15 replies to this topic

[Kvadrat]

Hi all, I'm a rookie in F1 history and try to learn more. Statistics and races descriptions are interesting but I try to learn details beyond just race report about who won the start, who led the race, and what happened to some drivers.
I live in Russia and have been F1 fan since 1986 season. There're no so much books here as they're in major F1 countries. I collected several thousands of pictures, statistics and race reports. But these all can't answer some questions. May I ask you all?
I’ve got some questions on 1950 season.
1. I noticed that there were many drivers who participated at only few or even one Grand Prix. Was it important for them to race in World Championship round or they saw in Championship races just an usual one? I guess that was a time when professional or amateur drivers chose events to race among many not related races in various cars types. In 1950 some of Grand Prix class races were held under championship status. So what? There were still many other races and drivers might choose those ones which could be comfortable for them to reach the track.
2. All championship races were in Europe except of Indy-500. World championship would be confessed in America only in a decade. So what for World Championship organizers included Indy-500 in championship calendar?
3. How drivers got their car numbers? Did races organizers use various orders and regulations to give numbers? Why there were only even numbers in all rounds after British GP?
4. I heard Alfa Romeo was best organized team in the first championship. But it wasn’t the only one. Scuderia Ferrari, Equipe Gordini, Officine Alfieri Maserati were also factory teams. The rest of the teams were just private ones. May be some of them weren’t TEAMS but just a driver with his car and a couple of mechanics?
5. Why Scuderia Ferrari skipped 1950 British GP?
Are these questions difficult or may be too simple?

[ensign14]

Hello Kvadrat and welcome! I can at least start with some answers before those more qualified come onto the board:

1. I think you're absolutely right. There were many non-Championship events which were important. In fact, the Championship itself does not seem to have been seen as being as important as it later became. When Farina won at Italy, thus clinching the title, the fact that he had won the championship was mentioned in 1 paragraph! The Championship, at least initially, seems to have been a secondary consideration behind ease of attending a race and starting money, which could tempt a driver further afield.

2. You almost answered your own question! Tomake it a 'World' championship, the governing body (then called AIACR) needed an event outside Europe, otherwise it would have been a European championship. So they chose Indy, where European drivers had been successful in the past, in the hope (a) the Europeans would be tempted to go there again and (b) to tempt the Americans over to Europe. (Jimmy Murphy won the 1921 French GP in an Indy Duesenberg.)

It did not work, although, ironically, the Indy 500 ceased to be a Championship round in 1960, and European cars returned in 1961!

3. Good question. It was up to the organizers; one year at the British GP (1952?) the numbers were allocated in alphabetical order of car name (Alta no. 1, Aston Butterworth no. 2 etc). Otherwise it may be in order of entry, or expected finishing order. Only in 1973 did numbers become standardized. (Also, numbers sometimes changed between practice and the race, to prevent people selling unofficial programmes.)

The even numbers seems to have been a Continental European thing (although the British GP used int in 1955 and 1959), perhaps to avoid 'unlucky' numbers like 13 and 17, but in practice sessions cars would use odd numbers. Otherwise I have no idea!

4. Yes. One of the German entrants of the 1950s (Ernst Klodwig) apparently drove his racecar to the Nuerburgring! Tony Crook had a Cooepr sports car, with number plates and all, which could be entered in Formula 2 races by taking off the midguards and other drivers must have had the same.

5. I think they simply weren't ready. I think they entered but did not arrive.

This is at least a start - wait for the onslaught!

And for a fuller story, try Adriano Cimarosti's book 'The Complete Story of Grand Prix Motor Racing', which is pretty decent and accurate.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by ensign14
4. Yes. One of the German entrants of the 1950s (Ernst Klodwig) apparently drove his racecar to the Nuerburgring! Tony Crook had a Cooepr sports car, with number plates and all, which could be entered in Formula 2 races by taking off the midguards and other drivers must have had the same.

Just in case the question never comes up again, I post here the following picture (please note that the 'twin jugs' on the pedestrian are actually SUs... relating to another part of the story this cartoon accompanied) :



This may well be a cartoon, but the fact is that Neville Renshaw of Wahgunyah on the NSW/Victoria border (not far from Albury, across the river from Corowa) owned a Type 43 Cooper that was registered for road use. This was in the mid-sixties, and the car had a Peugeot 403 engine fitted... along with cycle guards and headlights!

It's said that the lack of a starter motor was no problem, there was always a crowd gathered around the car when Neville drove into town, he could always rope in some pushers.

This car is, incidentally, on the missing list. Its remains were raffled off after a subsequent owner, Bill Stephens, was killed in it at Hume Weir circuit... where it ran without the cycle guards and headlights.

[fines]

Originally posted by Kvadrat
5. Why Scuderia Ferrari skipped 1950 British GP?

They were quite busy preparing cars for a Formula 2 race in Belgium... You see, a VERY different world back then!

