68 replies to this topic

[Allen Brown]

Does anyone know if this museum is still open?

The last information I have is 1996, when there were five 3-litre F1 cars in the museum: the BRM P109 (a H16 show car built for EXPO 67), a second Cosworth F1 car (built from parts - the original is at Donington), PRM B83 8301 (the first H16), March 701/2 and Williams FW07/4.

Can anyone update me? I have been told the Williams was sold a few years ago.

Thanks

Allen

[Gerr]

Have you tried the website?
http://www.yorkwa.co...useum/index.htm

[Allen Brown]

Gerr

Thanks. Why didn't I think of using the web?

Allen

[Phil Rainford]

Some shots taken in 1992

Came across the Museum completely by accident on a road trip.

My wife and sister did not seem to share my enthusiasm for such a " find " !!


[IMG]http://img260.images...2/img080xb8.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://img252.images...3/img081zd0.jpg[/IMG]

[Allen Brown]

Originally posted by Phil Rainford

A 1967 Indy Vollstedt! Not exactly what you'd expect to find in Western Australia.

THanks for the pictures Phil.

Allen

[Ray Bell]

Is that Janey's E-type or has another one sneaked into the country?

Agreed, Allen, that is a surprise find... wonder what other things will show up in Phil's photos...

Phil, was there any detail about history on that Healey?

[Bondy]

There was an ex Jarier March 731 (well it looked like a 731) at the Holden Museum at Echuca back in 2003. The car was in as raced conditioned, looked like it need a good clean ;). I was at the Briggs Museum in 2004, great place.

[Phil Rainford]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
Is that Janey's E-type or has another one sneaked into the country?

Agreed, Allen, that is a surprise find... wonder what other things will show up in Phil's photos...

Phil, was there any detail about history on that Healey?

Ray

The information sheet I took away from the Museum describes it as "Austin Healey 3000 Liege -Rome - Liege "

I attach a postcard from the Museum:

The two silver cars in the foreground and background look worthy of further inspection.

The Stratos of course needs no introduction.

[IMG]http://img373.images...9/img085ss8.jpg[/IMG]

[Vitesse2]

Well, unless my eyes deceive me the one at the back is Piero Taruffi's TARF-Gilera and the one at the front is the F1 Cosworth 4WD.

[Allen Brown]

It is indeed the other 4WD Cosworth.

But what of this Jarier March 731? Any pictures? Any further clues?

Allen

[Doug Nye]

I think you will find that the BRM H16s have a new owner...back here in the old country...

DCN

[David McKinney]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
Is that Janey's E-type or has another one sneaked into the country?

The Jane Lightweight E-type was indeed in the York Motor Museum, but I believe it may now be in the Land of the Rising Sun

[Bondy]

Originally posted by Allen Brown
It is indeed the other 4WD Cosworth.

But what of this Jarier March 731? Any pictures? Any further clues?

Allen

The March was in STP colours, i believe it may have been owned by Ray Gibbs. I unfortunately never had a camera on me when i saw it. I think there was a time when a F5000 March was there as well.....

[Vitesse2]

Originally posted by Allen Brown
It is indeed the other 4WD Cosworth.

Allen

Blimey! All these years and I thought they'd only built one ....

[Terry Walker]

Peter Briggs' collection is so extensive that he has two Museums - the other is the Fremantle Motor Museum. I was last there in April 2005, and these are some of the cars to be seen:

[Twin Window]

Originally posted by Vitesse2

Blimey! All these years and I thought they'd only built one ....

Me too!

[Terry Walker]

I have this vague idea that two tubs were built, one car was completed and tested and proved the four-wheel-drive theory wrong, so the second car was never completed. I have a memory of seeing a Cosworth car, incomplete, with an explanatory note to that effect. Whether it was at Donington or York I can't recall. The Cosworth website was notably unhelpful, and Georgano no help either.

[Allen Brown]

When Tom Wheatcroft bought the F1 project, he acquired enough bits to start building a second car. These were later sold to Peter Briggs. The car was completed in the UK and shipped to Australia where it has been in Peter's museum ever since.

I had no idea about this either until talking to Peter in 1996.

Allen

[bradbury west]

Originally posted by Vitesse2
Well, unless my eyes deceive me the one at the back is Piero Taruffi's TARF-Gilera and the one at the front is the F1 Cosworth 4WD.

Perhaps the Taruffi car is TARF II, from which the enlarged 1720cc Maserati engine and box were removed in Aus to go into a 4CLT/48, being replaced by a road Dino engine and Rover 2000 box to make it mobile for demonstrations.. quod vide DSJ, Letter to Readers, page 1013, MS October 1988, which I chanced upon whilst sorting out boxes of the magazines.

Roger Lund.

[Ray Bell]

Really?

When I saw it in Allan Hamilton's personal 'museum' several years ago it still had the Maserati engine...

