554 replies to this topic

[hunnylander]

What do you mean? What you are saying implies that with the DRS shut, RBR/Ferrari have as much downforce as McLaren. If that's the case, what's the point of McLaren's barn door wing? Because it means that with it closed, it's similar to the other car's, but when open it's nowhere near as efficient in shedding drag.

The McLaren is carrying a bigger drag penalty on the 'straights' [= on the DRS-On distance], than others / than iz's optimal on this track in qualy trim. Race trim might be more optimal with it.

And yes, the McLaren's DRS isn't as efficient in shedding drag as the smaller flap DSR wings, it was covered hundred times, it's a technical fact, and McLaren is doing it on purpose to have an efficient rear wing for the big majority of the race distance. Though for this track they might think even this DRS concept should be on a smaller wing, but they decided not to design such a wing.

Edited by hunnylander, 11 June 2011 - 19:01.

[F.M.]

I think Slowinfastout corrected me but i'm not sure which driver he was referring to. Didn't hear Webber mention it during his interview.

Vettel: Mark had a problem this afternoon. I think they can be able to fix it tonight but we have to wait and see.

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/92207

[Slowinfastout]

Webber is always screwed at the most inconvenient moment.. it's pretty amazing

oh, and here's Helmut Marko carrying wire-cutters lol

Edited by Slowinfastout, 11 June 2011 - 19:09.

[engel]

Webber is always screwed at the most inconvenient moment.. it's pretty amazing

oh, and here's Helmut Marko carrying wire-cutters lol

didn't Vettel have the exact same problem in Spain?

[Cenotaph]

RBR has problems with KERS, period. It affects both drivers, Vettel lost it plenty of times during races and didn't use it in qualifying in Spain. Time to lose the tinfoil hats.

[Zatoichi]

What an impeccable french he's speaking too.

That's not really surprising though, since he grew up in Monaco.

[Slowinfastout]

I was just kidding.. don't get yer undies in a twist

Someone should keep a count though.

[Ricardo F1]

In the same way people bring out Massa's accident/motivation whenever he's beat by Alonso while the reality is just that Alonso is better.

Think it's a combination of a few things to be honest, Massa isn't the same driver he was before his accident, he doesn't like the Pirelli tyres AND Alonso is better.

[Ricardo F1]

Webber is always screwed at the most inconvenient moment.. it's pretty amazing

oh, and here's Helmut Marko carrying wire-cutters lol

Webber is screwed by not liking the Pirelli tyres and Seb being the quicker driver. Everything else is just circumstance.

[Mandzipop]

The FIA have allowed Jerome to race tomorrow, having considered the fact that he had to start with a new chassis this morning.

[asmodeo]

The FIA have allowed Jerome to race tomorrow, having considered the fact that he had to start with a new chassis this morning.

Again FIA is a joke

[Muppetmad]

The FIA have allowed Jerome to race tomorrow, having considered the fact that he had to start with a new chassis this morning.

Normally I am the first person to call for those outside the 107% rule to not be allowed to race, but for once I agree with the FIA. These were exceptional circumstances, and Glock qualified within the 107% rule, proving the car is capable of being at a safe pace.

[ImDDAA]

Scary thing is that Vettel did two 13.0's so it wasn't some fluke, he's got that pace consistently.

[scheivlak]

Mclaren may find themselves very vunerable to slower cars if there is a train with various cars activating their drs. They are 6 to 7 kph slower than the other top runners.

They gamble on rain, and DRS use is not allowed in rainy conditions.

[joshb]

Normally I am the first person to call for those outside the 107% rule to not be allowed to race, but for once I agree with the FIA. These were exceptional circumstances, and Glock qualified within the 107% rule, proving the car is capable of being at a safe pace.

yeah. seems like the virgins sacrifieced some pace to gamble on a full wet setup if it rains.

[VicR]

It's amazing really how few breaks Felipe gets. If you combine his best sector times it's a faster lap than Fernando's.

Felipe: 20.286, 23.381, 29.485 = 1.13.152
Fernando: 20.292, 23.404, 29.474 = 1.13.170

Oh well, P3 is a good spot.

[D.M.N.]

