119 replies to this topic

[packapoo]

Probably should put up a poll but don't know how.

Hands up those who feel sorry for Massa having to defend his existence in F1 in 2012 in the absolute woofer Ferrari have presented him.

It's a set-up!

They clearly don't want you Felippe.

[RoutariEnjinu]

I think there is some political manoeuvring and set up, especially with how explicit and "on record" this being his trial year is. Even at the launch of the new car it was brought up. So unless, somehow, he annihilates Alonso, he is out. Probably with Kubica coming in.

That said, he is one of my least favourite drivers, so I won't miss his presence in Formula 1 much.

[Gilles4Ever]

It doesn't matter how good or bad the car is, he will be judged against his team mate.
IMO the writing is on the wall he will be be there till the end of the season at most.

[kosmos]

I think he is out, the only thing that will make him stay for 2013 is if he does better than Alonso, or if he is key to help the team to get the WCC. You can "smell" in the air that Ferrari want to try something new, and Massa is old "furniture" at this point. But I think or I want to think that the car will be much better this year, and he will do much better as well.

[slideways]

Which team would want him? Maybe Ferrari would trade/place him at STR or Sauber.

PS. I felt sorry for Massa for the trauma he went through in '09, especially the timing considering the rise in form we were seeing. But Ferrari have treated him extremely well, and given him two full seasons since the accident to get back up to speed. If he doesn't perform and they give him the axe, there should be no hard feelings either way.

Edited by slideways, 04 February 2012 - 08:52.

[jamiegc]

Probably with Kubica coming in..

[Gilles4Ever]

care to actually contribute to the discussion and elaborate?

[primer]

Hands up those who feel sorry for Massa having to defend his existence in F1 in 2012 in the absolute woofer Ferrari have presented him.

I do not feel sorry for any of these c#nts. Massa has had his fair shot in F1, he has had more opportunities than most professional drivers. He is clearly not a tier-one driver.

[alfista]

Honestly which team would want him? Maybe Ferrari would trade/place him at STR or Sauber.

Yes, question is not "if" but rather "when" and "how" Massa will lose his Ferrari seat. Pérez to Ferrari and Massa to Sauber can make sense. Felipe Baby will turn into F1-furniture there and can make a long career in the way his compatriot Barrichello did. No-one can deny Massa has both speed and experience but for some reasons can't put them to work. But he can be a good yardstick for young pilots. If they can beat Felipe, they are good, if not - find another profession (or bring more money with you).

[primer]

care to actually contribute to the discussion and elaborate?

Kubica is over. Done. Finished. He was never so special that a top team is going to waste their time chancing defective goods when they can just as well get a new talent from GP2 or some other series.

[Hollow]

He thinks he can still beat Alonso. LOL. He's got small brains, anyone noticed how pissed he was yesterday?

[Smile17]

He thinks he can still beat Alonso. LOL. He's got small brains, anyone noticed how pissed he was yesterday?

Yes I was surprised about that too, you're not the only one who noticed that. Anyway, I don't think Massa will have to beat Alonso to stay at Ferrari. If he drives decent and contributes to the WCC, some podium finishes (whatever the level of the car is ofcourse), he might be good. but no way are they going to ask him to beat his team mate.

[jamiegc]

Kubica is over. Done. Finished.

What this guy said.

[alfista]

This picture from another thread pretty well sums up Massa's situation:

Edited by alfista, 04 February 2012 - 09:39.

[DrF]

I'm not sure how Massa can shine when his team mate is 'faster than you'.

And what top driver is going to move to Ferrari when it is clearly struggling to develop a decent car, race strategy is chaotic and has a clear #1 driver who doesn't like to be challenged?

If Massa is prepared to stay then Ferrari should keep him. A better driver will only go and upset Alonso and lead to the shenanigans we saw in 2007.

[F1Newbie]

Kubica is over. Done. Finished. He was never so special that a top team is going to waste their time chancing defective goods when they can just as well get a new talent from GP2 or some other series.

Sad but true. I don't feel sorry for Massa. F1 isn't a NGO sport. You sh*t, you out.

[MikeTekRacing]

Sad but true. I don't feel sorry for Massa. F1 isn't a NGO sport. You sh*t, you out.

you could say the same about kubica. it's not f1's fault he can't race anymore so what do you feel sad?

