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Five races - five winners. Is it exciting?


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Poll: Chaos or stability? (365 member(s) have cast votes)

What do you prefer:

  1. More clarity who is where with best teams and midfield fighting each other? (85 votes [23.29%])

    Percentage of vote: 23.29%

  2. Chaos whe have now? (178 votes [48.77%])

    Percentage of vote: 48.77%

  3. Something between these two? (102 votes [27.95%])

    Percentage of vote: 27.95%

Do you like current season in this context?

  1. Yes, me likes chaozzz (197 votes [53.97%])

    Percentage of vote: 53.97%

  2. No (95 votes [26.03%])

    Percentage of vote: 26.03%

  3. Not decided yet (73 votes [20.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 20.00%

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#1 MadYarpen

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 10:36

We had five different winners so far, and honestly, can anyone say which team is the team to beat?

I mean I think I like it, but I'm not really sure... Let's take 2007 and 2008, 2010. We had 2 clearly best teams, one or two trying to to fight them - and their fight was very exciting. It was the same slightly more down the grid. While we knew who is fighting for what, outcome wasn't clear. And I think it was great.

Now we basicaly know nothing. I'm not decided yet, but I'm starting to think that this lotery and unpredictability so advertised for example by pirelli is kinda meh.... Because if i think about it more carefuly, instead of couple of fights up and down the grid we have total chaos, no fight between teams at all, and - I don't want to drag pirelli into this... - everyone fighting tyres instead of rival cars. Is it good?

I'm not saying we should know that X team will win. It sucked last year. But now...

I tried to make polls as much appropriate as possible, give me any suggestions you may have. Not sure I can change it though;)


//I added one option for first question

Edited by MadYarpen, 15 May 2012 - 09:37.


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#2 SirRacer

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 10:43

1 Red Bull Racing-Renault 109
2 McLaren-Mercedes 98
3 Lotus-Renault 84
4 Ferrari 63
5 Mercedes 43
6 Williams-Renault 43
7 Sauber-Ferrari 41
8 Force India-Mercedes 18
9 STR-Ferrari 6



I think it's quite clear who are the best teams

#3 icecream_man

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 10:46

It's awesome, a far cry from the boredom of seeing one driver run off with it every race, impossible to predict what's going to happen from one race to the next

Looks like consistency will win it this year which is boding quite well for Lotus and Kimi so far...

Well done Pirelli !!! :up:

#4 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 10:56

I don't remember 2007 being very interesting, on track.

#5 MadYarpen

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 10:57

I don't remember 2007 being very interesting, on track.

I don't mean on track - just looking on the season as a whole.

#6 Clatter

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 11:10

I don't mean on track - just looking on the season as a whole.


And there's your problem. Many of us tune in to watch the actual race not the the score card.


#7 ali_M

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 11:16

I don't mean on track - just looking on the season as a whole.


It's only natural that a dominant team will keep winning. This will always be possible in a sport as F1 where the cars are not spec'd but instead made to a formula that affords some flexibility in design. The sport became massively popular despite this atmosphere over the years.

The joy of seeing the titans toppled by another team/driver being potentially gone is not something I relish. Especially if it's being artificially achieved.

Take away the things that create dominance and uncompetitive advantages such as vast budgetary differences, dedicated attention by a manufacturer despite the manufacturer supplying other teams etc. But please.... not this.

#8 korzeniow

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 11:17

After borefest wich was last year's Red Bull dominance just I love this year's season!

#9 UPRC

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 11:23

After borefest wich was last year's Red Bull dominance just I love this year's season!


Agreed! This is a fantastic season. I love how we never know what's going to happen at all. It reminds me of what is perhaps Murray Walker's most famous line... Anything can happen in Formula One, and it usually does.

#10 apoka

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 11:28

Some chaos is nice (we had quite a couple of boring seasons), but this season it is a bit too much in my opinion. It is very difficult to judge teams and drivers - which is what you can usually do in sport competitions.


#11 Ali_G

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 11:32

Terrible season.

Let's go back to rock hard Bridgestones and processional races :rolleyes:

#12 wj_gibson

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 11:33

SirRacer summarises it very well in that the WCC is still dominated by the same teams as before; it's not an outright lottery by any means.

Were McLaren (and, to a lesser extent RBR) acting in a competent fashion then I tend to think that Hamilton and Vettel would be a good 10-15 points clear of everyone else in the WDC by now, so it's not just the tyres that are contributing to it either. It's all gone a bit Brabham 1982 for them of late.

Edited by wj_gibson, 14 May 2012 - 11:34.


#13 Pizdek

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 11:33

It is.Great season.

Bring back refulling...