I think its fair to say Vettel is seriously fast no matter what circuit it is on. Surely its when, not if Vettel claims the title now.

[joshb]

I think its fair to say Vettel is seriously fast no matter what circuit it is on. Surely its when, not if Vettel claims the title now.

I remember 2006 was getting annoying until Schumacher began to cut into the lead. Too many dropped points and missed opportunites ahead to think about it, but its a nice start!

[anti]

Q Best sector times
Q lap chart

[Ricardo F1]

It's amazing really how few breaks Felipe gets. If you combine his best sector times it's a faster lap than Fernando's.

Felipe: 20.286, 23.381, 29.485 = 1.13.152
Fernando: 20.292, 23.404, 29.474 = 1.13.170

Oh well, P3 is a good spot.

How is not being able to string a perfect lap together not getting a break?

[slmk]

I think its fair to say Vettel is seriously fast no matter what circuit it is on. Surely its when, not if Vettel claims the title now.

I was actually surprised by Vettel's lap. It was nowhere near perfect. He totally missed the apex at the hairpin, locked the wheels and yet finished comfortably ahead. But.. apart from that, yeah. He's doing everything right at the moment.

[Lada Lover]

Damn you Bernie! Why can't the races and Q start at 2pm like they used to start at 2pm. I missed the Q because I thought it started at 2pm. Then to add insult the delayed Speed TV Q was blacked out. Caught the last 2 minutes live on TSN and the track looked dry. So maybe no rain tomorrow?

[Alfisti]

Damn you Bernie! Why can't the races and Q start at 2pm like they used to start at 2pm. I missed the Q because I thought it started at 2pm. Then to add insult the delayed Speed TV Q was blacked out. Caught the last 2 minutes live on TSN and the track looked dry. So maybe no rain tomorrow?

I went to the Montreal race in 2003 and was sitting in a cafe having breakfast at 11.45 then slowwwly strolled down to the track by about 12.58. Imagine my surprise when I sat down and the race started, i was staggered.

[HoldenRT]

Lewis Hamilton.. *face palm*

"I tried to use the tow of another car because we're so slow on the straight. We have the wrong gearing, so we're 10km/h - maybe more, maybe 12-13km/h - slower on the straight. So we're losing a couple of tenths just on the back straight.

7 1 Sebastian Vettel 13:09:07 320.0 
8 10 Vitaly Petrov 13:08:26 319.8 
9 5 Fernando Alonso 13:11:13 319.6 
10 9 Nick Heidfeld 13:06:08 319.5 
11 6 Felipe Massa 13:06:48 319.3 
12 2 Mark Webber 13:08:41 318.3 
13 20 Heikki Kovalainen 13:05:16 316.8 
14 21 Jarno Trulli 13:06:16 316.7 
15 4 Jenson Button 13:08:28 316.7 
16 23 Vitantonio Liuzzi 13:06:58 316.0 
17 11 Rubens Barrichello 13:09:32 315.4 
18 12 Pastor Maldonado 13:17:16 315.2 
19 3 Lewis Hamilton 13:32:05 314.5

You are 5.5 slower then Seb, and 5.1 slower then Alonso according to the speed trap. Maybe that doesn't tell the whole story (slipstream) but still.. it can't be anywhere near the numbers said in the quote.

[slmk]

Lewis Hamilton.. *face palm*

7 1 Sebastian Vettel 13:09:07 320.0 
8 10 Vitaly Petrov 13:08:26 319.8 
9 5 Fernando Alonso 13:11:13 319.6 
10 9 Nick Heidfeld 13:06:08 319.5 
11 6 Felipe Massa 13:06:48 319.3 
12 2 Mark Webber 13:08:41 318.3 
13 20 Heikki Kovalainen 13:05:16 316.8 
14 21 Jarno Trulli 13:06:16 316.7 
15 4 Jenson Button 13:08:28 316.7 
16 23 Vitantonio Liuzzi 13:06:58 316.0 
17 11 Rubens Barrichello 13:09:32 315.4 
18 12 Pastor Maldonado 13:17:16 315.2 
19 3 Lewis Hamilton 13:32:05 314.5

You are 5.5 slower then Seb, and 5.1 slower then Alonso according to the speed trap. Maybe that doesn't tell the whole story (slipstream) but still.. it can't be anywhere near the numbers said in the quote.

