4021 replies to this topic

[Harry]

Somehow I doubt this is the actual exhaust we will see in Jerez.

Does it bother anyone that teams like McLaren launch their cars to the media/public with placeholder parts?

What's the point? If they're going to do that they may as well just launch it on the day of first testing.

It pisses me off to be honest.

[ForeverF1]

Does it bother anyone that teams like McLaren launch their cars to the media/public with placeholder parts?

What's the point? If they're going to do that they may as well just launch it on the day of first testing.

It pisses me off to be honest.

It is a marketing exercise, nothing more, nothing less. Cars did not used to be revealed until the first race of the season.

[Anonymous]

scarbs

http://www.youtube.c...p;v=Dk9o9d4oBz8

New sponsors coming in, nice to hear that.

[rsaca]

Very cool comparative graph by Marca. Slide left or right to get the comparisons between this year and last year's Mclaren.

Mclaren Interactive Comparison

[BigCHrome]

ScarbsF1: It looks like the car under the sheet in the teaser shots was the MP4 28. Def looks a high chassis/nose panel

BigChrome? Looks like scarbs agrees with me

It wasn't the -28. The teaser car had a t-cam and different shaped nose.

[shonguiz]

Can someone post photos of the P1 Jenson used ?

[ForeverF1]

Can someone post photos of the P1 Jenson used ?

P1-Mp4-28?

[BernieEc]

lovely looking car and I will go further as to call it the RB9 killer. ..oh lewis why did you have to leave?????

[Kvothe]

New sponsors coming in, nice to hear that.

All Mexican of course, which helps us to understand why the vastly more impressive Hulkenberg was somewhat overlooked, something that Frank Williams mentioned in an interview with Windsor a few months ago.

[Anonymous]

Can someone post photos of the P1 Jenson used ?

Check your inbox.

All Mexican of course, which helps us to understand why the vastly more impressive Hulkenberg was somewhat overlooked, something that Frank Williams mentioned in an interview with Windsor a few months ago.

That is not true.

Edited by Anonymous, 31 January 2013 - 17:48.

[shonguiz]

P1-Mp4-28?

No the McLaren P1, the civil car not the F1 machine.

[Tombstone]

A James Allen technical analysis you say?

They're almost as good as Gary "I think they will go for 1, 2, 3, or 4 pitstops this race" Anderson.

[ForeverF1]

Can someone post photos of the P1 Jenson used ?

P1-Mp4-28?

No the McLaren P1, the civil car not the F1 machine.

Whoosh...

[jrg19]

All Mexican of course, which helps us to understand why the vastly more impressive Hulkenberg was somewhat overlooked, something that Frank Williams mentioned in an interview with Windsor a few months ago.

I guess the Aigo space is still missing, would be nice to get something there again.

[MirNyet]

Does it bother anyone that teams like McLaren launch their cars to the media/public with placeholder parts?

What's the point? If they're going to do that they may as well just launch it on the day of first testing.

It pisses me off to be honest.

This purely a mock up car for the press - the real one is elsewhere being worked up for the first test. If you were to start pulling the car to pieces you would likely find that it didn't even have an engine etc.

[Kvothe]

That is not true.

I disagree but this is the wrong thread for such a topic

This purely a mock up car for the press - the real one is elsewhere being worked up for the first test. If you were to start pulling the car to pieces you would likely find that it didn't even have an engine etc.

In the Scarbs interview, Peter Windsor (to paraphrase) mentioned the team wanting to hurry up and pack the car for the first test, which implies it was something more than just a mock up.

[string158]

This purely a mock up car for the press - the real one is elsewhere being worked up for the first test. If you were to start pulling the car to pieces you would likely find that it didn't even have an engine etc.

Exectly. It would have been more fun, and fitting, to have had one of the drivers drive it on like with the old Mclaren cars...

[MirNyet]

I disagree but this is the wrong thread for such a topic



In the Scarbs interview, Peter Windsor (to paraphrase) mentioned the team wanting to hurry up and pack the car for the first test, which implies it was something more than just a mock up.

