1173 replies to this topic

[arnulfo182]

Would anybody care to explain to me why Jos Verstappen has a seat in F1? The man has proved to be completely out of his depth in this pinnacle of motorsport. And yet, nobody can so much as mention that another driver might be better than "the boss" without (Dutch) posters becoming outraged. Consider this:

-JV has been consistently creamed by his teammates: Schuey (no surprise there), Salo, Barrichello, PDLR (consider Pedro could have had many more points if it weren't for his awful luck), and even Bernoldi (yes, Bernoldi overtook Jos for position in Germany) and yet Jos suggests Bernoldi is not good for the team. Gee Jos, but you said he's "strong in qualifying"...Oh wait, that's probably why, you're just scared of him.

-JV has been hailed the king of gravel, spinning out when confronted by speed. And as far as racing is concerned he's hopeless.

-JV is astonishingly arrogant, whether he's breaking people's arms at karting tracks, or using Williamses as revolutionary braking devices. Jos even had the gall to say that in the future he would make it harder for Montoya to lap him! I guess Jos doesn't think he made it too hard on Monty in Brazil!

So, Jos, why are you in F1 when there are so many more qualified people in F1?

[TazioN]

Actually, it was a skull that he broke at his karting track. I believe the case was settled out of court.

And I agree with you. I´ve thought that, except for ocasional (very sporadic) flashes of brilliancy, they only keep him because of the Dutch sponsors.

Yeah, he might have outqualified Mimmo Schiatarella, but then again, that wouldn´t be too hard.

I see Verstappen taking the same road in a couple of years as the other Dutchman, Arye Ludyendik. Verstappen is clearly IRL material, not F1. Only that Arye was like 50 years old when he went to the IRL and had had a successful career elsewhere.

[brett_sequeira]

oooh you going to incur the wrath of Frans i so would not want to be in your booties

[arnulfo182]

actually I don't think Jos could win even in IRL! Imagine, with all the lapping that goes on in ovals, poor bastard Jos would take out at least 5-10 cars every race! Jos should be happy to even have the the 10th fastest lap at his own kart track! And no beating up people just because they're faster than you Jos!

[Vetinary]

Originally posted by brett_sequeira
oooh you going to incur the wrath of Frans i so would not want to be in your booties

Yes, this thread should be fun to watch ;)

[Frans]

May I ask why such people seem to be FREE from they're white jackets and white room?


:yawn:

oh boy, whatever, I alsways have to laugh my ass off when people claim how they could prove why Schu is the best or a good driver in overall......

This attempt is to DE-class Jos the Boss, the most wanted driver in F1.

With HIM in your team you gain ADVERADGE 6 PLACES per start PER RACE.

Jos has overtaken MORE cars this season in overtaking manouvre's THAN ALL OTHERS TOGETHER!!!!!!!



But hey ...... arnulfo182, is not to be taken serious, hehehe. He's american. WHahahahahaha, .... they are not used to R-A-C-I-N-G, even if they saw it right in front of they're nose.....

well a tip;, chill and keep down.

[Nikolas Garth]

Frans,
I just don't know how arnulfo182 will be able to argue against the "points" you have made.

[Frans]

Look, this is a incredible story here, but they asked MS in an interview, "who's the best CURRENT F1 driver in the field?"

And he answered with ease: "That must be Jos "the Boss" Verstappen this moment I must admit."

just imagine, what IF he was right for once?

Jos pushes cars with much much less BHP into the points-positions...... in the rain he's almost unbeatable...... His car control is like no other, and if he starts........ he overtakes 6 people for SURE every start...... ( statistic ).

Jos beats Launch Control, AND in many occasions even Traction Control...

I know drivers who cannot drive a F1 car WITHOUT even!!!!!!

But what am I doing here? I'm telling you all stuff you all know already....... damn, oooops I did it again.

[Hakk]

Frans: ..the most wanted driver in F1..