#14 Sakae

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 11:38

We had five different winners so far, and honestly, can anyone say which team is the team to beat?

I mean I think I like it, but I'm not really sure... Let's take 2007 and 2008, 2010. We had 2 clearly best teams, one or two trying to to fight them - and their fight was very exciting. It was the same slightly more down the grid. While we knew who is fighting for what, outcome wasn't clear. And I think it was great.

Now we basicaly know nothing. I'm not decided yet, but I'm starting to think that this lotery and unpredictability so advertised for example by pirelli is kinda meh.... Because if i think about it more carefuly, instead of couple of fights up and down the grid we have total chaos, no fight between teams at all, and - I don't want to drag pirelli into this... - everyone fighting tyres instead of rival cars. Is it good?

I'm not saying we should know that X team will win. It sucked last year. But now...

I tried to make polls as much appropriate as possible, give me any suggestions you may have. Not sure I can change it though;)


it's boring; reject chaos

#15 Kelateboy

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 11:38

YES

#16 Lights

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 11:40

It is exciting as prior to the weekend you can not know who is on pole and you can not know who reaches the podium, any of like 15 drivers can theoretically manage this as long as the circumstances allow them to. It's basically what we always hoped to happen, it's just so extreme now suddenly that we're exactly having doubts whether this was what we actually wished for.

#17 Jovanotti

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 11:40

Imagine going to the last GP, 4 or 5 drivers within ten points from the lead and being absolutely unable to tell who will have good pace - that will be a mental weekend. :stoned:

Edited by Jovanotti, 14 May 2012 - 11:40.


#18 wj_gibson

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 11:43

Anyway, it's only 5 races in. As the season evolves we may find one or two drivers (or one or two teams) getting much more on top of the tyres than anyone else and then the season may take on more of a conventional shape.

Personally, I'm tempted to stick a bet on Raikkonen to take the WDC from what little pointers we've had so far.

#19 spacekid

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 11:48

I don't find drivers going around slowly trying not to hurt their tyres, and those lucky enough to get the set up correct on any given weekend (when they probably won't be able to repeat that feat the next race) 'exciting'.

I prefer my motor racing to be a 'sport', and find excitement from watching the sport. I'm not happy that F1 is now selling itself to viewers purely an 'entertainment form' rather than a sport.

Randomly throwing an extra ball on the pitch and sending off both goal keepers would certainly make 0-0 draws in football more entertaining. It would provide a better 'spectacle'. But it would make it a worse sport in the long term.

Edit - and why do the responses have to be so binary? The standard response seems to be if you don't like it then obviously you prefer rock hard tyres and processional races. What about a middle ground of a spec that allows racing, but isn't entierly dominated by the whims of the rubber company. Is this a sport about car makers and drivers, or a tyre based entertainment business?

Edited by spacekid, 14 May 2012 - 11:49.


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#20 MadYarpen

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 11:53

Edit - and why do the responses have to be so binary? The standard response seems to be if you don't like it then obviously you prefer rock hard tyres and processional races. What about a middle ground of a spec that allows racing, but isn't entierly dominated by the whims of the rubber company. Is this a sport about car makers and drivers, or a tyre based entertainment business?


I will be glad to add some option to the poll, just let me know what you would like there.

#21 Slick

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 11:56

Imagine going to the last GP, 4 or 5 drivers within ten points from the lead and being absolutely unable to tell who will have good pace - that will be a mental weekend. :stoned:


I'm not sure my poor heart could cope with that scenario, having said that it would be awsome.

I have to say i am struggling a bit not seeing "my driver" and "my team" doing as well as they should be, but it is brilliant watching other teams doing well. Lotus and Williams are benefiting from this and I wish them well for the rest of the season.

History states that as the season progresses the strong, leading teams should come to more dominance as they have the resources, skills and experience to flourish in a long campain but at the moment I wouldn't put money on that either.

Concistency will rule by the looks of things and I suspect that the championship winner will be from a team that recognises this early on and focuses on finishing the races in a regular top 3 spot rather than going for win after win.

I wonder if Bernie's medal system would work this year.

#22 Wander

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 12:01

I'm not sure my poor heart could cope with that scenario, having said that it would be awsome.

I have to say i am struggling a bit not seeing "my driver" and "my team" doing as well as they should be, but it is brilliant watching other teams doing well. Lotus and Williams are benefiting from this and I wish them well for the rest of the season.

History states that as the season progresses the strong, leading teams should come to more dominance as they have the resources, skills and experience to flourish in a long campain but at the moment I wouldn't put money on that either.

Concistency will rule by the looks of things and I suspect that the championship winner will be from a team that recognises this early on and focuses on finishing the races in a regular top 3 spot rather than going for win after win.

