123 replies to this topic

[Fatgadget]

Perez not ready for Ferrari.

He he! The young gun who has convincingly shown a clean pair of heals to both Ferraris' drivers on a couple of occasions in an underfunded team is not worthy!....maybe Sergio is not ready yet to play back door b*itch eh Luca!

[Flamini]

1. He lacks experience.
2. Sauber team often say how good their car really is so probably Perez sometimes underperforms.
3. http://www.gpnow.com...aldis...ssive”/
4. I hope you understand that Alonso would finish ahead of Perez in Monza withour car problem (Q3 + damaged parts in race)
5. Ferrari will sign Vettel anyway.

[Jimisgod]

1. He lacks experience.
2. Sauber team often say how good their car really is so probably Perez sometimes underperforms.
3. http://www.gpnow.com...aldis...ssive”/
4. I hope you understand that Alonso would finish ahead of Perez in Monza withour car problem (Q3 + damaged parts in race)
5. Ferrari will sign Vettel anyway.

1. One can gain experience, but not speed. *cough* Massa.
2. As opposed to Massa who always underperforms?
3. So Perez might not cave in to badly hidden code words telling him to slow down for Alonso, like Massa does?
4. Damaged parts in race? And Massa might have finished ahead of Alonso had the thing holding the steering wheel not been faulty.
5. So what team is Alonso moving to then?

[telstar]

imo, Pérez is ready...
but Nando is not ready to team up with super-fast Sergio!

[TheWilliamzer]

Because that seat consumes so much electricity that the Ferrari garage can't cope with.

[/troll]

I think Luca wants Carlos to pay more.

[Flamini]

1. One can gain experience, but not speed. *cough* Massa.
2. As opposed to Massa who always underperforms?
3. So Perez might not cave in to badly hidden code words telling him to slow down for Alonso, like Massa does?
4. Damaged parts in race? And Massa might have finished ahead of Alonso had the thing holding the steering wheel not been faulty.
5. So what team is Alonso moving to then?

1. But ATM he still lacks experience.
2. Not always and it is not easy when Alonso is your teammate. Famous quote comes to mind: "He was such a good driver that, to try to get to his level, I had to push myself in ways I did not know even existed" I believe Massa feels the same.
3. You don't understand what Baldisserri said.
4. http://en.espnf1.com...tory/88633.html And please, get real, Alonso would destroy Massa in this race without Q3 problem.
5. Alonso has contract to 2016, so Vettel...well Vettel: http://en.espnf1.com...tory/86523.html and Alonso is probably absolutely sure that he can beat Vettel anyway

[Jovanotti]

The only ones who are not ready here are Alonso and Ferrari. Anyway, I hope Perez gets a decent car next year at McLaren, Mercedes or Lotus

Edited by Jovanotti, 13 September 2012 - 12:15.

[Jimisgod]

Perez has driven 30 F1 races.

That is more than half of the 51 official F1 WDC races Fangio drove in his career. By the time he had racked up 30 starts, Jim Clark was an 8 time winner and well on his way to being WDC in 1963. Schumacher had already won 1 time by the time he completed his first 30, Senna won 2 times in his first 30 and Prost an impressive 5 times.

Alonso won his 30th race and therefore had 4 podiums compared to the 3 Perez has in his first 30. 3 podiums is equal to what Kimi achieved in 30 races, too.

I'm sorry, but the 'he lacks the experience' claim is just weak. If you have the skill...

Edited by Jimisgod, 13 September 2012 - 12:48.

[forixfan]

Perez is still very raw and made a number of mistakes this season. Everyone is just focusing on his few great results, but hes very hit and miss.

[jeze]

Pérez had already been signed hadn't Ferrari gunned for a big fish i.e. Vettel.

