304 replies to this topic

[Concorde]

There is nothing to investigate. At no time did Vettel leave the track completely, not at 1.11 or 1.12 in that video recording. He always had a part of the wheel on the white line.

I know and even IF he did it's all a non-issue.
The qualy result stands no matter how many fans come up with grainy stills.

[anti]

I know and even IF he did it's all a non-issue.
The qualy result stands no matter how many fans come up with grainy stills.

Of course, it's not Hamilton

Edited by anti, 29 October 2011 - 17:38.

[Ferrari2183]

I would like see what line the other drivers took through there.

Like so many others have said the result stands but it does look fishy...

[senna da silva]

that was a mistake by vettel wasn't it? the rear got a bit loose and he must've lost time going that way

he went faster on his second lap so it's not an issue

He was off the track on his second lap as well as is shown on the previous page.

[f1fastestlap]

He was off the track on his second lap as well as is shown on the previous page.

So he may have got his 0.039sec advantage by going like he did...

[D.M.N.]

No one protested the Qualifying result so you would assume no one had a problem with it. Also, Vettel's gap was 4 tenths. Did he really make up 4 tenths in that corner? No, I don't think so, somehow.

[senna da silva]

So he may have got his 0.039sec advantage by going like he did...

I think what is important in this case is that it's a dangerous precedent to set. Cutting the track is against the regulations and here we have a clear cut case of a driver doing just that without any review from the stewards.

[anti]

No one protested the Qualifying result so you would assume no one had a problem with it. Also, Vettel's gap was 4 tenths. Did he really make up 4 tenths in that corner? No, I don't think so, somehow.

Vettel would still be on pole, but this is irrelevant.
Hamilton in France in 2008 was fined for a similar incident, though by that time had overtaken Vettel.

[Muppetmad]

Well, Hamilton's lap at Monaco got nullified for cutting the chicane, even though he still finished poorly anyway. Vettel clearly was off the track twice, so the matter *ought* to be investigated.

[Schumacher7]

that's a bad excuse...there seem to be no problem with nico's car...why they bungled with schumi's equipments..

Did you even read it? It's not Schumacher or Rosberg's equipment, it's the TEAMS. It's used to check all the tyres are in balance and the reason it didn't (if it's true and I'm not saying it is) affect Rosberg but did Schumacher is because it was an issue with Schumacher's tyres, Rosberg's were, presumably, fine and had they had the rig to test the tyres Michael's would have ended up fine as well (assuming it was an out of balance wheel).

[jamiegc]

I think what is important in this case is that it's a dangerous precedent to set. Cutting the track is against the regulations and here we have a clear cut case of a driver doing just that without any review from the stewards.

Except you do not know whether or not concession has been made at that particular corner ala Turn 4 in Melbourne.

[f1fastestlap]

Except you do not know whether or not concession has been made at that particular corner ala Turn 4 in Melbourne.

Hmm, no official document from the FIA so no concession, I'm afraid...

[MortenF1]

Very good to very impressive lap from Vettel, but I think Webber could've been as close as on his first Q3-run, if he'd only done it.
Same goes for Hamilton, but if anything his lap was probably better. Shame that Button lost the balance again, even if it's been a handful of races since the last time.

Massa was on course for matching or perhaps even beating Alonso again, so that his suspension got knocked off was a shame.

Rosberg smashed Schumacher, the Toro Rosso's continue to improve, and the Saubers go in the opposite direction.

Hopefully Vettel will have a bad start tomorrow, and lose atleast one position - else he'll just disappear into the distance.

[Sakae]

Vettel's first lap in Q3:








Maybe Charlie allowed to cut in this corner..

What did Vettel gained in there? if anything, I thought excursion of that kind would slow him down.

[Sakae]

Vettel's first lap in Q3:








Maybe Charlie allowed to cut in this corner..

What did Vettel gained in there? if anything, I thought excursion of that kind would slow him down.

[joshb]

Well, Hamilton's lap at Monaco got nullified for cutting the chicane, even though he still finished poorly anyway. Vettel clearly was off the track twice, so the matter *ought* to be investigated.

Theres a slight difference between running out wide and straightlining a chicane like Hamilton did at Monaco.

[Fox1]

Lots of excuses for Seb leaving the track during his runs. I thought "Rules are Rules!! Where are these people when you need em.

[senna da silva]

Theres a slight difference between running out wide and straightlining a chicane like Hamilton did at Monaco.

He's not on the outside of a corner!

[f1fastestlap]

He's not on the outside of a corner!

Oh the excuses....