[garoidb]

Which team would want him? Maybe Ferrari would trade/place him at STR or Sauber.

PS. I felt sorry for Massa for the trauma he went through in '09, especially the timing considering the rise in form we were seeing. But Ferrari have treated him extremely well, and given him two full seasons since the accident to get back up to speed. If he doesn't perform and they give him the axe, there should be no hard feelings either way.

Yes, and this will be his third making a total of seven seasons at Ferrari. As far as I can remember, only Schumi has had more. He is a likeable guy, and I'd like to see him stay in F1 with another team, but Ferrari (and the others) are more than entitled to shuffle the deck every few years.

[bourbon]

2010 Pre-season, Massa had an interview with Brazillian journos, blaming Alonso for costing him the championship in 2008 - knowningly cheating and taking the win in Singapore when the crash he and his cohorts planned occurred. Massa withdrew the comments a short while later.

2010, Massa came back and surprised. At the start of the season, he qualified high and raced from near the front. Before long, he led the championship.

Then mysteriously, he couldn't qualify; his racing faltered and he lost the lead. Alonso ingloriously thug jumped him into the pits and Massa's only response came through the team voice. 'The team mates are getting along fabulously, it was an okay move'. His driving started to fade. Just before Germany Massa seemed to have forgotten how to drive an F1 car altogether. His head injury, which hadn't bothered him in the least at the start of the season, was suddenly the reason for the failed skills he had shown since returning. Hilariously, no reference was made at all by his fantastic start by the journos, go figure. What was going on? Clarification came in Germany when someway, somehow, Massa found his mojo again and was in the lead of the race - gunning it like days of old. Then, "Alonso is faster than you" happened, so Massa slowed down to let his faster teammate pass. 100,000 euros later, admist Massa making alot of confusing statements about how everything was fine and not fine at the same time, the FIA decided that team orders should be investigated and allowed again. For the remainder of the season, Massa crashed, dillied, dallied, meandered, failed to finish and well...basically didn't show up.

Alas 2011 - new season - a fresh start for all the drivers! But for Massa, it would be the end of 2010 all over again! He never stood a chance right from the start. He couldn't get on with the car set up, the tyres, the balance, or Hamilton. Everything that could go wrong, did. Everything that couldn't possibly go wrong, did. He was able to retain his hard earned reputation from the end of 2010.

So here we are in 2012. Ferrari is still looking for Alonso's first WDC with them. Ferrari had a good enough car for the win in 2010, but not 2011 - but no matter. It would appear everyone working on those two cars has been fired. 2012 should bring a new car and with it, another chance for Massa...to support Alonso's run for the title.

If Massa leaves Ferrari at the end end of the year, then he already knows he is going - he's known since the start of 2011, imo. I'm thinking that is why he doesn't seem to care that his team constantly threatens, maligns and bad mouths him in the press. I have to imagine that Massa and Ferrari have an arrangement; he's raking in the money while putting up with whatver they dole out, knowing that he is to go at some specified point, or one of several. Maybe I am wrong, but that is how it seems to me.

Edited by bourbon, 04 February 2012 - 10:43.

[Szoelloe]

His time is surely up at Ferrari. For sure.... He knows that too. Still, he has to fair way better against FA this season, because it will affect his future career in F1.

[Smile17]

Massa just needs a better car. I believe he still has it. Ferrari are the ones that need to up their game first, by giving him a competitive car.

Edited by Smile17, 04 February 2012 - 10:30.

[Disgrace]

I've had enough of the whiny little so-and-so. The sooner he's out of a top seat the better.

[FenderJaguar]

Massa might surprise if the car is good but it is more surprising that he has managed to stay with Ferrari for 2011 and 2012. Ferrari must have been deeply in love with Massa for a long time.

Edit: I don't really think he will surprise this season either.

Edited by FenderJaguar, 04 February 2012 - 10:34.

[xlr8]

Massa just needs a better car. I believe he still has it. Ferrari are the ones that need to up their game first, by giving him a competitive car.

[H2H]

He is no longer the driver he was before Hungary and the preference of Alonso inside Ferrari has cost him moral and performance, knocking down a driver which is not the strongest mentally.