If this was the car they need for the first test, would you allow the press to pull, prod and generally have their hands all over it The comment about needing to get the car away is that they won't have a lot of parts at the moment, so they need all of the 2013 spec bits they have for the first test - a lot of them being on this car. Doesn't mean that this is the chassis that will roll out of the garage next week in spain. I could be wrong of course - just doesn't seem likely as they effectively lose a full day with the car to the press at such an important time of the year. Makes more sense to run a mock up out for the press while they use every hour possible with the test car elsewhere in the building.

[Kvothe]

Exectly. It would have been more fun, and fitting, to have had one of the drivers drive it on like with the old McLaren cars...

Not necessarily; the teams are apparently able to gather a lot of information just from analyzing the sounds of the engine, and despite the chances being extreme low that any team could glean anything valuable from what would presumably be such a short run, I'm sure McLaren would prefer not to give their rivals anything. Also to get the car up and running would require adding more parts that McLaren might wish to hide until the last possible moment, and so delay their rivals copying them.

[maverick69]

scarbs

http://www.youtube.c...p;v=Dk9o9d4oBz8

Good stuff!

BTW - Has Scarbs had a health scare/accident or something? Everyone giving him large for still being here etc.

Hope he is well!

[olliek88]

Good stuff!

BTW - Has Scarbs had a health scare/accident or something? Everyone giving him large for still being here etc.

Hope he is well!

Yep, he had a heart attack back in November i think! Scary stuff.

[jjcale]

The car look great .... so far so good

Edited by jjcale, 31 January 2013 - 19:01.

[maverick69]

Yep, he had a heart attack back in November i think! Scary stuff.

Bloody hell!

Well. I know it's O/T. But if you're reading this Scarbs - then all the best - and don't pop off too soon as I love reading your technical stuff

Edited by maverick69, 31 January 2013 - 18:32.

[Kvothe]

If this was the car they need for the first test, would you allow the press to pull, prod and generally have their hands all over it The comment about needing to get the car away is that they won't have a lot of parts at the moment, so they need all of the 2013 spec bits they have for the first test - a lot of them being on this car. Doesn't mean that this is the chassis that will roll out of the garage next week in spain. I could be wrong of course - just doesn't seem likely as they effectively lose a full day with the car to the press at such an important time of the year. Makes more sense to run a mock up out for the press while they use every hour possible with the test car elsewhere in the building.

You do raise a valid point in regards to allowing the press to touch it, but if you consider that the most sensitive parts of the car to damage, the front and rear wings are likely to be changed for the first test, and that it probably doesn't have all the internals in, or the proper exhaust attached, than I don't see why McLaren wouldn't allow it. The car will be stripped down anyway and rebuilt in Jerez (like at every other GP) with the new parts, I fully agree that it probably isn't a complete car but I do think it is something more than a mock up (although reading your post again, I do feel we're both somewhat converging on the same point of view anyway)

What would they do with the other test car anyway? AFAIA teams can only use 60% scale wind models, or CFD to design the cars along with other processes (simulator ect) but the actual car itself i assume only gets added to and plays no role in development except for when its on track. I do agree however they are likely to have other chassis.

[Shiroo]

http://www.marca.com...1359643880.html

that front... so tanky. God damn it, it looks like a god damn tank. In general car looks nice, but that front wing looks REALLY MASSIVE. Whenever I look at it, it feels like it would scream: "COME AT ME BRO"

[0113Greenall]

Mclaren mentioned the car to be 1 second faster than it was in brazil, i am sceptical of that because in aus in 2012 the pole time was-
HAM 1.24.922. If we say they gained 1 sec in the season through development, we can expect a 1.22.9 in Aus!
But the rb6 with EBD ect, only managed VET 1.23.919 (pole)
Can we really expect the mp4-28 to be any where near the class of the Rb6?? Without EBD? I just can't see that tbh.

