80 replies to this topic

[kosmos]

What do you think?, there is a thread for this discussion but I think a poll is nedeed.

Edited by kosmos, 28 March 2012 - 12:49.

[Jon83]

Well if you are saying 'mid-season' then this is assuming Massa doesn't find some form relative to Alonso before then.

By then, Perez may have binned his Sauber every second race (for all we know)

Perez is going places but I don't think it would be fair or right to put him in after the season has started (despite Martin Whitmarsh's wise-cracks the other day about him putting pressure on 'a certain Mr Massa'

[Tsarwash]

Perez has a contract with Sauber. I don't see any good reason why Sauber would let him go mid-season. Sauber would need a good replacement before they would consider releasing Perez. Ferrari would have to pay a LOT of money.

[PistonHead]

In this era of F1, with testing being so limited, it's difficult for a driver who has started the season in a different car to come in mid-season and immediately find his rhythm in another one, particularly one that's tricky to drive like the Ferrari ( as shown by Fisi in '09). If Perez came to Ferrari and struggled it'd be a huge blow to his confidence. My gut feeling is that Perez probably would do a better job than Massa but it's a gamble and it suits all parties involved to wait until 2013.

Regardless, I think there's gonna be some other stumbling blocks to a mid-season switch anyway (Sauber's Mexican sponsorship for one).

Edited by PistonHead, 28 March 2012 - 12:42.

[undersquare]

Can Perez do worse than 0 points?

[Disgrace]

Perez could ruin his career by moving to a different (bad) car, without testing and against Alonso. Unless they offer a multi-year contract and no expectations in year one, then he might be tempted.

[Jaybools]

No chance. Will stunt Perez's development big time. Huge risk and all the bad PR might not be worth it for a slightly slower Perez because hes not used to the car/procedure. Wait until next year, Ferrari aren't going to win WCC regardless.

[Seanspeed]

Where is the option:

- No, he would do much better with a winter of preparation.

[kosmos]

I voted for the last option, I think Ferrari truly cares and they are committed to Massa. He has to do something really bad, like crashing into Alonso in order to get fired from Ferrari.

Where is the option:

- No, he would do much better with a winter of preparation.

Added for you

Edited by kosmos, 28 March 2012 - 12:49.

[flowerdew]

I say no, but not exactly for just one of the reasons listed. I don't think he's quite ready, though obviously after Sunday this poll doesn't annoy me like similar questions did last year. I'd still like to see some more solid results strung together this year before we just hand the seat to him, but Sunday went a long way towards convincing me.

Also, I don't care for mid-season replacements. Ferrari has committed vocally and repeatedly to Massa for this season, and I want them to honor that. I want them to give him all the support and the best tools they can this year. If this is to be his last season, I want it to be diignified. Mid-season replacements feel cheap and tacky, not the way I like to see Ferrari do things.

Mostly, though, Pérez is a Sauber driver. For most of this, I've been speaking as a Ferrari fan, but now I am speaking as a Sauber fan. Let him be a Sauber driver. I hate the idea of Ferrari just plucking him up and whisking him away without a care. I hope they're not able to do so even if they do want to. I'm not moved by the argument that he's part of the Academy. At the end of the season, if he's continued to deliver on his promise, let's talk. This year, he drives for Sauber.

[pingu666]

Id say go for it. its ferrari after all. and im sure they will fix the car.

besides his team mate was dumped into a car with no/little testing and was totaly badass

[One]

Anyone stepping into a difficult car in the middle of season, got to lose his credibility a bit time, he must used to a car that suits other and know little about how to change it to his liking, pressure rises, and so on. Bad Timing really, that makes anyone to change team med season difficult.

[Dunder]

Don't see any benefit for anyone.

Too expensive for Ferrari (buying out Massa's contract and compensating Sauber).

For Perez going to a new team, especially one with a car with recalcitrant handling, would be tough in the middle of a season. He would be much better advised to wait it out unless he sees more competition for the seat at the start of 2013 (Webber?).

[engel]

nope not a good idea, Perez long term will better off negotiating a deal for next year. Give himself the time to build a rapport with the team preseason and time in the car. If he goes to a team that is 100% geared towards Alonso midseason with no testing he's gonna get destroyed.