I know that in Q1, when he was alone on the straight on a flying lap, the speedtrap figure was 306 kph... I even posted this as it happened.

But that was in Q1...

[Button fanatic]

I went to the Montreal race in 2003 and was sitting in a cafe having breakfast at 11.45 then slowwwly strolled down to the track by about 12.58. Imagine my surprise when I sat down and the race started, i was staggered.

What time did the race started?

[ImDDAA]

Lewis Hamilton.. *face palm*

7 1 Sebastian Vettel 13:09:07 320.0 
8 10 Vitaly Petrov 13:08:26 319.8 
9 5 Fernando Alonso 13:11:13 319.6 
10 9 Nick Heidfeld 13:06:08 319.5 
11 6 Felipe Massa 13:06:48 319.3 
12 2 Mark Webber 13:08:41 318.3 
13 20 Heikki Kovalainen 13:05:16 316.8 
14 21 Jarno Trulli 13:06:16 316.7 
15 4 Jenson Button 13:08:28 316.7 
16 23 Vitantonio Liuzzi 13:06:58 316.0 
17 11 Rubens Barrichello 13:09:32 315.4 
18 12 Pastor Maldonado 13:17:16 315.2 
19 3 Lewis Hamilton 13:32:05 314.5

You are 5.5 slower then Seb, and 5.1 slower then Alonso according to the speed trap. Maybe that doesn't tell the whole story (slipstream) but still.. it can't be anywhere near the numbers said in the quote.

10 slower than the fastest though, no?

[joshb]

Well at least we got the 'I pushed harder than I ever had' line again.
I'm surprised as Mclaren used to always have a car with good top end speed and go too much on the less downforce side of things. Have they actually set up with rain in mind or is their DRS not doing its job because it even got done by the red bulls on the speed trap

[ImDDAA]

Well at least we got the 'I pushed harder than I ever had' line again.
I'm surprised as Mclaren used to always have a car with good top end speed and go too much on the less downforce side of things. Have they actually set up with rain in mind or is their DRS not doing its job because it even got done by the red bulls on the speed trap

Not sure Vettel fans should be complaining about another driver repeating the same line...

[OfficeLinebacker]

Did any of you guys hear Jake's comment at the very end of the BBC broadcast?

"and Sebastian Vettel continues his love affair with pole"

[ImDDAA]

Did any of you guys hear Jake's comment at the very end of the BBC broadcast?

"and Sebastian Vettel continues his love affair with pole"

No but that's amazing.

[VicR]

How is not being able to string a perfect lap together not getting a break?

If you look at both virtual laps you can see both of them being faster than what they ended up setting. Neither Felipe or Alonso made a perfect lap. So yes, it's fair to say Felipe didn't catch a break as his virtual lap was waster. It just goes on and on.

[ImDDAA]

Massa can't catch a break? Wut, he's been pretty crap for quite a while, one good qualifying result doesn't effect that - if he wants to catch a break he'll need to find some more talent.

[RockyRaccoon68]

I really really fail to see how Alonso's best lap being faster than Massa's is Massa not catching a break!

Great performance from both Ferrari's, but Alonso always just seems to string together the faster lap when it really matters.

[Andy865]

apologies if this has been covered, feel free to call me an ignorant muppet.

Mclarens on wet setup or just slow? Lewis' interview seemed to suggest a lack of the former.

[Dunder]

apologies if this has been covered, feel free to call me an ignorant muppet.

Mclarens on wet setup or just slow? Lewis' interview seemed to suggest a lack of the former.

They are certainly running more wing than RBR and Ferrari but that does not constitute a wet set-up and is probably not enough on its own to explain the lack of pace.
Lewis has suggested they have their gearing too long as well but that would be so incompetent that I don't believe it.

McLaren will be better off if it is wet tomorrow but not by much, I suspect.

Edited by Dunder, 12 June 2011 - 00:12.

