In 1950 Clemente Biondetti built a special on basis of a Ferrari 166 Spider Corsa with a 3.4 ltr Jaguar XK engine. He raced this car during the 1950 Italian Grand Prix, and
also at the 1951 Mille Miglia. Interested in any additional details, especially which 166 SC is was exactly (c/n), when in 1950 the conversion has been done, period photos, and further history.
Biondetti Ferrari-Jaguar Special (merged)
Started by
Michael M
, Jun 21 2000 14:22
39 replies to this topic
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#2
Ray Bell
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Posted 21 June 2000 - 23:22
Working along the lines of the parallel topic of 'making historic cars', this is the type of car that really intrigues me. A Special, something different to the norm.
Yet, in all probability, and you can no doubt tell us, a Ferrari lover has seen it as an aberration and taken it back to original, possibly at horrendous cost.
As a Ferrari-Jaguar it was unique and different and deserving of attention, as a Ferrari it was just one of a number, with some actually sneering at the though of putting the Jag engine into it.
Then you have to ask why? In all probability, the stupid Ferrari engine blew and was going to cost too much to replace...
Yet, in all probability, and you can no doubt tell us, a Ferrari lover has seen it as an aberration and taken it back to original, possibly at horrendous cost.
As a Ferrari-Jaguar it was unique and different and deserving of attention, as a Ferrari it was just one of a number, with some actually sneering at the though of putting the Jag engine into it.
Then you have to ask why? In all probability, the stupid Ferrari engine blew and was going to cost too much to replace...
#4
Huw Jenjin
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Posted 22 June 2000 - 10:51
Did it never occur to anybody that Sr. Biondetti put the Jaguar motor in because he actually thought it was superior?
The motor he fitted was a works engine, taken from the works Competition prototype XK 120 "C" specification,No 043. It was therefor one which would win after running against the best Italian opposition for 24 hrs at Lemans. Indeed while fitted to 120/043, the engine had seen off all italian opposition bar Ascari in the Mille Miglia. Biondetti had a good relationship with the Jaguar factory, and his failure to finish that event in 2nd place was a prime example of competition improving the bread. The 120's conrod broke, and as a result of a drawing of the failure being sent to the works, all con rods were subsequently modified.Biondetti was, I think, the only foreigner to be allocated a works prototype 120.
The Ferrari F2 chassis was substantially modified, and probably owed more to Biondetti than Ferrari, before the 120's works engine and gearbox were fitted. After the abortive Monza event the car was given a Sports body of Biondettis own design and entered for the 1952 Mille Miglia for Pezzolli and Cazzolani. it did not make the first control, for an unrecorded reason.
In truth the car is probably more important to Jaguar history than it was to Ferrari.
The motor he fitted was a works engine, taken from the works Competition prototype XK 120 "C" specification,No 043. It was therefor one which would win after running against the best Italian opposition for 24 hrs at Lemans. Indeed while fitted to 120/043, the engine had seen off all italian opposition bar Ascari in the Mille Miglia. Biondetti had a good relationship with the Jaguar factory, and his failure to finish that event in 2nd place was a prime example of competition improving the bread. The 120's conrod broke, and as a result of a drawing of the failure being sent to the works, all con rods were subsequently modified.Biondetti was, I think, the only foreigner to be allocated a works prototype 120.
The Ferrari F2 chassis was substantially modified, and probably owed more to Biondetti than Ferrari, before the 120's works engine and gearbox were fitted. After the abortive Monza event the car was given a Sports body of Biondettis own design and entered for the 1952 Mille Miglia for Pezzolli and Cazzolani. it did not make the first control, for an unrecorded reason.
In truth the car is probably more important to Jaguar history than it was to Ferrari.
#5
Ray Bell
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Posted 22 June 2000 - 22:31
Okay, so by using the F2 chassis with the Jag engine, he moved the car nicely into F1 with a package that should have been lighter than the Alfas and use a lot less fuel, cost a heap less than a Ferrari equivalent, made practical use of an engine he had on hand, and should have beaten the Lagos hands down.
So what happened to the car in the long term?
So what happened to the car in the long term?
#6
Gerr
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Posted 23 June 2000 - 17:31
From Skilleter's "Jaguar Sports Cars",the chapter on "Jag Specials",page 232.
Clemente Biondetti had built himself a Jaguar special. It was usually entered in events as a Jaguar-Ferrari,but was rather more complex than that.The chassis,of tubular construction,was actually Maserati in origin and was fitted with an XK120 engine. The gearbox,transmission, front suspension and brakes were also XK120, but the whole was clothed in a Ferrari Type 166 body and radiator frontage(possibly from Biondetti's own Type 166)-as "Grand Vitesse" said in "The Motor" at the time "all very confusing!" The car does not appear to have survived.
In "Ferrari,the Sports and Gran Turismo Cars" page 23, the author writes:
On April 3,1948 a Type 166,possibly the third original chassis bodied as an open spyder,was driven to victory in the Targa Florio by Biondetti and Troubetzkoy. The car was then fitted with a berlinetta roof,and Biondetti with Navone won the 1948 Mille Miglia.
Confused? Me too. Do they mean that car was a open wheel "spyder corsa" first, then a full fendered "barchetta", then a coupe "berlinetta"? Or the "barchetta" was the first body which was roofed into a "berlinetta"?
This "barchetta/berlinetta" was bodied by Allemano and Ferrari used Touring to build its "barchettas". Maybe the car was a "spyder corsa" rebodied by Allemano as a private commision, and then the discarded body was used for the special?
Clemente Biondetti had built himself a Jaguar special. It was usually entered in events as a Jaguar-Ferrari,but was rather more complex than that.The chassis,of tubular construction,was actually Maserati in origin and was fitted with an XK120 engine. The gearbox,transmission, front suspension and brakes were also XK120, but the whole was clothed in a Ferrari Type 166 body and radiator frontage(possibly from Biondetti's own Type 166)-as "Grand Vitesse" said in "The Motor" at the time "all very confusing!" The car does not appear to have survived.