[Daemon]

For once, please NOTE, and only on this subject, I agree with Frans. Jos easily deserves his spot on the grid, I hoped he would get the 2nd Ferrari seat with his good buddy Michael Schumacher (thats right Frans:up: ).

Personally I consider Jos the most underrated drivers in any category. The guy is so often overlooked by team, as even though the people in the know definately know that Jos is extremely quick on his day, his history in F1 is all over the shop. A year here, 1/2 a year there, then a year off.

Were I in the position of looking for a driver, I'd hire Jos, and it would be the best bargain of any of the current drivers.

[RiverRunner]

Frans,you are truly a riot,but perhaps you should remember that California is part of the US (not that I think that's a good thing) and we've forgotten more about R-A-C-I-N-G than you can imagine from your soggy view.
Just my POV of the last bastion of unlimited Horsepower in the hands of common man,SoCal.

[Frans]

oooeh yeah, whatever...



the funniest thing is now that Bernoldi ONCE in his carreer finsihed BEFORE JOs, ( Jos with an extra pitstop even, Bernoldi with less fuel load etc etc. )

The overtaking manouvre we saw from Bernoldi was becasue the following...... Jos closed the gab to Bernoldi easily, but passing was a problem... Bernoldi took an entire chicane, to make an extra gab in the final couple of laps..... Jos asked over the radio "what the fEk...." and did it also a lap later... ( if you do it, Jos can do it better..;) ) so therefore Jos was in front of Bernoldi, and he HAD to let him pass..... ( shortcut-move.. ) .

That's the reason why Bernoldi was passing Jos in the replay of Hockie..

Several laps the team was BEGGING to settle for positions.... ( really this was soooo funny, ) ...

Well, Jos didn't reply, did push a little, but did listen to the team.... ( to make that brat Bernoldi happy for one time in his carreer... )


funny thing is, some people now have the conviction that Bernoldi is a superstar or seomthing,.

know what? Bernoldi needs to qualify himself about 12 places in front of Jos, before he won't get blasted away by Jos at the start alone......

( RiverRunner, are you SURE california is part of the US ? .... Racing is invented over here..... over there you got what we learned you guys.....

Racing originated in Europe... Europe found land a long time ago, (america) and populated it with Europeans who didn't wanted to live in Europe anymore.... The Dutch had New Amsterdam.....

Well, after a while we thought let those carzy people here do whatever they wanna do. We sold New Amsterdam to the people there... and we left.

Now it's named New York.

God what is it so very fine to have a history longer than a couple of hundreds years back.... we count in century's when we talk about history. the US can't......

oh well, where were we? Jos the Boss?

Never mess with him is my personal advice.

[Breadmaster]

This pains me but i'm afraid I agree with Frans too...

The Boss is a very talented driver (18th to 3rd in two laps in Malaysia this year) and with only one incident which put me off him(running into Montoya in Brazil) he's top notch....let's hope next years Arrows will be as good as the Cossie engine and Jos inside it then we might see quality results from the lad!

[LuckyStrike1]

Reading Frans all "points" I have to confess ... oh yeah ... I am a changed man now, I have seen the light. Jos is simply the best, will go on to a WDC next year, own a team and buy the whole F1 circus from Bernie... all at the same time

Aren't we talking about road rage Jos "the Gravel King" here ?

[RiverRunner]

Jos,you are close,yes,every loser,religious whacko and criminal possible was shipped here.
That's why we are the meanest,most closeminded and not afraid a anyone pieces of **** on the planet.We've had our asses thrown or forced out of everywhere else.

I like it that way,I like those kinda people,no one here goes along with the system,they re-write it,hence your abundance of whacked out speed freaks.
We will contine to do what we do in SoCal,we can continue to burn copious amounts of dinosaur juice in anything with wheels or that floats,build 1000 HP motors at whim and bolt them into whatever we want,be it a slab of fiberglas,carbon fiber or a tangle of chrome moly.Or a buggy that is amped enough to take for a thousand mile spin into Baja.
And do it all year.

