As ever, I am at a complete loss to understand how anyone could possibly see enough Schumi hate or bias to any particular driver or team in the BBC commentary to actually bother writing about it.
Oh it's the internet, people take the infinitely small and blow it out of proportion. Case in point the BBC was accused of having a major ... anti-Hamilton bias a couple of months ago http://forums.autosp...howtopic=127126
Oh comeon ITV run Hamiltonthons not F1 coverage. Rider especially was super mega annoying. Brundle would be talking about something/someone in the race and Rider would cut in every 3 seconds ... "and how about Lewis?"
There was a reason many called the ITV-F1 coverage 'The Lewis Hamilton show'. Sometimes it reminded me of the muppet show, and almost got convinced they did it to provide some comic relief. For a sport coverage, it was very, very bad.
I agree with all of this - back then Hamilton was my preferred driver, but the ITV coverage of him was embarrassing and honestly left me grappling with the fact that I found myself wanting him to win and yet couldn't stand listening to him and the endless coverage about him. Since then, i've come to appreciate his on track ability almost solely over everything else, and don't care overly about whether or not I like him as a person. Anyway I digress - in the case of the season finale , I don't understand what Karne took particular exception to, especially when he's giving out about them celebrating a British driver winning the World Championship on a British TV channel.
Well... it's not so much bias, but more the ability to complain about one drivers driving against another. Take Spa for instance, if it was Lewis on the outside, I don't believe that DC would have gone on about the outside driver turning into the other. It happened in Monza too, but the car defending was suddenly the villain. All season the BBC team have tried to convince us di Resta is the best thing out there, ignoring Perez's strong drives. Although I think Paul has had a wonderful season, I don't think it's been anything to write home about. Yes he's scored points and been strong, but for my money Sutil has got more out of the car when there has been the opportunity to do so.
Having said all of this, the BBC team have done a far better job this season than any other that I have watched, and I have watched since I was a very small boy. I have, for the most part, really enjoyed Martin and DC in the box, as they have almost picked apart every race with such intense detail that I couldn't think of on my own. Martin is an excellent leader, and DC is still a modern relative pundit. I would love to continue watching them in the future, but I think I will stop watching when the sky deal comes in.
In Hamilton vs. Schumacher this weekend, throughout the whole battle not once did I hear anything out of touch with reality from Brundle or Coulthard - the only real negatives expressed by either of them was that Schumi was toeing the line very, very close, and that was reinforced a few laps later with the radio message he recieved.
DC went and fetched the rulebook in order to bitch further, long after the incident was done with.. They talked more about Schumachers driving than about anything else in the race.
Martin even prodded him by asking about Schumacher's amazing starts and DC simply could not bring himself to give credit to the man.
I once posted an adverse comment regarding A1 and a certain ex F1 Irish driver who absolutely lost the plot, and the commentary, whenever the shamrock car appeared.
Regardless of what was going on at the pointy end, commentary regressed. Comment wasn't well received, nevertheless I stand by it, still.
Moving on - the two F1 commentators I receive I have a lot of regard for although they do show some amazing biases from time to time.
Read Brundle's latest punditry for a perfect example of why he doesn't possess a balanced opinion. Pushing his agenda in the race/forum isn't enough, so he has 'blog' rants as well ? Hope Sky manage to get someone much better
Read Brundle's latest punditry for a perfect example of why he doesn't possess a balanced opinion. Pushing his agenda in the race/forum isn't enough, so he has 'blog' rants as well ? Hope Sky manage to get someone much better
Fair enough, express your opinion about an incident, that is what a colour commentator is supposed to do. However MB/DC dragged the Schumi/Hamilton thing on far longer than necessary while racing was still going on.
When he got the rulebook out DC sounded like an autistic teenager playing warhammer fapping to anyone in earshot that his space ork had just anally raped an ultramarine.
We often think others biased when they put an opposing point to our own inbuilt bias. So if we were MS fans we might overestimate critical comments whereas if we didn't like MS we might not even notice. That's just an example of course.
So you have to be careful.
I do think British commentators tend to pump up British sportsmen of all sorts, only natural I think. Toby and Julian in bike commentating do for instance, but they are still very good.
Brundle hates Vettel's guts - but does an amazing job of hiding it !
He let that slip up yesterday @Monza tho.
