16 replies to this topic

[Henri Greuter]

Hi folks,

Was asked something I can't answer, perhaps any of you can fill me in?

For the '58 Monzanapolis Maserati built a car raced by Stirling Moss, sponosred by the Eldorado Ice cream company.
The car was entered for the Indy 500 in '59 but DNQ with Ralph Liguori driving.

I was asked if the Eldorado has been driven anywhere else besides Monza '58 and Indy '59. I really don't know the answer. I would assume not because in Europe there was no formula for which the car was eligible and in the USA the car was too slow and unsuitable for dirttrack racing and hardly any other paved tracks used within the USAC series.

Anybody willing to tell me the answer so I can pass it on?

Thanks

Henri Greuter

[Vitesse2]

According to Pritchard's Maserati: a History, no. However, Bertocchi apparently tested it over 600 miles at Indy, running at an average speed of 134mph, which would have put it in the first four of the 1959 '500'.

It was then sold in Brazil, where it was (presumably) raced, before Colin Crabbe bought it in the early 70s.

[Henri Greuter]

Hi Vitesse2

Quick reply!
Thanks a lot. I didn't know about the testruns either, so many thanks.

Henri

[dretceterini]

Yes it did run more than once!

It ran in red livery one year, and than in white sponsored by Eldorado ice cream!

I don't remember if the red or white car came first. The years were 1958 and 1959 at the Monzanapolis 500...

Cralo Brianza (ABC models in Italy) makes 1/43rd scale hand-made miniatures of both versions.

Stu

[cabianca]

I am not usually one to dispute Dr. Etceterini, but the El Dorado only competed in the 1958 500 Miglia di Monza. In 1957, the only Maseratis involved in the Race of Two Worlds were a Sports 450S and a 250F fitted with a 3.5L V-12. Neither qualified. The only non-American cars in the 1957 race were the three Ecurie Ecosse D-Jaguars. There may be a model of the El Dorado painted in red, but it is not a model of the car when it ran at Monzapolis in 1957.

[fines]

It was red when it practiced at the brickyard!

[dretceterini]

OK...no problem.

According to the model company, it ran in red one year and in Eldorado Ice cream livery the next. I thought, being Italian, that they should know. Was it the SAME car that was red, or is it just a car that looks very similar?

Stu

[cabianca]

Same car at Monza and Indy. By time it got to Indy, it was a Tipo 420/58. Tried to qulify at Indy on race #12 in 1959. Driver was Ralph Liguori. Not fast enough. Now owned by Panini Brothers. Car was at Monterey for the Maserati Year, restored to 1957 Monzapolis livery.

[Roger Clark]

Originally posted by Vitesse2
According to Pritchard's Maserati: a History, no. However, Bertocchi apparently tested it over 600 miles at Indy,

Is Pritchard saying that Bertocchi drove it at Indy?

[Vitesse2]

Originally posted by Roger Clark


Is Pritchard saying that Bertocchi drove it at Indy?

Yes - page 283:

"Bertocchi tested the car himself at Indianapolis and in all it covered 600 miles at an average of 134 mph ..."

[Doug Nye]

I find this claim for Bertocchi questionable in the extreme - he was enormously proud of having been faster around Modena than Fangio, Behra, and Moss (true or not, he would jab his muscular great thumb against his chest and say, in response to his own question, "Who was fastest around Modena?" - "IO!!!" - but 600 miles around Indy at 134mph - I doubt that Bertocchi would even have had the time to spare, even if he had been in the US at the time...

DCN

[Vitesse2]

That's why I was very careful to attribute that to Pritchard. While his Maserati book is a pretty good general historical outline, there have been several occasions here when his detail has been found to be (shall we say) less than accurate

I await David McKinney's opinion

[Don Capps]

I am looking at a picture of the Maserati with Ralph Liguori at the wheel and another with Luigi Zanetti, Filippo Theodoli, and Guarino Bertocchi sitting together -- Bertocchi in soiled overalls naturally....

The #12 El Dorado Italia Special is described as "red, yellow numbers, white lettering, black trim."

Entrant -- Scuderia El Dorado

The #12 car was in garage 57 in Gasolina Alley

08 May -- Zanetti & Bartocchi arrive at the Speedway with the Eldorado Special
10 May -- "Guarino Bertocchi took the Eldorado Maserati for a shakedown run...."
11 May -- Ralph Liguori does some practice laps
13 May -- Liguori passes 120 test in the Eldorado Special
14 May -- Liguori passes 125 test
15 May -- Liguori passes driver's test
24 May -- Qualifying speed 136.395mph, slowest qualifying speed 141.215mph...

[cabianca]

Think we can fairly safely say that Pritchard must have been listening to Bertocchi late in the evening at the bar in the Albergo Real. For someone totally unfamiliar with oval racing to average one mile per hour slower than the car's four lap average qualifying run by an experienced roundy-rounder like "Ralphie the Racer" would seem improbable at best. Such a run would have taken almost four and a half hours and would have involved a few fueling stops. Anyone with an above-average interest in Indy, including me, has read the Indianapolis Star for the complete month of May for any year they are interested in. I haven't read the 1959 May issues of the Indy Star in some time, but I sure as hell would have remembered a feat like that. You can be sure it would have gotten a lot of ink since the winning average in 1959 was only 135.857 and only five drivers averaged over 134.

[Don Capps]

Michael, I went through the Clymer annual and whatever else I could find from that year and no mention of the long run by Bertocchi, just that he drove it some in shakedown spins. Certainly such a feat would have been mentioned in the day-by-day and I read it thru several times. Ditto in any contemporary stories.

[David McKinney]

I agree that Pritchard's Maser books are not the most detailed, but you're doing him an injustice in blaming him for saying Bertocchi completed 600 miles at 134mph. That is based on vitesse 2's misquoting the passage later quoted correctly by vitesse2 ;)

[Vitesse2]

**removes bullet from foot**

Yes - you're right there David! I misread it as Bertocchi having done 600 miles. Sorry to put everyone to all that trouble!