56 replies to this topic

[baddog]

I thought it would be interesting to try to work out the pace of the top runners in qualifying so far this year.

What I have done is list the qualifying positions for the drivers from the big 4 teams, and taken average position. I have then tried to excise penalties and invalid results, so effectively giving each drivers position at the end of the qualifying sesson, unless anything prevented them from completing it. The average position after that should hopefully represent their actual qualifying pace this year so far.



Thoughts? (and more important omissions/corrections!)

Edited by baddog, 28 May 2012 - 11:03.

[barneyrubble]

Why did you exclude Lotus? Grosjean has an avg grid position of 6 or something.

[baddog]

Why did you exclude Lotus? Grosjean has an avg grid position of 6 or something.

A good point.. I'm probably just being old (or lazy) and didn't even think about them. Will see about adding them and replacing the picture

[abc]

I believe Webbers 12th in Barcelona is similar to MSCs Bahrain - sitting in box thinking they have done enough.

[1Devil1]

Amazing stuff by Hamilton but the old fox is also super fast

[CaptnMark]

Why did you exclude Lotus? Grosjean has an avg grid position of 6 or something.

Also, Maldonado, Perez, and Kobayashi would be interesting.

[abc]

Also Button and Webber should go down one place after disregarding Hamiltons gerabox penalty.

[baddog]

I believe Webbers 12th in Barcelona is similar to MSCs Bahrain - sitting in box thinking they have done enough.

Schumacher was out of Qualy with a wing failure. If it had been a tactical error I would have left it in.

[GotYoubyTheBalls]

Shows Mclaren car really is a rocketship.

[baddog]

Also Button and Webber should go down one place after disregarding Hamiltons gerabox penalty.

I think you are right.

Should I replace the original pic with additions and corrections or post it as a new post so people's posts don't become nonsense?

[abc]

Further Kimis penalty in Malaysia had pushed Alonso, Vettel, Rosberg one spot, same with Maldovanos effect on Vettel and Button in last one, going by memory.

Man that was sloppy work

You can do it in initial table if you want, I dont mind.

Edited by abc, 28 May 2012 - 10:27.

[baddog]

Further Kimis penalty in Malaysia had pushed Alonso, Vettel, Rosberg one spot, same with Maldovanos effect on Vettel and Button in last one, going by memory.

Man that was sloppy work

Ah just wanted to give you guys something to do ;P

[Nigol]

I think you are right.

Should I replace the original pic with additions and corrections or post it as a new post so people's posts don't become nonsense?

Replace it.;)

[baddog]

Replaced, apologies to posters above

[barneyrubble]

Thanks for the updates. It pretty much shows what I expected. I think both Hamilton and Alonso have been flattering their cars. The biggest gaps between team mates. Lotus has been maybe the fastest car this season if you consider Grosjeans pace being a rookie.

[MortenF1]

Very interesting! It doesn't feel as if Schumacher has been the second best/fastest in qualifying this year, so that was a surprise. (I was thinking it was Rosberg and Webber, but they are next up I see.) I'm very impressed.

Hamilton has simply been amazing, and in a league of his own.

What's good is of course that several teams are capable of doing well, as shown by so many drivers having an average grid position around 7th.

[baddog]

My own 'surprises' were how incredibly well Hamilton has been qualifying, Schumacher being second (I thought maybe 4th) and that Vettel and Alonso are not a bit higher.

[mymemoryfails]

I'm surprised Button is "outqualifying" Vettel on average.
I surmise McLaren have had a better car in quali trim, but we are a long way from seeing Vettel 2011 version
Well Jenson has really dropped off after a good start, and Vettel hasn't bothered setting a time the last 2 q3 sessions (so poition is still accurate I suppose)
It might be a lot of work, but would like to see the whole field!


mymemoryfails

Edited by mymemoryfails, 29 May 2012 - 02:06.

[baddog]

To do the whole field I think I would have to get it more organised.. Im sure there are errors in there already. Might be able to suck the data out of the FIA data releases to get it really right. Ill perhaps keep this up as the year goes on, in which case I will try to expand it to at least include the sauber and williams.

[baddog]

Trying this from Mclaren data which shows place at end of qualy session rather than classified position.

Edited by baddog, 29 May 2012 - 03:44.

[mymemoryfails]

Thanks Baddog!