Yeah he hates him and hailed him as becoming one of the greats. "How long do you think David before we start mentioning this guy in the same breath as Ayrton Senna and Michael Schumacher?"
Brundle appreciates Vettels talent and I don't get the impression he hates him at all.
Fair enough, express your opinion about an incident, that is what a colour commentator is supposed to do. However MB/DC dragged the Schumi/Hamilton thing on far longer than necessary while racing was still going on.
As that was the only thing really going on in the race at the time, and the main focus of the FOM pictures, I guess you would expect them to comment on it.
When he got the rulebook out DC sounded like an autistic teenager playing warhammer fapping to anyone in earshot that his space ork had just anally raped an ultramarine.
Maybe he thought that quoting the actual rules, rather than the majority of posters 'idea of what they want the rules to mean to support then own particular bias', he might bring some insight as to what was happening. Even the most pro-shumi fan ought to admit that subsequent radio messages showed he and MB had a valid point.
Funny thing is, Brundle actively tries to stifle his biases, but tends to waffle on badly about how things used to be in his glory days, and seems not to be actually all that informed. David on the other hand is very informed and knowledgeable about the current sport, but makes no effort at all to control his biases. Both could learn from the other.
Reading what you guys say about your commentaries I understand how lucky we are in Russia to have our commentator, Alexey Popov.
Yes, of course, there is a bit of bias to Petrov, however, I think, it is pretty much reasonable. If the crash is Petrov's fault, he will admit it.
He usually gives pretty much enough information about the whole grid, how the race is developing for other racers. He is not only focused on the TV picture, but also talks about what's happening on other parts of the track.
If the race is, let's say, boring (e.g. few hours delay like in Canada) then he gives a bit of information about teams, the news, results of supporting races.
As for his like or dislike to some drivers - there is obviously some, hoewver, it is almost unnoticeble during his commentaries and his commentaries are as unbiased as they can be. Not surprised he was once voted the second best TV-commentator in Russia.
Oh comeon ITV run Hamiltonthons not F1 coverage. Rider especially was super mega annoying. Brundle would be talking about something/someone in the race and Rider would cut in every 3 seconds ... "and how about Lewis?"
James Allen got rather creepy during that period too. The Hamilton/Senna comparison 9 times during Monaco 2008!!! Christ, if I had been Lewis I would have had a restraining order slapped on Allen the moment that race finished and a years supply of 'Creep Spray' would have been order from Amazon.com immediately.
At least the period of ITV heaping biblical praise upon Lewis is over. It was vomit-inducingly nauseating, buttock-clenchingly embarassing and hugely unprofessional all at the same time.
Brundle and DC do a much better job, although their biases do show through some time. DC reading out the rule book at Monza was quite pathetic and unnecessary imho.
James Allen got rather creepy during that period too. The Hamilton/Senna comparison 9 times during Monaco 2008!!! Christ, if I had been Lewis I would have had a restraining order slapped on Allen the moment that race finished and a years supply of 'Creep Spray' would have been order from Amazon.com immediately.
I think you would make a great person for making a Blu-Ray named "The Deep and Dark Secrets of James Allen"
*Shudders*
Now you have me thinking of what his basement is like
James Allen got rather creepy during that period too. The Hamilton/Senna comparison 9 times during Monaco 2008!!! Christ, if I had been Lewis I would have had a restraining order slapped on Allen the moment that race finished and a years supply of 'Creep Spray' would have been order from Amazon.com immediately.
Sorry but I tend to rather take things literally or see them that way. I fully support your leap for presidency, reply of the day
A thread moaning about Comentators? On Autosport? I cant believe it!
Really people the Legard witch hunt go embarassing even if there was justfication for wanting rid of him.
DC and MB do a fantastic job, they really do. We are so spoiled, we just dont realise it.
F1 has become very popular following the great work ITV and the BBC have done. Unfortunately, it's attracted a lot of immature idiots who've nothing better to do than listen to every word the commentators make on (and off) the telly and come up with delusional inferences from the commentary.
This latest anti DC/MB spat over what they said when MS was pushing the rules shows just how thick the complainers are, when they continue to object about DC/MB, even after Brawn vindicated their opinions during and after the race.
