Lotus E20 - 2012 - Part II
#2901
Posted 05 November 2012 - 17:30
Anyway, as soon as I saw Romain struggling and being caught up by the mid-field pack (including Perez), I just got the feeling that some incident was about to happen.
I just felt that the team may have had the opportunity to pre-empt and call him to the pits straightway. This would have ensured that he didn't loose any time fighting a loosing battle, and may have prevented the whole accident.
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#2902
Posted 05 November 2012 - 17:32
I very doubtful it would happen. But with drivers like RK and KR they would be probably 2nd in WCC at the moment, with maybe more than 1 win in pocket (Monaco could go well for RK I believe).Congrats to Lotus.
I know it's too early and no valid argument but Kubica with Kimi would be nice. It's just in the back of my head...
He could be guine pig. You know, they had a driver leading a race, so they could want to test how long he can stay on these tyres.I was just comparing times between Romain and Kimi (there is no point as they were running completely different races), but I suddenly realized that the team had put Romain on a Bizarre strategy.
Pit - Lap 2 (puncture)
Pit - Lap 9 (Safety car)
So no wonder he was struggling badly at the end. Were they expecting him to go to the end on those tires? Quite bizarre in my view.
Lap Chart:
http://en.mclarenf-1...an#.UJfqJ7ulG2o
#2903
Posted 05 November 2012 - 17:58
Thats what i meant..his tyres were shot at lap 36..im sure they planned to bring him again for another stint on options..he wouldnt have lasted the race on those.They would have had to stop him because of the tyre wear but without that they planned only one stop, with second stop he wouldn't have scored any points.
#2904
Posted 05 November 2012 - 20:02
#2905
Posted 05 November 2012 - 20:10
Lets hope they can figure it out for next season
#2906
Posted 05 November 2012 - 20:36
The most important thing is that the blowing exhaust seems to have taken the car back to the level where it's mixing it with the top three squads again. A good confirmation of the fundamentals for next year's design being healthy.
#2907
Posted 05 November 2012 - 20:58
With a win secured, and 4th in WCC secured, and 3rd in WDC for Kimi almost secure, I wonder whether the team will take a chance and try out the DRD in Texas.
I think they should, they have nothing to lose....but according to Allison it's extremely unlikely.
Edited by Vesuvius, 05 November 2012 - 21:00.
#2908
Posted 05 November 2012 - 21:06
I think they should, they have nothing to lose....but according to Allison it's extremely unlikely.
With all the high speed sweepers after T1 and the looong right hander near the end of the lap, I bet they keep it in the factory.
Abu Dhabi was the place to use it, long straights and only one really fast corner, T3.
#2909
Posted 05 November 2012 - 21:06
Kimi was fantastic.
#2910
Posted 06 November 2012 - 01:59
So you are implying it faster than the ferrari? Alonso was faster often than Kimi you can see it in the FL. Ferrari speed trap was superior also. Is it that difficult to admit sometimes, just sometimes it's not only Alonso that can make a difference?
Assuming things about others like that is a really ugly thing to do. I won't dislike you still for doing so, since I tend to give plenty of chances to everyone. Not that you should care of course, but I like to point it out just in case.
Kimi did make a difference yesterday and such is my consideration about what he did. See that for instance his team-mate was not being noticeable at all with the same car.
But, that doesn't mean that stating that the Lotus was only the 4th fastest lap is fair or correct either. What speed trap did you look at? If you are talking about something like this that will surely lead you to a misleading conclusion.
Because live speed traps during the race were suggesting me on my phone that in spite of Alonso could register fastest laps during some laps, overall during the race the Lotus registered faster laps more firmly. You may think (or maybe not) that was because Alonso took out less from his car than Kimi did, but looking at the tires field I think it just seemed that the Lotus was managing the tires much better in this track (actually the Lotus has shown some brilliance in that regard at some tracks, while yeah, in others it was the opposite maybe). Only by the end of the race (when it actually didn't matter anymore) the hards seemed to work better for Ferrari.
So yeah, I think Lotus was a faster car yesterday, the tires are part of the car after all and those seemed to work better for Lotus at Yibbi Dabbi. It is also that part regarding the Renault engines (see how Williams was unusually good again).
Kimi did make a difference yesterday, he was really good and special, but I don't buy that the Lotus was just the 4th fastest car yesterday as you stated. Sorry, I just don't agree with it.
#2911
Posted 06 November 2012 - 03:52
Edited by Cenotaph, 06 November 2012 - 03:53.