Hamilton looks great for quali!

mymemoryfails

[bourbon]

Why don't you do one for last season also, then we could compare

[Lelouch]

It's nice to see MSC second behind HAM even if it doesn't matter after all!
Thanks for the info baddog!

[andrewr]

Why don't you do one for last season also, then we could compare

I've got a better idea. Let's not. It would be off-topic.

[Trust]

Amazing stuff by Hamilton

What is amazing there? He clearly has the fastest car out there, so naturally you would expect from him to be on front row in qualifying.

[MikeTekRacing]

What is amazing there? He clearly has the fastest car out there, so naturally you would expect from him to be on front row in qualifying.

Button has the same car

[Markn93]

http://www1.skysport...ly-head-to-head - Just saw this article, can't say I agree with the JB-LH one.

[cooper]

Button has the same car

Exactly, some people will always hate! Like last year no one could deny Seb was the qualifying king and Mark has the same car then.. There are drivers who if they're confident with the car can get that extra performance and that is just down to skill, confidence and ability.. Pure and simple!

[bauss]

http://www1.skysport...ly-head-to-head - Just saw this article, can't say I agree with the JB-LH one.

their reasoning for given Button Spain qualifying is spectacularly silly, its like whoever wrote the article did not actually watch the session.... Button was already knocked out when the infringement occured, and even if Button was still around, LH's half a second over the next fastest driver more than covers for whatever "slight advantage" gained

[Schumacher7]

Button has the same car

Button is very overrated though imo which makes the McLaren not appear as good as it is, nice guy but an average driver, Lewis I don't like nearly as much as a person but there's no doubting he's a great driver, can easily be WDC this year.

[hammibal]

Shows Mclaren car really is a rocketship.

I guess Jenson qualifying on average in 6th place and being 6th fastest qualifier proves that?

Why don't you do one for last season also, then we could compare

Well on reflection people can really point to the car last year given Vettel's average qualifying performances this year

http://www1.skysport...ly-head-to-head - Just saw this article, can't say I agree with the JB-LH one.

Yep its rubbish

Button is very overrated though imo which makes the McLaren not appear as good as it is, nice guy but an average driver, Lewis I don't like nearly as much as a person but there's no doubting he's a great driver, can easily be WDC this year.

You have then too go down the line that the McLaren was the fastest car last year given Jenson's performances, however expert opinion says it wasnt

[Trust]

Exactly, some people will always hate! Like last year no one could deny Seb was the qualifying king and Mark has the same car then.. There are drivers who if they're confident with the car can get that extra performance and that is just down to skill, confidence and ability.. Pure and simple!

And what is Mark doing right now? He does stuff that Vettel did last year. Are they both special now? That logic is false, sorry bro.

[Trust]

Button has the same car

So? Button was never recognized as extreme good qualifier. Even his title won't make him better in my eyes. On the other hand, Hamilton as soon as he arrived showed his amazing speed. Jenson is having big struggles now, so he doesn't use the potential of the car even close to maximum.

[jjcale]

http://www1.skysport...ly-head-to-head - Just saw this article, can't say I agree with the JB-LH one.

Looks like they got a football correspondent to do this report...

Edit: actually its worse than I thought:

Editor says
We have ignored things such as grid penalties for gearbox changes. But in Spain none of Lewis Hamilton's times were declared valid, meaning he set no time and was thus last.

Edited by jjcale, 31 May 2012 - 16:40.

[Watkins74]

Alonso leading the WDC while starting from an average position of 8th. What a beast!

[jjcale]

Alonso leading the WDC while starting from an average position of 8th. What a beast!

As you might say... I can just feel the in your post.

;)

Edited by jjcale, 31 May 2012 - 16:42.

[hammibal]

Alonso leading the WDC while starting from an average position of 8th. What a beast!

Would he still be leading if he had Lewis's pit crew?

[Ural]

Lewis is The Rocketman in one lap. It's indicating McLaren have bad problems with Pirellis over race distance!

[spacekid]

Really interesting, good stuff baddog!

Looking at this I think Lewis will be WDC this year. McLaren can't keep stuffing things up, I think he has a lot of race wins in him this year.

Its very interesting that Webber and Schumi both have the upper hand this year when their team mates were comprehensively superior in qualifying last year. I'm not really seeing that sort of change in any other teams, so it must be something fundamental to the Red Bull and Mercedes? Heard a lot of people mention the EBD, I'd be interested to know wharts happening there in terrms of driving style.

And yes, Alonso is a points collecting beast!!