The fact that the team has treaded the "inexperienced" line all season is probably a result of negotiations with Vettel about a future drive. Ferrari want to keep a seat open for him, and there is no way a 22-year old driver who's finished on the podium three times is going to accept a one-year deal only to be booted out. Pérez could still be part of Ferrari's post-Alonso plans but then he'll have raced for another top team before but retaining Ferrari relations (Lotus could perhaps accept such a deal in the future). Aside from that as long as Sauber have funding they're likely to be a top six team even in the future.

[gm914]

Perez is still very raw and made a number of mistakes this season. Everyone is just focusing on his few great results, but hes very hit and miss.

It's better than the miss and miss they have currently. Put him in I say! He's exciting.

[Seanspeed]

Perez is still very raw and made a number of mistakes this season. Everyone is just focusing on his few great results, but hes very hit and miss.

First time I'm saying this - but I agree with you.

When put on a more typical strategy, he's more often than not having a pretty mediocre race. He isn't consistently quick enough for me to want him in a Ferrari. His best results come down to a differing strategy thats worked, which isn't something that Ferrari would be doing with him very much if he's expected to be racing at the front week-in, week-out.

I'm a fan of the guy but I dont think he's done enough yet. He's gotta prove better than Kobayashi on a more consistent basis.

[Disgrace]

Didn't Ferrari seriously pursue Raikkonen for 2002 before McLaren nabbed him from their clutches? When he entered F1, Kimi was among the least experienced ever, so if he was ready surely Perez is.

[Jimisgod]

Perez is still very raw and made a number of mistakes this season. Everyone is just focusing on his few great results, but hes very hit and miss.

Hit and miss is how all champions start. 15 of Prost's first 30 races were DNFs, and 10 for M. Schumacher.

[Tenmantaylor]

Perez has proven himself to be much better than Massa ever was already IMO so Luca looks a fool with these comments.

[Seanspeed]

Hit and miss is how all champions start. 15 of Prost's first 30 races were DNFs, and 10 for M. Schumacher.

A lot of those reliability issues in Prost's case.

Perez has proven himself to be much better than Massa ever was already IMO so Luca looks a fool with these comments.

No he hasn't man. Not even close.

Why are F1 fans fooled so easily by the 'you're only as good as your last race' fallacy?

Edited by Seanspeed, 13 September 2012 - 12:56.

[Disgrace]

Massa was pretty good in the last race, but he is still the worst driver of the season (embarrassing last season too) and must vacant his seat for someone with more potential at the very least.

Edited by Disgrace, 13 September 2012 - 12:58.

[jeze]

Didn't Ferrari seriously pursue Raikkonen for 2002 before McLaren nabbed him from their clutches? When he entered F1, Kimi was among the least experienced ever, so if he was ready surely Perez is.

It was more a question of a different mentality at the team management back then. Todt always had a manlove for Räikkönen and wanted him, and he also wanted a #2 driver that couldn't threaten Schumacher, Barrichello also had a strained relationship with the team management after the first Austrian scandal (2001) so Todt was essentially desperate in trying to replace him. When Kimi turned down Ferrari for not wanting to be #2 he and Barrichello smoked a peace pipe and agreed a new deal.

This time it's different, since Domenicali and LdM want two drivers to be able to challenge for titles, like Red Bull and McLaren have had lately. Had Vettel simply told Ferrari to "shove it" and that he was staying at Red Bull, Ferrari would've surely bitten the bullet and signed Pérez on a long-term deal, hoping that the fact that he's been outqualified by Kobayashi (much to my astonishment) is just a temporary flaw. But considering how much better driver Alonso is compared to Kobayashi and that Checo is in general a couple of tenths off Koba... we're talking about a worse qualifying record than Massa. That means that as long as the Ferrari is a competitive car Massa can qualify inside the top four, whereas Pérez would be in seventh or eight even in a competitive Ferrari. The Sauber was a rocketship around Spa and he was still some way off Button's pole time.

Edited by jeze, 13 September 2012 - 13:02.

[Jimisgod]

No he hasn't man. Not even close.

