79 replies to this topic

[Forma1]

Although I don't really expect too much of a turn-around in the pecking order, cos every team is shifting its focus more and more towards next year's car, the new Pirelli rubber can be a slump for a few teams. Although the introduction of the new P Zero has been delayed by one GP, I though it's time to sum things up.

Some notices:
-team: I mean the team which operated the best on the race track, made the best strategies, the best pit stops and could yield its driver a consistent setup.
-car: the car which was overall the best, not always on the top of the time sheet, but the car wich was always there or thereabout independent from weather circuimstances, track layout.
-driver: the pilot who did the most out of his opportunities.

[Boxerevo]

Vettel is arguably the best driver.

Credits where its due and is my personal opinion.

Edited by Boxerevo, 29 May 2013 - 16:57.

[Forma1]

Just to mention: Lewis said recently: "Vettel has got it easy. He has been driving the best car for 4 years."

[mnmracer]

One-liners, the perfect way to show that you have no argument.

Just to mention: Lewis said recently: "Vettel has got it easy. He has been driving the best car for 4 years."

And everything Lewis -who started his career in a championship car- says should be taken as gospel?
Something Lewis said seriously, in response to a joke Vettel made to his team mate.
Something Lewis said following a race in which he was driving the best car to have that day.

Even if you takes Lewis' words as gospel, and choose to ignore other insider's opinions, this thread is about... *drum rolls* "the year so far".

Edited by mnmracer, 29 May 2013 - 17:10.

[Sakae]

Vettel.
Ferrari.
Lotus.

[Vickyy]

Sorry for pointing out, but why Sauber and Mclaren are there in that list while Force india and in fact Toro Rosso did much better job than those of the two.

[noikeee]

best driver - Vettel (though by only a hair over Kimi, pace-wise Fred has been up there as well just has commited uncharacteristic 1 or 2 mistakes)

best car - this one is difficult, I would say the Ferrari although the Red Bull is better than it seems as it's been top 2/3 car every single race, whereas Ferrari for example was oddly a shitbox at Monaco. Lotus are very close to both of them as well, there is very little between the top 3 cars.

got most out of car - Red Bull and by a mile.

[AustinF1]

One-liners, the perfect way to show that you have no argument.


And everything Lewis -who started his career in a championship car- says should be taken as gospel?
Something Lewis said seriously, in response to a joke Vettel made to his team mate.
Something Lewis said following a race in which he was driving the best car to have that day.

Even if you takes Lewis' words as gospel, and choose to ignore other insider's opinions, this thread is about... *drum rolls* "the year so far".

Argument?

LOL.

Overreact much?

[RockyRaccoon68]

Driver: Vettel with Kimi not far behind

Car: Between Lotus, Ferrari and Red Bull. Red Bull much quicker in quali but Red Bull struggled massively in Aus, China and Spain for race pace. Appeared as fast as any in race pace in Malaysia, Bahrain and Monaco though.
Team: Red Bull easily

Edited by RockyRaccoon68, 29 May 2013 - 17:25.

[Diablobb81]

Vettel
Ferrari, but only slightly
Red Bull

Edit : looking at the poll my opinions are very controversial.

Edited by Diablobb81, 29 May 2013 - 17:23.

[rasul]

Best driver: Vettel. I don't see how anyone can argue otherwise. He's been nearly flawless compared to other drivers. Though Kimi has been great as well.
Best car: Ferrari. Had the car that was capable of winning all races bar Monaco. We are not leading in both standings thanks to stupid team mistakes and driver errors.
Best team: I'm not sure. Definitely not Ferrari, so I voted for Red Bull, though they haven't exactly been amazing at their teamwork and team management, and are leading WCC largely thanks to Vettel's consistency.

[SteF1an]

Driver: Vettel with Kimi not far behind

Car: Between Lotus, Ferrari and Red Bull. Red Bull much quicker in quali but Red Bull struggled massively in Aus, China and Spain for race pace. Appeared as fast as any in race pace in Malaysia, Bahrain and Monaco though.
Team: Red Bull easily

This

[P123]

One-liners, the perfect way to show that you have no argument.


And everything Lewis -who started his career in a championship car- says should be taken as gospel?
Something Lewis said seriously, in response to a joke Vettel made to his team mate.
Something Lewis said following a race in which he was driving the best car to have that day.

Even if you takes Lewis' words as gospel, and choose to ignore other insider's opinions, this thread is about... *drum rolls* "the year so far".

We never actually heard him say that. It was attributed to him, but these things tend to be spiced up. I don't think you should be overly-sensitive about what he may have said unless you put complete faith in the author of the article.