Meanwhile,you guys have fun in your go cart in the marsh,when it's not frozen, and pontificate that that is the only R-A-C-I-N-G on earth.

I'll stick with our tracks,Fontana,Laguna Seca,Long Beach,Pomona,Irwindale,Willow Springs,The Desert,Glamis,the Pacific Ocean,a fair amount of Mexico in Baja and of course my favorites,Havasu and Parker.
There's about a hundred others I didn't mention.

We'll be R_A_C_I_N_G anything we can get our hands on.
Every where we can.
While you freeze.
You sound like the kinda person that would dig it.

Don't even think about it ;)


Oh.yeah,nice job by Jos this year,he's graduated from running into gravel traps to other racers...

[Breadmaster]

yes ok then.
Still i'd rather have Jos driving for my team than say....Mazzacane? Marques? PDLR? Delatraz?

;)

[RiverRunner]

I rather have Jos than that bunch,too,but that's not saying much ;)

[Frans]

I'd bet Ron Dennis wants a Jos.... Eddie Jordan wants a Jos.... BAR won't, because Villie doesn't wanna have a Jos at all...... Schumechel also doesn't wanna have a Jos...

Be a smart team boss, and take Jos...

YeAH!!!

[philhitchings]

Originally posted by Frans

This attempt is to DE-class Jos the Boss, the most wanted driver in F1.

With HIM in your team you gain ADVERADGE 6 PLACES per start PER RACE.

Jos has overtaken MORE cars this season in overtaking manouvre's THAN ALL OTHERS TOGETHER!!!!!!!

Most wanted? Why is he running in an Arrows then?

Overtake more cars in the first lap? YES.

Lightest Fuel Load on the Grid? YES.


Look at the facts Frans http://www.atlasf1.c...s/standings.htm


In the points this year? YES once

Better than Bernoldi? He should be with his experience.

lying well in the championship 17th Equal with DLR

Who is he beating 3 rookies Alonso, Bernoldi, & Burti. and the slowest man on the grid all season (outside 107% rule twice) Marques.

As for the team doing well? 10th (even Benetton are ahead of them)

But at least they are winning the battle with Minardi:rolleyes: So I supose you must be right Frans using your logic of course

Jos is a driver, and a racer, intermittently. However, the drivel you come out with in support of him is as pathetic as the stuff you write about Schumacher. The twisted sense of logic you apply is beyond belief.................

[A3]

Would anybody care to explain to me why Jos Verstappen has a seat in F1?

Sure:

Driver's Season Total (overtaking during race)

=====================



 19  Panis

 18  Barrichello & [b]Verstappen[/b]

 16  M Schumacher

 15  Button

 12  Burti

 11  Coulthard

 10  R Schumacher

  9  Bernoldi & Alesi

  7  Irvine, Alonso & Montoya

  5  Heidfeld, Räikkönen & Villeneuve

  4  Frentzen, Fisichella, De la Rosa & Häkkinen

  3  Mazzacane & Trulli

  1  Marques

  0  Zonta

---

187



Gains/Losses on Lap One in 2001

===============================



Number in brackets is average grid position this season



[b]Verstappen	 +55  (17.17)[/b]

Fisichella	 +33  (16.92)

Button		 +30  (18.83)

Marques		+21  (21.75)

Bernoldi	   +16  (18.08)

Montoya		+13   (6.42)

Zonta		   +6  (13.50)

De la Rosa	  +4  (14.25)

Alonso		  +4  (19.75)

Räikkönen	   +3  (10.33)

Villeneuve	  +3  (10.00)

Irvine		  +3  (12.25)

Alesi		   +1  (14.92)

Mazzacane		-  (20.00)

Burti		   -2  (16.67)

M Schumacher	-2   (1.67)

Barrichello	 -3   (4.75)

Trulli		  -7   (6.08)

Coulthard	   -9   (4.17)

Panis		   -9  (10.33)