[ForzaGTR]

They are certainly running more wing than RBR and Ferrari but that does not constitute a wet set-up and is probably not enough on its own to explain the lack of pace.
Lewis has suggested they have their gearing too long as well but that would be so incompetent that I don't believe it.

McLaren will be better off if it is wet tomorrow but not by much, I suspect.

THIS.

The gearing excuse has to be a cover up for something else, it just seems like such a silly error to make.

[Ibsey]

Am I correct in thinking that gear ratios are locked in after FP3?

Therefore the only possibility I can throw onto Mclaren getting their gear ratio wrong is, when they added on more wing, perhaps they forgot / underestimated the knockon effect it would have had on their gear ratio? TBH I still find this suprising, since for example Nick Heidfeld also has more wing & didn't complaint about a long 7th gear.

Do we also know whether Button is suffering from a long 7th gear?

Also thinking ahead to the race, Does anyone know how long the option & prime tyres are expected to last for in the race?

Purely going on my pretty sketchy memory from Monaco, where they also used the softs & SS. I would have expected the SS to last for circa 15/20 laps & maybe the primes to last for circa 25 laps (maybe more like Vettel in Monaco?). Does anyone have any further update as to whether or not this is the case?

Assuming it is dry & given the relatively long time it takes to warm up the options, I reckon the primes might be a 'dark horse' in terms of race tyre come sunday? This of course depends on how long the tyres can last for? I am desperate to find out this info to work out possible strategies.

From my reading of FP3 & quali options "only" appeared to between 0.6 to 0.8 secs quicker than the primes (depending on car/driver), however options take at least a lap (maybe two for some drivers) to warm up to full operating temperature. So during the race the options may struggle to regain performance for a lap or two after a SC period & we may see serveral SC's during the race. Whislt, on the evidence of Rosberg's 1st lap in FP3 (where he did a 1.15.0 straightaway), Primes can be pretty quick straightaway & performance fall off appears to be better than the options. Although it has to be said perhaps the Mercs, can warm their tyres better than other cars (since they have been overheating their tyres more than other teams).

Another thought Re; option tyres. If its a wet dry race tomorrow & at some point drivers would want to try dry tyres on a damp track. Then if the primes can work quicker than the options when cooler, & is the more consistent tyre, they might be the one to be on?

Edited by Ibsey, 12 June 2011 - 01:09.

[OwenC93]

Lewis Hamilton.. *face palm*

7 1 Sebastian Vettel 13:09:07 320.0 
8 10 Vitaly Petrov 13:08:26 319.8 
9 5 Fernando Alonso 13:11:13 319.6 
10 9 Nick Heidfeld 13:06:08 319.5 
11 6 Felipe Massa 13:06:48 319.3 
12 2 Mark Webber 13:08:41 318.3 
13 20 Heikki Kovalainen 13:05:16 316.8 
14 21 Jarno Trulli 13:06:16 316.7 
15 4 Jenson Button 13:08:28 316.7 
16 23 Vitantonio Liuzzi 13:06:58 316.0 
17 11 Rubens Barrichello 13:09:32 315.4 
18 12 Pastor Maldonado 13:17:16 315.2 
19 3 Lewis Hamilton 13:32:05 314.5

You are 5.5 slower then Seb, and 5.1 slower then Alonso according to the speed trap. Maybe that doesn't tell the whole story (slipstream) but still.. it can't be anywhere near the numbers said in the quote.

Don't forget Lewis was going faster all the way to the braking point because of a tall gear, whereas other guys were on the limiter for good amount of distance. So it is a huge difference when you take that and the fact Lewis was stealing a tow into account.

Edited by OwenC93, 12 June 2011 - 01:04.

[Dunder]

Am I correct in thinking that gear ratios are locked in after FP3?

Therefore the only possibility I can throw onto Mclaren getting their gear ratio wrong is, when they added on more wing, perhaps they forgot / underestimated the knockon effect it would have had on their gear ratio? TBH I still find this suprising, since for example Nick Heidfeld also has more wing & didn't complaint about a long 7th gear.

Do we also know whether Button is suffering from a long 7th gear?

Also thinking ahead to the race, Does anyone know how long the option & prime tyres are expected to last for in the race?