In "Ferrari,the Sports and Gran Turismo Cars" page 23, the author writes:
On April 3,1948 a Type 166,possibly the third original chassis bodied as an open spyder,was driven to victory in the Targa Florio by Biondetti and Troubetzkoy. The car was then fitted with a berlinetta roof,and Biondetti with Navone won the 1948 Mille Miglia.
Confused? Me too. Do they mean that car was a open wheel "spyder corsa" first, then a full fendered "barchetta", then a coupe "berlinetta"? Or the "barchetta" was the first body which was roofed into a "berlinetta"?
This "barchetta/berlinetta" was bodied by Allemano and Ferrari used Touring to build its "barchettas". Maybe the car was a "spyder corsa" rebodied by Allemano as a private commision, and then the discarded body was used for the special?
#7
Huw Jenjin
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Posted 23 June 2000 - 23:19
You are probably right in your final assesment.The same car probably had three bodies , just as a Ferrari, a bit like one of those Tamiya radio controlled models!
The bit about the Maserati also has a ring of truth to it too, as the car in its GP and Sports form had many Maserati components. As to which constituted the greater part of the vehicle will probably never be known as the car went through many transformations in a short space of time.
It is indeed a practical demonstration of the pointlessness of giving ancient racing cars pedigrees.(See "Making Historic Racing Cars" thrread).
The Car should probably have been called the Maseratti-Jaguar-Ferrari- Bionddetti-Special, but race programmes were not that wide in those days. Perhaps it should just have been a "Biondetti" or more acurately "camelion" (spell?). As for what happened to the car, I would think it would be easier to trace the results of a mid air aircraft collision.
The bit about the Maserati also has a ring of truth to it too, as the car in its GP and Sports form had many Maserati components. As to which constituted the greater part of the vehicle will probably never be known as the car went through many transformations in a short space of time.
It is indeed a practical demonstration of the pointlessness of giving ancient racing cars pedigrees.(See "Making Historic Racing Cars" thrread).
The Car should probably have been called the Maseratti-Jaguar-Ferrari- Bionddetti-Special, but race programmes were not that wide in those days. Perhaps it should just have been a "Biondetti" or more acurately "camelion" (spell?). As for what happened to the car, I would think it would be easier to trace the results of a mid air aircraft collision.
#8
Ray Bell
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Posted 24 June 2000 - 00:00
You're becoming better and better with your wit, Huge. Looking around Lockerbee might reveal some...
I agree, assigning a pedigree seems pointless, but it comes to the crunch when the dollar values are high, so it's therefore necessary to avoid litigation (or contracts, or lynchings).
I agree, assigning a pedigree seems pointless, but it comes to the crunch when the dollar values are high, so it's therefore necessary to avoid litigation (or contracts, or lynchings).
#9
Michael M
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Posted 26 June 2000 - 13:08
Sorry for late reaction, but was extremely busy over the last couple of days.
Gerr, the Alemano Spyder had nothing to do with Biondetti's special, and it is also not identical with the 1948 MM winning car. Before going back to the original topic, for whose who are interested:
Ferrari # 001S was the 3rd Ferrari built (after # 01C and # 02C), but the first customer car. It was a Tipo 159 (1.9 ltr) Sport with Allemano spyder body (no cycle fender Corsa Spyder), and sold in November 1947 to Count Bruno Sterzi as road car and training car for the Targa Florio 1948. For the TF, Prince Igor Troubetskoy handed his competition car (166 SC #010I) over to his team mate Sterzi, who's car (166 SC #006I) was crashed in practice, and used the muletto 159 Sport # 001S instead, in which he won the Targo Florio (resp. Giro di Sicilia) together with Biondetti. This same car had been used for the MM the same year, driven by Sterzi / Righetti (race # 178) but did not finsh. The 1948 MM winning car was similar to # 001S, but manufactured some months later, hence had already the 166 (2 ltr) engine. It had chassis # 003S, and was also bodied by Allemano, but as a berlinetta coupe. The # 001S spyder was supplied with a hardtop, and by using it it could be easily mixed up with the berlinetta, as the lookalike was nearly identical then. # 003S with race # 16 and road registration "BO 1076" in fact won the 1948 MM with Biondetti / Navone.
The term "barchetta" was never used for 001S, this was introduced only for the next series of cars, the 166 MM bodied by Touring.
Back to the Biondetti Special. Clemente Biondetti in 1948 was team member of Scuderia Inter (financed by Troubetskoy and Sterzi) and raced on various occasions either 166 SC #006I or #010I, both Scuderia Inter cars, or one of SI's sports cars (159 Sport #001S and 166 Sport # 003S). The Scuderia Inter ceased activity end of 1948, and Biondetti raced only sporadically, including another win of the Mille Miglia in a works Ferrari 166 MM together with Salani. For 1950 he joined the Jaguar team, on April 22/23 he finished together with co-driver Bronzoni in a XK 120 the Mille Miglia as 8th, and on June 24/25 he drove one of the new works C-Types together with Leslie Johnson at Le Mans. He was so impressed about the C-type Jaguar that he tried to buy one for the Italian races, but without success. However, at least he managed to get an engine, which he used for his special.
Contrary to Gerr's info the car is still existing today, whether genuine or not I cannot say. It participated in the MM for the last couple of years under his Danish owner, but as far I know it is now in Italian hands. Below photo of the car as entered in the 1999 MM Storica.
Sorry, picture does not work, for those interested here the url for paste copying:
[url]http://www.barchetta...m.report.htm#33 Ferrari entered
The car has a Spyder Corsa body with cycle fenders, very similar to the first Spyder Corsa # 002C, which was owned by Count Besana. Biondetti had a good relation with Besana, he drove # 002C even during the 1949 Senigalia GP. Biondetti had no Ferrari by his own which he could use as basis, but the case file for # 002C reports rebodying by Motta as roadster in 1950, so it may well be that Biondetti bought the Spyder Corsa body from Besana to use it for his special. Most important detail however is whether the chassis was Maserati or Ferrari. SC # 002C was not raced by Besana after 1949, and the purpose of rebodying was to make the car road suitable. So why did Biondetti not buy the whole car, but used only the body? The Maserati chassis had no real technical advantages against that of the 159/166 Spyder Corsa. The last owner of the Biondetti Special claims the chassis to be Ferrari, but no details as e.g. original chassis number are known. The history of this special - as known to me - ends with the 1951 Mille Miglia.
