107 replies to this topic

[enrm6]

What actually happened to cause Jenson's retirement. They showed his spin. Then in interview Jenson said he caught Kovi again but the BBC never showed the retirement. Was there contact again?

Edited by enrm6, 27 May 2012 - 14:59.

[Thunderbolt]

What actually happened to cause Jenson's retirement. They showed his spin. Then in interview Jenson said he caught Kovi again but the BBC never showed the retirement. Was there contact again?

in this way he can have a new car (new engine, new gearbox, new frame) at next race...

Edited by Thunderbolt, 27 May 2012 - 15:01.

[Lights]

What actually happened to cause Jenson's retirement. They showed his spin. Then in interview Jenson said he caught Kovi again but the BBC never showed the retirement. Was there contact again?

That's just what teams do. Torro Rosso did something similar IIRC.

[Clatter]

What actually happened to cause Jenson's retirement. They showed his spin. Then in interview Jenson said he caught Kovi again but the BBC never showed the retirement. Was there contact again?

Never saw it, but on Sky they mentioned a puncture. That might have been just guessing though.

[BillBald]

What actually happened to cause Jenson's retirement. They showed his spin. Then in interview Jenson said he caught Kovi again but the BBC never showed the retirement. Was there contact again?

I think there was.

Kovy also had a collision with Perez, but I don't think his wing was so badly damaged in that incident. So it looks like Jenson and Kovy came together pretty hard, Jenson retired and Kovy had to change his wing.

No way did they just park the car, with rain coming down the situation could have changed.

[Boxerevo]

After the spin,Button and Kovalainen got at it again ?

And that Button DNF was because this.

[BinaryDad]

So...if Button hadn't spun out, he would have caught Lewis for sure. So we should give this one to Jenson. Right? Right?

[Lights]

After the spin,Button and Kovalainen got at it again ?

And that Button DNF was because this.

Yeah, he caught him again and tried to overtake him in Turn 1. They had contact and that was it.

[Boxerevo]

Yeah, he caught him again and tried to overtake him in Turn 1. They had contact and that was it.

Found on autosport page.

[ForzaGTR]

So Jenson crashed twice trying to overtake the same car? That's very unlike him, his head is not in the game at the moment.

[Boxerevo]

You know what i don't like,is that we don't learn with our mistakes and other mistakes.

We just share them and make them bigger.

What some are talking,joking with Button... is the same that i saw people doing with Hamilton last year.

I know that with Lewis is harder,because he has SO many more haters and people who wants to know about him,but show grace people and be friends with our team mates forumers fans that read,and don't pay attention to the haters and trolls.

Edited by Boxerevo, 27 May 2012 - 20:44.

[pinkypants]

So Jenson crashed twice trying to overtake the same car? That's very unlike him, his head is not in the game at the moment.

I think Jenson will be back at the next race No time for celebration, no one in the McLaren camp is doing a stellar job IMO.

Edited by pinkypants, 27 May 2012 - 20:47.

[gricey1981]

Imagine if Lewis had had Jensons race - stuck behind a caterham and crashing into him twice.

oooooh the daggers would be out.

[ForzaGTR]

Imagine if Lewis had had Jensons race - stuck behind a caterham and crashing into him twice.

oooooh the daggers would be out.

True

[Lights]

Found on autosport page.

Bit bigger here. He looked pretty much ahead on these pictures. Bah.

Here you can see his front right tyre got smashed. So that's his DNF.

[Siperoth]

Imagine if Lewis had had Jensons race - stuck behind a caterham and crashing into him twice.

oooooh the daggers would be out.

Good point how many bad races did Hamilton had last year before the Lauda's and reporters started criticizing him. If i remember not even two actually, it was going wild only after Monaco(which btw he got from 9th to six) and after Canada it was full blown despite not being his fault in Canada. Button already has 3 miserable races this year and in two of them collided with other people but everyone is calm. Button doesn't need to calm down or stop being too aggressive. Is just bad luck. It seems only Lewis isn't privileged to "bad luck".

[TeamMacca]

Problem that Jenson is having is his Qualifying, last year he got away with it because the Mclaren was faster in the race, the fastest most of the races but this year there are too many cars that can match Mclaren or be faster in the race.

He isn't going to beat Lewis in Quali in Canada as Lewis is rapid their but he needs to sort his Quali out and stop getting caught up in battles where he wrecks his tyres early and gets stuck behind cars.