[st59cz]

If i remenber corectly first Formula Ford Lotus (51?) was exhibited as road-going car, with wigs and lights as on picture above...

[Michael Müller]

The Scuderia Ferrari in fact opted for the Grand Prix de Mons, a F2 race at the same weekend. We have to see their situation in 1950, already in 1949 their F2 cars had been more or less unbeatable, and this was the same in 1950. F1 was something else, although the double-stage supercharger DOHC engine was finally introduced at the end of the 1949 season, their cars still had not the same class than the Alfettas. They tried various technical solutions in 1950, longer wheelbase, then again somewhat shorter, DeDion axle, sleeker bodywork, and of course also the new Lampredi big block atmospherical engine. Their general impression in spring and summer 1950 was that the GP49 supercharged car was a dead end street and unable to beat the Alfas, and the final version of the 375 was only ready for Monza in autumn. Therefore their F1 entries could simply be considered as test runs, and no serious attempt to win. Contrary to that, in F2 the victories could be achieved rather simple, and each price money was collected by Enzo with thanks to finance the F1 development.

[Frank de Jong]

Originally posted by st59cz
If i remenber corectly first Formula Ford Lotus (51?) was exhibited as road-going car, with wigs and lights as on picture above...

Indeed it was a Lotus 51, complete with lights, mudguards and licence plates. Nick Brittan himself was stopped by the Police near Hyde Park; but the car was perfectly road-legal.

[Kvadrat]

Thank you very much for answering!
So situation in motor racing at the end of 40-th and beginning 50-th was the following: there were well organized factory teams, private teams which bought other manufacturers cars and entered various races, small private teams which built their own cars, and a drivers who bought or leased cars and entered occasional events. There's no any important championship so all these teams and drivers chose those races to participate according their wishes to get glory or win money. It didn't matter if there's F1 or F2 or sportscar race.
Alfa entered all the championships rounds so it did realize that newborn championship is important, didn’t it? And when World Championship became popular and famous? Did it only after 1953 season when manufacturers got ready to build real F1 cars?
I know there was so called free formula allowed to start any type of car. How much its event were in early 50-th? I guess there came a time when all motor racing was divided into particular car classes and Formula Libre died.
And last question for today. Is it possible to find out ways of giving entry numbers for all races?

[Roger Clark]

When the world championship was started it was built around what were generally regarded as the most important races. Grand Prix racing had, of course been going on for many years before that. THe importance of the championship increased gradually over the years, and I find it difficult to say when it became of such overwhelming importance as it is today, probably some time in the 70s. Even in the 50s, serious teams such as Mercedes-Benz and Vanwall concentrated purely on the championship races. Smaller, less well funded, teams would race wherever they could negotiate sufficient starting money.

Formula Libre was really a device to allow more cars to race. In the 1950s there were far fewer racing cars than there are today, and Formula Libre was a way of ensuring full fields. This was particularly true in Britain during the early 50s when interest in racing was high but the cars available were few and of varied engine size. Later in the decade, when Cooper, Lotus and others started producing cars in relatively large numbers the popularity, and the need, for Forlmula Libre reduced.

[Kvadrat]

Thank you.
Here are another questions.
How much was entry payment and prize money? Was first quite little figure to find by private entrents and was second enough for teams to cover all expenses? How much money adverticers gave to race organizers for track advertising boards? Was motor racing a kind of business? Were races commercial events?
Thank you beforehand.

[Yves]

Originally posted by Roger Clark
THe importance of the championship increased gradually over the years, and I find it difficult to say when it became of such overwhelming importance as it is today, probably some time in the 70s.

Easy answer, Roger : it's at the time that Bernie rapped the baby ;)

Welcome on board, Vladimir ...

I have also lot of questions for you (and probably not alone ;) ) :

If F1 and other occidental motor racing was totally unknown in your country before the perestroïka, motor racing in the USSR is still totally unknown for the overinformed occidental population.
So if you could learn us of all type of meccanical racing activity behind the iron wall, you are welcome ...
For myself, I read a few on ice motorcycle races where russians were successfull.
I also heard about modified stock cars races, more or less underground organized.

But do you have any informations on motor racing in Russia before and after 1917 ?

And what about the current situation ? Every body probably learn recently about a russian candidate for a F1 seat (he just ran a test this week) and on the very recent three years commitment for Gazprom but what about the hiden part of the iceberg ?

Y.

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by Kvadrat
Thank you.
Here are another questions.
How much was entry payment and prize money? Was first quite little figure to find by private entrents and was second enough for teams to cover all expenses? How much money adverticers gave to race organizers for track advertising boards? Was motor racing a kind of business? Were races commercial events?
Thank you beforehand.

Start money depended very much on the race organiser, the driver and the car and team - the bigger a draw someone was and therefore the bigger a crowd they were likely to attract, the more they were likely to receive. Various factors like fame, success, local interest, or just how unusual a particular car was often affected how much entries were paid - or even whether they were accepted or not!

