963 replies to this topic

[SonnyViceR]

Now that 50% of the diesels are come, what will happen at Le Mans?

Edited by SonnyViceR, 18 January 2012 - 16:30.

[PNSD]

The loss of Pug will hurt hard. How long will Audi last ? We can't expect Toyota to challenge on the first outing so it will be between Audi and a customer Pug IMO.

As for the future, alot of that will depend on Porsche and however long Audi want to be the only competing factory diesel.

[King Six]

Audi will dominate for sure, considering how close last year was, this is a massive blow to Endurance Racing. Toyota won't be upto "speed" this season, if ever (petrol). You know, if the diesel teams just quit maybe that would be for the better for everyone.

[primer]

No Audi will not lose, not unless their drivers crash all their cars or get involved in costly accidents.

[SonnyViceR]

not unless their drivers crash all their cars or get involved in costly accidents.

Which is not beyond of possibilities seeing how they managed to bin their cars when dealing with slower traffic at every ILMC event last year.

Edited by SonnyViceR, 18 January 2012 - 16:24.

[Meanstreak]

Where's "faces some competition but wins" option?

[Victor_RO]

If they still enter 3 cars, then I can't see them do anything else but sweep the podium. I'll be backing the guys at JRM though, Dumbreck needs to get on the podium after he got bitten hard by this place 13 years ago in the form of the flying Merc. In terms of classes, GTE-Pro is suddenly looking to be the more interesting class in terms of battles for me.

[SonnyViceR]

Where's "faces some competition but wins" option?

Option added to the poll...

[Wi000]

Gonna be an Audi dominated race but expect them to crash at least 1 car so a podium for a petrol car.

My dream scenario: privately entered Oreca Peugeot wins it.

[stewie]

As long as the likes of McNish don't stick it to the barriers, I can't see any reason why they wouldn't storm it this year!

[SonnyViceR]

My dream scenario: privately entered Oreca Peugeot wins it.

It would probably be somewhat bad PR for them to run a Peugeot stickered car when they're also involved with factory Toyota, don't you think ;)

[Meanstreak]

Gonna be an Audi dominated race but expect them to crash at least 1 car so a podium for a petrol car.

My dream scenario: privately entered Oreca Peugeot wins it.

Oreca is with Toyota now. The official team name won't have "Oreca" in it so I guess people will be wondering where they are.

[Wi000]

It would probably be somewhat bad PR for them to run a Peugeot stickered car when they're also involved with factory Toyota, don't you think ;)

Oreca is with Toyota now. The official team name won't have "Oreca" in it so I guess people will be wondering where they are.

hence my dream scenario

an even better scenario just appeared let Pescarolo win with the Pugs

[BigCHrome]

I think at least 1 Audi will have either big mechanical problems or a crash so we'll see at least 1 non-Audi on the podium.

[midgrid]

Gonna be an Audi dominated race but expect them to crash at least 1 car so a podium for a petrol car.

This. An undeveloped/unoptimised-for-latest-restrictions private Peugeot will not be in contention for victory (see Oreca last year or the Kolles Audis before that), Oreca-Toyota will be cautious and probably suffer from inevitable teething problems, and the remaining private LMP1 cars will also be too slow. I would, however, expect at least one of the Audis to suffer from problems that will allow a petrol car to finish on the podium.

Despite the withdrawal of Peugeot, LMP1 will still be my favourite class, for several reasons: it's the fastest class; the progress of the Toyota and other works-supported entries; and I anticipate a close battle for best-of-the-rest behind the Audis. GT-Pro should also be well worth watching.

I would love to eat these words at the end of the year.

Edited by midgrid, 19 January 2012 - 00:12.

[TF110]

Toyota's car just underwent a 3day test. They're testing at the end of the month again. At this rate they can go and do Sebring, which would basically be another 'test' they don't have to win. Spa is certain they'll race. And seeing as how the Diesels have been cut back about 50 MORE HP, Toyota's hybrid offering instant torque they stand quite a good chance. I believe they can sneak a win. This is the biggest car company in the world. Lets not forget their last LMP effort was the fastest car but only lost due to tire problems.

[patgaw]

if there is no surprises - audi will finish 1-2-3

[Lukin]

They won't have to push anywhere near as hard now either. If there was no Pug's to race would McNish have had to be so aggressive last year in traffic?

[404KF2]

Sad sad sad. I will still watch the race on TV but it will be BORING compared to the past 4 years.

