88 replies to this topic

[Megatron]

I read somewhere the other day that the March six wheeler that was tested but not raced actually featured only four wheels that had pull in them, and two were dummies. The reason was that March were looking to generate sponsorship interest. Does anyone know if this is indeed true?

I know that Tyrrell's getting National from Penske in 1977 might have something to do with the exposure the sixwheeler got, so maybe it might have been a viable option.

[Rainer Nyberg]

The '2-4-0' as it was called, featured indeed four driving wheels at rear. It had two differentials connected to the Hewland transmission, using a special pinion.

[Drinky]

I think this article by Mike Lawrence has some more info on that.

[Paolo]

As mentioned in the article above, there was a Scalectrix model of March 2.4.0
I very well remember my disappontment when, as a boy, I bought one, took it home and... discovered it was only 2wd.
Besides, the small rear tyres made it almost unuseful ; probably the slowest Scalelectrix ever.

[Allen Brown]

Lawrence's article is very good but I can add a little to the history.

Curiously enough, I actually owned the March 2-4-0 for a while a few years ago (about 96/97 if I remember correctly). It had been loaned out and forgotten - my partner and I were able to reclaim it and rebuild it. The version we got was the show car, a quite different car to the one Roy Lane used on the hills. Lane's car was a March 771 with the 2-4-0 conversion. That is now in bits in the north of England. Our car was a March 761B show car built out of the March 761 test car. The working transmission went to Lane.

I never had the Scalextric model so it's rather cute to have owned the real thing.

Allen

[Barry Boor]

Being as I am, mildy interested in things Scalextric, I recall reading somewhere that the licence money that March got for selling the rights to make the 2-4-0 to Scalextric made it the highest earning car that March ever built.

And before you ask, NO, I haven't got one!

[Vitesse2]

Originally posted by Barry Boor
Being as I am, mildy interested in things Scalextric, I recall reading somewhere that the licence money that March got for selling the rights to make the 2-4-0 to Scalextric made it the highest earning car that March ever built.

And before you ask, NO, I haven't got one!

It also got lots of "appearance money" at exhibitions - see Hodges A-Z (1990), p164-5

[Racer.Demon]

Here's to bumping a ten-year-old thread...

Curiously enough, I actually owned the March 2-4-0 for a while a few years ago (about 96/97 if I remember correctly). It had been loaned out and forgotten - my partner and I were able to reclaim it and rebuild it. The version we got was the show car, a quite different car to the one Roy Lane used on the hills. Lane's car was a March 771 with the 2-4-0 conversion. That is now in bits in the north of England. Our car was a March 761B show car built out of the March 761 test car. The working transmission went to Lane.

So was the car that drove at the 2011 Silverstone Classic the Lane car, and is the one in the Louwman museum in The Hague the show car? Or is the other way around?

Silverstone Classic 2011:


Louwman Museum:

[alansart]

But why was the modern version run in Beta colours?

[Racer.Demon]

And not just in Beta colours, by the look of that front wing...

[zakeriath]

From what I can remember, the car first ran in the Rothmans sponsership as Ian Scheckter was the nominated driver.

I was working for Ian at the time with Ken Howe on the Lexington Atlantic in SA. Ian mentioned one day that he had to be very carefull with not spinning the wheels during the press launch, as it was wet and March had no drive to the rear of the 4 wheels,

Edited by zakeriath, 27 July 2011 - 13:22.

[f1steveuk]

From what I can remember, the car first ran in the Rothmans sponsership as Ian Scheckter was the nominated driver.

I was working for Ian at the time with Ken Howe on the Lexington Atlantic in SA. Ian mentioned one day that he had to be very carefull with not spinning the wheels during the press launch, as it was wet and March had no drive to the rear of the 4 wheels,

And I've heard exactly the same story but it was Max telling Howden to be careful with the appication of power!!

[Barry Boor]

What a very silly-looking car that really is!

[Thundersports]

It was run at Silverstone with a 761 that wasn't original to the car; so it is a bitsa but very nice to see it out.

[David Beard]

What a very silly-looking car that really is!

More silly than the P34?

[mfd]

It was run at Silverstone with a 761 that wasn't original to the car; so it is a bitsa but very nice to see it out.

So it's not quite the right chassis with a different nose & the wrong livery, but did it have four driven wheels?

[arttidesco]

So it's not quite the right chassis with a different nose & the wrong livery, but did it have four driven wheels?