Huw's info that this car was entered for the 1952 Mille Miglia for Pezzoli / Cozzulani is not correct. This was another Biondetti Special nothing to do at all with Ferrari. As Jaguar still refuses to sell a C-Type to Biondetti, he built his own one, using Jaguar engine, drive train, and radiator grill. He intended to enter this car for the 1952 MM, but when Ferrari offered him a works 225 S, he accepted this offer, and handed the C-Type replica over to his friend Pezzoli. Below a photo of the C replica taken during 1993 MM Storica.
[p][Edited by Michael M on 06-26-2000]
Gerr, the Alemano Spyder had nothing to do with Biondetti's special, and it is also not identical with the 1948 MM winning car. Before going back to the original topic, for whose who are interested:
Ferrari # 001S was the 3rd Ferrari built (after # 01C and # 02C), but the first customer car. It was a Tipo 159 (1.9 ltr) Sport with Allemano spyder body (no cycle fender Corsa Spyder), and sold in November 1947 to Count Bruno Sterzi as road car and training car for the Targa Florio 1948. For the TF, Prince Igor Troubetskoy handed his competition car (166 SC #010I) over to his team mate Sterzi, who's car (166 SC #006I) was crashed in practice, and used the muletto 159 Sport # 001S instead, in which he won the Targo Florio (resp. Giro di Sicilia) together with Biondetti. This same car had been used for the MM the same year, driven by Sterzi / Righetti (race # 178) but did not finsh. The 1948 MM winning car was similar to # 001S, but manufactured some months later, hence had already the 166 (2 ltr) engine. It had chassis # 003S, and was also bodied by Allemano, but as a berlinetta coupe. The # 001S spyder was supplied with a hardtop, and by using it it could be easily mixed up with the berlinetta, as the lookalike was nearly identical then. # 003S with race # 16 and road registration "BO 1076" in fact won the 1948 MM with Biondetti / Navone.
The term "barchetta" was never used for 001S, this was introduced only for the next series of cars, the 166 MM bodied by Touring.
Back to the Biondetti Special. Clemente Biondetti in 1948 was team member of Scuderia Inter (financed by Troubetskoy and Sterzi) and raced on various occasions either 166 SC #006I or #010I, both Scuderia Inter cars, or one of SI's sports cars (159 Sport #001S and 166 Sport # 003S). The Scuderia Inter ceased activity end of 1948, and Biondetti raced only sporadically, including another win of the Mille Miglia in a works Ferrari 166 MM together with Salani. For 1950 he joined the Jaguar team, on April 22/23 he finished together with co-driver Bronzoni in a XK 120 the Mille Miglia as 8th, and on June 24/25 he drove one of the new works C-Types together with Leslie Johnson at Le Mans. He was so impressed about the C-type Jaguar that he tried to buy one for the Italian races, but without success. However, at least he managed to get an engine, which he used for his special.
Contrary to Gerr's info the car is still existing today, whether genuine or not I cannot say. It participated in the MM for the last couple of years under his Danish owner, but as far I know it is now in Italian hands. Below photo of the car as entered in the 1999 MM Storica.
Sorry, picture does not work, for those interested here the url for paste copying:
[url]http://www.barchetta...m.report.htm#33 Ferrari entered
The car has a Spyder Corsa body with cycle fenders, very similar to the first Spyder Corsa # 002C, which was owned by Count Besana. Biondetti had a good relation with Besana, he drove # 002C even during the 1949 Senigalia GP. Biondetti had no Ferrari by his own which he could use as basis, but the case file for # 002C reports rebodying by Motta as roadster in 1950, so it may well be that Biondetti bought the Spyder Corsa body from Besana to use it for his special. Most important detail however is whether the chassis was Maserati or Ferrari. SC # 002C was not raced by Besana after 1949, and the purpose of rebodying was to make the car road suitable. So why did Biondetti not buy the whole car, but used only the body? The Maserati chassis had no real technical advantages against that of the 159/166 Spyder Corsa. The last owner of the Biondetti Special claims the chassis to be Ferrari, but no details as e.g. original chassis number are known. The history of this special - as known to me - ends with the 1951 Mille Miglia.
Huw's info that this car was entered for the 1952 Mille Miglia for Pezzoli / Cozzulani is not correct. This was another Biondetti Special nothing to do at all with Ferrari. As Jaguar still refuses to sell a C-Type to Biondetti, he built his own one, using Jaguar engine, drive train, and radiator grill. He intended to enter this car for the 1952 MM, but when Ferrari offered him a works 225 S, he accepted this offer, and handed the C-Type replica over to his friend Pezzoli. Below a photo of the C replica taken during 1993 MM Storica.
[p][Edited by Michael M on 06-26-2000]
#10
Huw Jenjin
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Posted 27 June 2000 - 00:00
You are right, my info was off the top of my head, and when i checked it up, it was indeed a different car. Gee, almost made some new history there. Never listen to old duffers.
#11
Michael M
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Posted 27 June 2000 - 15:17
Gerr's and Huw's infos are very valuable, however, I'm afraid the sources mentioned mix up some items. The details of Ferraris #001S and #003S I showed already in my earlier posting, and most likely the "tubular chassis of Maserati origin" was basis for the 1952 C-Type replica, and not for the 1950 Ferrari-Jaguar. All other sources refer to a Ferrari chassis, and also the papers of the Mille Miglia Storica - known for their hardliner scrutineers - name it "Ferrari-Jaguar". The 166 Spyder Corsa body was a 2-seater, but very narrow, nearly a monoposto, so using the SC body on another chassis than the original Ferrari one would have been very difficult if not impossible. To make it even more complicated, Paul Sheldon in his "Record Of G.P.& Voiturette Racing 1950-1953" refers to the Biondetti Special as "Ferrari 166 c/n 06C". # 06C was no Spyder Corsa, but one of the 3 1948 GP monopostos.
So following questions are still open:
- Ferrari or Maserati chassis?
- if Ferrari, which c/n used?