R Schumacher   -11   (3.58)

Heidfeld	   -12  (10.00)

Frentzen	   -13   (8.20)

Häkkinen	   -20   (4.00)

-JV has been consistently creamed by his teammates

If you try to critise someone, atleast get your facts straight. Yes, ofcourse MS was faster than rookie Verstappen, but Barichello had it more difficult against him. Still he outperformed Jos, but the team gave Barichello better material.
If you really payed attention last year, you'd know Verstappen had at least as much bad luck als Pedro. Jos outperformed Pedro in the races, fact.
For once, in a race, Bernoldi is in front of Verstappen (because of his unscheduled stop) and you say he "creamed" Jos? Verstappen says Bernoldi isn't good for the team because he isn't a team player. He gets in the car and drives, he doesn't try to develop the team.

As for the Montoya issue, please. It happened to Villeneuve and Barrichello as well. Do they have to get out of F-1 as well?

And why is Pedro still allowed in F-1 after crasing into the back of Heidfeld?

Please.

[Flying Panda]

Hurry up and delete this stupid thread.

Jos is undoubtibly one of the top 5 drivers on the grid, although there are a lot of stubborn idiots who arn't willing to accept this.

yes, Bernoldi overtook Jos for position in Germany

hmmm, maybe thats becaues Zonta tried a hopeless overtaking manouver on Jos,and ended up ramming his car. Thats why Zonta retired. Thats why his front wing came off on the chicaine. Were you watching a different telecast?

running into Montoya in Brazil

So yor really gonna blame Jos for this???, Naah, it could never have been something to do with the Williams' brakes, it was just coincidence that their brakes got them into trouble twice at Brazil, and one in Australia.

Jos even had the gall to say that he waould make it harder for Montoya to lap him

WOW!! do you work in politics? or Media? you realy should. Disredarging a whole issue, just taking one sentance from it to make your point of view.
Maybe, no definatly, if Montoya didn't go mouthing off, those things wouldn't have been said.
What is 'gall' anyway? Testicular fortitude?

And why is Pedro still allowed in F-1 after crasing into the back of Heidfeld?

probably the same reason the driver at fault last year in Monza is still in F1.
It was an ACCIDENT. I'm sure Rahal was on the Radio 'hay Pedro, our cars havent been getting much TV time, could you cause a crash that take out half the field for us?'

Oh, no, no, wait - Pedro saw Burti's crash, and wanted to prove he was as good as the man he was replacing!!!

[A3]

Don't get me wrong, I like Pedro. I was just using it as an example. Jos gets flamed for something, while other drivers who make the same mistake, walk away.

[Lipp]

Thanks A3,

the statistics show that Jos is doing very well indeed. One cannot deny this, last race again he was up to 11th from 20 after lap one and after that he was hit from behind by Zonta, that is the only way Bernoldi could get before him in the race...

Also regarding Verstappen crashing into Montoya... Why was the Williams diffuser banned two races later??? I am not saying this had something to do with it, but could it be that it was 'killing' the downforce of the cars driving behind it..?

[AcidIce]

What a laugh of a topic...

In last month's (June I think) F1 Magazine there was a Jos profile, and the headline over the article was "The difference between winners ....and losers" The "....and losers" part of the sentence was printed over a Jos photo.

Originally posted by Frans

With HIM in your team you gain ADVERADGE 6 PLACES per start PER RACE.

Not really that hard when you've got half the fuel load the rest has.

Originally posted by Frans
Jos has overtaken MORE cars this season in overtaking manouvre's THAN ALL OTHERS TOGETHER!!!!!!!

Wow! And his best finish this season has been 6th, then he must have lost more places THAN ALL OTHERS TOGETHER!!!

Originally posted by A3
Jos outperformed Pedro in the races, fact.