[Terry Walker]

The TARF is now in the Fremantle Motor Museum. Peter Briggs and his two curators move cars between the two museums from time to time to freshen up exhibits. I don't know what's under the bonnet. Both Museums have websites.

[Terry Walker]

Just checked the Museum website. The car has the Maserati engine.

[MattFoster]

I have to go check this place out!

[Allen Brown]

And you then have to post a list of every car you see - with photographs!



Allen

[Peter Morley]

Originally posted by Doug Nye
I think you will find that the BRM H16s have a new owner...back here in the old country...

DCN

Amazing co-incidence I was just looking up the H-16s when I find there is a recent thread that mentions them.

Did the new UK owner buy both P109 & the P83 - the museum websites mention P109 but not P83.
I don't suppose we are entitled to know who the lucky new owner is?
Any connection with the Lotus 43 - I gather the current owner of the US GP winner found a show engine in Australia, was that with these cars?

Anyway my reason for looking up the H-16s was to try to identify which car this old Spanish Scalextric BRM is meant to be - it is due to be re-released later this year and the Nuremberg toyfair mock-up says that it is a P261 which is clearly wrong since that only had half as many cylinders!



The nose has top radiator exit ducts like the P83, but the rear has an enclosed engine which is wrong (more like P261), is it just a bad P83 or something else?

[David Shaw]

To me it is a bad P83, and although I seem to recall the engine being enclosed on the P83 at certain places (Monza?) I doubt it would also enclose the transmission such as on the P261.

[soubriquet]

For Lancia enthusiasts, there is an exquisite Lambda at York.

http://www.yorkwa.com.au/Motor.Museum/

There is also a Stratos at Fremantle. It is painted in Alitalia colours, and I believe it to be an ex-works car.

[Terry Walker]

I went down to the Fremantle offshoot of the York Motor Museum today, and took a few pics of racing related exhibits:

Lancia Stratos



Midget speedcar raced by Freddy Agabashian



Aussie Challenge water speed record boat



Jaguar XK100 4-cylinder engine



Lots more...and I haven't driven up to York yet.

[Terry Walker]

More at the Museum: Cockpit of the Tarf:



Hesketh motorcycle engine



Maybach Corvette



Indy 500 Pinball Machine (and you can play it)



1923 Aston Martin with Aust GP history



Rocket powered Kart



Alan Jones' Williams (one of them) Chassis plate reads "Williams Grand Prix Engineering Limited. Chassis No FW07/04"

[soubriquet]

Thanks Terry. These exhibits were all at York in the earlier incarnation. Your photos have invoked some very mixed fellings.

[Macca]

Fellings? Wood we be getting back onto trees, at all?

The blue thing looks like Aussie Invader 2, an LSR car that was rendered obsolete by Thrust SSC.

And BRM H16s started out with full bodywork (and still occasionally ran with it in late 1966 IIRC) :
http://www.bgw.pwp.b...es/page_34.html

Paul M

[Allen Brown]

Originally posted by Terry Walker
More at the Museum:
Alan Jones' Williams (one of them) Chassis plate reads "Williams Grand Prix Engineering Limited. Chassis No FW07/04"

Aha! So it is still in Australia!

Allen

[soubriquet]

Originally posted by Macca
Fellings? Wood we be getting back onto trees, at all?

Paul M

Oops, a typo. My ex-wife never made any mistakes in her life, other than marrying me. You'd make a good couple.

[Terry Walker]

The York museum was suffering severe overcrowding, so now there's two museums. A few more odds and sods I took before my camera battery went flat. (I must remember to charge the thing before I go out...)

Chassis plate of Williams.



Speedway Jawa

[Allen Brown]

This is the original FW07/4. Williams GPE later forgot that they'd sold it off and sold it off again. The second car they sold is actually a FW07B that had been 'restored' back to 1979 spec to act as a show car as they'd sold all their 1979 cars. Some time later they'd forgotten that they'd done this and sold it as FW07/4. A genuine mistake, I reckon, but we now have two FW07/4s and one less FW07B than we should have.

Allen

[Terry Walker]

While I was really only looking at the racing cars, I couldn't resist this V12 Lagonda, engine design by WO Bentley. When I was a pimply youth reading Saint stories and wishing I was a debonair and rich adventurer, this is pretty much what I imagined his Hirondel looked like. I wonder if this make was what Charteris had in mind, as he had the Hirondel factory located in Staines.

[D-Type]

'Hirondelle' is French for 'Swallow' isn't it? So Charteris may have meant an SS.

But I have to agree with you - the Lagonda is the type of car you could paint red and white and put the original Saint into, not something as plebian as a Volvo or an XJS. OK, I know a Jaguar is the successor to the SS but it's far more of a production car than the coachbuilt SS was.

On a more serious note, how did a specialist record breaker like the Tarf end up in Australia? I would have thought a Bologna, Modena, Turin or Milan museum would have been far more likely. The same question applies to some of the other exhibits that have no obvious Australian connection.