F1 has become very popular following the great work ITV and the BBC have done. Unfortunately, it's attracted a lot of immature idiots who've nothing better to do than listen to every word the commentators make on (and off) the telly and come up with delusional inferences from the commentary.
This latest anti DC/MB spat over what they said when MS was pushing the rules shows just how thick the complainers are, when they continue to object about DC/MB, even after Brawn vindicated their opinions during and after the race.
Nope, Brawn thought it was great racing and it showed vintage Michael. Nigel Roebuck thought likewise. Yet these two BBC-clowns couldnt get a word of praise, yet only yapped about one or two moves in a 22 lap battle that were 'on the limit' and warranted 'not a penalty but a warning'. How much more knitting club does it have to be for you to be convinced this was crappy commentating?
Nope, Brawn thought it was great racing and it showed vintage Michael. Nigel Roebuck thought likewise. Yet these two BBC-clowns couldnt get a word of praise, yet only yapped about one or two moves in a 22 lap battle that were 'on the limit' and warranted 'not a penalty but a warning'. How much more knitting club does it have to be for you to be convinced this was crappy commentating?
coulthard and brundlew are just a bad pairing imo, they seem to get overly biased when together its almost like coulthard is trying to get in brundles good books... he just encourages him
Pedro de la Rosa, as comentator at La Sexta, was at his best last Sunday... He had a hell of a time at the end of the race when Hamilton was chasing Alonso and finally when the race was over and it was sure that Alonso kept the third position, he could breath deeply and relax... Funny, he works for McLaren Mercedes and he wanted the other driver to finish ahead... Impressive...
Your opinion appears to be in the vanishing minority.
They agreed with each other both being Schumacher's ex-rivals and having faced Michael's well known and unquestionably borderline racing moves first-hand. DC even mentioned while commentating "I can just hear the fans yelling 'jealous old Coulthard' when I say this, but..." (or something very close to that) so when he called out Michael's racing as being bad, he did so in full knowledge of what it sounded like, but said it anyway because he felt it needed to be said. Michael slowed himself down by defending for so long against a clearly faster car (over the whole lap) when losing the position before the end of the race was almost guaranteed (a pitstop undercut for Hamilton would have had him past in the next couple of laps anyway), so defending so aggressively was pretty pointless anyway.
Schumacher is undeniably one of the sport's all time greats, but when most of his rivals from his first career agree that he can be a really dirty driver sometimes, who are we to argue?
Bringing the discussion here from the Alonso thread:
OK so saying Driver A hates Driver B and Team C is biased Cheering When Driver D goes out of the race and Driver E benefits isn't
I think I got the gist of it.
And controversy is literally the different view. Spice.It's what makes a broadcast balanced. Both Lobatto and Gonzalo Serrano were by default controvensial since they openly supported Alonso and relied on PDLR and Gene for some balanced commentary. And even PDLR is literally scared to cheer for his employer when they have a good race and Alonso has a bad one. In La Sexta's case the broadcast is centered on Alonso. The BBC covers everybody and doesn't openly support somebody. But I am sure you can't understand the difference, or the smack you in the face obvious difference in mangitude of bias. You basically say it's ok for Spanish broadcasters to openly support Alonso and cheer his opponents failures/mistakes but .. other broadcasters have to be sure to respect Alonso's feelings. It just doesn't make any sense.
PS what was La Sexta saying in Valencia 2010 (honest question, I haven't seen their broadcast)?
No, sorry but you don't seem to get the gist of it, and I could say that you are the one who can't understand the difference or the "smack you in the face obvious difference in mangitude of bias". And on top of that, you twist my words: I don't mind Spanish broadcasters supporting Alonso or British broadcasters supporting Hamilton. I mind when someone like you react to a criticism of a British broadcaster by saying that the Spanish ones are worse, with no basis other than vague references to a guy who left that coverage in 2008, and who in any case never said anything at the level of the examples I provided.
You comment that PDLR is "literally scared to cheer for his employer when they have a good race and Alonso has a bad one" is nonsense, and if you actually follow the Spanish broadcast you know it.