When? I just remember Interlagos... When did Jos score? Monza and Canada. In Monza Pedro flew in the 2nd chicane crash, and in Canada, before being pushed into the armco by Diniz, he had to enter in pits twice, one for his scheduled pitstop and then yet another time to change to wets, while Jos pitted once, his scheduled stop, and changed to wets at the same time. Before that Pedro was running 6th fighting with Mika for position, while Rubens, and Mika were stuck behind Jacques mobile chicane in 3rd.
Sure Jos did some amazing overtaking manouevers in the wet, but I think Pedro did something similar in Nurburbring. I think that your statement "Jos outperformed Pedro in the races, fact" is more than arguable.

Originally posted by A3
As for the Montoya issue, please. It happened to Villeneuve and Barrichello as well. Do they have to get out of F-1 as well?

And why is Pedro still allowed in F-1 after crasing into the back of Heidfeld?

This is just too much for me...

Villeneuve, Barrichello and Pedro, they all missed their braking point and ran into the back of a car in front of them, a car that was fighting for position with them!!!. For Christ's sake, Jos ran into the back of Montoya when he was being lapped!!! And he even said he'll make it harder for him the next time!!! At least Pedro accepted he was to blame for this one and apologised for ruining Heidfeld's (and his) podium chances. I don't recall if Jacques and Rubens did, sorry.
What's this guy on? When you're being lapped you have to let the guy lapping you through, you aren't racing him!!! And if you do what Jos did, a mistake that could have costed Kimi his licence had he done it, you have to apologise as the idiot you have been, making the more stupid error on earth!!!

[No27]

-JV has been consistently creamed by his teammates: Schuey (no surprise there), Salo, Barrichello, PDLR (consider Pedro could have had many more points if it weren't for his awful luck), and even Bernoldi (yes, Bernoldi overtook Jos for position in Germany) and yet Jos suggests Bernoldi is not good for the team. Gee Jos, but you said he's "strong in qualifying"...Oh wait, that's probably why, you're just scared of him.

Was he outperformed by Salo? Don't know, but do know that Ken Tyrrell quit his team one year earlier than planned because he wanted Jos but got Rosset. At Stewart they were unable to provide two equal cars on the grid. Look at Herbert getting better and better at the end of 1999 and Barrichello getting worse all the time. I doubt that Pedro de la Rosa could have more points than Jos last year, if he had the luck. Anyway, it didn't happen, did it?
Bernoldi overtook him in Germany? O dear, o dear. he must be much better then! Can remember Barrichello overtaking Schumacher somewhere. You wouldn't drop Schumacher for it, would you?

-JV has been hailed the king of gravel, spinning out when confronted by speed. And as far as racing is concerned he's hopeless.

See the stats above, speak for themselves. And remember, Bernoldi has the same weight advantage at the start.

-JV is astonishingly arrogant, whether he's breaking people's arms at karting tracks, or using Williamses as revolutionary braking devices. Jos even had the gall to say that in the future he would make it harder for Montoya to lap him! I guess Jos doesn't think he made it too hard on Monty in Brazil!

But here you have a good point! "Jos Verstappen warnes JPM for the last time". It's a bit of Dutch tradition. In the 70's the Ministry of Foreign Affairs made statements like that
"The Netherlands warnes China for the last time!"
A you might concluded by yourselves, I follow the guy sometime. I must say that since he returned in F1 last year, he made some improvement on his appearance. However. Last two weeks something has gotten into his head (Cosworth engines?) that make him say rather stupid things again.

[lustigson]

I don't understand that, since Verstappen is supposedly one of the top drivers in Formula 1, why he isn't at Ferrari, McLaren, Williams or even Jordan or BAR? Explain that to me!

[Robbie]

Jos the Boss, the most wanted driver in F1.

MOST WANTED? in the DEAD or ALIVE sense? Possibly the former for JPM, but not the latter given the amount of teams who have sacked him.

[Frans]

lustigson
and to me to please .......

[Kev]

A couple of people seem to be very aware of Jos' (lacking of) skills and character. That's great, how do they do it? I mean, for how many races have they actually watched him perform with their own eyes, closely following him through all the sessions while analyzing his driving style and track behavior? Or are there some documentaries about Jos that I don't know about?