All in all a more competitive car and a couple of good races especially when relative to Alonos could help him a lot. Said that it is not surprising that his seat is not secure for the next year, as Ferrari most likey wants a faster and more consistent driver which still plays the second fiddle behind the Nr.1 driver.

[F1Newbie]

you could say the same about kubica. it's not f1's fault he can't race anymore so what do you feel sad?

I feel sad for Kubica because is a great driver. He isn't racing at the moment because of an accident he had, nothing to do with his talent.

Edited by F1Newbie, 04 February 2012 - 11:09.

[rolf123]

Mark my words, Massa will win the WDC this year. He has never been one to extract 3 tenths more from a dodgy car than anyone else could but give him a fast car he can have confidence with and he will dominate. Unless they sabotage his car like they did with Barichello, Massa has a great shot at WDC. I will put my money on it too (even though I'm broke).

[Szoelloe]

Mark my words, Massa will win the WDC this year. He has never been one to extract 3 tenths more from a dodgy car than anyone else could but give him a fast car he can have confidence with and he will dominate. Unless they sabotage his car like they did with Barichello, Massa has a great shot at WDC. I will put my money on it too (even though I'm broke).

That's brave

[rodlamas]

I feel sad for Kubica because is a great driver. He isn't racing at the moment because of an accident he had, nothing to do with his talent.

Ask all Ayrton (dito, F1 fans) if history wouldn't be different without that 1st of May...

[Fastcake]

I've had enough of the whiny little so-and-so. The sooner he's out of a top seat the better.

Agreed. He's had more than his fair share of a chance now and can't make anything out of it. Time to go, be interesting enough to see if he can go anywhere else.

[Laster]

Mark my words, Massa will win the WDC this year. He has never been one to extract 3 tenths more from a dodgy car than anyone else could but give him a fast car he can have confidence with and he will dominate. Unless they sabotage his car like they did with Barichello, Massa has a great shot at WDC. I will put my money on it too (even though I'm broke).

Are you broke because you bet on Massa the previous seasons?

[LewEngBridewell]

Massa has had his day, and clearly not up to the standard of the top 5 racers. For two seasons now, Vettel, Hamilton, Alonso, Button and Webber have been up there at the top, while Massa has floated around with the Mercs.

Come on, let some newer talent have a chance!

[Desdirodeabike]

2010 Pre-season, Massa had an interview with Brazillian journos, blaming Alonso for costing him the championship in 2008 - knowningly cheating and taking the win in Singapore when the crash he and his cohorts planned occurred. Massa withdrew the comments a short while later.

2010, Massa came back and surprised. At the start of the season, he qualified high and raced from near the front. Before long, he led the championship.

Then mysteriously, he couldn't qualify; his racing faltered and he lost the lead. Alonso ingloriously thug jumped him into the pits and Massa's only response came through the team voice. 'The team mates are getting along fabulously, it was an okay move'. His driving started to fade. Just before Germany Massa seemed to have forgotten how to drive an F1 car altogether. His head injury, which hadn't bothered him in the least at the start of the season, was suddenly the reason for the failed skills he had shown since returning. Hilariously, no reference was made at all by his fantastic start by the journos, go figure. What was going on? Clarification came in Germany when someway, somehow, Massa found his mojo again and was in the lead of the race - gunning it like days of old. Then, "Alonso is faster than you" happened, so Massa slowed down to let his faster teammate pass. 100,000 euros later, admist Massa making alot of confusing statements about how everything was fine and not fine at the same time, the FIA decided that team orders should be investigated and allowed again. For the remainder of the season, Massa crashed, dillied, dallied, meandered, failed to finish and well...basically didn't show up.

Alas 2011 - new season - a fresh start for all the drivers! But for Massa, it would be the end of 2010 all over again! He never stood a chance right from the start. He couldn't get on with the car set up, the tyres, the balance, or Hamilton. Everything that could go wrong, did. Everything that couldn't possibly go wrong, did. He was able to retain his hard earned reputation from the end of 2010.

So here we are in 2012. Ferrari is still looking for Alonso's first WDC with them. Ferrari had a good enough car for the win in 2010, but not 2011 - but no matter. It would appear everyone working on those two cars has been fired. 2012 should bring a new car and with it, another chance for Massa...to support Alonso's run for the title.