And finally, I insist in my point: you are still to post here a link in which one of the Spanish broadcasters makes a comment even remotely similar to Eddie Jordan's "Alonso hates us, hates McLaren, hates Hamilton" (), which is totally unacceptable and has nothing to do with respecting Alonso's feelings - it is outright hate talk. The most that you will get from the Spanish broadcasters is the type of bias that the British broadcasters show when they scream to the top of their lungs "braketest" when Hamilton run into Alonso's back in Bahrein 2008, and there is a qualitative difference there with regards to EJ's comment.
PS I am trying to find the Valencia 2010 broadcast by La Sexta to put it here, but no luck so far
Edit 2 This is all I found about Valencia 2010 in La Sexta, but it is missing Lobato's first reaction, which you can bet was far less moderate than what we can hear here:
Edited by Fontainebleau, 14 September 2011 - 09:46.
DC went and fetched the rulebook in order to bitch further, long after the incident was done with.. They talked more about Schumachers driving than about anything else in the race.
Martin even prodded him by asking about Schumacher's amazing starts and DC simply could not bring himself to give credit to the man.
He didn't. They have a researcher in the booth with them (usually Mark Hughes). DC didn't have to run out to his local library and read every subsection of the rules. He simply used them to back up his viewpoint. Shame on him!
At least the period of ITV heaping biblical praise upon Lewis is over. It was vomit-inducingly nauseating, buttock-clenchingly embarassing and hugely unprofessional all at the same time.
Brundle and DC do a much better job, although their biases do show through some time. DC reading out the rule book at Monza was quite pathetic and unnecessary imho.
ITV are a tacky commerical broadcaster. Hamilton was the story of 2007. The focus on him was overdone, but was there to chase ad money through more viewers.
I'm not sure what biases Coulthard and Brundle are meant to have? At one stage or another they have been accussed of bias against several drivers. Usually their accusers of such are the ones with the bias, not the commentators.
You guys have this tendency to overanalyze ... on a live broadcast that they have to spend 2 hours constantly talking they often say what comes to mind. And 99.9% of the time there is no sinister motive to whatever they say, they are just expressing thoughts without the benefit of time to fully process them.
And don't make me bring up the Spanish broadcasts and how "impartial' they are, or how "respectful" they are of making sure they don't portray drivers in a negative light. Next to them DC and Brundle are PC automatons
German expat living in Spain here (just tell you because I can understand Spanish).
To start with that laSexta was garbage during the Lobato-Serrano era doesn't justify other medias being blatantly unfair and sensationalist now. Secondly, laSexta is not only Lobato (Gonzalo Serrano has not been around since a lot of years ago), but also Mark Gene and De La Rosa are commentators during the races, and both are WAY MORE BALANCED and FAIR than Brundle and DC will ever be. Actually when Lobato performs a "Lobatada", Pedro and Mark oftenly cool him down with no mercy (Lobato can't do nothing but laugh trying to not look stupid or Alonso's boyfriend). laSexta currenly (at least during races) is pretty pleasant even for non-Alonso fans.
Also, just look at the video reported by Fontainebleau (which has to do with Alonso so not that offtopic I guess ). I highly doubt that guy said that because he wanted to fill space on TV and that it was just something that came out of his mind without much mental process... That speech (which is more like a rage) looks to me very very well processed and preemptive.
For a lot of time I never saw such bitching and baiting at laSexta not even coming from Lobato since the "Kimi is an amoeba".
ITV are a tacky commerical broadcaster. Hamilton was the story of 2007. The focus on him was overdone, but was there to chase ad money through more viewers.
I'm not sure what biases Coulthard and Brundle are meant to have? At one stage or another they have been accussed of bias against several drivers. Usually their accusers of such are the ones with the bias, not the commentators.
I don't know about Coulthard, but my last problem with Brundle comes from the references in recent articles to Alonso's attitude after Webber's overtaking at Eau Rouge: I find it suprising that he would even hint that Alonso would want to "get even" with a dangerous move the next time. Those are the type of comments that create an evil image of a driver, and based on zilch. And I found it absolutely unprofessional that he gave Alonso a negative nickname in the official TV broadcast. Yes, I know that he has been complimentary of Alonso at other times, but that is not the point - the point is that he went beyond the line, in these cases with Alonso but maybe with some others too, in which case he would not be biased but act as an idiot with all of them equally
German expat living in Spain here (just tell you because I can understand Spanish).