Frankly, I think it's all hear-say, just copying what others say and pasting some statistics from Forix. Now, the news is: statistics don't tell the whole story and just reflect a given moment in time. They have no regard for circumstances. I mean, look at JPM's stats now (qual., dnf, points difference with Ralf etc.). Not a very pretty sight, are they? Almost as lousy as Verstappen's ;)

But we all know JPM is gonna get there because we're able to look further than the stats, because we see what he does on the track. He took the steady road into F1, making his beginner mistakes in the lower formulas/other classes, having steady multiple-season drives without the pressure of losing his seat. He was able to develop himself nicely.

Jos however was thrown in deep water at the age of 21, making all his mistakes in the spotlights. He got off bad and then the way back up can be very hard and frustrating. Bad careermoves and too many team changes can make a good driver look crappy, not being able to develop a feel for the car, pressured to overdrive himself and his inferior car just to make an impression. He was hardly able to develop himself, due to the constant pressure of losing his seat.

Learning to brake with the left foot for instance leads to a drop in performance initially. It is only in this season that he has been able to try that, knowing his drive was secure. Imagine this: in his 7-year career this is the first time he has a second season at the same team. And don't give me the "he obviously is not good enough"-**** because most of his departures were money related (Simtek, Arrows, Tyrrell) or just plain bad luck (Postlewaith Honda).

Jos has always shown promise, spirit, determination and gutsy drives. He always fights and has this incredible urge to make up positions, although his material has never permitted him to do so. Amazingly, most JPM-fans seem to disgust Jos for exactly the same reasons they love JPM for. But strong characters will collide eventually and that has happened twice already this season. Don't let it anger you. Try to enjoy it.

[Kev]

AcidIce:

Not really that hard when you've got half the fuel load the rest has.

You still have to do it (in an Arrows). How come Jos' teammates (Pedro, Enrique) didn't manage the same?

When? I just remember Interlagos... When did Jos score?

Did you also happen to see what happened when he did NOT score? Or did you have your eyes on Pedro all the time? BTW, I keep hearing about Pedro's bad luck in the races, while hardly anyone ever mentions Jos' bad luck in qualifying.

Wow! And his best finish this season has been 6th, then he must have lost more places THAN ALL OTHERS TOGETHER!!!

Yep, he did. In the pitlane...What else did you expect?

...they all missed their braking point and ran into the back of a car in front of them, a car that was fighting for position with them!!!. For Christ's sake, Jos ran into the back of Montoya when he was being lapped!!!

What's the difference? He did let Juan through and he was not trying to overtake. There was an error of judgement and he ran into the back of a car in front of him. Well, that happened to be JPM, big deal!! BTW, he apologised afterwards, but I guess you missed that very conveniently.

[Smooth]

Why all the fanfare around Jos' useless passing stats? He has finished once in the points. Once. So even if he had 750+ passes it would still amount to nothing but a very light car with good top speed. And his starts? All he does is get up to where he should have qualified to start with. Being outqualified by Bernoldi so often is not in any way excusable.

Does Jos deserve a spot on the grid? Well, with the mediocre talent at the back end of the grid, I could care less if he takes up a spot in a car that doesn't challenge for anything more than 10th place anyway. He has had a few good drives, and a few really bad drives, but mostly he is just filling out the numbers, and bringing on some home-country sponsorship along.

[Kev]

Originally posted by Smooth
Why all the fanfare around Jos' useless passing stats? He has finished once in the points. Once. So even if he had 750+ passes it would still amount to nothing but a very light car with good top speed.

The fanfare is proving that with a decent car he's able to mix it with the top guys. You can't get an Arrows Asiatech to win races, no matter the strategy.

