1874 replies to this topic

[Macca]

For those who have any remaining interest in on-screen fictional motor-racing...............on ITV4 this afternoon is the episode of 'The Saint' from 1964, featuring footage of the British GP and some scenes shot in and around Brands Hatch, plus two FJ Coopers faked up as a Lotus 33 and a BRM P261.

Plus, of course, a young Kate O'Mara pouting and smouldering as an Italian driver (nothing at all like Giovanna Amati!).


Paul M

[Isetta]

For those who have any remaining interest in on-screen fictional motor-racing...............on ITV4 this afternoon is the episode of 'The Saint' from 1964, featuring footage of the British GP and some scenes shot in and around Brands Hatch, plus two FJ Coopers faked up as a Lotus 33 and a BRM P261.

Plus, of course, a young Kate O'Mara pouting and smouldering as an Italian driver (nothing at all like Giovanna Amati!).


Paul M

Good call, thanks, watching it now.

Pedant warning! The Ford Zephyr/Zodiac shown was D registered - 1966 n'est pa?

[Macca]

In post #802 from nearly two years ago, R.W.Mckenzie spotted the shot from the 'Monaco GP' of Stoddard passing Sarti which was supposed to be the Casino Square-Mirabeau section wasn't actually filmed there............ a crack team of TNFers (no Carruthers, I said a CRACK team....) who went to the HMGP a couple of years ago looked around for the location, without success.

I recently asked another contact who lives in Monaco if he could help, and after looking around himself and also asking some friends who know what changes have been made in the principality since 1966, another blank was drawn.

So I reckoned that the person who suggested it wasn't necessarily Monaco might be right. The only clue is the name on one of the shopfronts visible, 'Marquise de Sevigny', a firm in Paris which still makes luxury chocolates today, so I looked at their website with a view to asking them if they'd had a shop in Monaco or somewhere nearby in 1966. Unfortunately they changed ownership in 1970 and again in 1973, so addresses of old shops were probably lost and it didn't seem worth trying to contact them.

Then as I looked at their history, I saw they were founded in the town of Royat, which rang a bell - it's the small town between the city of Clermont-Ferrand and the Charade circuit, where I'd found the garage and street locations for the shots of the Ferraris being used for a fashion shoot and then driven to the circuit. So I looked at Royat (which is on Google Street View) and found the Boulevard Vazquez -

The building at the far end is now painted white, but there has been little change otherwise:





The Marquise de Sevigny shop is still there:



And there is some writing in a shop window in 1966 which I couldn't quite read, but it says 'Aux Douceurs' and the shop is also still there:




And here is an aerial view:


Happy Christmas, everyone!
Paul M

[Tim Murray]

Nice work, Paul. It's amazing that so much of it has hardly changed after 40+ years. Even the pedestrian crossing is still in the same place.

[Barry Boor]

Paul, if anyone from Scotland Yard ever reads this you will be offered a senior investigating officer position with the Met immediately, I think.

An amazing bit of detection. Well done!

[Breadmaster]

Well played sir!

[Arjan de Roos]

The Marquise de Sevigny shop is still there:

Paul M

But they sold a part of it to the drugstore that was there too in the days. Even the green cross is around there. Great find.

Merry X-mas too Paul!

[B Squared]

Amazing detective work Fun topic to follow. Merry Christmas.

Brian

[vashlin]

Well done, sir!

Great job of detective work indeed.

As one who does research as part of the job, I know the heady feeling when you solve something difficult. That EUREKA! moment.

Happy holidays.

Lin

[Michael Ferner]

Cor! Excellent job, Mr. Macca! Brilliant!! Amazing!!!

[Kingsleyrob]

Bravo Hercule!

You can allow yourself a festive smile of smug satisfaction.

Happy Christmas Paul.

Rob

[Macca]

Merci, mes braves - the little grey cells have been working overtime......

Now I think this is the only unsolved one - Nino and Lisa are wearing the same clothes as in the nightclub where they meet (which I am not going to look for!



A beach somewhere, but with a stony shore - maybe a lake rather than the Med?

Paul M

[Gary C]

Lake Como??

[Macca]

In the words of the immortal Jean-Pierre Sarti, "It's a big lake"..........

Paul M

[Barry Boor]

I was about to type Como when I saw Gary already had.