[P123]

Driver of the season so far has been Vettel, followed in no particular order by Rosberg/Kimi/Alonso/ di Resta.

The best car is hard to determine- best on tyres have been Lotus and Ferrari, overall best is Red Bull, with Merc as a bit of a qualifying pest to those three. All very small margins though.

Team of the year- Force India.

[Zoetrope]

I think the poll results says it all (as for now). Vettel and Kimi very equal (but voted Vettel) and Red Bull and Ferrari very equal (but voted RBR).

Also very close between RBR and Lotus when it comes to exploiting every point from the car, Lotus screwed up one of Grosjean's qualifying and RBR failed Mark's wheelnut in China, besides almost perfect.

[Nonesuch]

Driver: Vettel with Kimi not far behind
Car: Between Lotus, Ferrari and Red Bull. Red Bull much quicker in quali but Red Bull struggled massively in Aus, China and Spain for race pace. Appeared as fast as any in race pace in Malaysia, Bahrain and Monaco though.
Team: Red Bull easily

Seems like a fair assessment to me.

[bub]

Kimi
E21
Red Bull

[jjcale]

I have to give credit to SV... yes, he has the best car and team but has he extracted the maximum from his package. So much so that its hard to tell where his performance ends and that of the car/team begins.

[gillesthegenius]

Driver : Vettel
Car : F138
Team : RBR

[halifaxf1fan]

Driver: Vettel/Raikkonen

Car: Ferrari

Team: Red Bull Racing

[Forma1]

Interestingly hardly anyone mentions Alonso as the best. Maybe only Kimi and Vettel-fans have voted so far, or we are used to the miracles Fernando did in the last couple of years. Last year he was brutal, I haven't really seen such a competetive drive and performance through the whole year which he showed in a mediocre car. In 2010 he was master as well, in 2011 he had couple of superb races and this year he had flawless races in Australia, Spain and China, but made mistakes in Malaysia and was not completely on the pace in Monaco. People tend to forget very quickly and can focus on mistakes. Time will tell, but I am grateful to get answers to my questions.

[st99]

Best driver: Vettel (Kimi has been brilliant as well, the only race he didn't perform superbly was Malaysia but other than that flawless)
Best car: Ferrari, they should be leading both championships now if they hadn't made mistakes.
Best team: None of the top teams has been flawless so far but between the ones in the poll I'd say Red Bull even if in China they committed too many mistakes.

[rasul]

Interestingly hardly anyone mentions Alonso as the best. Maybe only Kimi and Vettel-fans have voted so far, or we are used to the miracles Fernando did in the last couple of years. Last year he was brutal, I haven't really seen such a competetive drive and performance through the whole year which he showed in a mediocre car. In 2010 he was master as well, in 2011 he had couple of superb races and this year he had flawless races in Australia, Spain and China, but made mistakes in Malaysia and was not completely on the pace in Monaco. People tend to forget very quickly and can focus on mistakes. Time will tell, but I am grateful to get answers to my questions.

You got me all confused. Why should his previous seasons be taken into account to judge his performance this season? Alonso isn't voted as the best driver because so far, he hasn't been the best driver by any stretch of imagination. It's as simple as that, really.

[GiancarloF1]

Vettel is the best driver, while Lotus has the best car.

[Skinnyguy]

1) Vettel
2) Close between Ferrari, RB and Lotus. Undecided.
3) Red Bull.

[Lights]

To echo what has been said by plenty here, I have to conclude that Vettel has been the best driver so far this year. He simply hasn't done much wrong, even so that he himself has to point out he should've won Monaco. On the other hand, he has the best team behind him in terms of operations, reliability, strategy, and generally staying out of trouble. Also the confidence he'll always have a car that'll be 'up there' helps, plus having a teammate on the brink of retirement driven by a decrease in motivation and internal conflicts. All these things do help, but on paper Vettel has been the best driver so far because his nearest challengers Fernando and Kimi each had their moments in which they lost points/lost out to their teammate because of their own mistakes. Still close though and can easily change.

[Kingshark]

Driver: Sebastian Vettel

Car: Lotus E21

Team: Red Bull

[kenkip]

To be perfectly honest,I cant choose between Kimi and Vettel,I guess I will choose Seb because I am a fan and also he is leading the championship but it is very close with Kimi they have both been supreme.
Car?I think so far the Ferrari seems the most balanced in all races so I will go with that.
Team?i will also go with Ferrari,they have made great strategy calls this season and coupled with their starts and Fred's genius it will be hard to write them off.

Quick question,is this the season Seb wins the WDC without the best car?

[Zava]

Just to mention: Lewis said recently: "Vettel has got it easy. He has been driving the best car for 4 years."