If Massa leaves Ferrari at the end end of the year, then he already knows he is going - he's known since the start of 2011, imo. I'm thinking that is why he doesn't seem to care that his team constantly threatens, maligns and bad mouths him in the press. I have to imagine that Massa and Ferrari have an arrangement; he's raking in the money while putting up with whatver they dole out, knowing that he is to go at some specified point, or one of several. Maybe I am wrong, but that is how it seems to me.

Great post
There has always been something rotten in the state of Maranello.

[Wi000]

I think he is out, the only thing that will make him stay for 2013 is if he does better than Alonso, or if he is key to help the team to get the WCC. You can "smell" in the air that Ferrari want to try something new, and Massa is old "furniture" at this point. But I think or I want to think that the car will be much better this year, and he will do much better as well.

Agreed, don't think he'll better Alonso but if he contributes significantly to a possible WCC and acts a team-player I could see him there in 2013 but it's not very likely.

[wrcva]

Massa might surprise if the car is good but it is more surprising that he has managed to stay with Ferrari for 2011 and 2012. Ferrari must have been deeply in love with Massa for a long time.

Massa was the brand ambassador for Santander Brasil. He had an independent (of Ferrari) and direct payroll relationship ($5-7M ? per year) with the bank and Botin, CEO.
Since Botin is the guy who personally controls Ferrari sponsorship -- LdM and Dom could not possibly fire him while he was still representing Santander.
IIRC, Santander fired Massa from this role late 2011 (the new ambassador is a soccer player @ $7M/yr). So, that is a green light to Ferrari for doing whatever with Massa...

So, if you follow the money, it is not that surprising... Brasil is/was one the most important countries in Latin America for Santander's banking business - since 2009...

[krapmeister]

2010 Pre-season, Massa had an interview with Brazillian journos, blaming Alonso for costing him the championship in 2008 - knowningly cheating and taking the win in Singapore when the crash he and his cohorts planned occurred. Massa withdrew the comments a short while later.

2010, Massa came back and surprised. At the start of the season, he qualified high and raced from near the front. Before long, he led the championship.

Then mysteriously, he couldn't qualify; his racing faltered and he lost the lead. Alonso ingloriously thug jumped him into the pits and Massa's only response came through the team voice. 'The team mates are getting along fabulously, it was an okay move'. His driving started to fade. Just before Germany Massa seemed to have forgotten how to drive an F1 car altogether. His head injury, which hadn't bothered him in the least at the start of the season, was suddenly the reason for the failed skills he had shown since returning. Hilariously, no reference was made at all by his fantastic start by the journos, go figure. What was going on? Clarification came in Germany when someway, somehow, Massa found his mojo again and was in the lead of the race - gunning it like days of old. Then, "Alonso is faster than you" happened, so Massa slowed down to let his faster teammate pass. 100,000 euros later, admist Massa making alot of confusing statements about how everything was fine and not fine at the same time, the FIA decided that team orders should be investigated and allowed again. For the remainder of the season, Massa crashed, dillied, dallied, meandered, failed to finish and well...basically didn't show up.

Alas 2011 - new season - a fresh start for all the drivers! But for Massa, it would be the end of 2010 all over again! He never stood a chance right from the start. He couldn't get on with the car set up, the tyres, the balance, or Hamilton. Everything that could go wrong, did. Everything that couldn't possibly go wrong, did. He was able to retain his hard earned reputation from the end of 2010.

So here we are in 2012. Ferrari is still looking for Alonso's first WDC with them. Ferrari had a good enough car for the win in 2010, but not 2011 - but no matter. It would appear everyone working on those two cars has been fired. 2012 should bring a new car and with it, another chance for Massa...to support Alonso's run for the title.

If Massa leaves Ferrari at the end end of the year, then he already knows he is going - he's known since the start of 2011, imo. I'm thinking that is why he doesn't seem to care that his team constantly threatens, maligns and bad mouths him in the press. I have to imagine that Massa and Ferrari have an arrangement; he's raking in the money while putting up with whatver they dole out, knowing that he is to go at some specified point, or one of several. Maybe I am wrong, but that is how it seems to me.

Careful Bourbon - conspiracy theories such as this makes you sound like a Webber fan...