[AMG FAN]

There is nothing to investigate. At no time did Vettel leave the track completely, not at 1.11 or 1.12 in that video recording. He always had a part of the wheel on the white line.

really? because it looks to me that he went off track completely unless he has a rear end wider than it should be.

[muramasa]

Vettel's first lap in Q3:








Maybe Charlie allowed to cut in this corner..

Button:


Senna:


Just not all onboard videos, I'm sure Charlie is all there.

[jamiegc]

Hmm, no official document from the FIA so no concession, I'm afraid...

Of course that doesn't mean that somebody in passing mentioned that corner during the driver briefing and were told they could ride the curb.

But anyway, every team will have during their qualifying debrief, watched both Vettel's laps. If any if the other team had the slightest problem they'd have taken it up with Whiting and had both laps expunged.

[CrucialXtreme]

I'm not a VET or RBR fan, not in the least, and I will agree that what he did is cutting it close, I don't think he or any other driver should be penalized for it.

[anti]

- Hamilton cutting at Monaco, time annulled

[loki]

Excellent circuit. Fast, enjoyable racing.

[fagotti69]

Brilliant job Seb, well done.

[MortenF1]

Oh, and thumbs up to Karthikeyan! That was impressive, really impressive. Matching Ricciardo's times with very limited running.

[Tenmantaylor]

Where Seb put all 4 wheels over the white line; that is running wide, not cutting a corner. There is a slight apex to hit there but cutting it isn't a big advantage like cutting a chicane. It's more akin to running wide out of Ascari without the advantage of carrying the speed down a long straight. No problem here, he was winding of the steering not struggling to make an apex. Move along.

[MortenF1]

I'm not interested really, but it was not running wide, it was going far left in a left-hand corner, which is moving towards "cutting" the corner, but IMO he hasn't committed a crime.

[senna da silva]

Oh, and thumbs up to Karthikeyan! That was impressive, really impressive. Matching Ricciardo's times with very limited running.

Either Karthikeyan is the next greatest thing or Danny Ricky is very overrated. I'm thinking it's the latter.

[williams96]

Oh, and thumbs up to Karthikeyan! That was impressive, really impressive. Matching Ricciardo's times with very limited running.

Very limited running? Hasn't he done more laps this weekend than Ricciardo.

[krapmeister]

Either Karthikeyan is the next greatest thing or Danny Ricky is very overrated. I'm thinking it's the latter.

Or perhaps Narain had the qualy of his life at his home GP and Ricciardo had a poor one? One swallow does not a summer make.

Even Vettel has had a poor qualy session before, believe it or not...

[King Six]

Or perhaps Narain had the qualy of his life at his home GP and Ricciardo had a poor one? One swallow does not a summer make.

Even Vettel has had a poor qualy session before, believe it or not...

I honestly don't understand the Ricciardo hype one bit. Karthikeyan was never a completely useless driver anyway. This forum only deals in hyperboles.

Edited by King Six, 30 October 2011 - 00:19.

[BigCHrome]

Where Seb put all 4 wheels over the white line; that is running wide, not cutting a corner. There is a slight apex to hit there but cutting it isn't a big advantage like cutting a chicane. It's more akin to running wide out of Ascari without the advantage of carrying the speed down a long straight. No problem here, he was winding of the steering not struggling to make an apex. Move along.

No, when you go wide like that you carry more speed through the corner than fair drivers that actually keep it between the white lines.

[jamiegc]

I honestly don't understand the Ricciardo hype one bit. Karthikeyan was never a completely useless driver anyway. This forum only deals in hyperboles.

Would tend to agree. The 'uncomfortable truth' is that Ricciardo in his second season of WSR was beaten by Wickens, Vergne & Rossi. All WSR debutants and all future F1 drivers. Must be pretty embarrassing for Marko watching Wickens so far ahead of Ricciardo.

[Andrew Hope]

This forum only deals in hyperboles.

Quote of the year.

[krapmeister]

Would tend to agree. The 'uncomfortable truth' is that Ricciardo in his second season of WSR was beaten by Wickens, Vergne & Rossi. All WSR debutants and all future F1 drivers. Must be pretty embarrassing for Marko watching Wickens so far ahead of Ricciardo.

TBF though Ricciardo also had his F1 commitments to deal with while the others could focus solely on WSR, and iirc he changed teams from the season before - to a team that was generally not thought to be as good.

He may or may not live up to the hype. However, for all Marko's fault's - the 'uncomfortable truth' is that if he didn't see anything that special in him he wouldn't have bothered putting all this effort into him (placing him at HRT etc)...

[MortenF1]

Very limited running? Hasn't he done more laps this weekend than Ricciardo.