To start with that laSexta was garbage during the Lobato-Serrano era doesn't justify other medias being blatantly unfair and sensationalist now. Secondly, laSexta is not only Lobato (Gonzalo Serrano has not been around since a lot of years ago), but also Mark Gene and De La Rosa are commentators during the races, and both are WAY MORE BALANCED and FAIR than Brundle and DC will ever be. Actually when Lobato performs a "Lobatada", Pedro and Mark oftenly cool him down with no mercy (Lobato can't do nothing but laugh trying to not look stupid or Alonso's boyfriend). laSexta currenly (at least during races) is pretty pleasant even for non-Alonso fans.
Also, just look at the video reported by Fontainebleau (which has to do with Alonso so not that offtopic I guess ). I highly doubt that guy said that because he wanted to fill space on TV and that it was just something that came out of his mind without much mental process... That speech (which is more like a rage) looks to me very very well processed and preemptive.
For a lot of time I never saw such bitching and baiting at laSexta not even coming from Lobato since the "Kimi is an amoeba".
the current hungarian main commentator is in love with Alonso... they say he has a picture of Alf in his wallet.
in 2008 canada he reacted in a weeping voice when Alonso's back end started to slip... in AD 2010 he was openly supporting him, etc etc
He didn't. They have a researcher in the booth with them (usually Mark Hughes). DC didn't have to run out to his local library and read every subsection of the rules. He simply used them to back up his viewpoint. Shame on him!
Really? Wow thanks for clearing that up, I really did think he went to the library. Don't I feel silly.
They are biased towards who maintains a high audience, it's simples. After that if they have several options they'll just comment on it and come to a general opinion about them and rank them. That's what happens on BBC. I see constant praising of Red Bull but they clearly support Di Resta. They don't seem too passionate about Jenson but they support him, and about Hamilton I think they always expect more from him. I think their expectations where not met and now they are a little bit negative about him. I like Brundle but not as a leading commentator to be honest. Jordan and DC... well they are amusing more than useful. But overall I like the BBC team.
In Spain they clearly support Alonso because it's a private channel and they rely on ads (it's horrible to watch a race in La Sexta, you get advertisements every 15 min for around 8 mins. I'd say and they usually miss the race highlights because of that). Alonso brings cash in. In the Alonso era it's been on two different channels, Telecinco (2004-2008) and La Sexta (2009 and on) both with Lobato. He is excessively passionate about Alonso, it was even worse in Telecinco; when Alonso makes a mistake he just does not have any negative remarks for him. He is from the same place and he feels very close to Alonso. It's curious, cos they talk about Alguersuari, they talked about PDLR, but as side actors, as if it didn't matter at all if they were there or not. They do comment on them and follow them, but Alonso is their favorite toy. However in Catalunya, appart from La Sexta they have regional TV3 where commentators are quite more impartial but they support Alonso, but not like fanatics. They don't show ads (it's public), they put more passion when narrating the race, only thing is it's in Catalan but easy to understand with a bit of practice. They are not really negative about anyone except when someone is too harsh on others like Schumi, Hamilton, Sutil or Kobayashi sometimes - but only when deserved.
Nitro I think you will find their bias has less to do with target audience and more to do with their history in the sport. DC drove for Red Bull and they are the British team leading the way at the moment. Both drove for McLaren and have no qualms about talking up that team either. On Button, DC is one of his closest mates and Brundle has a long history with him as well.
Nitro I think you will find their bias has less to do with target audience and more to do with their history in the sport. DC drove for Red Bull and they are the British team leading the way at the moment. Both drove for McLaren and have no qualms about talking up that team either. On Button, DC is one of his closest mates and Brundle has a long history with him as well.
Actually, perfect reasons to ditch them both. Ill throw in the argument DC next to Brundle is the epitome of nepotism since Brundle was DC's paid advisor for a lot of years.
2 ex-drivers just doesnt work. They dont have a broad vocabulary and are not trained to entertain an audience. Brundle tries mighty hard and he does have some talent, but aside of the bullshit on Schumacher he kept on raising my disgust with constant pedantic tone what this driver should do and what that team should have done.
I like Brundle a lot. But I think he is a bit biased against MS. I don't think that is intentional. That probably comes from his years as his teammate and driver in F1. If MS did something so blatantly wrong that other drivers don't do, he would have been penalized. If I were a steward, I would have punished MS. But I would given out so much more penalties to other drivers as well. Thing is they don't react that badly when other drivers do it.