I don't know if the car we saw at Silverstone last weekend had four driven wheels, but if it did not, would it not have had a few traction issues with only two small driven tyres on the back ?

[mfd]

I don't know if the car we saw at Silverstone last weekend had four driven wheels, but if it did not, would it not have had a few traction issues with only two small driven tyres on the back ?

Good point - I only saw it going relatively slowly

[arttidesco]

Good point - I only saw it going relatively slowly

Which may have been the result of poor 2WD traction ?

[zakeriath]

Which may have been the result of poor 2WD traction ?

Either that, or the driver being unable to fit properly in the car, note the bodywork cannot be fastened to the frame around his shoulders.

Edited by zakeriath, 28 July 2011 - 10:58.

[Red Socks]

It was run at Silverstone with a 761 that wasn't original to the car; so it is a bitsa but very nice to see it out.

Right, so thats history out of the window then-whats next?

[David Beard]

Good point - I only saw it going relatively slowly

I thought it was going quite well on Saturday

[James Murray]

If you had a 761 why would you ruin it and convert it to this........its ridiculous and leads me to think it might not even be an original 761. Be interested to know the history of the chassis.

[Red Socks]

I have an inky feeling you might have a long wait James-or no wait at all if you know what I mean.

[GroupC2]

As a March it will have a long and mixed history.

Adding the 6 wheel gearbox and rear end would be an easy job, a few hours work if it is all together. So little is lost, apart from historical provinance. I remember when Roy Lane was running his 6 wheeler, watching Antony and John, his mechanics change driveshafts and gears was a sight I will never forget.

However I would love to know what was inside the box at Silverstone, Roy uprated the internals almost every weekend. If the box was truely original, driving at modist speed would seem very wise.

[kayemod]

Be interested to know the history of the chassis.

Easiest way to find out is to rub through the paint on the monocoque, see how many different colours you go through before you hit metal.

[f1steveuk]

"Like counting the rings in a cut down tree to age it!"

[arttidesco]

Just found this list of colour schemes for the 2-4-0 and to answer Barry's question from another thread and Alansart's question on this thread the Beta New Hero colours are as the car appeared when Howden Ganley drove it.

One slightly perplexing thing is as the 2 4 0 appeared at Silverstone it was fitted with Roy Lane hillclimb size side radiators which must have struggled to keep the engine cool on the kind of runs encountered in the Grand Prix Masters event ?

[James Murray]

As a March it will have a long and mixed history.

Adding the 6 wheel gearbox and rear end would be an easy job, a few hours work if it is all together. So little is lost, apart from historical provinance. I remember when Roy Lane was running his 6 wheeler, watching Antony and John, his mechanics change driveshafts and gears was a sight I will never forget.

However I would love to know what was inside the box at Silverstone, Roy uprated the internals almost every weekend. If the box was truely original, driving at modist speed would seem very wise.

I'm not doubting that its not difficult to fit the transmission but getting it to work might be. Motor racing is difficult enough on a good day with only 4 wheels! Would love to know the provenance of the chassis. My understanding was the car which Roy had has been converted back to 4 wheel config and is/was owned by Abba Kogan and prior to that my friend Dave Abbott and is in blue/yellow peterson livery.

[alansart]

Just found this list of colour schemes for the 2-4-0 and to answer Barry's question from another thread and Alansart's question on this thread the Beta New Hero colours are as the car appeared when Howden Ganley drove it.

Just proves that one shouldn't rely on one's memory. Nice find Artti

[LotusElise]

I thought it was going quite well on Saturday

Me too. It started right at the back and made up quite a few places very quickly.

I thought the commentator described it as an ex-hillclimb car - did anyone else hear that?

[James Murray]

Yes Roy Lane hillclimbed one as mentioned previously however it was converted back to a 4 wheel car and is now owned by Abba Kogan I think. Dave Abbott who owned it prior to Kogan told me the car he owned was at one point a six wheeler. Obviously Dave could be wrong but if he is correct and Kogan still has the car and the other one is in a museum then the car at Silverstone is unlikely to be one of the original 6 wheels cars, but could obviously be a genuine 761 converted and if so does anyone know which one it is, there were only 8 built I think.

[Ted Walker]

That car is not the RoyLane car . I think its a complete made up thing. Where did Howden race one?????

[Thundersports]

I had a look for a chassis number but there wasn't one, I assume it was a spare tub.

