Where are they now? On the web! Options

[Richie Jenkins]

Hello all,
As many of you are aware, I've been busy lately scurrying away working at updating my WATN thread into a more coherent, easy to use guide. Whilst the original WATN thread has grown & served it's purpose beyond all my hopes, it had got rather unwieldly at near 500 posts.
Thanks to Allen Brown (and thanks too to Jamie, aka Kuwashima, who offered as well) this dream has become a reality.

http://www.oldracingcars.com/bydriver/watn.asp

Now all the info (plus a few extras) from the WATN thread is in a far more easier tableaux, I'm sure you will all agree. It includes Formula 1 World Championship Drivers 1950-2002 & F1 World Championship non-qualifiers, starters 1950-2002.
It also includes Indianapolis 500 starters & Indianapolis 500 non-qualifiers or entrants for the periods 1950-1960, when the race was part of the World Championship. To my knowledge, this is the only place you can find all the drivers in one listing. The very last category has still many gaps, so if there are people who know information - maybe this will encourage them to post it now it's easier to find!

A couple of guides & notes & a few pre-empted answers:

Allen wrote in a e-mail to me a few points will be useful to yourselves for searching:

Clicking on the letters produces a list of all drivers whose surnames start
with that letter. It starts with all those starting with an "A". I have
listed De Angelis under "D" rather than "A" (and van der Poele under "V"
instead of "P", etc), as per your list but it may be more user-friendly for
me to list them in both places.
The search is very basic but we can add other things if people want them.
It looks for any surname that contains the letters you type in. Try
searching on "zz" to see what it is doing - you just get Barbazza,
Mazzacane, Pizzonia, Pozzi, Regazzoni and Taramazzo.

For now, I've added a link directly
to the existing thread so people can join in.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Due to spreadsheet demands, I decided to do De Angelis under D. It isn't too difficult to search for fellows but better to make you aware
Allen's links etc. will hopefully help you find stuff quicker & easier.

Now, re. the data.

I may have made mistakes - no-one's perfect! I have spent many hours on this so I have, I think covered most mistakes - they may be tiny ones, like spellings or big bloopers on dates, so please let me know any mistakes you find. Otherwise, I can't update them unless I notice them myself.
If you query a date, place etc. let me know. There may be good reason I've chosen that date. I have had to sit down & think about how to incorporate all the new data with all the data I had originally. In some cases, i've made a decision which others may find incorrect. Please feel free to challenge me on any dates you query.
(* Note - Brian Shawe-Taylor's birthdate - I chose the actual date of birth in the end due to spreadsheet demands - as David Holland posted both the date & the follwoing day were celebrated as birthdays in the Shawe-Taylor household!)

Nationalities, Years Contested & GP's are not that important - just a little extra. I have discounted non-starts (Ie parade lap problems etc.) & included non-qualifications in years contested. This is by no means a comprehensive guide - more a general guide. Feel free to make me aware of many big blunders but I am unlikely to change the contested years & GP total, except for current racers.

The GP total for current racers was correct AT TIME OF ORIGINAL ENTRY. With future updates, I will probably update their totals at that respective time, so they will be correct for the start of the 2003 season.

Where Are they Now is still very, very important to me. It's the only thing that sets aside this project from other wonderful tomes. Any incorrect/out of date/new info, please, again, let me know.


This is not completely definitive - it may never be. I can only hope to make it as accurate and as updated as I can - so any help will be always appreciated

Any Comments, suggestions etc. will be very welcome. I am hoping to make this thread a sticky (I will PM Don very shortly) so this makes it easier to find for all users.

Updates will be posted, I anticipate, in this thread. Updates on the site will be regular. I do not know yet how frequent they will be - depends really on the info. If there's a lot of updates, then I'll change it more frequently

I think I've covered it all (I bet I've forgotten something!) May I take the time to thank you all for your support & help so far & a extra big thank you to Allen Brown for making this happen. He deserves your gratitude for making the work so accessible for all to use - from esteemed historian to curious lurker

Enjoy it!

[Doug Nye]

WOW!

What a wonderful effort - well done fellers....

DCN

[MrAerodynamicist]

Suggestion: Would it be a good idea to include a "Date Updated"/"As of" column? Obviously for somebody like Clark that's it, but for any of the drivers still alive, what they are up to could change at any time. Hence in these cases, it might be a good to have some sort of indication of how recent the info is?

[Richie Jenkins]

Good idea, Mr. A. I knew there was something! The only table I know like this - WATN for Reading FC footballers has a updated on... I see what Allen thinks. Although, ultimately ANY changes on any of the data will be posted here first for convienence.