- original c/n retained or renumbered?
- period photos?
- what happened to the car after the 1951 Mille Miglia?
So following questions are still open:
- Ferrari or Maserati chassis?
- if Ferrari, which c/n used?
- original c/n retained or renumbered?
- period photos?
- what happened to the car after the 1951 Mille Miglia?
#12
Michael M
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Posted 26 July 2000 - 13:22
This topic in parts has been handled already in my thread "Biondetti Special" and Austria's "Ferrari F2 1949". In 1948 Ferrari build the first batch of 3 GP cars, numbered 125-02C, 04C, and 06C. All 3 cars raced in the 2nd half of 1948 in various F1 (or then Formula A) events, and at least one of them sporadically was converted to F2 (resp. Formula B). Such conversion was possible quite simply, as both engines had the same exterior measurements. At the end of the year one car was sold to Tony Vanderwell, becoming the "Thin Wall Special" No. 1, the other was sent to South America for competing in the Temporada, and was sold in Spring 1949 the the Brazilian Automobile Club, together with a F1 1.5 ltr supercharged engine, and a 2 ltr s.c. engine for Formula Libre. For both cars I do not know the corresponding chassis numbers. For 1949 Ferrari built 3 new cars, namely 08C, 10C, and 12C - 08C & 12C for the Scuderia, and 10C for Peter Whitehead.
The 3rd 1948 car disappeared, respectively there is more than one trace, but all such traces point to car # 06C. There are signs that Whitehead's 10C was no new car, but a rebodied 1948 chassis, so it could have been 06C. Sheldon gives 166-06C for the 1950 Biondetti Jaguar-Ferrari Special, but this seems unlikely, as this car was entered for the Mille Miglia, and consequently was a twoseater. Additionally the info about the chassis of this special range from Ferrari to Maserati, Jaguar, and even "Biondetti mixture". Other sources report that Scuderia Ambrosiana early 1951 bought 2 F1 cars, one was Whitehead's 125-10C, the other is described as "06C". Again other sources say that Franco Cortese early 1949 bought a F2 monoposto numbered 06C, which he raced until 1952. Wellknown Ferrari collector Pierre Bardinon in the early 70s bought a Ferrari frame numered 06C, on which he reconstructed a F2.
My interest is to follow up the whereabout of the 3rd 1948 Ferrari GP car. I believe we are talking about 06C, but this can only be confirmed if the s/c of the Vanderwell car and the Brazil car can be verified. Pictures of the Ferrari taken during the 1948/49 Temporada would be helpful, as the prototype (02C?) had a somewhat different nose as the other 2 cars. Any infos available from our members?
Next item is Cortese's F2 with s/c 06C, it is unlikely that Ferrari used the same number for a 1949 F2 and for their 1948 F1. In order to get closer to the truth it would be necessary to know the full range of 1949 F2 chassis numbers, as only 011F is known to me (see Austria's topic). If "06C" for Cortese's F2 can be proven, and if such number does not fit in the general 1949 F2 numbering system, it would be obvious that Cortese's car was the missing 1948 GP car converted again to F2 specification. Any pictures of this car would be helpful, although most probably they will show 1949 bodywork.
Marcor, what is the source of your "Cortese - 06C" information? Is it proven that 06C has been used also for 1951 and 1952, or is it possible that Cortese bought early 1951 a newer model? If 06C was used by him up to 1952, what car (06C?) has been bought by Scuderia Ambrosiana early 1951? Any details known about Cortese's 06C after 1952?
What may have been the reason for Sheldon to report "06C" for the Biondetti Special? I know that he is not very reliable on chassis numbers, but he is not listing this number only for fun. What about Whitehead's 10C, anybody able to prove the rumours that this was no new car?
And finally, who knows more details about the Bardinon car, or who can provide some pictures?
The 3rd 1948 car disappeared, respectively there is more than one trace, but all such traces point to car # 06C. There are signs that Whitehead's 10C was no new car, but a rebodied 1948 chassis, so it could have been 06C. Sheldon gives 166-06C for the 1950 Biondetti Jaguar-Ferrari Special, but this seems unlikely, as this car was entered for the Mille Miglia, and consequently was a twoseater. Additionally the info about the chassis of this special range from Ferrari to Maserati, Jaguar, and even "Biondetti mixture". Other sources report that Scuderia Ambrosiana early 1951 bought 2 F1 cars, one was Whitehead's 125-10C, the other is described as "06C". Again other sources say that Franco Cortese early 1949 bought a F2 monoposto numbered 06C, which he raced until 1952. Wellknown Ferrari collector Pierre Bardinon in the early 70s bought a Ferrari frame numered 06C, on which he reconstructed a F2.
My interest is to follow up the whereabout of the 3rd 1948 Ferrari GP car. I believe we are talking about 06C, but this can only be confirmed if the s/c of the Vanderwell car and the Brazil car can be verified. Pictures of the Ferrari taken during the 1948/49 Temporada would be helpful, as the prototype (02C?) had a somewhat different nose as the other 2 cars. Any infos available from our members?
Next item is Cortese's F2 with s/c 06C, it is unlikely that Ferrari used the same number for a 1949 F2 and for their 1948 F1. In order to get closer to the truth it would be necessary to know the full range of 1949 F2 chassis numbers, as only 011F is known to me (see Austria's topic). If "06C" for Cortese's F2 can be proven, and if such number does not fit in the general 1949 F2 numbering system, it would be obvious that Cortese's car was the missing 1948 GP car converted again to F2 specification. Any pictures of this car would be helpful, although most probably they will show 1949 bodywork.
Marcor, what is the source of your "Cortese - 06C" information? Is it proven that 06C has been used also for 1951 and 1952, or is it possible that Cortese bought early 1951 a newer model? If 06C was used by him up to 1952, what car (06C?) has been bought by Scuderia Ambrosiana early 1951? Any details known about Cortese's 06C after 1952?
What may have been the reason for Sheldon to report "06C" for the Biondetti Special? I know that he is not very reliable on chassis numbers, but he is not listing this number only for fun. What about Whitehead's 10C, anybody able to prove the rumours that this was no new car?