I wonder if Bernie's medal system would work this year.


I was wondering that as well, cause somebody suggested on kimi thread that he could win the championship with no wins. :lol:

#23 icecream_man

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 12:02

I wonder if Bernie's medal system would work this year.


Aarrgghhh no no don't bring that back up ! :rotfl:

#24 OwenC93

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 12:02

It's incredible, have we ever had 5 consecutive different teams take the win?

#25 Wander

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 12:07

It's incredible, have we ever had 5 consecutive different teams take the win?

Yes, 1983.

#26 Atreiu

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 12:12

I don't remember 2007 being very interesting, on track.


2007 was good enough.
Ferrai and McLaren were a step or two above the rest and it resulted in many tight races in which we couldn't do better than a half decent guess at the win after qualifying. There were some straightforward races like Spa and France (which was still decided by a split second through pit stops) and other more chaotic ones like Montreal, Nurburgring and Fuji. Indy was probably one of the best non-SC dry races in a very long while with Kimi and Fisichella fighting very hard through the field and Alonso breathing all over Hamilton's neck.
And there was no lottery or sense of teams being at lost from one weekend to the next.
Racing-wise, it was definitely better to me.



#27 Juggles

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 12:24

Yes, it is exciting. I don't particularly like the idea that cars can be affected so much by external factors, for example the weather (as happened in Q3 in China), but it's certainly more entertaining than the other end of the spectrum.

I also think it's wrong to assign all the credit or all the blame to the tyres. I am convinced that the stability of the regulations and the ever narrowing plane of possible innovation (because of how strict the development rules are) is naturally bringing these cars closer and closer together. Even if we were in the era of refuelling and rock hard Bridgestone tyres, teams like Williams, Lotus and Sauber appear to have produced genuinely fast and well balanced cars that would be competitive under any F1 format. People need to stop looking so desperately for a pecking order because, for the moment it seems, the differences between tracks are ensuring there isn't one. The teams that build and develop the best cars will still be the ones fighting for this championship at the end.

#28 Rob

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 12:25

It would be even better without DRS and KERS.

#29 thuGG

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 12:26

Awesome season!

#30 zelpre

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 12:30

It is terrible. It is Fake. Hugely dissapointed.

#31 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 12:31

2007 was good enough.
Ferrai and McLaren were a step or two above the rest and it resulted in many tight races in which we couldn't do better than a half decent guess at the win after qualifying.


Yeah it was a 50% guess. McLaren or Ferrari.

#32 F1ultimate

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 12:33

Exciting? Surely.
Real? No.
Great for the sport and drivers? No.

Is it a lottery? Yes.

#33 zelpre

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 12:59

Exciting? Surely.
Real? No.
Great for the sport and drivers? No.

Is it a lottery? Yes.

:up:

#34 Brandz07

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 13:01

Exciting? Surely.
Real? No.
Great for the sport and drivers? No.

Is it a lottery? Yes.


:up:

I'd be much more excited if this was happening and I knew they were driving as quickly as possible.

#35 Atreiu

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 13:05

Yeah it was a 50% guess. McLaren or Ferrari.


Obviously, but the races were good enough, IMO.

#36 hunnylander

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 13:07

Boring and fake.

#37 Ali_G

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 13:07

It would be even better without DRS and KERS.


DRS - Absolutely

I've warmed to KERS though. I like how drivers can use it tactically in different parts of the circuit.

#38 schubacca

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 13:08

The season is utter bollocks in my opinion.

I am thinking that Karthakayan is due for a victory......

#39 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 13:11

Obviously, but the races were good enough, IMO.


They really weren't though. People here have very odd memories. And inconsistent memories too. People bitch that they have to drive within the tire endurance and pass each other on track, rather than racing each other's fuel strategy.

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#40 ali_M

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 13:39

Yes, it is exciting. I don't particularly like the idea that cars can be affected so much by external factors, for example the weather (as happened in Q3 in China), but it's certainly more entertaining than the other end of the spectrum.

I also think it's wrong to assign all the credit or all the blame to the tyres. I am convinced that the stability of the regulations and the ever narrowing plane of possible innovation (because of how strict the development rules are) is naturally bringing these cars closer and closer together. Even if we were in the era of refuelling and rock hard Bridgestone tyres, teams like Williams, Lotus and Sauber appear to have produced genuinely fast and well balanced cars that would be competitive under any F1 format. People need to stop looking so desperately for a pecking order because, for the moment it seems, the differences between tracks are ensuring there isn't one. The teams that build and develop the best cars will still be the ones fighting for this championship at the end.