[Vitesse2]

Easiest way to do that is just to add a disclaimer on each page that all info is believed correct as of November 25th 2002 and then datemark any updates or alterations.

Excellent stuff Richie! I may have a few bits and pieces for you ...

[Richie Jenkins]

Ooh yeah, one other thing. The old thread used to be a query for some drivers who didn't fit the above parameters. I would hope that this new thread can still meet this function as a spin-off from this porject may be a F3000 WATN if time & work allows next year.
I have noticed one mistake actually, caused by my spreadsheet elongating some words for convienece - Otto Stuppacher is known as that - not Ottorino. That will be retyped later when I do other updates like Bob Gregg's birthdate & a few pieces of new info in the last day or two. Just thought I'd stop confusion before it started - now there's a Murrayism!

[Don Capps]

Richie, Ya' Done Good. I am happy we at TNF could help.

[fines]

[Allen Brown]

Originally posted by MrAerodynamicist
Suggestion: Would it be a good idea to include a "Date Updated"/"As of" column? Obviously for somebody like Clark that's it, but for any of the drivers still alive, what they are up to could change at any time. Hence in these cases, it might be a good to have some sort of indication of how recent the info is?

Yes - I was trying to figure out how to do that. The most straightforward way is for me to edit the page every time Richie sends me a new spreadsheet - but sooner or later I'm bound to forget. I'll try to find a way for the computer to do it for me.

All other suggestions welcome. I'd like it to link through to each driver's F1 history but my race results database only covers 1966-1985. I'll see if I can beg a fuller database from somewhere.

Allen

[dmj]

Precious!

[Mickey]

This is great, Richie!

Oh I notice a small error in Ivan Capelli's profile: Long-time commentator for the Italian TV digital channel. Actually it's RAI, the national channel with terrestrial coverage, not the digital one.

[Prostfan]

Great work

BTW, Edgar Barth's birthplace must be Herold-Erzgebirge

[Bladrian]

Obviously a labour of love, and uniquely useful. Wonderful stuff.

[Barry Lake]

Originally posted by MrAerodynamicist
Suggestion: Would it be a good idea to include a "Date Updated"/"As of" column?

Great work Richie (et al).

I agree wholeheartedly with the above suggestion. Especially for corrections to errors found.

[Holger Merten]

I agree Richie,

very good work.

[Allen Brown]

Originally posted by Richie Jenkins
Good idea, Mr. A. I knew there was something! The only table I know like this - WATN for Reading FC footballers has a updated on... I see what Allen thinks. Although, ultimately ANY changes on any of the data will be posted here first for convienence.

I didn't read Mr A's suggestion properly - I was thinking of a single date to show the last time the data was updated rather than an extra column, which is much, much easier. Yes, Richie, if you add an extra column to your next spreadsheet, I can easily add an extra column onto the web pages.

It always amuses me to see how my brain works so much better first thing in the morning!

Allen

[David McKinney]

Tremendous result Richie (and Allen)
It's a great resource and one I will be constantly referring to
Some comments after a brief look
On a general note - one or two appearances in demonstrations (Evans, Mansell) surely doesn't justify the term “currently races in historic events”
More specifically:
•Amon - saying that he “tested” suspensions for Toyota discredits his redesign work - “developed” would be a better choice
•Beauman - the Leinster Trophy race was a libre event, not a sportscar race
•Borgudd - I thought we had decided he didn’t play with Abba?
•Brabham - is he really “profoundly” deaf?
•Dumfries - he was Earl of Dumfries when he was racing. His present title is Marquis of Bute
•Dusio - are we sure he was the nominated driver in this event? I thought it was his son Carlo. (Piero had by then emigrated to Argentina)
•Fontes - his surname is Fontes Bayardo
•Gethin - what does “advisement” mean?
•Larretta - surname is Rodriguez Larretta, so he should be under the ‘R’s
•Montgomerie-Charrington - Robin is a common diminutive of Robert, so signing his name like that should be no more surprising than other Roberts signing themselves ‘Rob’ or ‘Bobby’
•Schwelm Cruz - doesn’t need a hiphen

[jarama]

Rodríguez Larreta is with a single "t", if I'm not wrong.

Francisco Godia is dead a few years ago. When I'll find the date I'll let you know.

Carles.

PS: BTW, fantastic job, Richie.

[Leif Snellman]

This one will be added to my page of links immediately!