[NJB13]

Ferrari's first choice is for Felipe to find some form, and I don't think they've given up on that yet. As to the "long term" replacement for Felipe, meaning no sooner than next year and more likely the year after, I'm pretty certain Seb is at the top of their shopping list. Both sides have been saying complimentary stuff about each other for a while now.

[engel]

Ferrari's first choice is for Felipe to find some form, and I don't think they've given up on that yet. As to the "long term" replacement for Felipe, meaning no sooner than next year and more likely the year after, I'm pretty certain Seb is at the top of their shopping list. Both sides have been saying complimentary stuff about each other for a while now.

I think Vettel is under contract till the end of 2014, lots can change in 2 years. And unless Massa pulls off a magic recovery to 2008 levels of performance I doubt Ferrari will carry him for another 2 years. Yeah they don't have a shot at the WCC this year but they still need a number 2 that can take points off McL/RB to help Alonso's WDC chances.

[undersquare]

I think it'd be a good idea for FERRARI. Since at 30 Massa is not gonna get any better. Perez can only be an improvement.

Whether it's a good idea for Perez - depends how good he is. He'd need Smedley, then he would have a chance I think.

Good for the sport? No. Teams should keep to their word.

Good for McLaren/RBR/Renault/Merc? Probably not a good thing. Massa is the best bet for the rivals, to offset Nando. Bit of a gift in fact lol.

It depends on expectation too, Perez in 2013 can only be better if he starts this year. Does the May test then the races, would be my choice if I were a Ferrari fan.

[cheapracer]

Since at 30 Massa is not gonna get any better.

Schumacher, Webber, Button, Rubens - long list of drivers showing no deterioration, sometimes even improving at 30+.


Genuine question - did I miss something, was Perez slated for Ferrari or is this just a whim thread due to one performance last weekend?

FWIW, Massa ain't going anywhere but I expect a vacant seat at Fazza next year.

[NJB13]

I think Vettel is under contract till the end of 2014, lots can change in 2 years. And unless Massa pulls off a magic recovery to 2008 levels of performance I doubt Ferrari will carry him for another 2 years. Yeah they don't have a shot at the WCC this year but they still need a number 2 that can take points off McL/RB to help Alonso's WDC chances.

Contracts don't seem to prove impenetrable barriers to SF - if they want someone they go for them. Remember Kimi-4-Nando.

[jrg19]

Perez should stay with Sauber get another season under his belt then make the move its on for him.

[Dunder]

Schumacher, Webber, Button, Rubens - long list of drivers showing no deterioration, sometimes even improving at 30+.


Genuine question - did I miss something, was Perez slated for Ferrari or is this just a whim thread due to one performance last weekend?

FWIW, Massa ain't going anywhere but I expect a vacant seat at Fazza next year.

He is part of the Ferrari academy and there was speculation before last weekend.

[engel]

Schumacher, Webber, Button, Rubens - long list of drivers showing no deterioration, sometimes even improving at 30+.


Genuine question - did I miss something, was Perez slated for Ferrari or is this just a whim thread due to one performance last weekend?

FWIW, Massa ain't going anywhere but I expect a vacant seat at Fazza next year.

Perez was part of Ferrari's young driver program, was assumed his placement at Sauber was a chance for him to get some experience before getting a shot at a Ferrari seat

[cheapracer]

Ok thanks Engel and Dunder

[undersquare]

Schumacher, Webber, Button, Rubens - long list of drivers showing no deterioration, sometimes even improving at 30+.

FWIW, Massa ain't going anywhere but I expect a vacant seat at Fazza next year.

Well it's 2.5+ years since his accident, and at 30 drivers only 'get better' if like Jense they get into a better team/car at 30. Something has to change for them, and there is nothing changing for Felipe at Ferrari. Showing no deterioration is not nearly enough.

There are so many better drivers than FM now, it's a blessing for the other teams. If you polled the other TP's: Massa or Perez, they'd ALL say Massa please!

[One]

I think it'd be a good idea for FERRARI. Since at 30 Massa is not gonna get any better. Perez can only be an improvement.