The championship could soon be over for Jenson if he and Mclaren don't improve, Lewis is just getting the most out of the car as usual.

[Towny]

If lewis would have crash into that caterham there would be a 50 page thread and numerous people calling for his head, but lewis is driving superbly and keeping all the ammunition to himself.

[Boxerevo]

Good point how many bad races did Hamilton had last year before the Lauda's and reporters started criticizing him. If i remember not even two actually, it was going wild only after Monaco(which btw he got from 9th to six) and after Canada it was full blown despite not being his fault in Canada. Button already has 3 miserable races this year and in two of them collided with other people but everyone is calm. Button doesn't need to calm down or stop being too aggressive. Is just bad luck. It seems only Lewis isn't privileged to "bad luck".

The reason is simple.

And isn't about the number of people who cares about them.

Is about the intensity of emotions Lewis gives to his fans and haters.

Too much love and hate,thats why there is always a storm with Lewis.

[fieraku]

Good point how many bad races did Hamilton had last year before the Lauda's and reporters started criticizing him. If i remember not even two actually, it was going wild only after Monaco(which btw he got from 9th to six) and after Canada it was full blown despite not being his fault in Canada. Button already has 3 miserable races this year and in two of them collided with other people but everyone is calm. Button doesn't need to calm down or stop being too aggressive. Is just bad luck. It seems only Lewis isn't privileged to "bad luck".

How about BBC's endless "Team leader" rants,and how JB had made this his team and kicked Hamilton out of the park.Now.....silence.....

The double standards are sickening.

[velgajski1]

Imagine if Lewis had had Jensons race - stuck behind a caterham and crashing into him twice.

oooooh the daggers would be out.

Some haters even criticise Lewis after this race. If someone else had this kind of race everyone would be so 'oh my god he totally put that car where it didn't belong'

[PretentiousBread]

Good point how many bad races did Hamilton had last year before the Lauda's and reporters started criticizing him. If i remember not even two actually, it was going wild only after Monaco(which btw he got from 9th to six) and after Canada it was full blown despite not being his fault in Canada. Button already has 3 miserable races this year and in two of them collided with other people but everyone is calm. Button doesn't need to calm down or stop being too aggressive. Is just bad luck. It seems only Lewis isn't privileged to "bad luck".

I agree Hamilton has garnered an unfair reputation for crashing, or being error-prone or whatever, but Button has earnt his reputation as a clean driver over a long course of time and for good reason. Both their reputations precede them, it's just that Hamilton's is unfair.

[PNSD]

The double standards are sickening.

Where are them quotes from you where you said JB was Mclaren's man? After Australia.

Funny that.

I think I was pretty vocal in dismissing you and said Lewis was still the better driver, you however bigged Jenson up as if he was TDG after spending 2010 bashing.

Double standards? Funny coming from you.

[PNSD]

The double standards are sickening.

Where are them quotes from you where you said JB was Mclaren's man? After Australia.

Funny that.

I think I was pretty vocal in dismissing you and said Lewis was still the better driver, you however bigged Jenson up as if he was TDG after spending 2010 bashing.

Double standards? Funny coming from you.

[F1Johnny]

There are some glaring double standards when it comes to JB and LH. No doubt that if LH had JB's race he would have been massacred in the press.

That said, 2010 and this year are IMO more representative of the match up between the 2. IMO 2011 saw JB at his best and LH at his worst, an outlier year, but still time this season for JB to turn it around.

[fieraku]

Where are them quotes from you where you said JB was Mclaren's man? After Australia.

Funny that.

I think I was pretty vocal in dismissing you and said Lewis was still the better driver, you however bigged Jenson up as if he was TDG after spending 2010 bashing.

Double standards? Funny coming from you.

Yes you were absolutely right,LH is tenfold better. (and I wasn't here in 2010)

[Dalton007]

Found on autosport page.

Heikki was being a prat, seriously, what was the point? He kept moving in the braking zone and overshooting the chicane after the tunnel. Frustrating.

[sofarapartguy]

Heikki was being a prat, seriously, what was the point? He kept moving in the braking zone and overshooting the chicane after the tunnel. Frustrating.

It was a vital opportunity for Caterham. So Hekki had to and did fight a bit like Mansell's "win or wall".

Edited by sofarapartguy, 28 May 2012 - 08:15.

[FW09]

Heikki was being a prat, seriously, what was the point? He kept moving in the braking zone and overshooting the chicane after the tunnel. Frustrating.