Purely going on my pretty sketchy memory from Monaco, where they also used the softs & SS. I would have expected the SS to last for circa 15 laps & maybe the primes to last for circa 25 laps. Does anyone have any further update as to whether or not this is the case?

Assuming it is dry & given the relatively long time it takes to warm up the options, I reckon the primes might be a 'dark horse' in terms of race tyre come sunday? This of course depends on how long the tyres can last for? I am desperate to find out this info to work out possible strategies.

From my reading of FP3 & quali options "only" appeared to between 0.6 to 0.8 secs quicker than the primes (depending on car/driver), however options take at least a lap (maybe two for some drivers) to warm up to full operating temperature. So during the race the options may struggle to regain performance for a lap or two after a SC period & we may see serveral SC's during the race. Whislt, on the evidence of Rosberg's 1st lap in FP3 (where he did a 1.15.0 straightaway), Primes can be pretty quick straightaway & performance fall off appears to be better than the options. Although it has to be said perhaps the Mercs, can warm their tyres better than other cars (since they have been overheating their tyres more than other teams).

Another thought Re; option tyres. If its a wet dry race tomorrow & at some point drivers would want to try dry tyres on a damp track. Then if the primes can work quicker than the options when cooler, & is the more consistent tyre, they might be the one to be on?

Gear ratios have to declared for the remainder of the weekend after FP2.

Tyre degradation is likely to be worse than we have witnessed during the FPs because it has already rained since quali so we will be back to a relatively green track. I would agree that if it stays dry, the teams are likely to view the prime as their primary race tyre.

[Ibsey]

Gear ratios have to declared for the remainder of the weekend after FP2.

Tyre degradation is likely to be worse than we have witnessed during the FPs because it has already rained since quali so we will be back to a relatively green track. I would agree that if it stays dry, the teams are likely to view the prime as their primary race tyre.

Thanks for the clarification Dunder. BTW I do enjoy reading your very informative posts as you seem to be one of the very few people here who consistently talks sense.

[Watkins74]

Thanks for the clarification Dunder. BTW I do enjoy reading your very informative posts as you seem to be one of the very few people here who consistently talks sense.

+1 Dunder rocks!

[Dunder]

Thanks for the clarification Dunder. BTW I do enjoy reading your very informative posts as you seem to be one of the very few people here who consistently talks sense.

No problem and your second sentence is appreciated, thanks.

[Ricardo F1]

If you look at both virtual laps you can see both of them being faster than what they ended up setting. Neither Felipe or Alonso made a perfect lap. So yes, it's fair to say Felipe didn't catch a break as his virtual lap was waster. It just goes on and on.

It's not catching a break, he's not capable of putting together a perfect lap. Not to mention when you add three sectors together like that from different laps you're not taking into account his set up might be different for each of the laps, therefore making the 'perfect lap' actually impossible to achieve.

[Ricardo F1]

THIS.

The gearing excuse has to be a cover up for something else, it just seems like such a silly error to make.

Well it's not necessarily an error if it allows them to tow and then pass tomorrow.

[joshb]

As long as his acceleration isn't too sluggish before he gets the extra top speed, he'll be in play for some passing

[ImDDAA]

+1 Dunder rocks!

Dunder is one of the boards best members.

[ImDDAA]

Don't forget Lewis was going faster all the way to the braking point because of a tall gear, whereas other guys were on the limiter for good amount of distance. So it is a huge difference when you take that and the fact Lewis was stealing a tow into account.

Don't forget that Lewis said they were 10k slower and they were actually 10k slower than the fastest car which the guy who facepalmed him carefully edited out.

[Raggedhedge]

At the end of of Q3, LH drove directly into the pits and parked inside the Mclaren garage and got out of his car. I'm confused? Isn't that car supposed to be in park fermee conditions? What work, if any, are they permitted to carry out on the car? Did they actually change his set up?

Edited by Raggedhedge, 12 June 2011 - 09:16.

[silverstonegeneral]

he said they found a problem with his car.he wouldnt say what it was tho.
he also said he hope's he can finish the race and get some points.maybe he thinks his car may not last for the whole race.

Edited by silverstonegeneral, 12 June 2011 - 09:17.