[Massa_f1]

I admit being a Massa fan that his best days are most likely behind him, but some of the hate from this board to wards him is uncalled for in my opinion. He is a nice guy, who has struggled mentally since his accident and Germany 2010 being told to move over. His start to the 2010 season was not that bad, but after that Germany incident he has never been the same, and has stayed in the slump he is now in.

I think he would do better outside of Ferrari anyway.

[Smile17]

Mark my words, Massa will win the WDC this year. He has never been one to extract 3 tenths more from a dodgy car than anyone else could but give him a fast car he can have confidence with and he will dominate. Unless they sabotage his car like they did with Barichello, Massa has a great shot at WDC. I will put my money on it too (even though I'm broke).

That would be -FANSTASTIC. Just imagine what kind of headlines/stories that would create. It would be massive. I would love it. IF the F2012 is a winner -Massa will surprise many.

[Les]

I've had enough of the whiny little so-and-so. The sooner he's out of a top seat the better.

I can't understand why your sitting on the fence. Why don't you tell us how you really feel

Seriously though I also feel that Massa has somehow been able to hold onto the Ferrari seat a couple of years longer than he had a right to. His time is up.

[Showty]

Kubica is over. Done. Finished. He was never so special that a top team is going to waste their time chancing defective goods when they can just as well get a new talent from GP2 or some other series.

He was that special, at least to me, clearly a top driver, i still remember those mad laps at Monaco 2010, Spa 2010, the last laps at Singapur 2010 or just season 2008.

The main thing, will he able to recover? and then, if he is, will he gain its old form?, i think the odds are against that, but i can understand why Ferrari wants to take a look at him, there´s nothing to lose.

However, i don´t think Massa needs to do that much in order to stay, he´s only asked to contribute regularly, last 2 years it has been almos a 1 Ferrari-2 RB-2 McLaren battle, he just need to be there in the top 6, score regular points, score a few podiums, perhaps a win, Alonso is the man Ferrari expects to fight for the WDC, he has the weight on his shoulders, and not Massa.

[maximilian]

Mark my words, Massa will win the WDC this year. He has never been one to extract 3 tenths more from a dodgy car than anyone else could but give him a fast car he can have confidence with and he will dominate. Unless they sabotage his car like they did with Barichello, Massa has a great shot at WDC. I will put my money on it too (even though I'm broke).

And those kinds of decisions are probably exactly why you're broke

Edited by maximilian, 04 February 2012 - 13:32.

[bub]

2012 should bring a new car and with it, another chance for Massa...to support Alonso's run for the title.

[bub]

Massa just needs a better car. I believe he still has it. Ferrari are the ones that need to up their game first, by giving him a competitive car.

+1

[Mastah]

Mark my words, Massa will win the WDC this year. He has never been one to extract 3 tenths more from a dodgy car than anyone else could but give him a fast car he can have confidence with and he will dominate. Unless they sabotage his car like they did with Barichello, Massa has a great shot at WDC. I will put my money on it too (even though I'm broke).

OK, I'm bookmarking this post. But I guess when you will be proved completely wrong at the end of the season, you will say it was sabotage. Still it'll be funny though.

No matter how fast F2012 is, he'll finish at best 6th in WDC. He needs to change team and mentally rebuild, becasue Felipe is nowhere near as bad as he was last year. The thing is there are only few drivers who can MATCH Fred, not to mention better him. Felipe is just another victim of Fernando's huge talent. After all Fisico haven't become useless driver in 2 seasons...

[MikeTekRacing]

I feel sad for Kubica because is a great driver. He isn't racing at the moment because of an accident he had, nothing to do with his talent.

yet you ignore massa's accident and the difference in form before and after the accident

and if you want to be cynic about it robert had an injury from making a mistake (driving error) while rallying (dangerous sport) and not thinking too much about his f1 career. felipe hit a spring boucing from a car

[InSearchOfThe]

I'd like Massa to be this years Button, and challenge Alonso [team leader] for race wins. I doubt it though because Fred is locked in at Ferrari. If he shows any consistency he just might save his job. If they [Ferrari] have Perez in the seat already for '13, it could be a long year for Phil.

[rolf123]

Well people may laugh at me but history has shown that when Massa gets good equipment, he performs. A bit like drivers such as Damon Hill, for example, who I remember Renault's Bernard Dudot rueing the loss of.