You could also say that because Massa is 30, he has enough exp to pull more than a younger one to do a trick or two with a difficult car. Massa's experiences in Ferrari cars should help him change the course of car development. It can be a great challenge for Massa besides trying just to run quicker.

If Massa has to go, then, perhaps someone who is not in the car but has more exp. like Sutil for change? He will not get two year contract.

[Creepy]

I do think from the Ferrari's point of view Pérez would be a good asset. But I don't think it makes sense for Pérez himself right now taking into account Sauber is likely to have a quicker car than the Ferrari for most of the season if not all (in both dry and wet conditions). Besides, it is good to stay in Sauber for him this year so he doesn't get unnecessary pressure. In addition he's right now in a team where he's the favorite.

[Smile17]

Ferrari won't fire Massa (atleast not this season) so this poll is useless. And no, Perez won't be much better than Massa.

[Collective]

It would be an incredibly stupid decision on his part:

1) Ferrari has problems with the car,
2) The car is likely very complicated and tough to set up
3) He has never driven that car

If he goes mid-season, I can guarantee a massive disaster of Fisichella to Ferrari proportions.

I think he could do a good job in Ferrari if he is given a winter to learn the car and make it work for him.

[IceSkyrim]

Massa is a TC era driver, meaning that he doesn't have finesse with the accelerator.
Massa is over accelerating and chewing his tires.
Even Schumy managed to evolve and adapt to non TC.

Racing environment has changed, Massa couldn't adapt so... it's extintion time to him.

[PNSD]

How often in the past has replacing any driver mid season worked out for the better?

IMO Perez is still unproven. He's had a couple good races, but he's had as many good races in the Sauber as Kobayashi IMO. Malaysia was epic, but it was one race in changeable conditions, hardly a true barometer.

I'd like to see him complete a second season at Sauber, just so we know how good he is, rather than shove in a Ferrari where he will be against F1's current best driver.

[PNSD]

Even Schumy managed to evolve and adapt to non TC.

Schumacher has driven more F1 seasons without TC than he has with TC. Even before the comeback. Your post is almost as if to say if Schumacher can do it, why can't Massa? The fact Schumacher is.... Schumacher should lay that to rest =/.

Apart from that, Massa is a racing driver, if he could not control is right foot then he would not where he is now, it's as simple as that.

[Grundle]

Where is the option:

- No, he would do much better with a winter of preparation.

The finish the season with sauber option would still include this possibility

[Dunder]

Massa is a TC era driver, meaning that he doesn't have finesse with the accelerator.
Massa is over accelerating and chewing his tires.
Even Schumy managed to evolve and adapt to non TC.

Racing environment has changed, Massa couldn't adapt so... it's extintion time to him.

Hard case to make given that 2008 (after TC ban) was his strongest season not just in WDC terms but relative to a very good team mate.

[TheBunk]

Perez to Ferrari in mid season, is a good idea?""

Yes please! No bad idea. Do it today!

Edited by TheBunk, 28 March 2012 - 15:26.

[Ferrari_F1_fan_2001]

Massa has cracked mentally against Alonso.

Piquet and Fisichella were the same.

Only Hamilton stuck two fingers up at him and never buckled.

Could Perez do any differently? He is only young, he might find it hard to cope with such relentless pressure.

[IceSkyrim]

Hard case to make given that 2008 (after TC ban) was his strongest season not just in WDC terms but relative to a very good team mate.

Remember that Bridgestone had a hard compound.
2008 was a bad year for Massa and even worse for Kimi that had a exhaust problem in France and crashed Hamilton at Spa.
In all situation Massa inherited a lot of points.

But how can you explain the tire chewing issue ?

[Grundle]

Perez said he thinks alonso is the best driver at the moment. I dont think he would buckle at all.
some drivers really enjoy going up against the best, I would put perez in this category. If you want to be the best, you have to beat the best

[Dunder]

Remember that Bridgestone had a hard compound.
2008 was a bad year for Massa and even worse for Kimi that had a exhaust problem in France and crashed Hamilton at Spa.
In all situation Massa inherited a lot of points.

But how can you explain the tire chewing issue ?

I don't see any evidence that Massa was "tyre chewing" last year. He was merely slow/accident prone.