Why are F1 fans fooled so easily by the 'you're only as good as your last race' fallacy?

He has proven he has the 'potential' to be much better though. It's like scoffing at someone looking at Schumacher in 1992 and saying Michael is 'better' than perennial #2 Patrese, because Patrese had won more races by then.

[fabr68]

People need to relax. What Luca is really saying is that Perez is not ready for Ferrari as a no. 1. Since he is too good for a support driver I think Ferrari will keep an eye on his career as a potential successor to Alonso / Vettel.

Alonso would murder Perez career right now.

Edited by fabr68, 13 September 2012 - 13:13.

[Seanspeed]

He has proven he has the 'potential' to be much better though.

I disagree. He's definitely pulling off these one-stop races quite well once in a while, but he really needs to step it up when he's on a more normal strategy. Whenever that happens, more often than not, he doesn't do anything special at all.

He has potential, I agree, but I dont think he's proven capable of exploiting it often enough.

[selespeed]

more often than not, he doesn't do anything special at all.

what did massa do that is special this year?

[OneAndOnly]

Motezemolo actually said that Perez is inexperienced to handle Ferrari pressure, not inexperienced to drive for Ferrari. I am pretty sure he would collect more points than Massa, but to match Alonso? Kinda doubt it. He might have speed, but not consistency of Alosno.

[Fatgadget]

People need to relax. What Luca is really saying is that Perez is not ready for Ferrari as a no. 1. Since he is too good for a support driver I think Ferrari will keep an eye on his career as a potential successor to Alonso / Vettel.

Alonso would murder Perez career right now.

I remember something along similar lines being said way back in 2006 when a certain Lewis Hamilton was proffered as Alonso's team mate at McLaren!

[icewest07]

People need to relax. What Luca is really saying is that Perez is not ready for Ferrari as a no. 1. Since he is too good for a support driver I think Ferrari will keep an eye on his career as a potential successor to Alonso / Vettel.

Alonso would murder Perez career right now.

Not quite sure about that, I'd rather think Alonso is the one not welcoming Perez in the team right now. It's too risky for his reputation...
In a way, Vettel is a safer bet, since he's already 2xWDC and if he looses a neck-and-neck fight against Sebastian, the world could understand but if Perez comes in as soon as 2013, and pull a '07-Hamilton against him... Well, well, well do I need to say more here?

[fabr68]

I remember something along similar lines being said way back in 2006 when a certain Lewis Hamilton was proffered as Alonso's team mate at McLaren!

So you think that Perez is as good or better than Hamilton?

[Red17]

/troll
This is simply Luca doing his weekly Illidan impression. He is practicing for Massa.
/troll

Honestly I think Ferrari is simply letting Perez grow up in a no pressure team like Sauber. He would be wasted paired with Fernando and... /troll let's face it, it's too much spanish heritage to merge with the already problematic italian dna, bound to be deadly /troll

[Flamini]

I remember something along similar lines being said way back in 2006 when a certain Lewis Hamilton was proffered as Alonso's team mate at McLaren!

Hamilton is one of the biggest talents in the history of Formula 1. Do you really believe that Perez in on Hamilton's level?

Edited by Flamini, 13 September 2012 - 14:10.

[Fatgadget]

So you think that Perez is as good or better than Hamilton?

Perez. He is the real deal yes.....I also think he won't play back door bitch for no one.

[Watkins74]

I find Perez very unimpressive.

[Tenmantaylor]

Would be hilarious if Ferrari put Jules Bianchi in the 2nd seat now. Nepotism > Experience.

[fabr68]

Perez. He is the real deal yes.....I also think he won't play back door bitch for no one.

I disagree that Perez is even close to Hamilton's talent. Hamilton could have won a race or two in that Sauber already.

[Flamini]

Qualifying: 8-5 to Kobayashi (6-2 in the last 8 races).
Race: 4-3 to Perez (without DNFs)

[tifosi]

Perez not ready for Ferrari.