Start money explains a lot of mysteries - like why teams would occasionally miss championship rounds for seemingly minor races, and how a whole raft of privateers managed to keep running in various formulae through to the late sixties. It also explains quite a lot of "Retired: Lap 1"s -- the term "Starting Money Special" refers to a car cobbled together to do just enough to collect start money

It was certainly possible for small teams like HWM to survive the continental season largely on start and prize money - for a while at least. By picking and choosing the non-championship races one attended (look for good start money in big races, and good prize money in ones where the works teams stayed away) it was generally possible for a privateer to scrape along without having to reach too deeply into their pockets.

Racing's always been a business for some of the participants.

pete

[Kvadrat]

Sorry Yves and petefenelon, I hadn’t been checking my thread for months and didn’t reply you. Well, now it’s time to do this and continue early motor racing research.

Yves, motor racing in Soviet Union is quite difficult question for me because I haven’t got much publications so I need time to read books and magazines. But it’s also interesting for me.

By the way there’s special thread called Soviet F1 Pilot. May be you’ll find something interesting for you there.

Now I can give you some basic information.

During the Soviet era there were USSR motor racing championship inside the country and most important international competition for Eastern commonwealth called The Socialist Countries Friendship Cup. It consisted of several races in countries like USSR, GDR, CSSR, Poland, Bulgaria.

Every motor racing event in Soviet Union and in Friendship Cup always consisted of at least two races which were one for racing cars and another for touring ones. In mid-seventies F3 was changed by new Formula Vostok (East) which became major racing cars class for next 20 years. Also there were usually several touring cars classes.

By 1991 when USSR collapsed and was split into 15 independent countries racing cars part of the Soviet Union motor racing championship included Formula Vostok and Formula 1600 races.

1992 was the hardest season for Russian racers because all useful ex-Soviet tracks were left outside Russia in Ukraine, Latvia and Belorussia. All they had were old FV and F1600 car. No new cars, no tracks, no enough money because of economical troubles in the country. Motor racing enthusiasts had to visit Latvian F1300 and F1600 Amber Ring competition and five stage polish F1600 championship. But such a travels did cost quite much money. Inside Russia itself only two speed records events were held in May and September. Racers had to do it to keep shape. Finally, there’s another forgotten kind of motor sports. Hill Climb was held in Yalta but racing cars did not participate.

In 1993, old circuit in St. Petersburg called Nevskoe Koltso (Neva Ring) was restored and used as the first one stage Russian motor racing championship venue. FV and F1600 were still in use.

In 1994, the same championship was held at the same track. Another step forward was creating of temporary street circuit in Moscow before the main building of Moscow University. It was used for exhibition races during The City Day including united FV and F1600 race.

In 1995, FV was dropped and temporary F1300 was introduced for former FV cars (Estonia models). Russian championship increased to 2 rounds held in Moscow street circuit and at temporary airfield circuit in Belorussian Vitebsk. Why not St. Petersburg? They refused.

Moscow circuit also became new ASPAS Shell Cup competition venue.

Finally Russian Automobile Federation announced motor racing development plans. Their major point was introducing of F3 as highest national racing cars class.

In 1996, several European F3 cars were bought and one new Russian Astrada F3 car was built. Astrada appeared only at the first round of three of Russian championship starting along with F1600 cars. Nevskoe Koltso returned to the championship while former automobile industry test track in Dmitrov near Moscow was adopted for motor racing.

Moscow open championship for Rothmans Cup (former ASPAS Shell Cup) became alternative and more developed 3 stage competition. More F3 cars were together on the grid with F1600 ones.

So 1996 was the first F3 season in Russia.

In 1997, more F3 cars entered both national championship and Rothmans ASPAS Cup as well as new Open St. Petersburg Championship. There always were different races for F1600 and F3 cars. In Russian championship various cars allowed to start in F3 races to increase the grid. And first real F3 races were held in Rothmans ASPAS Cup. That’s new step forward.

1998 is the last season of my research. ASPAS Cup got new sponsor and became Lukoil ASPAS Cup. It’s organizers dropped F1600. Former F1600 cars were allowed to start in F3 races as separately counted so called F3 League N.

National championship increased to 6 rounds using new circuit at Khodynka in Moscow. There were still separated or united F3 and F1600 races.

[Bladrian]

I never realised I knew so little about motor racing in the East ...... I wonder how many other countries have motor racing programmes that are basically unknown in the West. India? China? Big populations - do they, or did they, have any racing endeavours we're unaware of?

And thanks to our Russian friend for the detailed explanations.

[Catalina Park]

Originally posted by st59cz
If i remenber corectly first Formula Ford Lotus (51?) was exhibited as road-going car, with wings and lights as on picture above...

[Eric McLoughlin]

Those front wings look amazingly like they came from a Lotus 7!