Errr, Ricciardo has been with the team a handful of times, whereas Karthikeyan only drove the car first time competitively on Friday. That's what I mean by limited running obviously.

[Alonso111]

I honestly don't understand the Ricciardo hype one bit. Karthikeyan was never a completely useless driver anyway. This forum only deals in hyperboles.

Karthikeyen isnt as bad as some people think , i would like to see him in a faster car but there are no seats available for him now , unless Sahara decide to give him a chance

This is what button said about him few days back -

"We have raced together in Formula 3 and I found that Narain is extremely skilled. We raced once at the Brands Hatch and he was quick, no one could touch him. I think he is just unlucky to be in one of the slowest cars in Formula One," Button

[chivdog]

Either Karthikeyan is the next greatest thing or Danny Ricky is very overrated. I'm thinking it's the latter.

According to quite a few posters on this BB: Vettel, Alonso, Hamilton, Button, Kimi and/or pretty much every other current and former f1 driver (yes, even, A. Senna) is or was overrated..

I think DR is doing what he needs to do at the moment. If he truly is overrated by the people that matter then I'm sure he'll be given the boot. In the meanwhile i'm quite enjoying watching his, and HRT's, progress relative to MVR.

[krapmeister]

Errr, Ricciardo has been with the team a handful of times, whereas Karthikeyan only drove the car first time competitively on Friday. That's what I mean by limited running obviously.

Not to take anything away from him, he did have some FP1 sessions in the last couple of GP's - but he has still done a stellar job so far...

[Mastah]

Stewards are clearly biased towards McLaren, Ferrari and Red Bull:

Monza 2004



Hockenheim 2006



Buddh 2011




Poor Mercedes, Renault, Force India, Sauber, Toro Rosso, Williams, Lotus, HRT, Virgin .

[MortenF1]

Oh, OK. But still, he's got far less mileage in the car than Ricciardo (and Liuzzi).

[MortenF1]

Mastah, it seems you don't understand the concept of "cutting a corner", ie making the track shorter. You've compared yesterday with cars running slightly wide on exit.
But again, I stress I don't think what Vettel did, the line he drove, is something worth reacting to.

[williams96]

Errr, Ricciardo has been with the team a handful of times, whereas Karthikeyan only drove the car first time competitively on Friday. That's what I mean by limited running obviously.

It was not that 'obvious'. Narain has regularly been in the car including racing eight races this season and taking part in many FP1 sessions.

Narain has done well, but has a lot of experience with HRT (a new track will make for an interesting comparison today).

Edited by williams96, 30 October 2011 - 07:58.

[anti]

Stewards are clearly biased towards McLaren, Ferrari and Red Bull:

Monza 2004



Hockenheim 2006



Buddh 2011




Poor Mercedes, Renault, Force India, Sauber, Toro Rosso, Williams, Lotus, HRT, Virgin .

Until 2011 season curb was part of the track. But in regulation 2011 season curb was not part the track!

[johnmhinds]

Well Vettel got away with it in Australia this year, so the rule doesn't really mean anything.

[anti]

Well Vettel got away with it in Australia this year, so the rule doesn't really mean anything.

But Hamilton annulled qualifying lap time at Monaco for cutting track. May be the rule doesn't really mean anything for Vettel?

[ArtShelley]

This thread proves that fanboys are the same, regardless of driver. Look at all the Seb ones getting defensive. Fact is, he left the track and there is a rule that drivers must remain on track. Now it's one thing if the driver left the track going completely off and it was not part of his pole lap, but in Seb's case it was his pole lap. Even if that one was annulled, he cut the chicane on the first run as well so that too shouldn't count.

[Mastah]

Mastah, it seems you don't understand the concept of "cutting a corner", ie making the track shorter. You've compared yesterday with cars running slightly wide on exit.
But again, I stress I don't think what Vettel did, the line he drove, is something worth reacting to.

I absolutely understand it, but for me it doesn't look like Seb cut the corner, because while on paper it's indeed corner, in reality it's more like a run-off from T11, so in my opinion examples I brought earlier are relevant to what happened yesterday.

At Catalunya drivers cut T8 without any consequences over the years







so if they weren't penalized for that, I don't see how Seb deserves any kind of penalty. Teams saw his pole lap and I haven't heard any complaints from them, so maybe there's no case to investigate?

Until 2011 season curb was part of the track. But in regulation 2011 season curb was not part the track!

Indeed, but why then Felipe received warnings from race director in Monaco 2009, while he had 2 wheels on kerb and was advised to stay within white lines with at least 2 wheels?