He he! The young gun who has convincingly shown a clean pair of heals to both Ferraris' drivers on a couple of occasions in an underfunded team is not worthy!....maybe Sergio is not ready yet to play back door b*itch eh Luca!

Do you understand what happens to a driver for Ferrari? Driving is ponly a msall part of the picture. The press is relentless and can easily destory a young person who is not ready.

[jeze]

Qualifying: 8-5 to Kobayashi (6-2 in the last 8 races).
Race: 4-3 to Perez (without DNFs)

Had Pérez destroyed Kobayashi, who is a rather average driver IMHO he'd already be at Maranello signing the contract. But Ferrari will have no reason to believe he's even close to Vettel's ability right now, so they need to go down that path before signing Pérez possibly in 2014 as fall-back option.

[Fatgadget]

I find Perez very unimpressive.

I do.

We probly reside on different planets then!

[Collective]

It's just not convenient for anyone:

- Ferrari wants a reliable wingman for Alonso. Checo doesn't want a wingman role. Neither do his sponsors.

- Ferrari wants a short term deal to bring Vettel in. That would give Checo a tiny 1 season opportunity to convince. He presumably wants a long term agreement.

- Size of both FIAT and Santander in brazilian market can't be easily overlooked, so I guess there's some commercial pressure too.

- There is a chance that the money needed to get Checo in that seat is above what Slim Jr. wants to pay. He can probably get both Checo and Esteban Gutiérrez in Sauber for less money, and without any of them having to be someone else's b**ch.

Edited by Collective, 13 September 2012 - 14:41.

[Fatgadget]

It's just not convenient for anyone:

- Ferrari wants a reliable wingman for Alonso. and without any of them having to be someone else's b**ch.

You have nailed it apart from the language!...A back door bitch that's what Ferrari want as No 2 driver.And no way i see that in young Sergio Perez.

[gm914]

Sadly, I think they'll go with Massa again next year, and it'll be just to placate Fernando, and very likely, FIAT's presence in the Brazilian market.

Meanwhile, their chances of winning WCC takes a further nosedive on their list of priorities.

Enzo would not approve.

[jeze]

Sadly, I think they'll go with Massa again next year, and it'll be just to placate Fernando, and very likely, FIAT's presence in the Brazilian market.

Meanwhile, their chances of winning WCC takes a further nosedive on their list of priorities.

Enzo would not approve.

Enzo operated in the exact same manner, at least in the mid 1980's when he put Johansson in the car alongside Alboreto for a couple of seasons whilst tapping up Berger and Mansell who would become team mates for the 1989 season. Mansell signed a contract with Ferrari during his Piquet struggles but since he had a binding agreement with Williams it was annulled and Enzo had to wait for two more years before he could bin Alboreto. By the time Mansell won his first race with Ferrari, Enzo had already passed away.

The first rumours about Ferrari having eyes on Vettel started back in 2008 and it's been fairly obvious that there is a mutual admiration between them. Had we not had the situation where Ferrari are trying to seal a deal for a multiple WDC there's a chance they'd let Pérez drive their car next season on a long-term deal. But this is still a very Enzo-esque situation. Also whenever there are lots of speculation about a driver to Ferrari two years before it's made sense before. Most people knew that Räikkönen was coming back in 2005 and it was the same with Alonso in 2008. Ferrari love pre-agreements and first options. And provided they've sealed the first-option on a WDC they might as well not bother about the one they have on a guy who struggles to be faster than Kobayashi?

[dau]

I remember something along similar lines being said way back in 2006 when a certain Lewis Hamilton was proffered as Alonso's team mate at McLaren!

Yea. At McLaren.

[Watkins74]

I do.

We probly reside on different planets then!

Looks like you live on Planet Smiley.

[Jimisgod]

Hamilton is one of the biggest talents in the history of Formula 1. Do you really believe that Perez in on Hamilton's level?