How about Lake Como?

[TonyK]

A beach somewhere, but with a stony shore - maybe a lake rather than the Med?

Paul M

Hello folks,

This is a thoroughly entertaining thread with an amazing amount of background research and knowledge.

A possible candidate for the location of the 'beach scene' is this location to the south-west of Bellagio on Lake Como.
Using the large villa and two boatsheds in the background as reference points, and the shape of the bay, this location seems to fit.
The shot would have been taken from the beach in the bottom left of the Google map aerial image (unfortunately in low resolution), looking towards the right as the background.

...or maybe it's somewhere completely different!

Regards,
Tony

[R.W. Mackenzie]

Well done Macca! Unf***ing believable!

When I pointed out my belief that this shot was not the part of the GP circuit I really thought it was just another street in the principality used because they didn't have access to the circuit when they needed it. I never imagined that it wasn't even close to Monaco.

I agree with the above replies.

Hercule Poirot, Columbo and Holmes have nothing on you!

Bob Mackenzie

[Macca]

Hello folks,

This is a thoroughly entertaining thread with an amazing amount of background research and knowledge.

A possible candidate for the location of the 'beach scene' is this location to the south-west of Bellagio on Lake Como.
Using the large villa and two boatsheds in the background as reference points, and the shape of the bay, this location seems to fit.
The shot would have been taken from the beach in the bottom left of the Google map aerial image (unfortunately in low resolution), looking towards the right as the background.

...or maybe it's somewhere completely different!

Regards,
Tony

Damn - I remember looking at that part of Lake Como and didn't spot it! You are right, I'm sure - the big house in the left of the Nino/Lisa pic looks like Villa Melzi, and here are the buildings visible in the right background:



So that's all the locations, apart from the nightclub which is probably in Bellagio too............oh, and the viewpoint with the telescope in the Puy Du Dome where Sarti goes with Louise..............and the road where Aron drives Pat too fast..................

Paul M

[racingreen]

Hello Boys!

More nonsense, trivia facts concerning Grand Prix.... has anyone ever noticed the scan around the homage to Roger Stoddard room, when Scott returns home, shows a picture of Roger (actually ex motor cycle racer H.L. Williams) in an Emeryson 500 F3 car? I noticed this because it is the very Emeryson (chassis 007) that was my first racing car (in '98), ex Duncan Rabagliati.

On another related topic, regarding the division of F1 personalities between Frankenheimer's Grand Prix and Mcqueen/Sturgess's Day of the Champion; does anyone know if filming for Day of the Champion actually commenced? I understand the film company had brought several single seaters, but had they started filming? I ask this because I have pictures of Sir Stirling driving one of my cars (Cooper F2/2/64) at Silverstone in '66, with movie cameras fitted all over both this car and its sister Normand Racing car F2/1/64 with Mike Beckwith driving that car. The cars circulated together with Stirling finally taking a mocked checquered flag!

Best,

David Woodhouse.

[Radoye]

Damn - I remember looking at that part of Lake Como and didn't spot it! You are right, I'm sure - the big house in the left of the Nino/Lisa pic looks like Villa Melzi, and here are the buildings visible in the right background:

Yeah that's it - see below:
http://www.panoramio.../photo/22040645

Edited by Radoye, 24 December 2009 - 03:06.

[Macca]

On another related topic, regarding the division of F1 personalities between Frankenheimer's Grand Prix and Mcqueen/Sturgess's Day of the Champion; does anyone know if filming for Day of the Champion actually commenced? I understand the film company had brought several single seaters, but had they started filming? I ask this because I have pictures of Sir Stirling driving one of my cars (Cooper F2/2/64) at Silverstone in '66, with movie cameras fitted all over both this car and its sister Normand Racing car F2/1/64 with Mike Beckwith driving that car. The cars circulated together with Stirling finally taking a mocked checquered flag!

Somewhere earlier on this thread is this ad for some of the cars that were to have been used in the McQueen film:


Also see post #1045 above, where an F2 Cooper can be seen in filming at Clermont-Ferrand.

In the book "A French Kiss with Death", McQueen's producer is quoted about Day of the Champion: "We'd shot at Brands Hatch and several other tracks with cameras and a double and cars. John Whitmore had driven a Lola with cameras mounted on the front to get carmounted footage."

