bloke anyhow.

[BRG]

He's a German, isn't he? Learned all he knows about racing tactics from a certain multiple WDC. Guilty as charged, m'lud.

[Bloggsworth]

That is racing and that is what people want to see. Not some emotionfree robots. I say give him a penalty , but let him keep the licencse.

And if someone had died................?

[seahawk]

And if someone had died................?

That is part of the sport, as are emotions and such outbursts.

[Rinehart]

Should be banned for a year. That was odious driving. Indeed it's a criminal offence - if not deliberate, then reckless (rather than negligent) behaviour resulting in battery.

Totally agree. Don't even see what he was retaliating for (yes I saw the incident with Westbrook, but so what, its racing).

[Dunder]

That is part of the sport, as are emotions and such outbursts.

............. and that is part of the reason why licenses are required, and can be suspended/withdrawn.