Exactly what F1 experience did Lewis have when he joined McLaren in 2007?

And before you say 'but this is Ferrari, derp, we need teh experience' : the Alonso - Massa combination has delivered 9 wins thus far, while Hamilton - Button have reached 16 wins together. Whatever McLaren is doing its working better in the long run than Ferrari.

Edited by Jimisgod, 13 September 2012 - 16:00.

[Fatgadget]

Looks like you live on Planet Smiley.

Call it what you will mate!

[jeze]

Exactly what F1 experience did Lewis have when he joined McLaren in 2007?

And before you say 'but this is Ferrari, derp, we need teh experience' : the Alonso - Massa combination has delivered 9 wins thus far, while Hamilton - Button have reached 16 wins together. Whatever McLaren is doing its working better in the long run than Ferrari.

Alonso was three points away from a world title. McLaren haven't run it that close. Hamilton was like 15 points away that year?

[Ferrari2183]

Apart from the Malaysia race all Perez other podiums were down to him being on a different strategy that happened to work come race day. He hasn't shown that same level of performance when starting on the same strategy as others. Don't get me wrong, all his podiums have been impressive but it is hardly earth shattering stuff.

As the weeks go by it is becoming more and more likely that Massa will retain the seat and as a Ferrari fan I can't say I am happy about it but I don't think Perez is the answer.

[Jimisgod]

Alonso was three points away from a world title. McLaren haven't run it that close. Hamilton was like 15 points away that year?

Let us not rehash 2010, but I recall Lewis being Lewis and taking his car out with collisions in two consecutive races. Of course you may argue a more experienced driver may not do that, but then we return to the original argument about Lewis being more experienced than Perez when he pulled said moves

In fact, didn't Lewis nuff his shot at Monza 2010 with a failed move on Massa in the same spot Perez pulled brilliance on Kimi for a clean pass this year? But let's not break the delusions of some.

I love the fact that Hamilton's rash moves and aggression that often gets him into strife are 'indicative of his skill', but similar aggression with vastly fewer accidents shows how 'inexperienced' and 'unimpressive' Perez is.

Edited by Jimisgod, 13 September 2012 - 16:42.

[Flamini]

Exactly what F1 experience did Lewis have when he joined McLaren in 2007?

Hamilton is a unique case. He was the most prepared rookie driver ever in F1 (Ron Denis quote). So he started on very high level (+ an enormous talent).

[Desdirodeabike]

Perez not ready for Ferrari.

Yea right.
No, the real reason is more likely what Gregory Haines from GPupdate points out here: Insight: Pérez threat too much for Alonso...

Alonsos history proves this very much in my opinion.

[Jimisgod]

Hamilton is a unique case. He was the most prepared rookie driver ever in F1 (Ron Denis quote). So he started on very high level (+ an enormous talent).

http://www.logicalfa...-true-scotsman/

http://www.fallacyfi...g/specplea.html

http://en.wikipedia....cking_(fallacy)

So? Perez was brought up in a similar kind of 'racing academy' within Ferrari as Hamilton had in McLaren. Perez still answers to said academy for some form of work.

Lewis still had zero real world experience F1 racing, and that came to show in 2010 and 2011. Most drivers slog through midfield teams and learn to maximize points rather than risking good results on borderline moves like what cost him in those years, particularly 2010 when, as I said before, he could have been up there with Alonso and Vettel without a number of collisions that mostly had to do with racing room. So by the end of the year who is to say Perez doesn't have different experience to Lewis, who was dropped straight into the WCC winning car.

Hamilton did have 2009 where the car was midfield for all intents and purposes, but that just means he had 1 year of running in such a team compared to the 2 Perez will have by 2013. I never quite understood what happened to Lewis after 2009, which was far and away his most impressive and consistent season - both 2010 and 2011 were very hit and miss.

Edited by Jimisgod, 13 September 2012 - 17:11.