And his starts? All he does is get up to where he should have qualified to start with

The two Arrows-drivers mostly qualify next to each other. It's just the best they can do with a car without a qualifying engine. So Jos gaining an average six places at the start is more than what could have been expected.

he is just filling out the numbers, and bringing on some home-country sponsorship along.

Jos having big sponsors? Well, check your sources again.

[LuckyStrike1]

I suppose you have to give if to Jos for at least being a hard racer and overtaker that brings excitement to the races...

[Smooth]

Originally posted by Kev


The fanfare is proving that with a decent car he's able to mix it with the top guys. You can't get an Arrows Asiatech to win races, no matter the strategy.

No, it just proves that with a car that is WAAAAAY lighter he can pass other cars who will end up in front of him anyway. As I said, all the passing is pointless if it doesn't stick at the end.



The two Arrows-drivers mostly qualify next to each other. It's just the best they can do with a car without a qualifying engine. So Jos gaining an average six places at the start is more than what could have been expected.

Jos has been outqualified by his rookie teammate more than half the time, and Bernoldi is no whiz-kid. Jos should be a couple positions in front of him on the grid anyway. Add to that the fact that he starts with 1/3 less fuel than the cars in front of him makes his starts nothing more than a light car with decent acceleration.



Jos having big sponsors? Well, check your sources again.

Jos' drive helped bring on Lost Boys, Baan, (both hometown companies) and entire car is Orange, is it not? Two of the original Orange partners were dutch and while they are a British-based company, they, and Chello, are both looking for other euro-growth.

[SchuMic]

I'm with LuckyStrike,

I'm not going to say that JOs is WDC material, one of the 5 top drivers...But he's certainly a driver with temper & guts. Last season (Monza (or was it PDLR?) and Canada) and this season (Malaysia, Austria, Brazil ;p) Jos gave us some great entertainments some many other driver never do.

Jos's problem is that he's inconsitent but when he drives well, he deserve a lot!

Just look at some other pilots with better machinery: they scored points with total discretion, just in cruising mode. Jos on the other hand, fight like a lion (à la Frans' avatar)

Jos at least, put his mark in our memory...





...and in the gravel traps!

Something that many of his teammates didn't do it (for the first part) or not with an Arrows (or equivalent).

So don't like Jos but bashing him and saying that he should go away is absolute nonsense and STUPIDITY.

If Tom keeps him, there's a good reason. And between your (Arnulfo182) opinion and Tom's one, I know who I would trust.

And YOU should go away!!!!

[Lipp]

Smooth, check your stats for top speed, the arrows of last year had good speed, but this years' hasn't.
If you say that finishing is what matters, then qualifying isn't important too, so don't use it as an argument.

[magic]

jos must stay.

great in sepang:up:

a drama in brazil:mad:

but always an entertaining watch.

[magic]

in fact he is what people say alesi is.

[Smooth]

Originally posted by Lipp
Smooth, check your stats for top speed, the arrows of last year had good speed, but this years' hasn't.
If you say that finishing is what matters, then qualifying isn't important too, so don't use it as an argument.

A: They have had some chassis improvements, and have lost a bit of top speed. It is still pretty decent for a lower level team.

B: Jos neither finishes nor qualifies well, so it is a valid argument, is it not?

[A3]

Originally posted by Lipp
Smooth, check your stats for top speed, the arrows of last year had good speed, but this years' hasn't.
If you say that finishing is what matters, then qualifying isn't important too, so don't use it as an argument.

The top speed of the Arrows isn't that bad, they're around the midfield concerning top speed, but Verstappen said it took the car "ages" to get there. The acceleration sucks.

[Kev]

Smooth:

As I said, all the passing is pointless if it doesn't stick at the end.

Then the whole existence of Arrows this season is pointless. The A22 is not a point scoring car, unlike the A21 so why bother?
Driver and team are making the most of a lost season and just try to make sure they get some coverage. BTW, we are talking about it, just like the media so it's not pointless at all if you ask me.

