12 replies to this topic

[DOHC]

What is the history of starting procedures?

Today, in F1, we have a formation lap, and a start from a grid. A few decades ago, we have a "dummy grid" some hundred meters back, and once engines were started, the cars rolled up to the grid positions.

There have been other varaints too. Rolling starts and running (Le Mans starts) if we go outside F1. But if we start by sticking to F1, why and when were starting procedures changed?

Anything is of interest here, like grid configurations (3-2-3.. cars abreast, 2-2-2... , and then today's staggered grid), including flags vs lights.

[holiday]

You have something in your mind, havent you?

[Ray Bell]

fines mentioned the Nurburgring warm up lap procedures a few weeks ago... try a search.

[Vitesse2]

We've discussed light signals a couple of times ....

http://www.atlasf1.c...&threadid=41012

http://www.atlasf1.c...&threadid=33931

Dennis David mentions that lights were used at Tripoli - I've seen references to them in 1939 and 1940, but I'm not sure if they were used earlier.

[Holger Merten]

Originally posted by Vitesse2
(...)
Dennis David mentions that lights were used at Tripoli - I've seen references to them in 1939 and 1940, but I'm not sure if they were used earlier.

Richard,

I read in the Caracciola biografie:

"Neubauer informed himself before the start which signal would start the race, the flag by Major Balbo otr the green signal lamp? And he got the answer, that the signal lamp......."

The rest is history of a great sensation by Lang and MB in 1939 in Tripolis.

[Vitesse2]

Lang says the same.

".... Neubauer went by, and I asked him "What counts for the start, the light signal or the flag?" ..... Just before the start he came running, spat on me for luck, as usual, and bellowed in my ear "The light signal counts" ..... all drivers stared at Marshal Balbo at the side of the track, only I stared at the light signal suspended above .... a part of the Press referred to my start as premature, and films showed it clearly; but was it my fault if Marshal Balbo lowered the flag a little too late?"

[Holger Merten]

Yes Richard, do you know some same procedures in the 30s? How was the procedure in other races on the great tracks (Nürburgring, Monza, and so on)?

I think on those "normal road tracks" (Pau, Bremgarten), it was just a flag?

[Vitesse2]

Lang says Bremgarten was still flagged in 39, but says the intervals at Nürburgring were ten seconds rather than the twenty I posted elsewhere (source Posthumus' German GP book)

[Holger Merten]

Okay Richard, I have to look deeper your marked threads, I always thought it was really difficukt for those engines of the silverarrows to wait to long at the start, but, it seemed to be possible.

I was with a filmteam at the "Klausenpass" to make some sequences of the Auto Union C Typ from the "Deutsches Museum" in the early 90s, it was a hard procedure to get the engine to run and than to let it run. A procedure with the plugs (16) and so on

OT:
But nevertheless, if TNF says, there were such signal lamps, than there must be in those sources, you know what I mean.

[fines]

I think the staggered grid was made compulsory in 1980, before that there were a few examples as well (Monaco '75 from memory). 3-2-3 grids were last used in 1973, I think (Dutch GP), the 4-3-4 grid at the German GP in '68 was changed to 3-2-3 due to the weather conditions. Offhand I can't recall later occurences of 4-3-4.


__________________
Stop the terror!

Help making the people of Israel aware that they don't have a future with Ariel Sharon!

Tell your government to support Amram Mitzna for Prime Minister on January 28!

It may well be the last chance for peace and freedom in the Middle East!

[Wolf]

To add to Michael's list '52 Italian GP had 4-4-4 grid, while '54 edition of the same race had 3-3-3 grid... Whether these types of grid were used later, i do not know...

[Vitesse2]

4-4-4 seems to have been the norm at Monza in 1952. It was also used for the Autodrome GP earlier in the year. Presumably they were trying to fill the width of the start/finish straight!

[Holger Merten]

Originally posted by Vitesse2
Lang says Bremgarten was still flagged in 39, but says the intervals at Nürburgring were ten seconds rather than the twenty I posted elsewhere (source Posthumus' German GP book)

I found that it was 60sec, red light, than 15sec before the start yellow light, and than green light for the start at the Nürburgring for 1935. Any other start-lights at that time?