Caterham was fighting for the WDC money. They need better finishes than Marussia and HRT. That was the point.

Jenson was being a prat, seriously, what was the point? Being 12th or 13th is just the same for him, no need to crash into other cars.

[Lights]

It was a vital opportunity for Caterham. So Hekki had to and did fight a bit like Mansell's "win or wall".

Yeah, obviously while watching the race we don't see it from their viewpoint, but Heikki drove one of his most competitive races of the past 3 seasons, and actually Tony Fernandes stated: "When Heikki passed Jenson out of the pits that was definitely the most exciting moment in my Formula 1 career and something that I will remember for ever." Heikki wasn't far away from a points position that he has been so desperately searching for all these years, and thereby was a man on a mission. Jenson was just an annoying obstacle that tried to get Heikki away from his best classification in years.

Pretty much everything was against Jenson this race in terms of luck and timing. Simply a weekend to forget for him, if it wasn't for it being the third one in a row....

[jjcale]

It was a vital opportunity for Caterham. So Hekki had to and did fight a bit like Mansell's "win or wall".

Anybody who has paid attention to HK in quali knows that the guy is completely mental... he is ready to risk crashing if he thinks he can make up a couple of tenths... he's fantastic!

I surprised that a clever guy like JB failed to understand how important maintaining that position was to HK and Caterham... a part of me almost felt like Macca should have radioed him to back off ... and that was before the crash - as this was season changing for them but JB had no chance of getting in the points.

I think his comment about keeping things in perspective when fighting for 12th was a freudian slip and was really aimed at himself...

[Lights]

Anybody who has paid attention to HK in quali knows that the guy is completely mental... he is ready to risk crashing if he thinks he can make up a couple of tenths... he's fantastic!

I surprised that a clever guy like JB failed to understand how important maintaining that position was to HK and Caterham... a part of me almost felt like Macca should have radioed him to back off ... and that was before the crash - as this was season changing for them but JB had no chance of getting in the points.

I think his comment about keeping things in perspective when fighting for 12th was a freudian slip and was really aimed at himself...

Jenson has never really been clever in this way. He always assumes that drivers will be fair just like himself, that as long as he respects others they will respect him and that fair moves are always possible. He can really get annoyed by unfair moves of others, such as Vettel in Valencia'09, Vettel in Suzuka'11 and his initial reaction is to act tough like he'd copy those moves in the future, but in the end he will never do so, he's just the gentlemen driver that he is and it's part of why I support him.

[Nigol]

Jenson has never really been clever in this way. He always assumes that drivers will be fair just like himself, that as long as he respects others they will respect him and that fair moves are always possible. He can really get annoyed by unfair moves of others, such as Vettel in Valencia'09, Vettel in Suzuka'11 and his initial reaction is to act tough like he'd copy those moves in the future, but in the end he will never do so, he's just the gentlemen driver that he is and it's part of why I support him.

Do you think HK was unfair?

[sofarapartguy]

Do you think HK was unfair?

Yes. He was a little bit above the thing which we would call a "tough defence". It was desperate defence.

I don't think JB was uncleaver in his fighting with HK - it is just mentally difficult to back off when you are 2-3 seconds faster than car in front.

[Lights]

Do you think HK was unfair?

Of course, like it has been said, he cut the chicane several times when Jenson tried to overtake him, he pushed Jenson back in the wall in the braking zone when he was on the outside. If you look how he drove against Perez and Button in St Devote, it's not that unfair but he simply gave no space and just blocked their driving line on the outside by cutting across. It's just how you can defend at Monaco, and obviously you don't get penalized for this if you keep it within limits. Overall I did consider Heikki to be unfair, and so did Jenson. Understandable from Caterhams viewpoint, but unfair.

[mlsnoopy]

Heikki was being a prat, seriously, what was the point? He kept moving in the braking zone and overshooting the chicane after the tunnel. Frustrating.

Hm.
Schumacher Canada Monza
Kobayashi Spa
Massa every race.
What were your reactions last year.

[undersquare]

Heikki was being a prat, seriously, what was the point? He kept moving in the braking zone and overshooting the chicane after the tunnel. Frustrating.

Well it was frustrating! But the point was Kovy had a job to do and he did it - came in 12th ahead of JB. Didn't get a penalty, so I don't think he can be faulted personally.

Anyway JB is better than he's looked recently, the team has to find the answer to the tyres+his style IMO. They chose a driver with an unaggressive temperament, now they have to make it work.