[cheapracer]

If you had a 761 why would you ruin it and convert it to this.......

Because it's way more interesting.

What a very silly-looking car that really is!

Rear wheels are too far apart, that show car and the Williams look better.

[f1steveuk]

Where did Howden race one?????

Don't think he did, but I recall reading that he was entrusted with driving it at it's launch.

[mfd]

Don't think he did, but I recall reading that he was entrusted with driving it at it's launch.

On that link, Steve, it says he tested it with Doug Shierson Racing - so in the US perhaps

[Tony Matthews]

I have just remembered that I did an 'artist's impression' of the six-wheeler for Robin Herd, who came to my house to collect the artwork. It showed the car in First National City Bank colours...

[Giraffe]

Don't think he did, but I recall reading that he was entrusted with driving it at it's launch.

I've asked Howden what he recollects. Tony Smith (owner) & son Jeremy (driver) give the car a good report in today's Autosport & say unsurprisingly that it's got "loads of grip"!

[f1steveuk]

On that link, Steve, it says he tested it with Doug Shierson Racing - so in the US perhaps

That's what you get for going by memory!

[David McKinney]

ISTR a Uk restoration/preparation company built a six-wheeler from a four-wheeler for an Italian customer about ten years ago. It was neither the works prototype nor the Roy Lane hillclimb car. Perhaps this is what's now turned up?

[Gerald Swan]

OK, my turn to use my unreliable memory .

I think the original 6-wheeler was 761T that March sold to Brian Henton as a new car but it was in fact a Brambilla 741 (I found Beta orange overspray inside the monocoque) - updated to 751 - updated to 761. I had it in the Brian Henton British Racing Team colours. I restored it for the owner, Lew Wright, and he had it painted in the Peterson blue and yellow colours. Lew knew Ronnie had never raced it but it had been a test hack for March so there was a fair chance Peterson might have driven it and Lew was always honest about its history. I think this was the car that David Abbott then owned.

[PAUL S]

The 6 wheeler rear end came up for sale on racecarsdirect a couple of years ago, so possibly this was used to convert a 4 wheeler

[Thundersports]

The 6 wheeler rear end came up for sale on racecarsdirect a couple of years ago, so possibly this was used to convert a 4 wheeler

I think that is what happend having talked to peaple about it

[Giraffe]

I've asked Howden what he recollects. Tony Smith (owner) & son Jeremy (driver) give the car a good report in today's Autosport & say unsurprisingly that it's got "loads of grip"!

A quick note this morning from Howden....

"I did all the testing on the March 6-wheeler . Quite a few photos
pop up of me testing it at Silverstone in the pouring rain".


Possibly more to follow.....

Edited by Giraffe, 29 July 2011 - 05:30.

[Giraffe]

A quick note this morning from Howden....

Possibly more to follow.....

"I tested the 6-wheeler three or four times. I think once at Goodwood and the
other times at Silverstone. There were a few teething problems with the
transmission - but eventually it all worked OK.
I do not recall Max ever asking me to go easy on the power. In fact the
last test in the pouring rain at Silverstone I used full acceleration without
encountering any traction problems. Quite impressive . Roy Lane called me
and asked about that aspect ( and its tight turning characteristics ) before
he did the deal with March.
Yes I saw the car at the Festival. I did comment that it was the first time
I had ever seen it going round a circuit. All the other occasions I was in the
driving seat !
I will send you a photo which is relevant".

Edited by Giraffe, 29 July 2011 - 05:41.

[Barry Boor]

O.k, so we konw it did appear with that strange colour scheme.

My next question is, why?

[Ted Walker]

Barry I agree. It should be plain white (as tested) or Guyson colours as used by Roy Lane !!!!

[D-Type]

But isn't a lot of "historic" racing about "what might have been"? Offhand I can think of (in no particular order) Kieft-Godiva Climax, Lotus XVI with revised rear track, 1.2 litre Lotus XI's, 1275cc Austin A35's, 3.8 litre Jaguar D-Types, Mk1 saloons & Tojeiros, late model DFV's in early cars, 3-litre Bentleys with 4.4 blower, Speed Six and 8-litre engines, Porsche 356's with 911 underpinnings, etc etc.

[arttidesco]

O.k, so we konw it did appear with that strange colour scheme.

My next question is, why?

In particular what was Douglas Shierson Racing involvement, around that time I believe Howdy Holmes was doing F Atlantic races with the team.