Edited by D-Type, 19 July 2013 - 08:22.

[Terry Walker]

Briggsy is an ex racing driver and lifelong passionate car nut, and his interest in cars is not confined to Aussie connections. He has, for example, an ancient Bedelia cycle car with wire and bobbin steering. Plus sports cars, mini cars, touring cars, a de dion trike, a blower Bentley . . . if he likes it, and he wants it, and he can afford it, he's apt to buy it. He's done the London to Brighton a few times, various historic rallies, and raced some of the race cars in the collection. He even has a Tatra.

[Terry Walker]

Just an afterthought. Next week I'll slip up to York with my camera (fully charged) and see what's there. A good excuse to take the Silver Shadow for a walk in the country, although at 17 mpg it hurts, it hurts.

Anyway, keep your eye on this thread for further news.

[Dutchy]

The Lagonda isn't a V12 but an LG45. The V12 is distinguished by two projections in the bodywork just above the front dumbirons.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by D-Type
'Hirondelle' is French for 'Swallow' isn't it? So Charteris may have meant an SS.

But I have to agree with you - the Lagonda is the type of car you could paint red and white and put the original Saint into, not something as plebian as a Volvo or an XJS. OK, I know a Jaguar is the successor to the SS but it's far more of a production car than the coachbuilt SS was.

On a more serious note, how did a specialist record breaker like the Tarf end up in Australia? I would have thought a Bologna, Modena, Turin or Milan museum would have been far more likely. The same question applies to some of the other exhibits that have no obvious australian connection.

I wouldn't hesitate to say that the difference between coachbuilding for the SS and stamp-and-spot-weld for the Jaguar is more an issue of changing times than change of lineage...

The TARF... when it was at Allan Hamilton's I'm sure he told me that it belonged to someone else, that he was just storing it. So I'd guess it got to Australia in the late sixties or very early seventies at the latest and it's just moved around from there.

[Terry Walker]

Ah, the Lagonda has the Meadows engine rather than Bentley's V12 masterpiece. In its immediate neighbourhood were other Bentley related vehicles:



Left to right: Bentley Mk 6 woodie wagon, Bentley 4 1/2 litre supercharged, Derby Bentley 4 1/4, and the Lagonda. Peter also has a very rakish Derby 4 1/4 litre two-seater with coachwork in the Franay mould. It wasn't at Fremantle, it may be at home in the Briggs garage, as it gets about a lot.

[275 GTB-4]

A friend of mine was telling me how his father bought a pre-war Lagonda Rapide into South Australia because he wanted something special and powerful.....money wasn't a problem....later when it threw a rod....he took it to the local dump

[Terry Walker]

I had to do some work on these pics as they were very dark, but they are of the Napier L48 Samson. This car has appeared in the UK, Goodwood I think:

[f1steveuk]

Originally posted by Allen Brown
When Tom Wheatcroft bought the F1 project, he acquired enough bits to start building a second car. These were later sold to Peter Briggs. The car was completed in the UK and shipped to Australia where it has been in Peter's museum ever since.

I had no idea about this either until talking to Peter in 1996.

Allen

I take it minus the magnesium block?

[Terry Walker]

I've bumped this because I've just been to York to have a look, and I can answer the question in the previous post. The Cosworth FWD is an empty rolling chassis.



Here's a surprising find:



Raced by Jim Clark in 1968, says the placard. It's a Vollstedt Ford Indy car, built in 1968, and raced that year in the Rex Mays 300 in Los Angeles. Jim dnf'd when the engine blew. The following year it placed 9th at Indy in the hands of Larry Dickson.

The engine is a 2.6 litre injected quad cam Ford modified by A J Foyt - his name is cast into the cam covers.

Propped up against the wall is this tub:



Looks like a turbo era F1 tub to me, with the driver well forward and a big fuel tank behind the seat. There's no obvious ID on the tub, and no placard explaining it. An anyone identify?

Hanging on the wall is this huge canvas poster:



And I personally covet this racing programme, half concealed: the 1940 Pingelly meeting. Rare as rocking horse manure.



It must be said that the pick of the collection, racing-wise, is in Fremantle now. Also, the collection is looking a touch frowsty, with the explanatory leaflets brown and curling. Due for a refresh, I think.

[bradbury west]

Terry, the "dy" on the fuel tank may refer to Candy, domestic appliance mfrs, sponsorship.

Roger Lund.

[275 GTB-4]

Originally posted by bradbury west
Terry, the "dy" on the fuel tank may refer to Candy, domestic appliance mfrs, sponsorship.

Roger Lund.

I think you are right Brad.....Candy had the short tail on the Y (otherwise, I suppose Indy is a possibility)....maybe a tub left behind by Bruno Giacomelli???

[Catalina Park]

I think the tub looks like a bit like a Lotus 79 so it must be a Tyrrell 009.

[xbgs351]

Does it say Candy on the side of the tub?