And finally, who knows more details about the Bardinon car, or who can provide some pictures?
#13
Marcor
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Posted 26 July 2000 - 16:21
My main source is a French publication called "AUTOMOBILES HISTORIQUES" (april-may 1999). Pierre Abeillon told the story of the first monoposto Ferrari's (from 48 to 53.
Lots of pictures and the victory's list.
A journalist also tested the Pierre Bardinon's Ferrari and there is his complete palmares.
Lots of pictures and the victory's list.
A journalist also tested the Pierre Bardinon's Ferrari and there is his complete palmares.
#14
Roger Clark
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Posted 27 July 2000 - 17:44
I can't help with your questions, but there are good photographs of the Thinwall in both Vanwall, byDenis Jenkinson, and BRM by Doug Nye.
do you know what happened to the first Thinwall? Vandervell/BRm raced it once, stripped it down for examination, told Ferrari what they thought of it, and got a replacement.
do you know what happened to the first Thinwall? Vandervell/BRm raced it once, stripped it down for examination, told Ferrari what they thought of it, and got a replacement.
#15
Megatron
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Posted 09 July 2001 - 19:28
Remember when Biondetti lifted a Jaguar sports car engine into a Ferrari 166 for the 1950 Italiain Grand Prix?
My question: Was that engine a V8?
My question: Was that engine a V8?
#16
Vitesse2
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Posted 09 July 2001 - 21:00
It was out of an XK120, so it would be a flat 4. For details on the car:
http://www.atlasf1.c...light=Biondetti
http://www.atlasf1.c...light=Biondetti
#17
David McKinney
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Posted 09 July 2001 - 21:21
The XK120 engine was of course a straight 6
(Or am I missing a joke somewhere?)
(Or am I missing a joke somewhere?)
#18
Vitesse2
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Posted 09 July 2001 - 21:40
Only a very surreal one, in that my Internet connection dropped out before I could correct that very stupid error!!!
See also:
http://www.ten-tenth...light=Biondetti
See also:
http://www.ten-tenth...light=Biondetti
#21
Michael Müller
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Posted 09 July 2001 - 22:06
# 22, unfortunately no better picture available, searching already for long. Highly interested to identify the body, as principally no Spyder Corsa left over for such a conversion.
#22
Kuwashima
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Posted 10 July 2001 - 06:42
This is a pic of the engine in question at the 1950 Italian GP:
More details on Biondetti and the Ferr/Jag also at our website...
More details on Biondetti and the Ferr/Jag also at our website...
#23
David McKinney
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Posted 10 July 2001 - 07:05
The Biondetti Ferrari-Jaguar was auctioned by Coys of Kensington at their 1995 Silverstone sale, the catalogue for which gives its chassis no. as 07. I believe this was a 166 Inter number.
The catalogue gives this description of the hybrid’s origin:
“In his workshop he had a works XK120 engine. He then reproduced (my italics) a Ferrari 166 chassis and clothed it with a spider corsa body from a Ferrari 166. Thus he created a dual-purpose racing car which, at 860kg, was lighter than the Jaguar XK120 and had more power, and gave less trouble, than a Ferrari 166”
It goes on to list the races (F1 and sportscar) he contested.
The car is depicted in 166SC bodywork (though not the same body as in an accompanying period photo), but I seem to remember at about the same time a car with bodywork similar to a C-type Jaguar being offered as the ex-Biondetti Ferrari-Jaguar. If the bodywork had been replaced, it seems strange the Coys catalogue makes no mention of it. Was there a second Biondetti Ferrari-Jaguar?
The catalogue gives this description of the hybrid’s origin:
“In his workshop he had a works XK120 engine. He then reproduced (my italics) a Ferrari 166 chassis and clothed it with a spider corsa body from a Ferrari 166. Thus he created a dual-purpose racing car which, at 860kg, was lighter than the Jaguar XK120 and had more power, and gave less trouble, than a Ferrari 166”
It goes on to list the races (F1 and sportscar) he contested.
The car is depicted in 166SC bodywork (though not the same body as in an accompanying period photo), but I seem to remember at about the same time a car with bodywork similar to a C-type Jaguar being offered as the ex-Biondetti Ferrari-Jaguar. If the bodywork had been replaced, it seems strange the Coys catalogue makes no mention of it. Was there a second Biondetti Ferrari-Jaguar?
#24
Stefan Ornerdal
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- 578 posts
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Posted 10 July 2001 - 13:51
On my Le Mans-site, I have Biondetti/Leslie Johnson driving a "Jaguar XK120-C Biondetti Special".
Is this a Ferrari 166SC-bodied car?
Cheers
Stefan
Is this a Ferrari 166SC-bodied car?
Cheers
Stefan
#25
Michael Müller
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- 1,181 posts
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Posted 10 July 2001 - 19:07
I started the thread over Biondetti’s Ferrari-Jaguar special last year, so I quote some extracts of my earlier postings. I have to admit that during the last 12 months some new perceptions could be made, and also a rough mistake needed correction.
“Clemente Biondetti in 1948 was team member of Scuderia Inter (financed by Troubetskoy and Sterzi) and raced on various occasions either 166 SC #006I or #010I, both Scuderia Inter cars, or one of SI's sports cars (159 Sport #001S and 166 Sport # 003S). The Scuderia Inter ceased activity end of 1948, and Biondetti raced only sporadically, including another win of the Mille Miglia in a works Ferrari 166 MM together with Salani. For 1950 he joined the Jaguar team, on April 22/23 he finished together with co-driver Bronzoni in a XK 120 the Mille Miglia as 8th, and on June 24/25 he drove one of the new works C-Types together with Leslie Johnson at Le Mans (not correct, see below). He was so impressed about the C-type Jaguar that he tried to buy one for the Italian races, but without success. However, at least he managed to get an engine, which he used for his special.”
Old thread posting from Gerr:
“From Skilleter's "Jaguar Sports Cars", the chapter on "Jag Specials", page 232.