[Dalton007]

Caterham was fighting for the WDC money. They need better finishes than Marussia and HRT. That was the point.

Jenson was being a prat, seriously, what was the point? Being 12th or 13th is just the same for him, no need to crash into other cars.

When the Caterham is 2 seconds slower and isn't going to get into the points, it's just pointless to hold back a much faster car. To be fair to Jenson, he was at least having a go to get a result as fairly as possible.

Oh well, on to Canada.

[cooper]

When the Caterham is 2 seconds slower and isn't going to get into the points, it's just pointless to hold back a much faster car. To be fair to Jenson, he was at least having a go to get a result as fairly as possible.

Oh well, on to Canada.

HK had every right to defend his position.. He's a racing driver to and to prove that he can keep a faster car behind him and drive defensively will be good for his career! The move over and just let him pass would not..

It's frustrating yes as we need some good points for WCC (which we do not want going to RBR AGAIN!), so hopefully in canada where overtaking should be easier there won't be this issue again.. Ultimately if Jenson has done a better job in qualifying he might not had been in that situation, the issue with that is it's in the past and there is nothing that can be done about it

[Nigol]

This guy has an angry bird on his helmet, what did you expect?

[Lights]

When the Caterham is 2 seconds slower and isn't going to get into the points, it's just pointless to hold back a much faster car. To be fair to Jenson, he was at least having a go to get a result as fairly as possible.

Oh well, on to Canada.

That wasn't the case and also a reason Jenson struggled to overtake. This wasn't like overtaking a slow Caterham. Heikki was very much onpace for most of the race, and in some of the laps that Jenson tried to overtake him, Heikki was lapping less than a second slower than the race leaders. Heikki could almost keep up with Raikkonen throughout the first stint.

Edited by Lights, 28 May 2012 - 09:39.

[speng]

Hm.
Schumacher Canada Monza
Kobayashi Spa
Massa every race.
What were your reactions last year.

I just want to see an answer here but I guess it is only unfair when it happens to your driver.

[FW09]

When the Caterham is 2 seconds slower and isn't going to get into the points, it's just pointless to hold back a much faster car. To be fair to Jenson, he was at least having a go to get a result as fairly as possible.

Oh well, on to Canada.

You still don't get it. It was not pointless at all for Heikki. Even the 13th position was enough to put Caterham ahead of Marussia in the WCC table. Those positions from 11th to 13th are important to Caterham, Marussia and HRT.

It was only pointless for Jenson.

[sofarapartguy]

You still don't get it. It was not pointless at all for Heikki. Even the 13th position was enough to put Caterham ahead of Marussia in the WCC table. Those positions from 11th to 13th are important to Caterham, Marussia and HRT.

It was only pointless for Jenson.

It could end up with crash between HK and JB >> 12-13 place for Marussia.

[FW09]

It could end up with crash between HK and JB >> 12-13 place for Marussia.

Are you seriously saying that a racing driver should give away important positions because crashes may happen in racing?

[Lights]

Are you seriously saying that a racing driver should give away important positions because crashes may happen in racing?

There's quite a difference between 'giving away' a position, 'fighting for' it and 'crashing for' it.

[FW09]

There's quite a difference between 'giving away' a position, 'fighting for' it and 'crashing for' it.

Who's crashing? Jenson.

Maybe Heikki didn't understand that Jenson wants to crash for a 12th position.

[speng]

When the Caterham is 2 seconds slower and isn't going to get into the points, it's just pointless to hold back a much faster car. To be fair to Jenson, he was at least having a go to get a result as fairly as possible.

Oh well, on to Canada.

Button with a car that was 2 second a lap faster (your words) should have done a better job of getting by. I do not see this as HK's fault.

[sofarapartguy]

Are you seriously saying that a racing driver should give away important positions because crashes may happen in racing?

I think HK is lucky it was JB behind him, not a Maldonado/Grosjean/Massa etc - he would've lost this 13 place in the wall for sure.

[jamiegc]

To answer the original question of this thread, Button went for a kamikaze dive around the outside into T1 and Kovalainen put his car in the right position = one McLaren in the runoff and one thoroughly demoralised driver throwing in the towel.

As for the rest of this thread, after all the hysteria about the tyres and the laughable claims that 'its not racing', people are genuinely advocating a slower car just let a faster one by.

Ps, should Sutil have let Raikonnen go in 2008?