[Richie Jenkins]

Originally posted by David McKinney
•Dusio - are we sure he was the nominated driver in this event? I thought it was his son Carlo. (Piero had by then emigrated to Argentina)

I've seen nothing to confirm it was Carlo. I was aware of the Gimax son/father question but not this one. Everywhere I've seen says Piero but if you've got firm evidence that it was Carlo not Piero I will change it.

Thanks for the other suggestions, David, Mickey et al. This is the kind of thing I mean - they may strike some people as somewhat petty but it will only help improvement of the site.
By the looks of it, Tuesday will have to be my first update! Btw Gotcha Allen, new column on his way too.

Yep, Carles you're right with the T - I think. Or did I read somewhere that it was just 1 T?

Although, Godia's deathdate is there

[Udo K.]

Great work. Really fantastic to have this source of quick information available.

Thanks to you both

[jarama]

Originally posted by Richie Jenkins
[B

Although, Godia's deathdate is there [/B]

Sorry, Richie, it's been my mistake.

Carles.

[Barry Boor]

Congratulations Richie, this is absolutely superb.

And thanks to Allen for making the space for it.

[Vitesse2]

A couple of bits of pedantry ;)

Brian Gubby - that should be "still runs a garage", rather than "now": in the days when he raced it was a Ford dealership. He now seems to also sell electric vehicles.

Richie Ginther - shouldn't that read "in a camper"?

[David McKinney]

Originally posted by Richie Jenkins
if you've got firm evidence that it was Carlo not Piero I will change it.

No, I don't have firm evidence
My source was a Cisitalia book which I can't put my hands on at the moment. The reason I was (am) not absolutely sure was down to a deserved lack of confidence in my abilities to translate Italian into English. But my recollection is that the book said
1) Piero went to Argentina, and Carlo was left minding things at home
2) Carlo was involved with the development of the 1952 car
3) The car was entered for the 1952 Italian GP
It may be that I jumped to the wrong conclusion. But it is equally believable that people seeing the name "Dusio" alongside the entry would have said, "Ah, yes. Piero" without necessarily being right

Perhaps some of our Italian members can help?

[dmj]

It should be noted that Dumfries aka Marquis of Bute is now fairly active in organizing historic car events.

[Dan Axelsson]

Really Great job, Richie and Allen!!!

Looks great and seems easy to navigate in, this is surely a success.

Now I’m busy, must take a closer look.

Kind regards,

[David McKinney]

Originally posted by dmj
It should be noted that Dumfries aka Marquis of Bute is now fairly active in organizing historic car events.

....if staging one informal gathering at his stately home can so be described

[F1master]

great resource

btw pedro lamy doesn't race in the dtm, but in the german V8Star touring car series for the zakspeed team. he also won last year's nürburgring 24h in a viper

same goes for johnny cecotto. that he's largely taking a back-seat is not quite right. he won the V8Star drivers title in 2002 and it looks as though he will rejoin the opel team in the dtm next year. i think it was cecotto who said in a recent interview that he must continue racing because of losing a lot of money with declining stocks

[dmj]

Originally posted by David McKinney

....if staging one informal gathering at his stately home can so be described

Well, he seems to have great plans for that event... We'll see what will become of it.

[Richie Jenkins]

Right - very shortly I will send Allen the latest spreadsheet. Whenever he gets a chance to do it it will have the following updates;

Niki Lauda's sacking as Jaguar principal.
Bob Gregg's birthdate
Massimo Natili's retirement from his garage business.
Stuppacher & Nalon spelling corrections
Warwick Brown's info - he now lives near Sydney & runs a flying business
Gene's set switch to Dallara Nissan
Capelli, Barth, Evans, Mansell, de Fillippis, B Unser, D Hill, Ahrens, Mansell, Laretta, Amon, Beauman, Borgudd, J Brabham, Dumfries, Fontes, Gethin, Montgomerie-Charrington, Schwelm Cruz, Gubby, Ginther, Lamy, Cecotto updates as suggested in this thread already
Ingo Hoffman's latest title

and the new column for when I have updated somebody's info.

Feel free to keep chipping in suggestions for how this could be expanded, both the web page & the whole WATN business.
And any queries over anything at all, will always be welcome......

[pc13]

Mário de Cabral doesn't live in Oporto, but in Lisbon. I interviewed him in his house earlier this year, around the time his biography was published.

[borsari]

GREAT JOB, RICHIE !!