[Peat]

I think we will see some draconian 'equalizing' by the ACO to make sure that there is at a least some kind of race. The WEC is thier product, it is noot in thier interest to let 1 team totally dominate.

[SonnyViceR]

Sad sad sad. I will still watch the race on TV but it will be BORING compared to the past 4 years.

There are three other classes to follow you know (plus P1 petrol). I never understood people who only follow Le Mans because of the diesels

[MadYarpen]

There are three other classes to follow you know (plus P1 petrol). I never understood people who only follow Le Mans because of the diesels

I watched whole race last year for the first time, and have to say that it was easiest and most natural option - they get most of the coverage after all.

[jamiegc]

There are three other classes to follow you know (plus P1 petrol). I never understood people who only follow Le Mans because of the diesels

Because 90% of the coverage revolves around the diesels.

[SonnyViceR]

Because 90% of the coverage revolves around the diesels.

Which is most unfortunate, for both viewers and manufacturers - especially for those in GT who invest large amonts of money for very little coverage outside expert media. But now that one of the major PR-machines is down the other classes should get some coverage they desperately deserve.

Even though LMP2 has always been my least favourite category in ACO-racing, it is growing out to be absoutely spectacular this year. Massive level of interest, mostly due to the fact that this is the best ever chance for P2s to participate LM (as full season WEC grants auto invite). Petrol class will also be more interesting than last year due to the introduction of Oreca Toyotas, but also because of the Strakka & JRM HPDs + the usual suspects ala Rebellion etc. And GTE again sees the brilliant catfght between works Corvettes, Porsches, Ferraris and others

Edited by SonnyViceR, 19 January 2012 - 11:07.

[Victor_RO]

Meanwhile, in Le Mans news, the entry list will be announced later today. Live streaming online can be found at http://www.lemans.or...-mans-2012.html on the official ACO website.

EDIT: 4pm CET.

[TF110]

In other news, DOME is returning with the S102.5 coupe, ran by Pescarolo!

EDIT: Drivers are Sebastian Bourdais and Nicolas Minassian English site here

Edited by TF110, 02 February 2012 - 09:52.

[dau]

Dome returns? Awesome news, never expected that. Hope everythings work out for them this time. Pescarolo and Bourdais/Minassian sound pretty good too.

[jonpollak]

Dario just mentioned Marino will be driving the DeltaWing.

Jp

[Andy865]

Toyota have signed up for the full WEC starting with spa.

[Victor_RO]

Entry list at http://www.endurance...rance-9438.html

[JRodrigues]

2 of the Audis are hybrids!

[dau]

Dario just mentioned Marino will be driving the DeltaWing.

Jp

He's on the official list. Hope they get that thing ready in time, i really want to see how good that concept is.

http://www.lemans.or...u_mans_2012.pdf

Only hybrid R18s in the WEC. Nice.

[Joonyah]

My head is saying that Audi will simply run away with this year's race, but my heart wants to see Pescarolo win this one with Bourdais, especially after what the team went through a couple of years ago.

[PNSD]

Looking at the entry list, even minus the Pug's it's a very, very strong lineup!!!

I'm looking forward to it as much as I have any other event. Who care's about the overall win when the P1 petrol battle looks to be awesome as it's ever been?!!

[Rob]

He's on the official list. Hope they get that thing ready in time, i really want to see how good that concept is.

I think it will surprise a lot of people.

[Meanstreak]

My head is saying that Audi will simply run away with this year's race, but my heart wants to see Pescarolo win this one with Bourdais, especially after what the team went through a couple of years ago.

With the Dome? From the announcement:

As I always speak out, Dome is not interested in or proud of strategy or techniques to manage the 24-hour long race because we are a racecar constructor. Le Mans 24 Hours is an endurance race indeed, but what Dome aims is the speed in the qualifying sessions in which the true performance of the racecars is tested. Incidents that could happen during the 24 hours, such as being collected by the car in front, engine blow, and puncture, are as out of control as natural disaster for a racecar constructor. For that reason our pride will never be hurt by a bad result due to such incidents during the 24 hours. Following the policy of ours, we have asked Pescarolo to cancel the 24 hour test Pescarolo had originally planned but have asked to have as many short tests as possible during which we will develop and set-up the car. I am pretty certain the guys in the French squad are shocked to know how we prepare for the 24-hour race, though...

That’s how we have ended up with the very egoistic programme for the 2012 Le Mans 24 Hours.