#2912
Posted 06 November 2012 - 09:09
#2913
Posted 06 November 2012 - 09:28
#2914
Posted 06 November 2012 - 09:40
#2915
Posted 06 November 2012 - 09:47
Well I fear if they don't test it now, they'll compromise their whole winter testing with the device. I prefer using the YDT for that.so nothing about DRD? Well tbh it might be reasonable. If they will configure the current car better htey might still get ahead of McLaren or even Ferrari with a bit of luck. DRD won't be raced this seasn anyway
#2916
Posted 06 November 2012 - 09:50
But maybe they will test it tomorrow or at least on thursday.
#2917
Posted 06 November 2012 - 09:57
#2918
Posted 06 November 2012 - 09:57
Sauber is testing a smiliar device.
But maybe they will test it tomorrow or at least on thursday.
I think they probably feel that there is more performance to be found at the moment in the exhaust area, compared to the DRD, which is fair enough.
Anyway I agree that they will probably bolt on the DRD either tomorrow or day after.
#2919
Posted 06 November 2012 - 10:07
I think they probably feel that there is more performance to be found at the moment in the exhaust area, compared to the DRD, which is fair enough.
Anyway I agree that they will probably bolt on the DRD either tomorrow or day after.
They already confirmed couple of months ago they will test the DRD at this YDT. Even if they don't test it today they have two more days
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#2920
Posted 06 November 2012 - 10:27
Paul Seaby @Seabs
A good morning for Nico Prost... plenty of aero runs gathering data for us... this afternoon some timed laps!
#2921
Posted 06 November 2012 - 13:10
Kimi did make a difference yesterday, he was really good and special, but I don't buy that the Lotus was just the 4th fastest car yesterday as you stated. Sorry, I just don't agree with it.
RB and Mac were the class of the field in terms of speed, but shot themselves in the foot. Ferrari and Lotus arguably the same, only that Kimi seized the opportunity for clean air and started to pump out qualifying laps, while Fernando was more or less bottled behind traffic. Nothing too strange in saying Lotus only had the 4th fastest car in the race.
#2922
Posted 06 November 2012 - 14:04
Kimi did make a difference yesterday, he was really good and special, but I don't buy that the Lotus was just the 4th fastest car yesterday as you stated. Sorry, I just don't agree with it.
It was more like a joint third. McLaren had a serious performance advantage over them. Red Bull maybe a small one judging Vettel´s pace on primers when he got clean air, and their quali advantage. But both teams failed. Lewis retired, and I don´t know what on Earth happened with Button. Vettel´s race was screwed before it started, and Mark´s race in the first couple of seconds of the race.
Ferrari was a perfect match for Lotus. Lotus looked faster on option tyre, Ferrari faster on prime tyre, all over the weekend, both in one lap and race trim. I wouldn´t dare saying who would come out winner in a straight race distance time trial. So 4th best is nothing crazy at all. Having said that, top 4 was extremelly matched bar McLaren.
Edited by Skinnyguy, 06 November 2012 - 14:05.
#2923
Posted 06 November 2012 - 14:41
Alonso has better race pace? How?I dunno. Both RB and McLaren are faster than us and even Alonso has better race pace now. We are still dependent of Button and Webbo underperfoming and misfortune of one top driver to finish 3rd.
Those two sentences don't necessarily have to correlate that way.Kimi was faster than Alonso for the majority of the race. I think they clearly had a better car than Ferrari, ..
Edited by SpaMaster, 06 November 2012 - 14:48.
#2924
Posted 06 November 2012 - 16:57
Alonso has better race pace? How?
Those two sentences don't necessarily have to correlate that way.
It doesn't matter what you consider that necessarily correlate or not, the fact is that the Lotus' car showed better race pace, be it because of the tires or because of the situation. You may believe that in reality it is that Alonso is a worse driver or that Kimi can make a car to run faster than it can (again ), but that would be only a way to hide your head beneath to ignore the truth.
It was more like a joint third. McLaren had a serious performance advantage over them. Red Bull maybe a small one judging Vettel´s pace on primers when he got clean air, and their quali advantage. But both teams failed. Lewis retired, and I don´t know what on Earth happened with Button. Vettel´s race was screwed before it started, and Mark´s race in the first couple of seconds of the race.
Ferrari was a perfect match for Lotus. Lotus looked faster on option tyre, Ferrari faster on prime tyre, all over the weekend, both in one lap and race trim. I wouldn´t dare saying who would come out winner in a straight race distance time trial. So 4th best is nothing crazy at all. Having said that, top 4 was extremelly matched bar McLaren.