MARK

[quintin cloud]

well done Richie

[Richie Jenkins]

The updates are now done after a brief delay, caused entirely by myself, best described as "user error!"
See what you think now the "updated when" is in the columns

One further thing I forgot to add in explanation is that my computer can not do umlauts etc, so I know you could say places are wrong as they don't have umlauts, etc. etc. but I can't do anything about it on my computer, I'm afraid.

Now the updates done the other day are now done as are the new updates, most of them thanks to Dan Axelsson. Although it says 'last updated' I thought it would be good for you to know WHAT has been updated:

Incorrect Spellings or phrasing of Birthplaces/Deathplaces

Alesi, Alliot, Allison, Andersson, Aston, Brabham J, Bussinello, Colombo, de Riu, Drogo, Dusio (d), Estefano (d), Fischer (d), Grignard (d) - but I think I've made another mistake on it, so that will be updated again! , Guelfi, Guglemin, Hailwood, Harris, Ireland, Krakau, Krause (d), Kuhnke, Larrauri, Lederle, Mairesse W, Martini, Oppitzhauser, Palm, Pescarolo, Pollet, Prinoth, Richardson (d), Rosberg, Said, Schumacher M, Schumacher R, Thackwell (WATN), Villoresi (WATN), Taruffi, Tunmer (d), Wurz (Most of the above is a letter or two in the wrong place!)

Incorrect Dates - Birth & Deaths
Barth - b.
Marimon - b. (Thanks to David McKinney)
Ulmen - b.


New Info
de Portago - birthplace
Drake - birthplace
Ongais - birthplace

WATN Info

Jackie Stewart - cancer scare
Cabral - living in Lisbon - thanks Pc13 - my error!
Cheever - less driving from now on


I hope this update format is also useful for you all.

Richard

[Richie Jenkins]

Latest Updates: (Thanks to Dan Axelsson, David Holland, SSDI & Christina Merkel Moran for Harry Merkel's info- thanks to everyone else for their info on the old thread)

Incorrect Spellings or phrasing of Birthplaces/Deathplaces or Incorrect WATN info

Wilson Desire (WATN) - thanks Breadmaster, da Silva Ramos (first name), Ertl & Kling (Birthplace), Grignard (death place), Koinigg (first name changed), Pieterse (birthplace), Whitehead (birthplace), Tunmer (birthplace), Alesi (birthplace), Raby (WATN), Goethals (WATN), Neve (thanks Ettiwed) (user error deleted him by accident!)


Incorrect Dates - Birth & Deaths
Shawe-Taylor (d) - thanks David Holland
Johnson L (DH again - but I've been told that's wrong - so I will change that next update)

New Info
Wilson J - new addition
Theo Fitzau - birthplace
Bucknum - deathdate changed due to SSDI check
Harry Merkel - birthplace & date, deathplace & semi-date & WATN info!

WATN Info

Sato at BAR
Davidson, Bernoldi, de la Rosa - new info regards their F1 futures
Lamy - Dallara Nissan
Takagi - now in IRL
Hakkinen - ice racing


I have got Boesel's info (thanks Joe) & HJ Stuck's info, plus Johnson's revised death date & Montermini's slight career change - they will all be in the next update - depending on new info - either done by the end of 2002 or early 2003.

Cheers All

[fines]

Originally posted by Richie Jenkins
Wilson J - new addition

What? Does that mean Justin has a place ? just in time...

[Richie Jenkins]

Yep, Michael. Justin's got a drive!
There's going to be another update before I go on holiday in the New Year but I'll bring two up now - my annual Christmas Eve check has revealed another death. I've found a death every year on Christmas Eve (largely due to the fact I have more time to check details at this time of year) & this year 'Buzz' Emmett Barton, Indy non-qualifier, is the deceased.
He died on the 17th April 2002, in Kingston, Oklahoma

I've also found Johnny Kay's birthdate (aka John E Kapustinski) - b. 13 May 1919 (birthplace is the same)
He is still alive, living in Berlin, Connecticut, not too far from where he was born. (I have a phone no. for him actually...)

These two will be in the next update. Primilarily of interest to people like Jim T but I know there are others interested in the Indy 500 n-q's.

Happy Christmas!

[Flying Panda]

Not really F1,
but I was wondering if anyone new what Takuya Kurosawa is doing now, and if he raced again after his spinal operation.

[Richie Jenkins]

Originally posted by Flying Panda
Not really F1,
but I was wondering if anyone new what Takuya Kurosawa is doing now, and if he raced again after his spinal operation.

I have no record of him racing since, but it would appear he still lives somewhere in America. Not 100% certain, I must say.