[olliek88]

Mclaren mentioned the car to be 1 second faster than it was in brazil, i am sceptical of that because in aus in 2012 the pole time was-
HAM 1.24.922. If we say they gained 1 sec in the season through development, we can expect a 1.22.9 in Aus!
But the rb6 with EBD ect, only managed VET 1.23.919 (pole)
Can we really expect the mp4-28 to be any where near the class of the Rb6?? Without EBD? I just can't see that tbh.

Last years qualy times are irrelevant because of DRS use being limited in qualy this year so that must be a good chunk of time lost.

[charly0418]

Last years qualy times are irrelevant because of DRS use being limited in qualy this year so that must be a good chunk of time lost.

Yep, even more so for Red Bull. If I recall correctly Kimi said Red Bull had a huge advantage of being able to use DRS in some sectors other teams couldnt thanks to their car stability and downforce.

[MirNyet]

You do raise a valid point in regards to allowing the press to touch it, but if you consider that the most sensitive parts of the car to damage, the front and rear wings are likely to be changed for the first test, and that it probably doesn't have all the internals in, or the proper exhaust attached, than I don't see why McLaren wouldn't allow it. The car will be stripped down anyway and rebuilt in Jerez (like at every other GP) with the new parts, I fully agree that it probably isn't a complete car but I do think it is something more than a mock up (although reading your post again, I do feel we're both somewhat converging on the same point of view anyway)

What would they do with the other test car anyway? AFAIA teams can only use 60% scale wind models, or CFD to design the cars along with other processes (simulator ect) but the actual car itself i assume only gets added to and plays no role in development except for when its on track. I do agree however they are likely to have other chassis.

Well, it's not that they have another test car, its that they built a mock up for the press out of development bits - so much of the car would have been locked last year (due to regs etc) that they can safely build more than one instance of the part - also, they will need parts in case of the driver stuffing the car at the first test, or parts failures etc. So, rather than lose preparation time for a press event, they simply have one of the race teams assemble a mock up which is then broken down for its parts immediately afterwards?

As I said, I am likely wrong in this - but it does explain why the car on the first day of testing always looks different.

edit: Also, looking at that slider posted, a few of the parts on the car look like 2012 spec parts - the airbox cover for instance. Again, this would suggest that this is not the test car.

Edited by MirNyet, 31 January 2013 - 19:24.

[alframsey]

Right I have just got in from work and cannot be arsed to read through all these pages, read a few articles though and can say I'm quietly confident we will be good to go next season. Bring it on!

[Brandz07]

Very cool comparative graph by Marca. Slide left or right to get the comparisons between this year and last year's Mclaren.

Mclaren Interactive Comparison

It would be great if they could compare the Brazil spec car to the new one, of course they don't take proper photos at the end of the season, which is a shame.

[Mc_Silver]

scarbs

http://www.youtube.c...p;v=Dk9o9d4oBz8

Great video. I really like this kind of videos. Thanks McLaren for allowing that. I am sure not many teams would have such transparency

[maverick69]

Great video. I really like this kind of videos. Thanks McLaren for allowing that. I am sure not many teams would have such transparency

Dude. You should check their engine covers!

[anti]

comparison (photos MP4-28 vs MP4-27)

[H2H]

Looks nice indeed and I love the clean suspension design and shaply pods. I certainly look forward to see that car with all the proper parts at the last tests and first race.

[SCUDmissile]

Maybe coming in a little late, but looks like it has a shorter wheelbase. Nice looking car.

[JRizzle86]

Dude. You should check their engine covers!

Bo bum "imitates double drum hit"

[JRizzle86]

http://www.marca.com...1359643880.html

that front... so tanky. God damn it, it looks like a god damn tank. In general car looks nice, but that front wing looks REALLY MASSIVE. Whenever I look at it, it feels like it would scream: "COME AT ME BRO"

In all honestly after seeing Lewis tangle in Brazil with Hulkenberg i hope it is built like a tank.

[Lemans]

comparison (photos MP4-28 vs MP4-27)

Man! The /27 was so pretty.