And the crew and cars were on the way to the 'Ring when Jack Warner cancelled the film because McQueen was still tied up with the over-running shooting of 'The Sand Pebbles' in Taiwan, and Frankenheimer shot 27 reels of film there later which he had to hand over to Warners because they'd signed an exclusive contract with the ADAC - I don't know the dates though.

I'd love to see your pictures, David...........

Paul M

[R.W. Mackenzie]

Not too long ago I read that Frankenheimer did a fair bit of filming at the 'Ring. But because of the contract commitments that had been made by the circuits and film companies he ended up having to turn his footage over to the Sturges group. Anyone know anything about that and does the footage still exist?

Bob Mackenzie

[R.W. Mackenzie]

Oops! Gues i should have read the previous post first. How embarassing!

Bob Mackenzie

[R.W. Mackenzie]

It's Christmas Eve and I'm on my third glass of wine. That's my excuse!

Bob Mackenzie

[Macca]

Nothing to do with the previous posts, but on this bit of Super8 footage is a little bit of the filming at Clermont-Ferrand, near the end at about 6.20

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

Paul M

Edited by Macca, 24 December 2009 - 20:20.

[R.W. Mackenzie]

Oh yes, Merry Christmas everyone!

Bob Mackenzie

[Macca]

The 'Popular Mechanics' magazine article on the filming has been posted before, and I put up a link recently to Google Books' copy of the 'Life' article, but there is also now a 'Popular Science' article from 1966 available, with more photos, etc. , HERE

Paul M

[Macca]

"When you said you would be taping my performance, John........."

Bob Turner in the part-genuine BRM P2613 with fake side intakes/centre exhausts, at Clermont-Ferrand.

I've noticed some of my pictures in earlier posts have disappeared thanks to Imageshack; so, as we can now edit our old posts, I've reposted them so that if anyone really wants to read it from the beginning (what else is there to do when you're snowed in?), they can......

Paul M

[URY914]

I found this short film about the making of the movie "Ice Station Zebra" and it has some "Grand Prix" footage in it.

Have a look....

http://www.tcm.com/m....jsp?cid=226078

[Théodore33]

In post #802 from nearly two years ago, R.W.Mckenzie spotted the shot from the 'Monaco GP' of Stoddard passing Sarti which was supposed to be the Casino Square-Mirabeau section wasn't actually filmed there............ a crack team of TNFers (no Carruthers, I said a CRACK team....) who went to the HMGP a couple of years ago looked around for the location, without success.

I recently asked another contact who lives in Monaco if he could help, and after looking around himself and also asking some friends who know what changes have been made in the principality since 1966, another blank was drawn.

So I reckoned that the person who suggested it wasn't necessarily Monaco might be right. The only clue is the name on one of the shopfronts visible, 'Marquise de Sevigny', a firm in Paris which still makes luxury chocolates today, so I looked at their website with a view to asking them if they'd had a shop in Monaco or somewhere nearby in 1966. Unfortunately they changed ownership in 1970 and again in 1973, so addresses of old shops were probably lost and it didn't seem worth trying to contact them.

Then as I looked at their history, I saw they were founded in the town of Royat, which rang a bell - it's the small town between the city of Clermont-Ferrand and the Charade circuit, where I'd found the garage and street locations for the shots of the Ferraris being used for a fashion shoot and then driven to the circuit. So I looked at Royat (which is on Google Street View) and found the Boulevard Vazquez -

The building at the far end is now painted white, but there has been little change otherwise:





The Marquise de Sevigny shop is still there:



And there is some writing in a shop window in 1966 which I couldn't quite read, but it says 'Aux Douceurs' and the shop is also still there:




And here is an aerial view:


Happy Christmas, everyone!
Paul M

Really great Job

[Macca]

Thanks!

That TCM trailer about John M Stevens is brilliant - he deserves far more credit than the industry gives him, because he invented much of what we take for granted now.