In terms of this year, he certainly has had his issues but they have been so apparent that, if I was to speculate, I would put it down to Massa feeling he has to try out extreme setups in order to get a semblance of balance.

I don't think you can say that 2008 was a bad year for Massa. Yes, he benefited in Belgium but Hungary and Singapore were hardly his fault. The F2008 was a very good car in dry/normal conditions but it did not appear to me to have a huge advantage over the McLaren.

[Schumywdcf1]

Any new driver going to a team where Alonso has clear no.1 status is not at all a good career path!

[P123]

He will be better than Massa, and a good long term number 2 for Alonso, but moving mid-season would be a bad idea. The car will be unfamiliar to him and he will have to learn it during race weekends. Given the experience Alonso will have with the car the probable performance deficit to Alonso may not reflect well on Perez. Much better to join full time for 2013 onwards.

[DrProzac]

I don't think it would be a good idea for him.

Getting some more experience and joining the team before season's start, with testing etc. would be a better one.

Option number two.

Edited by DrProzac, 28 March 2012 - 16:49.

[jbarokF1]

I think it's not a bad idea for Perez to stay put, help develop Sauber to move high up in the grid, deliver brilliant performance race by race and make his stock higher and higher...Surely, he will get more offers in other top teams too like RB, Mercedes and McLaren..he should not limit himself for Ferrari. And as long as Alonso is there, he will be given an equal chance to race.

On the other hand, it will also be great to see him driving for Ferrari but I would rather wait till the end of the season if possible.

[IceSkyrim]

Peres is a member of Ferrari YDDP.
Checo often has test sessions in the Ferrari simulator, same as Alonso and Massa.

Recently Perez, Bianchi and another guy did some running with Ferrari F1 cars.
Bianchi with F150 and Checo with a 2 year old car to not configure a test session.

[jimjimjeroo]

What about the option "going to Ferrari is career suicide under alonso!"

[yr]

He will be better than Massa, and a good long term number 2 for Alonso, but moving mid-season would be a bad idea. The car will be unfamiliar to him and he will have to learn it during race weekends. Given the experience Alonso will have with the car the probable performance deficit to Alonso may not reflect well on Perez. Much better to join full time for 2013 onwards.

"A good long term number 2 for Alonso"? Is that what you think about Perez? A good number2? I think Perez himself may have other plans for his career, like being able to fight for WDC.

In fact, I would take it, that Ferrari will have a real tough time to find even decent driver to replace Massa for that very same reason: Alonso is number one and the only focus of the team, number 2 has no chance to shine.

[jeze]

Pérez will be a Ferrari driver at Melbourne 2013. I'm really sure about that one. He'll be closer to Alonso than what Massa is in general IMO but I don't think he's going to beat him for some time. I can certainly see Checo being a part of Ferrari for 10 years if he goes there, he really is a sublime talent. Pitch him against a Mark Webber or a Nico Rosberg and it'd be game on.

But I really doubt he'll move before the end of the season.

[Santosdf]

It used to be every racer's dream to drive for Ferrari, but we have seen what happened to #2 drivers at Maranello, It will be sad for Checo to become the next Barrichello or Massa. I hope his races call the attention of some of the other top teams.

[Sakae]

Pérez will be a Ferrari driver at Melbourne 2013. I'm really sure about that one. He'll be closer to Alonso than what Massa is in general IMO but I don't think he's going to beat him for some time. I can certainly see Checo being a part of Ferrari for 10 years if he goes there, he really is a sublime talent. Pitch him against a Mark Webber or a Nico Rosberg and it'd be game on.

But I really doubt he'll move before the end of the season.

I see this in similar manner. It would come to me as big surprise if there is mid-season switch. Pérez however might resist (and for good reasons).

[Dunder]

It used to be every racer's dream to drive for Ferrari, but we have seen what happened to #2 drivers at Maranello, It will be sad for Checo to become the next Barrichello or Massa. I hope his races call the attention of some of the other top teams.

LOL. Those poor number 2 drivers must have been so conflicted when they received their salaries and considered what private jets to buy themselves.

[Santosdf]

LOL. Those poor number 2 drivers must have been so conflicted when they received their salaries and considered what private jets to buy themselves.

Good point