Clemente Biondetti had built himself a Jaguar special. It was usually entered in events as a Jaguar-Ferrari, but was rather more complex than that. The chassis, of tubular construction, was actually Maserati in origin and was fitted with an XK120 engine. The gearbox, transmission, front suspension and brakes were also XK120, but the whole was clothed in a Ferrari Type 166 body and radiator frontage (possibly from Biondetti's own Type 166) – as "Grand Vitesse" said in "The Motor" at the time "all very confusing!" The car does not appear to have survived.”
“The car has a Spyder Corsa body with cycle fenders, very similar to the first Spyder Corsa # 002C, which was owned by Count Besana. Biondetti had a good relation with Besana, he drove # 002C even during the 1949 Senigalia GP. Biondetti had no Ferrari by his own which he could use as basis, but the case file for # 002C reports rebodying by Motta as roadster in 1950, so it may well be that Biondetti bought the Spyder Corsa body from Besana to use it for his special. Most important detail however is whether the chassis was Maserati or Ferrari. SC # 002C was not raced by Besana after 1949, and the purpose of rebodying was to make the car road suitable. So why did Biondetti not buy the whole car, but used only the body? The Maserati chassis had no real technical advantages against that of the 159/166 Spyder Corsa. The history of this special - as known to me - ends with the 1951 Mille Miglia.”
“... and most likely the "tubular chassis of Maserati origin" was basis for the 1952 C-Type replica, and not for the 1950 Ferrari-Jaguar. All other sources refer to a Ferrari chassis, and also the papers of the Mille Miglia Storica - known for their hardliner scrutineers - name it "Ferrari-Jaguar". The 166 Spyder Corsa body was a 2-seater, but very narrow, nearly a monoposto, so using the SC body on another chassis than the original Ferrari one would have been very difficult if not impossible. To make it even more complicated, Paul Sheldon in his "Record Of G.P.& Voiturette Racing 1950-1953" refers to the Biondetti Special as "Ferrari 166 c/n 06C". # 06C was no Spyder Corsa, but one of the 3 1948 GP monopostos.”
Actual remark: # 06C can be dropped definitively.
Actual posting by Stefan Ornerdal:
“On my Le Mans-site, I have Biondetti/Leslie Johnson driving a "Jaguar XK120-C Biondetti Special". Is this a Ferrari 166SC-bodied car?”
When working up the old thread, I realized that most probably I used a wrong information, namely that Biondetti/Johnson drove a C-Type at Le Mans 1950. The C-Type was only introduced in 1951, and as far I know 3 works cars had been entered for Le Mans, Walker/Whitehead, Moss/Fairman, and Lawrie Waller. That means that the Biondetti/Johnson car, although entered as XK120 C-Type, may have been the Ferrari-Jaguar special. Another possibility is Biondetti’s 2nd special (see below), although up to now I thought it was ready only for 1952. Only a period photo I believe will show the truth.
Actual posting by David McKinney:
“I seem to remember at about the same time a car with bodywork similar to a C-type Jaguar being offered as the ex-Biondetti Ferrari-Jaguar. If the bodywork had been replaced, it seems strange the Coys catalogue makes no mention of it. Was there a second Biondetti Ferrari-Jaguar?”
The answer is also included already in the old thread:
“Huw's info that this car was entered for the 1952 Mille Miglia for Pezzoli / Cozzulani is not correct. This was another Biondetti Special nothing to do at all with Ferrari. As Jaguar still refuses to sell a C-Type to Biondetti, he built his own one, using Jaguar engine, drive train, and radiator grill. He intended to enter this car for the 1952 MM, but when Ferrari offered him a works 225 S, he accepted this offer, and handed the C-Type replica over to his friend Pezzoli.”
A photo and some details about this car can be found here:
http://www.millemigl...re/jagbiosp.htm
“Contrary to Gerr's info the car is still existing today, whether genuine or not I cannot say. It participated in the MM for the last couple of years under his Danish owner, but as far I know it is now in Italian hands. Below photo of the car as entered in the 1999 MM Storica.”
Original photo text:“A team from Denmark entered a so-called "Jaguar Ferrari Biondetti Sport"; this weird Jaguar-powered car is rumored to have a Ferrari chassis. I have not been able to confirm this nor to find out anything else on what the car actually has got to do with Ferrari – if it has at all. Maybe one of our readers may help?”
More detailed pictures can be found here:
http://www.axos.nl/r...r-MM-1999-1.jpg
http://www.axos.nl/r...r-MM-1999-2.jpg
http://www.axos.nl/r...r-MM-1999-3.jpg
http://www.axos.nl/r...r-MM-1999-4.jpg
Actual posting by David McKinney:
“The catalogue gives this description of the hybrid’s origin:
In his workshop he had a works XK120 engine. He then reproduced (my italics) a Ferrari 166 chassis and clothed it with a spider corsa body from a Ferrari 166. Thus he created a dual-purpose racing car which, at 860kg, was lighter than the Jaguar XK120 and had more power, and gave less trouble, than a Ferrari 166”
I remember the car was sold as a bargain by Coys, I checked my files, it was GBP 36.640. The given chassis number “07” – under which the car is also entered for the Mille Miglia Retro! – is more than doubtful. David is partly correct, # 007S – not 07 – is the telaio of a 1949 166 Inter road car, but this car is still existing today. What puzzles me is the resemblance between Biondetti’s special and Besana’s 002C, see Kuwashima’s detail picture above, and # 002C in its 1949 version below.
The Biondetti special has additional coolings slits around the radiator, but the rest of the front body seems to be identical, even the mountings for the headlamps are there. As said already in last year’s thread, Biondetti had good relations with the Besana brothers, and their # 002C in 1950 received a new roadster body by Motta, in order to make the car more usable for “civil use”. My theory is that Biondetti used the surplus bodywork for his special, as (1) it really looks identical, and (2) no other SC body was available at this time acc. to my knowledge. Now the chassis. The further history of # 002C is rather well documented, and it can be taken as proven that the Motta roadster in fact was built on the 002C chassis. So what did Biondetti hide under the Spyder Corsa body? Was it really a Maserati chassis as some sources suggest? Or was it homemade by Biondetti? Or a hybrid out of Ferrari, Jaguar, Maserati, and Idontknowwhatelse parts? This question remains still open.