I still really don't agree with your second paragraph, but I reckon that what you said is a fair analysis.
#2925
Posted 06 November 2012 - 18:00
I still really don't agree with your second paragraph, but I reckon that what you said is a fair analysis.
Would like to know why. Focusing on Lotus vs Ferrari. I give my reasons:
Lotus opened a gap with soft tyres, with or without cars in front of Alonso. With Alonso on traffic, the gap opened quickly, without it, slowly. The 10 seconds gap wasn´t all down to pace advantage, at least 3-4 of that was Alonso racing other people. So Lotus was faster on options for me, but not as much as these 10 seconds..
With primes, while Alonso was struggling on the opening laps of stint/restarts, he was able to eat the gap at a good pace, at a similar rate than the Lotus opened it. Put Alonso 6 seconds behind Kimi after the pitstop -roughly what he would lose on first stint without having to race anyone-, don´t interrupt the race, and he´ll catch him over the 25-30 laps the last stint would last.
In other words, put these two cars doing a race distance TT, and they´ll end together. Who knows which one marginally in front. So no, you can´t claim "Lotus showed better race pace", just as I can´t claim that Ferrari did. Because it´s too close to call.
You may believe that in reality it is that Alonso is a worse driver or that Kimi can make a car to run faster than it can (again ), but that would be only a way to hide your head beneath to ignore the truth.
But sir, he doesn´t say that anywhere, unlike the guy he was answering does in the other direction. Good to know that you think the logic of the guy writting before him is flawed and it´s "ignoring the truth".
#2926
Posted 06 November 2012 - 19:33
MTV3 : Heikki's manager summoned to Enstone but is still stuck in Maranello. 'Told to tell no one', Heikki exclusively revealed to us earlier.
#2927
Posted 06 November 2012 - 20:00
Assuming things about others like that is a really ugly thing to do. I won't dislike you still for doing so, since I tend to give plenty of chances to everyone. Not that you should care of course, but I like to point it out just in case.
Kimi did make a difference yesterday and such is my consideration about what he did. See that for instance his team-mate was not being noticeable at all with the same car.
But, that doesn't mean that stating that the Lotus was only the 4th fastest lap is fair or correct either. What speed trap did you look at? If you are talking about something like this that will surely lead you to a misleading conclusion.
Because live speed traps during the race were suggesting me on my phone that in spite of Alonso could register fastest laps during some laps, overall during the race the Lotus registered faster laps more firmly. You may think (or maybe not) that was because Alonso took out less from his car than Kimi did, but looking at the tires field I think it just seemed that the Lotus was managing the tires much better in this track (actually the Lotus has shown some brilliance in that regard at some tracks, while yeah, in others it was the opposite maybe). Only by the end of the race (when it actually didn't matter anymore) the hards seemed to work better for Ferrari.
So yeah, I think Lotus was a faster car yesterday, the tires are part of the car after all and those seemed to work better for Lotus at Yibbi Dabbi. It is also that part regarding the Renault engines (see how Williams was unusually good again).
Kimi did make a difference yesterday, he was really good and special, but I don't buy that the Lotus was just the 4th fastest car yesterday as you stated. Sorry, I just don't agree with it.
Ok I take your justification and don't agree. 4 th fastest and Kimi made it work better. In part because Alonso did not nail Quali, and Webber and Maldonado couldn't make a proper start.
#2928
Posted 06 November 2012 - 20:16
Man, I hope they swap Grosjean for Heikki. A thousand times over.This seems relevant to this thread as well
#2929
Posted 06 November 2012 - 20:24
Man, I hope they swap Grosjean for Heikki. A thousand times over.
I don't know...for finns it wouldn't be too nice to see other finn to lose and to see Heikki quite often ahead of Kimi after quali wouldn't be too nice...althought after the race it would be Kimi more often in front. Heikki would be saver for Lotus however as he won't do stupid things like Grosjean and is amazing over one lap, he also has many friends at his former team...so it's possible and we already know Heikki has asked from Lotus a seat, Boullier said they will sit down with him and his managers but there wouldn't be place in their team as a racing driver because Kimi and Romain stay....but things have changed since then and Romains seat is not so sure anymore.
Edited by Vesuvius, 06 November 2012 - 20:26.
#2930
Posted 06 November 2012 - 20:27
#2931
Posted 06 November 2012 - 20:36
...especially not if Total follows Pic...