I noticed a couple of things in the 'Grand Prix' bits - for instance, we know footage was shot at Watkins Glen that didn't appear in the film due to time constraints on editing before the relase date of 21st Dec 1966, and this high shot looks like the first turn there:



Paul M

[Macca]

A few pages back I posted a scan from Motor Sport of Garner with Jack Brabham, said to have been from Watkins Glen in 1967 but actually from 1966 since Jack is in a BT19 or 20. In one photo he is wearing an early form of 'helmetcam':



This grab is from early in the linked trailer about John Stevens, and appears to be going through the Loop/Chute corner at Watkins Glen - and you can see the Repco-Brabham badge on the steering-wheel and that Jack is still bare-handed and wearing the blue jacket:



Paul M

[racingreen]

Somewhere earlier on this thread is this ad for some of the cars that were to have been used in the McQueen film:


Also see post #1045 above, where an F2 Cooper can be seen in filming at Clermont-Ferrand.

In the book "A French Kiss with Death", McQueen's producer is quoted about Day of the Champion: "We'd shot at Brands Hatch and several other tracks with cameras and a double and cars. John Whitmore had driven a Lola with cameras mounted on the front to get carmounted footage."

And the crew and cars were on the way to the 'Ring when Jack Warner cancelled the film because McQueen was still tied up with the over-running shooting of 'The Sand Pebbles' in Taiwan, and Frankenheimer shot 27 reels of film there later which he had to hand over to Warners because they'd signed an exclusive contract with the ADAC - I don't know the dates though.

I'd love to see your pictures, David...........

Paul M

Paul,

I have at last posted my pictures under a new topic ; " Stirling Moss, Silverstone 1966".

[Macca]

Thanks to those nice people at Google Streetview, here is the definitive then-and-now of the Stoddard family home, Rectory Park near Goudhurst:


1966


now

Paul M

[Macca]

Also the Star at Goudhurst, scene of the post-British GP party:



and Mimmo Dei's villa in Monza where Sarti has his apartment from which Louise runs during the Italian GP (nippy little runner, she was - it's about two miles!



Paul M

Edited by Macca, 29 February 2012 - 16:24.

[R.W. Mackenzie]

I don't recall if this has been raised before but I am absolutely flabbergasted. This past weekend a friend of mine mentioned something that I have never noticed before in the hundreds of times I have watched this silly movie. Now that I've seen it it seems so obvious that I really can't believe I missed it before.

During the Spa drivers' meeting Graham Hill (alias Bob Turner) says something and then walks to the back of the room. As he walks past Jochen Rindt (alias Jochen Rindt) Jochen grabs his foot and trips him and then laughs. This is so contrary to the tense atmosphere of the meeting that it should have stuck out like a sore thumb.

Has anyone else noticed this? Am I the only "Grand Prix" fanatic that has missed it?

(I'd post screen shots as I have in the past to show what I mean but it's been so long I've forgotten how to do it.)

Bob Mackenzie

[Barry Boor]

Yes, every time I've watched the film.

[vashlin]

Yes, every time I've watched the film.

Same here. I always loved that bit.

Lin

[Geoff E]

James Garner's car is for sale - see LOTUS 20/22 http://www.formulaju...s_for_sale.html

Edited by Geoff E, 07 April 2010 - 20:22.

[Vitesse2]

I haven't really been folowing this thread recently, but I was browsing through some picture agencies today and found a sequence of 20 at Mirrorpix taken during filming at Brands Hatch.

http://www.mirrorpix...otoweb/Home.fwx

Just search for Grand Prix Garner

[275 GTB-4]

I haven't really been folowing this thread recently, but I was browsing through some picture agencies today and found a sequence of 20 at Mirrorpix taken during filming at Brands Hatch.

http://www.mirrorpix...otoweb/Home.fwx

Just search for Grand Prix Garner

Well spotted...try other searches like James Garner...maybe lots more available

[Macca]

The photo with James Garner and his daughter with Jessica Walter in the paddock at Brands had been posted before, but nobody knew it was Gigi Garner in the crash-helmet.



"James Garner's car is for sale - see LOTUS 20/22 [url="http://www.formulajunior.com/For%20Sale/FJ...s_for_sale.html""]http://www.formulaju...FJ...sale.html"[/url]

The autographed FJ Lotus/"BRM" which was used in the photo-shoot at Monza with Garner and Jacques Villeneuve in 1999 has been raced regularly - here it is at Oulton Park in June 2001:



and there are two other ex-movie cars in that list of cars for sale, one a Formula B Lotus 20/22 with modified frame and t/c engine and still retaining its film pseudo-Lotus 33 nose.