And finally, the car which is presented today as the “Biondetti Ferrari-Jaguar Special”. Well, I have my doubts that this is an original car. First of all the telaio, a number “07” does not exist as Ferrari number, and it is also no Maserati numbering. If this number is original, then it may be a number used by Biondetti. But why not “1”? Or may be it is “01”, which looks like “07”? Then the body, although the radiator grill looks rather similar to the original one, it has a longer nose, the engine cover is shaped completely different, and the tail has absolutely nothing in common with a Spyder Corsa back. My impression is that the creator of this bodywork probably knew the detail photo as posted by Kuwashima above, but had to be creative for the rest of the bodywork. And finally the 1995 price of the car. I know a Spyder Corsa replica offered recently for $ 100.000, a real bargain compared with the $ 2-3 million for a genuine one (don’t want to start discussions about “genuine SCs” here and now). So a price half of this for the real Biondetti special is unlikely, if the chassis really is a SC one, it’s price alone would achieve half a million, and if the bodywork is original, the current owner of # 002C, who must live with a replica body created by the late Stan Nowak, would give his left arm for it. So for me it is obvious, that the “Biondetti Ferrari-Jaguar Special” is at least doubtful with regards to originality.
“Clemente Biondetti in 1948 was team member of Scuderia Inter (financed by Troubetskoy and Sterzi) and raced on various occasions either 166 SC #006I or #010I, both Scuderia Inter cars, or one of SI's sports cars (159 Sport #001S and 166 Sport # 003S). The Scuderia Inter ceased activity end of 1948, and Biondetti raced only sporadically, including another win of the Mille Miglia in a works Ferrari 166 MM together with Salani. For 1950 he joined the Jaguar team, on April 22/23 he finished together with co-driver Bronzoni in a XK 120 the Mille Miglia as 8th, and on June 24/25 he drove one of the new works C-Types together with Leslie Johnson at Le Mans (not correct, see below). He was so impressed about the C-type Jaguar that he tried to buy one for the Italian races, but without success. However, at least he managed to get an engine, which he used for his special.”
Old thread posting from Gerr:
“From Skilleter's "Jaguar Sports Cars", the chapter on "Jag Specials", page 232.
Clemente Biondetti had built himself a Jaguar special. It was usually entered in events as a Jaguar-Ferrari, but was rather more complex than that. The chassis, of tubular construction, was actually Maserati in origin and was fitted with an XK120 engine. The gearbox, transmission, front suspension and brakes were also XK120, but the whole was clothed in a Ferrari Type 166 body and radiator frontage (possibly from Biondetti's own Type 166) – as "Grand Vitesse" said in "The Motor" at the time "all very confusing!" The car does not appear to have survived.”
“The car has a Spyder Corsa body with cycle fenders, very similar to the first Spyder Corsa # 002C, which was owned by Count Besana. Biondetti had a good relation with Besana, he drove # 002C even during the 1949 Senigalia GP. Biondetti had no Ferrari by his own which he could use as basis, but the case file for # 002C reports rebodying by Motta as roadster in 1950, so it may well be that Biondetti bought the Spyder Corsa body from Besana to use it for his special. Most important detail however is whether the chassis was Maserati or Ferrari. SC # 002C was not raced by Besana after 1949, and the purpose of rebodying was to make the car road suitable. So why did Biondetti not buy the whole car, but used only the body? The Maserati chassis had no real technical advantages against that of the 159/166 Spyder Corsa. The history of this special - as known to me - ends with the 1951 Mille Miglia.”
“... and most likely the "tubular chassis of Maserati origin" was basis for the 1952 C-Type replica, and not for the 1950 Ferrari-Jaguar. All other sources refer to a Ferrari chassis, and also the papers of the Mille Miglia Storica - known for their hardliner scrutineers - name it "Ferrari-Jaguar". The 166 Spyder Corsa body was a 2-seater, but very narrow, nearly a monoposto, so using the SC body on another chassis than the original Ferrari one would have been very difficult if not impossible. To make it even more complicated, Paul Sheldon in his "Record Of G.P.& Voiturette Racing 1950-1953" refers to the Biondetti Special as "Ferrari 166 c/n 06C". # 06C was no Spyder Corsa, but one of the 3 1948 GP monopostos.”
Actual remark: # 06C can be dropped definitively.
Actual posting by Stefan Ornerdal:
“On my Le Mans-site, I have Biondetti/Leslie Johnson driving a "Jaguar XK120-C Biondetti Special". Is this a Ferrari 166SC-bodied car?”
When working up the old thread, I realized that most probably I used a wrong information, namely that Biondetti/Johnson drove a C-Type at Le Mans 1950. The C-Type was only introduced in 1951, and as far I know 3 works cars had been entered for Le Mans, Walker/Whitehead, Moss/Fairman, and Lawrie Waller. That means that the Biondetti/Johnson car, although entered as XK120 C-Type, may have been the Ferrari-Jaguar special. Another possibility is Biondetti’s 2nd special (see below), although up to now I thought it was ready only for 1952. Only a period photo I believe will show the truth.
Actual posting by David McKinney:
“I seem to remember at about the same time a car with bodywork similar to a C-type Jaguar being offered as the ex-Biondetti Ferrari-Jaguar. If the bodywork had been replaced, it seems strange the Coys catalogue makes no mention of it. Was there a second Biondetti Ferrari-Jaguar?”
The answer is also included already in the old thread:
“Huw's info that this car was entered for the 1952 Mille Miglia for Pezzoli / Cozzulani is not correct. This was another Biondetti Special nothing to do at all with Ferrari. As Jaguar still refuses to sell a C-Type to Biondetti, he built his own one, using Jaguar engine, drive train, and radiator grill. He intended to enter this car for the 1952 MM, but when Ferrari offered him a works 225 S, he accepted this offer, and handed the C-Type replica over to his friend Pezzoli.”
A photo and some details about this car can be found here:
http://www.millemigl...re/jagbiosp.htm
“Contrary to Gerr's info the car is still existing today, whether genuine or not I cannot say. It participated in the MM for the last couple of years under his Danish owner, but as far I know it is now in Italian hands. Below photo of the car as entered in the 1999 MM Storica.”