Any source to back this claim up?
#2932
Posted 06 November 2012 - 20:44
#2933
Posted 06 November 2012 - 21:05
You rate Heikki too much.I don't know...for finns it wouldn't be too nice to see other finn to lose and to see Heikki quite often ahead of Kimi after quali wouldn't be too nice...althought after the race it would be Kimi more often in front. Heikki would be saver for Lotus however as he won't do stupid things like Grosjean and is amazing over one lap, he also has many friends at his former team...so it's possible and we already know Heikki has asked from Lotus a seat, Boullier said they will sit down with him and his managers but there wouldn't be place in their team as a racing driver because Kimi and Romain stay....but things have changed since then and Romains seat is not so sure anymore.
#2934
Posted 06 November 2012 - 21:10
YesMan, I hope they swap Grosjean for Heikki. A thousand times over.
#2935
Posted 06 November 2012 - 21:29
My vote for no. Kovalainen is a bit overrated in my opinion, Grosjean is more error prone but I think he has much more raw speed. He should be much stronger next year.Man, I hope they swap Grosjean for Heikki. A thousand times over.
#2936
Posted 06 November 2012 - 21:35
You know, there was a time when they said that Kovy looked to be just as fast as Kimi. When he came up through the ranks. He could use a second chance in a quick car. Would bring in the points and even surprise some people methinks.My vote for no. Kovalainen is a bit overrated in my opinion, Grosjean is more error prone but I think he has much more raw speed. He should be much stronger next year.
#2937
Posted 06 November 2012 - 21:58
This seems relevant to this thread as well
This quote is made up..
#2938
Posted 07 November 2012 - 03:51
#2939
Posted 07 November 2012 - 05:13
1.These really arent new..we hear about the Enstone based team selling out every year.yet it never happens.
2.As Korzeniew pointed out,the team just spent a truck load of money on CFD,a new state of the art wind tunnel(reads Scarbsf1) amongst other things..this made their yearly budget even higher than Mercedes GP this season..Highly unlikely a team would be investing this much into a project if they are thinking of leaving the sport next year.
3.KR's strongly rumored to have agreed on a 10 million salary for next year..that is no lean amount no matter how good the driver is.if Lotus can afford that ,then where are the big financial troubles exactly?
4.As per rumors and KR's post race comments,it does look like the team may be financially 'stretched' but then other than Ferrari and RB,who isnt?..Even Mclaren were rumored to no longer be in a position to pay heavy salaries to top guys like Hamilton.
5.With KR,the returning WDC winning in AD..if they cant get new sponsors now,then no other team will either.
Edited by grunge, 07 November 2012 - 05:15.
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#2940
Posted 07 November 2012 - 09:18
#2941
Posted 07 November 2012 - 09:25
The team appears to be running the device today:
... and that looks like pre-coanda exhaust
#2942
Posted 07 November 2012 - 10:07
Then it's true, it doesn't look like DRD will be raced this season
#2943
Posted 07 November 2012 - 10:10
I think they have separate panels for exhaust area and DRD area, don't they?So they don't have engine cover manufactured for both systems, the DRD and Coanda together.
Then it's true, it doesn't look like DRD will be raced this season
the reason behind running the older exhaust could be that they want to test it with the specification used when they first tried the DRD.
#2944
Posted 07 November 2012 - 10:14
I think they have separate panels for exhaust area and DRD area, don't they?
the reason behind running the older exhaust could be that they want to test it with the specification used when they first tried the DRD.
That seems reasonable, we will see
#2946
Posted 07 November 2012 - 11:05
Some more pictures:
Thanks.
Is it me or does the DRD look more refined than they last ran it?
#2947
Posted 07 November 2012 - 11:11
Im sorry. But I seem to have missed when we went from "Lotus DDRS" to DRD. What is DRD now? Double Reduction Drag or something?Thanks.
Is it me or does the DRD look more refined than they last ran it?
#2948
Posted 07 November 2012 - 11:12
drag reduction deviceIm sorry. But I seem to have missed when we went from "Lotus DDRS" to DRD. What is DRD now? Double Reduction Drag or something?
#2949
Posted 07 November 2012 - 11:18
#2950
Posted 07 November 2012 - 13:19
Does anyone have a good idea about who replaced Mike Elliot as head of aero after he went to Merc?
Dirk DeBeer is and was Head of Aero, Mike Elliot wasn't head of aero at Lotus.