Jos has been outqualified by his rookie teammate more than half the time, and Bernoldi is no whiz-kid

More than half the time? Incorrect, it's 6-6. Besides, Jos has been struggling with an experimental front suspension for 3 gp's in a row. Sometimes things work out, sometimes they don't.

In 2000, Pedro and Jos normally qualified next to each other as well. Jos was new, Pedro was in his second season. So I think Bernoldi isn't a bad qualifyer at all.

Jos' drive helped bring on Lost Boys, Baan, (both hometown companies) and entire car is Orange, is it not? Two of the original Orange partners were dutch and while they are a British-based company, they, and Chello, are both looking for other euro-growth.

Baan was sponsoring before Jos entered. I haven't seen them on the car ever since.
Lost Boys = correct. Not a multinational though. Pretty small company.
The car being Orange has nothing to do with Jos driving it. It's their title-sponsor as was the case before Jos entered.
Chello won't be sponsoring anymore. This year was a problem already with a lawsuit going on.

[Kev]

Smooth:

A: They have had some chassis improvements, and have lost a bit of top speed. It is still pretty decent for a lower level team.

Decent...but is it still the secret behind the overtaking figure? Or is there another reason for it? Lightness applies to all Arrows-drivers, I figure.

B: Jos neither finishes nor qualifies well, so it is a valid argument, is it not?

There were numerous reasons why they couldn't make their gains stick. Reliability and luck are some of them.

Jos doesn't finish well? He's screwing up? So, a low finish is because of Jos and a high finish because of the car? Doesn't compute, if you ask me...
Try to compare Jos' finishes to his teammates. That would be of more importance.

[MPea3]

Originally posted by magic
in fact he is what people say alesi is.

agreed... it seems like Verstappen has become the new alesi, a passionate driver and wonderful to watch, but also a driver for whom you have to wonder "what if". i think everyone might agree that it would be entertaining as hell to see him in a better ride.

[A3]

Indeed MPea3, that's why I hope next years Cosworth will be top-notch.

Oh, and arnulfo182, Paul Stoddart doesn't share your opinion:

...."Jaguar have just given Arrows an engine and Arrows will beat them," said Stoddart. "Not might, they will."

Stoddart backed Arrows Dutch driver Jos Verstappen to beat Jaguar's Eddie Irvine and Pedro de la Rosa but said the competition will be good for the Milton Keynes team.

He added: "They've got a damned good chassis and you put a good engine in there with a driver like Verstappen, who's been on podiums before, they'll be good. But for Jaguar, I think competition is good."

[Smooth]

Originally posted by Kev
Try to compare Jos' finishes to his teammates. That would be of more importance.

So your benchmark for Jos is Enrique Bernoldi? Well, ok then. He is a jewel....

[Kev]

Teammates...Bernoldi isn't the only teammate Jos had at Arrows

[Frans]

Jos Verstappen, Kick him, Let him fly, Set him on Fire, Crash him, Blow him and kick him again.

He ALWAYS KEEPS COMMING BACK!!

No sponsor money ever required, always chosen for his talent to drive fast.........

Name ONE driver who isn't scared to be overtaken by Jos the Boss?

Many are, many will......




[btw, ask F1-knower Ken Tyrell how he thinks about Jos.....]

[Kev]

I love poetry...

[Frans]

and about his carreer so far at Simtek, Arrows, Tyrell and Steward......

each year Jos got the greatest award for nature in F1.

He was the driver who could end a season on ONE SINGLE FUEL TANK ......freaking hell!!!!

Good driver + good team = Good result.

Good driver + not good team = good/not good result.

never had a GOOD team and/or car...... this will happen!!! just waiT!

[SchuMic]

Originally posted by Frans


Name ONE driver who isn't scared to be overtaken by Jos the Boss?

Many are, many will......

I'm scared...by you

BTW what the fEk do you have to metion Schumacher every time you post even if he's not the subject (or directly related)? Are you obsessed by him or what?;)

He ALWAYS KEEPS COMMING BACK!!

Jos is Terminator!!!!