I am certainly not convinced about what you're saying here. It's tempting to think so, but the comments from drivers in practice and the race point to the fact that this isn't so. They are battling with tyres that are very difficult to figure out. They fight trying to get the right balance and when finished still unhappy, they hope that their unhappy setup will work out relative to the others since they're all complaining. During the race, the pace varies a lot with each set of tyres it seems, secondary to how they're driven in each stint and the conditions. The tyres are too sensitive.

When you're unable to judge performances, it takes away from the sporting aspect and turns the race into a bland source of entertainment where you literally have no idea whatsoever who will win or how a particular driver/team will do. This is not what someone who follows a sport closely will see. In real sport there's usually a favourite who often wins or places high at a minimum. As a season matures, we pick our favourite, a favourite based on a pattern which makes one inclined to predict what will happen. We have great fun seeing how our prediction turns out. This isn't what's happening. Button, in a car that was capable of dominating qualifying the way it did, ran a race that was really poor. Do you think that was really Jenson/McLaren2012's standard of performance and that the William/Maldonado combo are simply just close because of the stability of the formula?

After the first 4 races and the momentum of Williams in development etc. over the last 4 yrs, who was expecting Maldonado to be on pole after a dry qualifying in Barcelona? After witnessing this and his win, in combination with Button's, Webber's and Massa's race day in Barcelona, what can we truly expect come next race and still call it genuine competition? Such mystery shouldn't be persisting to this degree so far into the season. I'd love to look at the 1983 season and I'm sure that I'd enjoy the darned thing because if there were 5 constructors winning in 5 races, I'm pretty sure that you'll see that they were very close throughout those 5 races with no huge swings in performance. Race attrition may well have contributed to that interesting outcome. As usual, it's likely wrong to simply compare the two seasons in such a simple fashion.

Edited by ali_M, 14 May 2012 - 13:45.


#41 icecream_man

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 13:53

They really weren't though. People here have very odd memories. And inconsistent memories too. People bitch that they have to drive within the tire endurance and pass each other on track, rather than racing each other's fuel strategy.


Absolutely, I was very surprised at a comment to bring back refuelling, it wasn't so long ago people were complaining all the passing was done in the pits and the races were processional, now we have the passing being done on track and some want refuelling back :stoned:


#42 SenorSjon

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 13:59

I guess the tires are the new refuelling. Consider this. If the fuel reached vapor status, the car would slow down (ie hit the cliff). The only difference is they have a fuel gauge warning them for that, but not a tire gauge now. It is like taking the fuel meter from a car with refueling capabilities. The last 2 liters you will have reduced fuel flow costing you about 2-3 seconds/lap, only you don't know exactly when.

That is almost the same as with the tires nowadays.

#43 Tifosi4ever

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 14:01

I guess the tires are the new refuelling. Consider this. If the fuel reached vapor status, the car would slow down (ie hit the cliff). The only difference is they have a fuel gauge warning them for that, but not a tire gauge now. It is like taking the fuel meter from a car with refueling capabilities. The last 2 liters you will have reduced fuel flow costing you about 2-3 seconds/lap, only you don't know exactly when.

That is almost the same as with the tires nowadays.



Lewis doesn't :)

#44 SenorSjon

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 14:03

Yes he does, they only chose to ignore it.;)

#45 AvranaKern

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 14:17

No. If anything, what Pirelli tyres did is not to turn midfield teams into top teams, instead top teams into midfield teams thus creating a big, shallow midfield pool from which you can fish based on the principal of randomness and chance.

#46 Longtimefan

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 14:21

No I don't like it, it's gone from 'formula 1' to 'The Pirelli lottery show'.



#47 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 14:25

I can live with you guys not understanding racing. But I'm not sure how you screw up understanding what a lottery is.

#48 the9th

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 14:28

Button must win all the races, otherwise viewership will plummet. Must inform Bernie. :confused:

F1 will only be real with a level playing field. I couldn't care less about fake icons, but I love a good brawl.


#49 Spillage

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 14:30

I don't think its a bad thing it all, and I don't think it is down to the tyres either. It is just that this season the cars are incredibly close - in Q2 in Spain, the difference between Raikkonen (5th) and Webber (12th) was 0.121 seconds. I don't think there's anything fake about it, it is just that if a team gains a couple of tenths on the field over a given weekend, as Williams and Ferrari did in Spain, then it catapults them from points finishers to race-winners.

#50 the9th

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 14:35

I can live with you guys not understanding racing. But I'm not sure how you screw up understanding what a lottery is.

Some people couldn't sleep last nigh because the race was won by a pay driver... Now they think there's something wrong with their lives, the Matrix. :smoking:
Get over it, Pastor and Williams did a better job than your team. And Mclaren screwed Lewis big time.
Pastor will win again this year, mark my words.