[chumma]

Anyone else notice the front Enkei wheels? Lots of development has gone into though, just look around the wheel nuts, looks like Jaws. I think the Tim Goss article, mainly the exhaust question/answers is a bit of a smokescreen, I'm hoping it is, because from all analysis from last year, the Red Bull solution is the better one. I just hope McLaren don't go down the 'it works for us so we'll stick with it' avenue and at least try a different solution. I feel optimistic though, because even having the fastest car last year, our airflow under the car was somewhat handicapped by the lower chassis, so to me there is alot of development potential under the monocoque.

They have removable panels on the leading top edge of the sidepods, one would suggest these are the cooling windows seen on most McLaren's these past few seasons for the hotter races but also these piece may come out completely with the sidepod winglets being fitted in place instead.

The back end still look very clustered, must be due to the sidepods not sucking in ike the Red Bull but staying wider and swooping in later, but I think our brake ducts, front and rear, will be heavily reworked for the Jerez test, most teams don't even have the intakes at the front anymore, Ferrari's approach in this area is lovely, tiny little slots, not big air scoops. Red Bull's rear brake ducts were very advanced last season and I think they gained alot of performance from these, I am hoping we follow suit.

and lastly, is it just my eyes or does that rear wing endplate look huge? Im skeptical we'll see a large top 'chord' on the rear wing, DRS is still important, just not as important, I think the short chord will remain but thats just a gut feeling. Front wing will definitely change and I think McLaren will adopt the chin as well. Come on Tuesday it feels like I'm counting down to the launch all over again.

That's my 2 cents.

[Rikhart]

What analyses are you talking about exactly? I´m not sure even team engineers know which exhaust solution is best, wether ramp or no ramp. They just go with what fits their overall philosophy. There are pros and cons to both solutions.

[OO7]

What analyses are you talking about exactly? I´m not sure even team engineers know which exhaust solution is best, wether ramp or no ramp. They just go with what fits their overall philosophy. There are pros and cons to both solutions.

This is what I believe also. When all the 2012 cars have been revealed, we'll see which is considered most favourable.

[Markn93]

This is what I believe also. When all the 2012 cars have been revealed, we'll see which is considered most favourable.

Most favourable yes, but not necessarily the best solution. Everyone else can adopt the RB solution but if Macca is the fastest car then who cares.

[BigCHrome]

Scoopless brake ducts don't bring that big of an improvement because of the gigantic amount of turbulence from the rotating tires.

[Boing 2]

Do all teams use 'blade' wishbone attachments these days?

[chumma]

What analyses are you talking about exactly? I´m not sure even team engineers know which exhaust solution is best, wether ramp or no ramp. They just go with what fits their overall philosophy. There are pros and cons to both solutions.

The McLaren solution seals the sides of the diffuser, but the Red Bull Solution seals the sides of the diffuser and blows the starters hole in the middle of the diffuser. The ramp/tunnel affect gets more air to the diffuser, it was in a Scarbs article along with Gary Anderson maybe? Basically, the Red Bull solution takes McLaren's a step further, I think the trend you will see, is most cars adopt the Red Bull rear end. That is how Red Bull went from seemingly no rake at all, to Running almost 2011 levels of rake after Singapore because they were getting so much air to the diffuser again their rear stability improved ten fold, thats where their late season charge came from.

[FranDaMan]

The '28 was designed in the same wind tunnel as this year's Ferrari?

WAT

It's like the US Air Force building their fighters in MiG's factories

[ApexMouse]

The '28 was designed in the same wind tunnel as this year's Ferrari?

WAT

It's like the US Air Force building their fighters in MiG's factories

In the Luftwaffe's factory.

Edited by ApexMouse, 31 January 2013 - 22:04.

[FSLIV]

I just doesnt feel right without Lewis

OMG so true. Its hard to be excited but I am still a Macca fan.

[FSLIV]

James Allen's technical analysis of the MP4-28.

http://www.jamesalle...of-new-mclaren/

I know Im tardy to the party but wow they went with pull rod front susp.