Edited by Meanstreak, 03 February 2012 - 18:09.

[wewantourdarbyback]

Henri has two cars this year, not just the Dome.

The second is based on the tub of the AMR-1.

[Victor_RO]

Henri has two cars this year, not just the Dome.

The second is based on the tub of the AMR-1.

But crucially only the tub (and rear end and crash structures apparently). The engine is a Judd V8 and the aero package will be brand-new.

[dau]

I think it will surprise a lot of people.

I certainly hope so. Have seen enough of those armchair experts stating how it's so obvious that this won't work - front tyres too skinny, too much weight at the back, will understeer like crazy or just flip over in the turns - uargh. But they're already behind their plan afaik, i hope they'll make it in time.

[inox]

So, majority of people think Audi will win the race comfortably. I have to admit I haven't followed Le Mans series closely. But having followed F1 for years, naturally aspirated engine of 3.4 liters should easily eclipse the power of diesel engine which is limited to about 500 Bhp level, even if it had to last 24 hours. So could you please educate me what is the problem? What are your estimates how much power those engines will produce?

[Victor_RO]

So, majority of people think Audi will win the race comfortably. I have to admit I haven't followed Le Mans series closely. But having followed F1 for years, naturally aspirated engine of 3.4 liters should easily eclipse the power of diesel engine which is limited to about 500 Bhp level, even if it had to last 24 hours. So could you please educate me what is the problem? What are your estimates how much power those engines will produce?

It's all balanced through air restrictors plus boost pressures for turbocharged engines, LMP1 engines are supposed to produce in the region of 550 bhp under current regulations no matter what. The difference is the massive torque of diesel engines compared to the N/A V8s... plus the amount of money Audi (and Peugeot) have been throwing behind engine development.

F1-spec engines breathe through a really massive airbox, LMP-spec engines breathe through a couple of ~3.5 cm-diameter restrictors and no other airflow is permitted to enter the engine. If the restrictors are plugged while the engine is running in post-race scrutineering, the engine should cut out, otherwise the car is thrown out of the results.

[eronrules]

also take into account the fuel milage from turbocharged diesel. being an engineer, i have great fondness for TDI's. couple that with audi's closed cockpit aero, you can't beat disel LMP1's in long tracks like La sarthe and Spa. but in twisty tracks, high revving petrols have upperhand on diesels.but that gap has reduced considerably in last 2/3 years. it's amazing how a 3.7L TDI v6 with single turbo produces so much torque. if i'm not mistaken, current TDI V6 have between 550-600 bhp and around 1000 n.m torque. but with peugeot withdrawing, will audi continue to run diesel???? i for one hope some other manufacturer comes with diesel or it'll be left alone in a pack of petrols, now with porsche coming and toyota with hybrid petrol.

[pingu666]

well they pushed for desiel for marketing reasons, and the aco gave the dervs favourable rules

[Victor_RO]

also take into account the fuel milage from turbocharged diesel. being an engineer, i have great fondness for TDI's. couple that with audi's closed cockpit aero, you can't beat disel LMP1's in long tracks like La sarthe and Spa. but in twisty tracks, high revving petrols have upperhand on diesels.but that gap has reduced considerably in last 2/3 years. it's amazing how a 3.7L TDI v6 with single turbo produces so much torque. if i'm not mistaken, current TDI V6 have between 550-600 bhp and around 1000 n.m torque. but with peugeot withdrawing, will audi continue to run diesel???? i for one hope some other manufacturer comes with diesel or it'll be left alone in a pack of petrols, now with porsche coming and toyota with hybrid petrol.

Apparently the Audi V6 has far less torque than the big 5.5 l turbodiesels used to have. And in terms of fuel mileage, that balance is done by fuel tank sizes, this year I think it's 60 liters for diesels vs 75 liters for everyone else in LMP1.

[Dan333SP]

It's a shame that Peugeot decided to not only pull out of the race, but to prevent any private teams from running their cars. ORECA proved at Sebring last year that a well run privateer diesel can beat anyone given a bit of misfortune for the factory cars, and I doubt that the Toyotas will be able to hold a candle to the Audis in terms of race pace. I'm excited to see how the new Pescarolo and the Dome 102.5 perform, but like the rest of you I'm assuming they will be in a scrap for 3rd or 4th at best behind the Audi train. As for LMP2, it's a shame that no one has decided on a Ferrari V8 to run in that class yet, because most of the entries are now Nissan, and we could use some auditory variety. As always, this class will probably be almost completely wiped out within the first 6 hours and the winner will struggle home behind the best GTE Pro car.
Speaking of GTE, that's the class I'll be most excited to follow. It's incredibly disappointing that BMW had 2 auto-invites for the 24 hours and chose not to send the RLL team, as they have proven to be the class of the GTE field in the ALMS. Even without them, I'll love seeing a factory Aston Martin mix it up with factory Corvettes and semi-works Porsche and Ferrari teams. Should be exciting.