He knows how to put the car on pole and lead away from the front. If Ferrari have the best car on the grid next year then he will be right up there and Alonso won't find it so easy. If Ferrari are level with the other cars then he will become an also-ran.

It really comes down to the car. And I believe Ferrari will be back up there. A lot depends on Red Bull. I can imagine Newey running out of bright ideas this season and being conservative and sticking with the same concept as last year except for the nose and this will be their downfall.

Just look at Webber and what he has to put up with. In many ways, Webber and Massa have a similar situation in their respective teams.

Felipe if you are reading this, I believe in you!


PS no I am not broke because of betting on Felipe. But he is currently 80-1 to win the WDC! Incredible odds!

[fieraku]

Alonso is the sniper and Massa the scout,and he isn't even doing that right. With this years car built 100% to Alonso's specifications he stands no chance.

[Barri]

2010 Pre-season, Massa had an interview with Brazillian journos, blaming Alonso for costing him the championship in 2008 - knowningly cheating and taking the win in Singapore when the crash he and his cohorts planned occurred. Massa withdrew the comments a short while later.

2010, Massa came back and surprised. At the start of the season, he qualified high and raced from near the front. Before long, he led the championship.

Then mysteriously, he couldn't qualify; his racing faltered and he lost the lead. Alonso ingloriously thug jumped him into the pits and Massa's only response came through the team voice. 'The team mates are getting along fabulously, it was an okay move'. His driving started to fade. Just before Germany Massa seemed to have forgotten how to drive an F1 car altogether. His head injury, which hadn't bothered him in the least at the start of the season, was suddenly the reason for the failed skills he had shown since returning. Hilariously, no reference was made at all by his fantastic start by the journos, go figure. What was going on? Clarification came in Germany when someway, somehow, Massa found his mojo again and was in the lead of the race - gunning it like days of old. Then, "Alonso is faster than you" happened, so Massa slowed down to let his faster teammate pass. 100,000 euros later, admist Massa making alot of confusing statements about how everything was fine and not fine at the same time, the FIA decided that team orders should be investigated and allowed again. For the remainder of the season, Massa crashed, dillied, dallied, meandered, failed to finish and well...basically didn't show up.

Alas 2011 - new season - a fresh start for all the drivers! But for Massa, it would be the end of 2010 all over again! He never stood a chance right from the start. He couldn't get on with the car set up, the tyres, the balance, or Hamilton. Everything that could go wrong, did. Everything that couldn't possibly go wrong, did. He was able to retain his hard earned reputation from the end of 2010.

So here we are in 2012. Ferrari is still looking for Alonso's first WDC with them. Ferrari had a good enough car for the win in 2010, but not 2011 - but no matter. It would appear everyone working on those two cars has been fired. 2012 should bring a new car and with it, another chance for Massa...to support Alonso's run for the title.

If Massa leaves Ferrari at the end end of the year, then he already knows he is going - he's known since the start of 2011, imo. I'm thinking that is why he doesn't seem to care that his team constantly threatens, maligns and bad mouths him in the press. I have to imagine that Massa and Ferrari have an arrangement; he's raking in the money while putting up with whatver they dole out, knowing that he is to go at some specified point, or one of several. Maybe I am wrong, but that is how it seems to me.

I'm glad one person here understands the situation. Great post mate!

[Mastah]

Well people may laugh at me but history has shown that

is justified, as you make claims such as following car has to lift in Eau Rogue, which isn't true since, I don't know, 2001?

I think the DRS will make for a good race. Don't forget that Eau Rouge is flat and yet you cannot tail a car through there due to the infamous dirty air.

when Massa gets good equipment, he performs. A bit like drivers such as Damon Hill, for example, who I remember Renault's Bernard Dudot rueing the loss of.

He knows how to put the car on pole and lead away from the front. If Ferrari have the best car on the grid next year then he will be right up there and Alonso won't find it so easy. If Ferrari are level with the other cars then he will become an also-ran.

It really comes down to the car.

So much wrong. Felipe had good equipment in 2010 and what happened? Beaten in qualis (who was on pole twice? Felipe?), beaten in races (who has won 4 times? Felipe?) almost beaten by inferior Mercedes and Renault . And yet you believe he can have a go at Fernando, the best driver in F1? See ya in November, my prediction is he'll be over 100 points behind Fred and at best 6th in WDC in his last season as a Ferrari driver .