Interestingly hardly anyone mentions Alonso as the best. Maybe only Kimi and Vettel-fans have voted so far, or we are used to the miracles Fernando did in the last couple of years. Last year he was brutal, I haven't really seen such a competetive drive and performance through the whole year which he showed in a mediocre car. In 2010 he was master as well, in 2011 he had couple of superb races and this year he had flawless races in Australia, Spain and China, but made mistakes in Malaysia and was not completely on the pace in Monaco. People tend to forget very quickly and can focus on mistakes. Time will tell, but I am grateful to get answers to my questions.

I like it when the topic opener at a poll like this remains totally unbiased in the topic, so kudos not exactly the result you wanted to see, I guess?

anyway, my votes:
Vettel - with Kimi as a close second, would've been a damn hard choice without Kimi's malaysian flop...
F138 - so far the best combination of tyre deg, race pace, and quali, though the potential is wasted so far (mostly) by operational blunders.
red bull - comfortably in the lead of both championship when they shouldn't even lead.

[Afterburner]

In terms of performance, Vettel has been looking more and more like a four-time champion with each passing race, in my opinion--but that's not to belittle Raikkonen's efforts at all, as it seems he's clearly driving at his peak and would likely be right where Vettel is now if he were behind the wheel of the F138 or RB9. Alonso has already made more mistakes than Vettel this year--even if only one, it's critical because it was a race-ending error--and Hamilton has been put in the shade by his teammate more than the other three. If they all continue to drive as they are now, I think Vettel will likely be WDC come season's end; a 20+ point margin after six races in what is at worst an equal or slightly worse car compared to that of his rivals and at best a car only marginally better than theirs (my words, not gospel) is nothing to sneeze at. Best drives this year for me go to Vettel, Alonso, and Rosberg, for Bahrain, Spain, and Monaco, respectively.

Despite its off-day in Monaco and its average performances in Malaysia and Australia, I think the F138 has been the car to have so far this year. It looks to have no apparent weaknesses bar freak accidents, and has looked unstoppable when running properly. If it weren't for his DRS failure in Bahrain and his mistake in Malaysia, Alonso would probably be leading the championship right now, I think. Behind the F138, I think the RB9 is probably the next best car, either tied with or closely followed by the E21. Following those two are the MP4-28 and the W04, with very different problems that I think happen to set them back about the same amount. The F138 has the most potential to be victorious of these, though, I think.

Oddly enough, when I think about which team's drivers have gotten the most from their car so far, I think the honors have to go to Red Bull and Mercedes. I don't think the RB7 is better than the F138--it's leading the constructors' championship through brilliant driving and strategy more than out-and-out performance. Considering the reliability and tyre issues they've suffered this year, I also think the Mercedes team has gotten a great deal more out of their car than they probably bargained for; their drivers have been stellar so far and I struggle to recall any notable mistakes or weak performances from either of them given the problems they've been facing (correct me if I'm wrong, if you would please).

All my opinion, of course. Looking forward to seeing how this one turns out.

[Sin]

dude you forgot Force India in the 3rd vote...... I would have voted for them

[Longtimefan]

lol @ person who voted Grosjean

[Cavani]

it is got to be vettel and redbull , they just don't seem to be making the slightest of mistakes

[Jimisgod]

1. Kimi

2. RBR

3. Lotus

[Winter98]

Best Driver: Vettel

Best Car: Ferrari

Getting the most: Lotus

[Otaku]

Poll doesn't say "Best car", it says "Most consistent car" which is not the same.

[Forma1]

I like it when the topic opener at a poll like this remains totally unbiased in the topic, so kudos not exactly the result you wanted to see, I guess?

anyway, my votes:
Vettel - with Kimi as a close second, would've been a damn hard choice without Kimi's malaysian flop...
F138 - so far the best combination of tyre deg, race pace, and quali, though the potential is wasted so far (mostly) by operational blunders.
red bull - comfortably in the lead of both championship when they shouldn't even lead.

No, that's only my opinion. I wanted to start the poll to see how people of this forum think bout it. I totally accept it. I just wonder people get used to Alonso's flawless drive and some mistakes can change everything.

[joshb]

Vettel best driver... the only man to be 6-0 up Qualy and race vs his teammate
Were it not for a ridiculous 4/10 in Malaysia, he'd be 2 or 3 points clear of any other driver in the magazine rankings this year (not that it's the gospel- merely a guide)

Notable mentions to Kimi, Bianchi and dare I say it, di Resta. both Mercedes drivers have started well too. Hulkenberg has done OK is a slow car too

Best car for me is a tough call. The Merc is the best in qualy, the Red Bull best in the wet/damp, the Ferrari best in a race
I'd love to say it isn't the Red Bull to big Seb up but that is in a group of 3 (along with Ferrari/Lotus) with the MErcs just behind overall

Best team has probably been Red Bull- only 1 shocking run on Webber's car in China. No-one has been error free or unreliability free so I'd just about say Red Bull

[mnmracer]

Poll doesn't say "Best car", it says "Most consistent car" which is not the same.

