20 replies to this topic

[arttidesco]

A couple of weeks ago I came across this unrestored K1 at the Haynes International Motor Museum.



Here is the blurb that went with it.

Thanks to help from Allards chief engineer David Hooper I now know the three team cars on the 1947 Alpine Rally were actually Red, Dark Blue and Light Blue, which rather spoils a good story, but what I still do not know is who apart from Leonard Potter made up the driver pairings and what results did the other two cars record ?

All relevant answers may be used and credited in a forthcoming blog.

Thanking you in anticipation of your responses.

Edited by arttidesco, 17 June 2011 - 07:41.

[David McKinney]

At a guess I'd say Sydney Allard and Goff Imhoff, but that's without checking

[Allan Lupton]

Presumably Motor Sport would help - I have none before 1950 so can't say.
Strangely David Kinsella ("Allard", Haynes, 1977) does not help. He lists the winning of the Coupe de Aix-les-Bains in the 1947 Alpine Trial in an appendix, but there's no mention in the text.
In Portugal Imhof had Ken Hutchison as codriver (in Goff's J1 HLP5) so quite possibly they were together for the Alpine.

Edited by Allan Lupton, 17 June 2011 - 09:38.

[David McKinney]

Motorsport has only a brief report - mentions Imhof and Potter, and also Wick, who was not necessarily a member of the works team

[Tim Murray]

When Potter won a Coupe des Alpes in the 1948 Alpine his co-driver in the Allard was C.A.N. May, who described his experiences on the event in the book Wheelspin Abroad.

[Vitesse2]

Motor Sport doesn't seem to have bothered much with this one. However, it was reported in Automobil Revue.

No mention of the other two Allards, but Potter was 5th in class (over 3000cc), not 5th overall. The results given are by no means complete, but at least twelve cars in other classes finished with fewer penalties than the Allard, meaning it could not have finished better than 17th in the overall classification.

Edited by Vitesse2, 17 June 2011 - 13:05.

[Pete Stowe]

There’s a report in The Autocar (25 July 1947) which refers to “the three Allards, driven by Imhof, Potter and Wick”.
After the first stage, Marseilles to Aix-les-Bains, all three Allards were free of penalties; “Wick, however, was not happy about his Allard’s engine.”
Imhof’s Allard won a cup on the manoeuvrability test at Aix, presumably the trophy referred to by Kinsella.

At the Chamonix lunch stop on the second stage, to Annecy, “Potter’s blue Allard was seen to have a damaged front, but was still running; not so Wick’s Allard, for a big-end had given out.” Imhof’s Allard developed gearbox trouble on the speed test at Annecy and also retired. Results list Potter as 5th in class 1, over 3-litres, but no penalties or overall positions listed.

From a quick look in Kinsella’s book, this would appear to have been Maurice, rather than Cyril, Wick.

[Tim Murray]

According to Martin Pfundner's book Alpine Trials & Rallies there was no General Classification on the Alpine Rally until 1952.

[Vitesse2]

Tim Murray, on Jun 17 2011, 13:14, said:

According to Martin Pfundner's book Alpine Trials & Rallies there was no General Classification on the Alpine Rally until 1952.

Ah - I'd checked his text for 1947, but not 1952. You are indeed correct, Tim.

So a more accurate statement would be: "Had there been an overall classification, the Allard would have finished no better than 17th, having racked up 240 penalties".

Full class order was:
1 Burgerhout (Delahaye) 10pts
2 van Strien (Ford) 20pts
3 Appleyard (Jaguar) 50pts
4 Huguet (Hotchkiss) 110pts
5 Potter (Allard) 240pts

[arttidesco]

Thanks for your help David, Allan, Tim, Peter and Richard

Wondering apart from Leonard Potter being in the blue car is their any info about the colour of the vehicles Goff Imhoff and Maurice Wick were driving ?

Thanks again

[Pete Stowe]

No further reference to car colours in the Autocar text, there is however a b&w photo captioned as Imhof’s Allard, which shows the colour to be very pale. It also appears to carry rally number 11 on the rear.

[Allan Lupton]

Goff Imhof's J1, HLP5, was white according to Kinsella.

[Pete Stowe]

Only part of the top of the rear number plate's visible in the photo. It's definately not HLP5 though. Could be JGP4 something. Possibly JGP 473 (referred to on p70-71 of Kinsella)

[arttidesco]

Can anyone clarify that Imhof and Wick were both also in K1 models on the '47 Alpine Rally, mention of Imhof's J1 reg HLP5 is throwing the spanner of doubt into my mind ?

Pete could the car you mention as being very pale possibly reg JGP 473 actually be pale blue like Potters car JGP 467 above and is it a K1 ?

Cheers

[Pete Stowe]

Ralph, I've e-mailed you a copy of the photo, so you can make your own judgement

[mikeC]

The 1947 Alpine Allards were, indeed, red, white and blue.
C A N May has a whole chapter on the event in More Wheelspin, complete with two photographs, credited to A Traverso, of Cannes. Len Potter's blue car was JGP 467, Godfrey Imhof's white car was JGP 474, and Maurice Wick's red car was CHM 316.
Len Potter had invited May to passenger him in the event, but the invitation was turned down because of domestic commitments, so the chapter in his book was largely written by Potter. He writes, and I quote, " Our cars were painted red, white and blue respectively, which pleased the French a great deal..."
Wick's car ran the big-ends on the second day, and he spent the rest of the rally in Cannes rebuilding the engine.
Imhof won the 3-litre class in the driving test at Aix-les-Bains, whilst Potter "...won the game of skittles, knocking down the whole lot at one go, this success, however, costing me an extra second for each direct hit. In view of this, I think my time for the test was slightly longer than the time occupied for the whole trial"
There is no further mention of Imhof, But Potter's car suffered a broken back axle casing on the last day and only just made the finish in Cannes on time.

Edited by mikeC, 21 June 2011 - 21:42.

[Vitesse2]

mikeC, on Jun 21 2011, 22:41, said:

Potter's car suffered a broken back axle casing on the last day and only just made the finish in Cannes on time.

... which presumably explains the large number of penalties.

[arttidesco]

Thanks for the additional confirmation of the red white and blue cars Mike

[David McKinney]

How did Imhof win the 3-litre class in that test? Surely the Over 3-litre class?

[mikeC]

Indeed - my mistake

[mikeC]

Vitesse2, on Jun 21 2011, 22:59, said:

... which presumably explains the large number of penalties.

Potter implies that he reached the finish on time, without penalties, so presumably the large score was as a result of his game of skittles!