Paul M

[Tomas Karlsson]

I tried this question in another thread without success. Is there anyone here who has a clue?

I was reading MotorSport from 1962 and thought for a while that i was reading the 1966 issues, because Jenkinson complained about the silly movie people that disturbed the racing business. From the French GP report: "The tiresome film company who have been playing Grand Prix racing all this season, play-acting in front of the pits while teams have been trying to do some serious work, then tried to do some "fake" racing shots with a camera on the back of Cooper's 4-cylinder car, but it blew up half-way around the lap."
Which film is he talking about? I can't find anything about this film-project. Is there anyone who can help me?

[roger.daltrey]

It was the film called 'The Young Racers' directed by Roger Corman (king of the B-Movies)

I saw it once on Sky about 15 years ago - not that good for the plot

It did have some stars of the time - and I'm sure Jack Brabham and JC were in it.

Probably one to own on DVD, more as a snapshot of racing back then, rather than a great film.

Rog

[Tomas Karlsson]

Thanks!!

[Manfred Cubenoggin]

Another 'headsup' for Turner Classic Movies broadcasting 'Grand Prix' this Wednesday, April 21st @ 10pm EDT. The blurb...

10:00 PM Grand Prix (1966)
Auto racers find danger and romance at the legendary European road race. Cast: James Garner, Eva Marie Saint, Yves Montand. Dir: John Frankenheimer. C-176 mins, TV-14, CC, Letterbox Format

[Macca]

It was the film called 'The Young Racers' directed by Roger Corman (king of the B-Movies)

I saw it once on Sky about 15 years ago - not that good for the plot

It did have some stars of the time - and I'm sure Jack Brabham and JC were in it.

Probably one to own on DVD, more as a snapshot of racing back then, rather than a great film.

Rog

Some stills can be seen here:
http://www.imcdb.org...ie.php?id=57706

TCM show 'Grand Prix' regularly in the UK, but not on the same day as in the USA. Sadly 'The Young Racers' hasn't been on British TV in living memory, nor 'The Racers' or 'The Green Helmet'.

Paul M

[Tomas Karlsson]

Some stills can be seen here:
http://www.imcdb.org...ie.php?id=57706

Where Jo Bonnier's red Venezia-Porsche 718 from Monaco '62 has become a 1961 787...

There seems to be some footage from Monaco '62 in the movie.

[f1steveuk]

Some stills can be seen here:
http://www.imcdb.org...ie.php?id=57706

TCM show 'Grand Prix' regularly in the UK, but not on the same day as in the USA. Sadly 'The Young Racers' hasn't been on British TV in living memory, nor 'The Racers' or 'The Green Helmet'.

Paul M

I watched the Green Helmet only a couple of months ago, and I'm still waiting for Sid James to laugh, can't remember the channel, but watched the whole thing.

[WestLAGuy]

An Observation on My First Time: I first saw Grand Prix at a screening sponsored by my university ( USC ) at the Cinerama Dome theater in Hollywood. The opening title sequence created by Saul Bass was nothing short of astonishing. A visual and aural mind blower, to use the old term, and even though the DVD is quite good, you simply can't replicate the Cinerama experience no matter how big your HD screen might be.

The Which of the Actors Besides Garner Actually Drove question I have seen raised many times. Early on in this thread, it is stated that only Garner drove in the racing sequences. I think there is ample evidence to support Yves Montand doing his driving, at least at Monza and earlier at Spa. The amazing camera technology developed for this movie included gyro mounts on the cars and certainly the camera car ( GT40) that pan from the right front wheel looking ahead, and then pans around 90 degrees to reveal the driver on the banking at Monza, case in point and clearly to me at least, Montand is driving his car, not just sitting in a prop car on a flatbed or being towed, which was also done for him after a spin.

As to the other two actors, I'm pretty sure Brian Bedford didn't want any part of the driving side of his Scott Stoddard role, but Antonio Sabato while not comfortable at speed, nevertheless did his own driving for the most part.

Regardless, the racing scenes at Spa and Monza to this day, are still incredible.

The Danger of Racing in the 1960's: In the program for the film, there are 16 racing drivers ( not counting Fangio and Chiron) listed as participating in Grand Prix. Seven years later, 8 of them had been killed either in races or in practice and or testing.