Well, in that case it would probably be either Marussia or Caterham, who have been extremely consistent.

[Lelouch]

Driver:I voted for Vettel closely followed by Kimi. Rosberg, Hamilton, Alonso and Di Resta follow in no particular order.

Car: In terms of consistency and reliability it has to be RB9, at least in the hands of Vettel it's always up there. If it was fastest I would say Ferrari (race) and Best Ferrari/Lotus.

Team: Again RBR. Tombazis himself assessed Ferrari's start as a 6/10. Mercedes still don't know their car 100% and at Lotus Grosjean is part of the team.
I would have voted FI too if it was in the choices.

Edited by Lelouch, 30 May 2013 - 08:53.

[Kelateboy]

Best driver to date - Sebastian Vettel, followed by Raikkonen and Alonso.

Best car - F138.

Got most out of car - Red Bull by a country mile.

[Oho]

While I see how the selection of best driver only influences the results I still think these results are odd, I mean if there was single run away leader it would be fine but given how Vettel and Räikkönen are rated so close I really don't think the poll does justice to Alonso who for the most has performed impeccably just as the two leaders.

[Sakae]

I wish someone could explain to me why they think RB got more out of their car than Lotus, a team which allegedly is in massive financial debt, last year were for all practical purposes almost nowhere, and now, ignore accidents, they are situated at sharp end of the stick. What else you guys want? This is tremendous, methinks. (I voted for them).

[TheThirdTenor1]

Vettel

RB9

Red Bull

[Jovanotti]

I wish someone could explain to me why they think RB got more out of their car than Lotus, a team which allegedly is in massive financial debt, last year were for all practical purposes almost nowhere, and now, ignore accidents, they are situated at sharp end of the stick. What else you guys want? This is tremendous, methinks. (I voted for them).

I guess as it's a question how the whole team performed, Lotus lacks a reliable second driver and competitive operations at times, i.e. pit stops. But yeah, they're doing a fantastic job so far.

[EthanM]

I wish someone could explain to me why they think RB got more out of their car than Lotus, a team which allegedly is in massive financial debt, last year were for all practical purposes almost nowhere, and now, ignore accidents, they are situated at sharp end of the stick. What else you guys want? This is tremendous, methinks. (I voted for them).

getting more out of your car generally means operationally, ie performing near the maximum the car can deliver, not how well designed the car is.

For example, McLaren in 2012 didnt get much out of their car, Red Bull and Ferrari got a lot more out of theirs

[Kelateboy]

No, that's only my opinion. I wanted to start the poll to see how people of this forum think bout it. I totally accept it. I just wonder people get used to Alonso's flawless drive and some mistakes can change everything.

There are still people who voted for Alonso as the best driver to-date despite the fact that he has had 3 miserable races in Malaysia, Bahrain and Monaco. Granted he also has had 3 flawless races in Australia, China and Spain, but personally, I think Vettel and Raikkonen have been much better and consistent drivers than Alonso so far this year.

[Sakae]

getting more out of your car generally means operationally, ie performing near the maximum the car can deliver, not how well designed the car is.

For example, McLaren in 2012 didnt get much out of their car, Red Bull and Ferrari got a lot more out of theirs

...we do not know where "maximum" for Lotus is. Scope of our knowledge is restrained by tire-factor, and as many around here quite often say, since it's for all the same (something I do not necessarily agree with), Lotus is then performing admirably. Could they go faster? I don't know, but I gave them benefit of doubt. RBR to me is disappointment to be rated highest in 3rd category (as per OT).

[Shiroo]

wouldnt vote Lotus in 3rd, cause they have Grosjean.

[mtojay]

No, that's only my opinion. I wanted to start the poll to see how people of this forum think bout it. I totally accept it. I just wonder people get used to Alonso's flawless drive and some mistakes can change everything.

last year he was nearly flawless. but this year he isnt. he made mistakes costing him valuable points. other drivers were overall more consistent this year (vettel raikonnen). thats why they are, rightfully, voted better as alonso so far this season.
you made the poll, and you wrote "of the year so far", so it surprises me that you are the one talkin about his performances last year. they dont need to be considered in this poll. we dont forgot what he did, but it doesnt matter here.