I watch SpeedTV. They for the most part are okay. But they do like Hamilton a bit more than others. They can get very tabloidish when it comes to reporting any false rumours. They can sensationalize anything. Thing is they do the same with everyone. So when things are going bad for your team or driver, you would really feel bad. Among teams, they like McLaren the best. It does not mean they don't like Ferrari. They like Ferrari much like Ferrari's character - dark, mystique and nasty.
I watch StarSports sometimes. Steve Slater is a total Hamilton fanboy. That is it.
I speak English, not so good German. I think that Lauda is the worst case in general when we talk about bias, everything is so crystal clear with him. I'm in fact surprised how he can run such a good airline... he surely doesn't treat his stuff equally. You can guess his answers every time and it's like this for at least 10 years.
On BBC there is clear and annoying bias for Di Resta, even though he's British they should clear that up... he's often massively overpraised. The other annoying thing is DC & Red Bull, he's always defending them! I can understand any bias towards MSC, because of their history together, but with Red Bull he's always finding excuses. Also I think they have slight preference for Jenson & Mark, simply because they're friends. But that's it, it's one of the very best commentary teams in history. I just want them to be more excited when something happens, but I'm sure they'll improve on this.
On Radio 5, I think Ant is showing when he has had personal opinion on some of the drivers, usually Massa & traffic:) But the problem w/ BBC is just di Resta & DC+RBR=LOVE
On Speed, Peter Windsor always had clear bias towards McLaren or Williams, no question about it... Hobbs likes Hamilton, Matchett is always very cool, it's just their style that's a little too relaxed and the freaking amount of ads! About Buxton, I haven't got too much impressions on him, but from twitter I can bet he's very pro-Hamilton.
I also know from friends that Lobato is a joke, I think it's a widespread opinion on him:)
Of course when the TV comes from a country w/o any F1 drivers, I think any bias must be removed. Clear.
ITV are a tacky commerical broadcaster. Hamilton was the story of 2007. The focus on him was overdone, but was there to chase ad money through more viewers.
I'm not sure what biases Coulthard and Brundle are meant to have? At one stage or another they have been accussed of bias against several drivers. Usually their accusers of such are the ones with the bias, not the commentators.
Coulthard is ridiculously pro-RBR, and by that I also mean pro-Horner. Watching him flounder his way through the team orders debacle at Silverstone was painful. He sounded so pathetic every time he came up with a new excuse to try and justify the team orders. But it was the same with the front wing debacle too. I remember him saying Mark should have left Vettel more room at hte start of last year's Silverstone race!
Brundle is generally OK, but I find DC's pro-everything-RB attitude really annoying
But then again I always found him annoying as a driver so maybe I just dislike DC....
Though can you really call any amount of pro-RedBull commentary biased when they clearly have the best car for the 2nd season running, when they have solved their reliability problems from last season and have an almost unblemished record, when their car gets put on pole even on the tracks everyone thought it would do less well on ... etc?
RedBull are having an incredible couple of years with no sign of slowing down - anyone can see RBR aren't doing a whole lot wrong this year, and so I would expect most commentators and pundits to praise them to the high heavens as the benchmark team that they have become. I realise DC is still employed by RBR, but if anything I think he's remarkably restrained from enthusing about them more often.
The current crop of F1 commentators all try their best to be 'impartial', (some more than others). Fair enough, most of the time they are (as they should be really). But does anyone here suspect that some are actually closet fans or have 'favoured' teams or drivers? If they were to be totally honest.
I suspect our friend Jonathan Legard is a McLaren man. DC seems to still be working for Red Bull sometimes. EJ seems to be Vettel's No.1 fan. And James Allen has a 'thing' for Ferrari.
Anyone else got some theories/suggestions for this?
In sport I do not expect nationally based commentators to be totally impartial, but in F1, whole world was made unfortunately dependable on credibility of British sources, which in retrospect was probably a mistake IMO. Varsha of Speed TV (an US network) is probably most tolerable, and morally honest man with mike in his hands on Anglo-side of commentators that I know.
Varsha of Speed TV (an US network) is probably most tolerable, and morally honest man with mike in his hands on Anglo-side of commentators that I know.