[eronrules]

Apparently the Audi V6 has far less torque than the big 5.5 l turbodiesels used to have. And in terms of fuel mileage, that balance is done by fuel tank sizes, this year I think it's 60 liters for diesels vs 75 liters for everyone else in LMP1.

well dunno about 2012, but last year it was like this (WIKI)

75 litres (16.5 gallons) for petrol engines
73 litres (16 gallons) for hybrid petrol engines
65 litres (14.3 gallons) for diesel engines (Audi r18)
71 litres (15.6 gallons) for hybrid diesel engines (908 HDI FAP)

[King Six]

I think LMP2 should almost be renamed LMP-Am or something. It would seem more fitting.

[Victor_RO]

Meanwhile, Henri Pescarolo talking about the two cars he'll be running at Le Mans:

http://www.autonewsi...utos-37409.html

It's in French, but the basic ideas:

* Dome were the ones to contact him about running the S102.5. The car will race at Spa before heading to Le Mans.
* Not very complementary words about the Aston Martin AMR-One. He basically says that the whole car was garbage, apart from the chassis itself (the one positive comment that the drivers had about the AMR-One was good mechanical grip). So therefore the AMR-One tub is the only thing that remains, the tub is rebadged as a Pescarolo 03, a Judd V8 is inserted in the back, and the aerodynamic package is brand-new and totally Pescarolo.

[Meanstreak]

also take into account the fuel milage from turbocharged diesel. being an engineer, i have great fondness for TDI's. couple that with audi's closed cockpit aero, you can't beat disel LMP1's in long tracks like La sarthe and Spa. but in twisty tracks, high revving petrols have upperhand on diesels.but that gap has reduced considerably in last 2/3 years. it's amazing how a 3.7L TDI v6 with single turbo produces so much torque. if i'm not mistaken, current TDI V6 have between 550-600 bhp and around 1000 n.m torque. but with peugeot withdrawing, will audi continue to run diesel???? i for one hope some other manufacturer comes with diesel or it'll be left alone in a pack of petrols, now with porsche coming and toyota with hybrid petrol.

I for one don't. That would be the worst case scenario (part II). The real issue was (is) that two manufacturers wanted diesel and zero (involved) manufacturers wanted petrol. It's not like I wanted to Peugeot to quit, but in terms of politicking, it should be now more balanced. 50/50 between the two manufacturer teams.

2014 and the new fuel or energy based engine formula can't come soon enough. For sure it won't suddenly solve everything, but playing around with energy content should be easier than the current mess with restrictors, boost pressures, weights (previously) and tank sizes.

Edited by Meanstreak, 04 February 2012 - 21:42.

[eronrules]

Meanwhile, Henri Pescarolo talking about the two cars he'll be running at Le Mans:

http://www.autonewsi...utos-37409.html

It's in French, but the basic ideas:

* Dome were the ones to contact him about running the S102.5. The car will race at Spa before heading to Le Mans.
* Not very complementary words about the Aston Martin AMR-One. He basically says that the whole car was garbage, apart from the chassis itself (the one positive comment that the drivers had about the AMR-One was good mechanical grip). So therefore the AMR-One tub is the only thing that remains, the tub is rebadged as a Pescarolo 03, a Judd V8 is inserted in the back, and the aerodynamic package is brand-new and totally Pescarolo.

a funny notion regarding Dome -pescorolo joint venture according to wiki

n February 2012, Dome announced that it will enter an updated S102 in the 2012 24 Hours of Le Mans. The updated car, designated the S102.5, will be powered by a Judd 3.4L V8. In a departure for Dome, the team will self-fund race operations, rather than lease their car to a separately funded race team. Dome have contracted with Pescarolo for race operations, and have instructed the team to focus development on outright speed over one lap, rather than on reliability or endurance pace for a 24 hour race.

i don't get it, then what's the point contesting le mans or endurance racing?????????