[TheBunk]

Super stats!! Well done!!

[exmayol]

Another proof that Q does not mean much these days given that folks leading the championship have worse stats.

[Sinceref189]

Really interesting, good stuff baddog!

Looking at this I think Lewis will be WDC this year. McLaren can't keep stuffing things up, I think he has a lot of race wins in him this year.

Its very interesting that Webber and Schumi both have the upper hand this year when their team mates were comprehensively superior in qualifying last year. I'm not really seeing that sort of change in any other teams, so it must be something fundamental to the Red Bull and Mercedes? Heard a lot of people mention the EBD, I'd be interested to know wharts happening there in terrms of driving style.

And yes, Alonso is a points collecting beast!!

Hmmm there's been quite alot of people saying this will be Lewis's year . I for one do not think he can do it this year ,dont get me wrong i would love him to get his second title but something seems incredibly off with mclaren the teams foundations look very average at the moment they do not look like a team going for the championship .The contrast between redbull and ferrari's trackside operations leave me to believe they are on top of there game and are squeezing every little opportunity on race day. Mclaren better start upping there game im sick of little but costly mistakes happening on a race weekend , if they cant get on top of this then its bye bye WDC and bye bye Lewis. Now ive been browsing around the Redbull/ferrari threads and it seems most of the fans are looking forward to what there next updates are . Moving on to Mclaren were worried about the pace of the car and the pitwall operations plus Button's performances of rescent times. says it all really

[spacekid]

Another proof that Q does not mean much these days given that folks leading the championship have worse stats.

True, they do, but Lewis and Michael at the top of the table have both been let down by their teams in a lot of races. They haven't been able to unlock that potential yet, and even though guys competitive in tyre strategy from further back, I still think that track position is still king. It just means less chance of getting caught up in silly mid-pack incidents at the start, and being able to run in clear air and avoid time loss due to field spread.

Edited by spacekid, 31 May 2012 - 18:18.

[hammibal]

Hmmm there's been quite alot of people saying this will be Lewis's year . I for one do not think he can do it this year ,dont get me wrong i would love him to get his second title but something seems incredibly off with mclaren the teams foundations look very average at the moment they do not look like a team going for the championship .The contrast between redbull and ferrari's trackside operations leave me to believe they are on top of there game and are squeezing every little opportunity on race day. Mclaren better start upping there game im sick of little but costly mistakes happening on a race weekend , if they cant get on top of this then its bye bye WDC and bye bye Lewis. Now ive been browsing around the Redbull/ferrari threads and it seems most of the fans are looking forward to what there next updates are . Moving on to Mclaren were worried about the pace of the car and the pitwall operations plus Button's performances of rescent times. says it all really

It seems that McLaren need a really dominant car to go for the WDC but i cant see any car dominating this year, its a concern for Lewis's WDC chances

[Watkins74]

As you might say... I can just feel the in your post.

;)

Touche. That was a good one.

Would he still be leading if he had Lewis's pit crew?

Yes. The pit crew would never disrespect the beast.

[exmayol]

True, they do, but Lewis and Michael at the top of the table have both been let down by their teams in a lot of races. They haven't been able to unlock that potential yet, and even though guys competitive in tyre strategy from further back, I still think that track position is still king. It just means less chance of getting caught up in silly mid-pack incidents at the start, and being able to run in clear air and avoid time loss due to field spread.

I agree. All I'm saying is that with current regulations it is considerably simpler to make up in the race for whatever mistakes done in the qualifying. GP weekend consists of many things and all of them play a part in the final showing to one extent or another.

[PretentiousBread]

Looks like they got a football correspondent to do this report...

Edit: actually its worse than I thought:

My favourite bit was this:

"As the infringement occured in qualifying, and would have given Hamilton a slight but definite speed advantage, we therefore list Button as the McLaren Saturday victor in Spain."

This guy must think a kilo or so in weight is worth about 1.2s in lap time.

[baddog]

A very brief update.. this may even be right!

The main story being the rise of the redbulls.

Edited by baddog, 13 July 2012 - 00:21.

[baddog]

Updated for German Qualifying. Alonso continues to rise..

[Alarcon]

Updated for German Qualifying. Alonso continues to rise..

This is not real.

Lewis and Mark are worst than you said on that last list.

Lewis has a 4 average
Mark has a 6 average

Edited by Alarcon, 21 July 2012 - 14:51.