Original photo text:“A team from Denmark entered a so-called "Jaguar Ferrari Biondetti Sport"; this weird Jaguar-powered car is rumored to have a Ferrari chassis. I have not been able to confirm this nor to find out anything else on what the car actually has got to do with Ferrari – if it has at all. Maybe one of our readers may help?”
More detailed pictures can be found here:
http://www.axos.nl/r...r-MM-1999-1.jpg
http://www.axos.nl/r...r-MM-1999-2.jpg
http://www.axos.nl/r...r-MM-1999-3.jpg
http://www.axos.nl/r...r-MM-1999-4.jpg
Actual posting by David McKinney:
“The catalogue gives this description of the hybrid’s origin:
In his workshop he had a works XK120 engine. He then reproduced (my italics) a Ferrari 166 chassis and clothed it with a spider corsa body from a Ferrari 166. Thus he created a dual-purpose racing car which, at 860kg, was lighter than the Jaguar XK120 and had more power, and gave less trouble, than a Ferrari 166”
I remember the car was sold as a bargain by Coys, I checked my files, it was GBP 36.640. The given chassis number “07” – under which the car is also entered for the Mille Miglia Retro! – is more than doubtful. David is partly correct, # 007S – not 07 – is the telaio of a 1949 166 Inter road car, but this car is still existing today. What puzzles me is the resemblance between Biondetti’s special and Besana’s 002C, see Kuwashima’s detail picture above, and # 002C in its 1949 version below.
The Biondetti special has additional coolings slits around the radiator, but the rest of the front body seems to be identical, even the mountings for the headlamps are there. As said already in last year’s thread, Biondetti had good relations with the Besana brothers, and their # 002C in 1950 received a new roadster body by Motta, in order to make the car more usable for “civil use”. My theory is that Biondetti used the surplus bodywork for his special, as (1) it really looks identical, and (2) no other SC body was available at this time acc. to my knowledge. Now the chassis. The further history of # 002C is rather well documented, and it can be taken as proven that the Motta roadster in fact was built on the 002C chassis. So what did Biondetti hide under the Spyder Corsa body? Was it really a Maserati chassis as some sources suggest? Or was it homemade by Biondetti? Or a hybrid out of Ferrari, Jaguar, Maserati, and Idontknowwhatelse parts? This question remains still open.
And finally, the car which is presented today as the “Biondetti Ferrari-Jaguar Special”. Well, I have my doubts that this is an original car. First of all the telaio, a number “07” does not exist as Ferrari number, and it is also no Maserati numbering. If this number is original, then it may be a number used by Biondetti. But why not “1”? Or may be it is “01”, which looks like “07”? Then the body, although the radiator grill looks rather similar to the original one, it has a longer nose, the engine cover is shaped completely different, and the tail has absolutely nothing in common with a Spyder Corsa back. My impression is that the creator of this bodywork probably knew the detail photo as posted by Kuwashima above, but had to be creative for the rest of the bodywork. And finally the 1995 price of the car. I know a Spyder Corsa replica offered recently for $ 100.000, a real bargain compared with the $ 2-3 million for a genuine one (don’t want to start discussions about “genuine SCs” here and now). So a price half of this for the real Biondetti special is unlikely, if the chassis really is a SC one, it’s price alone would achieve half a million, and if the bodywork is original, the current owner of # 002C, who must live with a replica body created by the late Stan Nowak, would give his left arm for it. So for me it is obvious, that the “Biondetti Ferrari-Jaguar Special” is at least doubtful with regards to originality.
#26
fw07c
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- 170 posts
- Joined: January 06
Member
Posted 06 October 2007 - 14:00
Originally posted by David McKinney
The Biondetti Ferrari-Jaguar was auctioned by Coys of Kensington at their 1995 Silverstone sale, the catalogue for which gives its chassis no. as 07. I believe this was a 166 Inter number.
The catalogue gives this description of the hybrid’s origin:
“In his workshop he had a works XK120 engine. He then reproduced (my italics) a Ferrari 166 chassis and clothed it with a spider corsa body from a Ferrari 166. Thus he created a dual-purpose racing car which, at 860kg, was lighter than the Jaguar XK120 and had more power, and gave less trouble, than a Ferrari 166”
It goes on to list the races (F1 and sportscar) he contested.
The car is depicted in 166SC bodywork (though not the same body as in an accompanying period photo), but I seem to remember at about the same time a car with bodywork similar to a C-type Jaguar being offered as the ex-Biondetti Ferrari-Jaguar. If the bodywork had been replaced, it seems strange the Coys catalogue makes no mention of it. Was there a second Biondetti Ferrari-Jaguar?
According to the above quote Biondetti Ferrari jaguar wich competed in the 1950 Italian Grand Prix was Ferrari 166I chassis number 07.Is this correct?
#27
dretceterini
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- 2,991 posts
- Joined: May 02
Member
Posted 06 October 2007 - 15:09
I believe the car that looks like a Ferrari 166 and the one that looks like a C-Jag are two different cars.
I'm not sure if the one that looks like a Ferrari 166 has any Ferrari stuff in it at all! I think the chassis and body are both IN PERIOD replicas of a Ferrari 166.
I'm not sure if the Ferrari 166 looking car that exists today is period, or a modern "replicar"
I'm not sure if the one that looks like a Ferrari 166 has any Ferrari stuff in it at all! I think the chassis and body are both IN PERIOD replicas of a Ferrari 166.
I'm not sure if the Ferrari 166 looking car that exists today is period, or a modern "replicar"
#28
Graham Gauld
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- 1,221 posts
- Joined: September 04
Member
Posted 06 October 2007 - 15:22
This is Clemente Biondetti with the original Jaguar/Ferrari setting off on the 1952 Mille Miglia. He had seen a model of the C type when he visited the Jaguar factory and had his car styled in a similar way. However, I believe that on that Mille Miglia the chassis broke when going over a level crossing !
#29
macoran
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- 3,989 posts
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Member
Posted 06 October 2007 - 16:38
Scanned this from French L'Automobile some years ago
#30
dretceterini
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- 2,991 posts
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Posted 06 October 2007 - 17:09
I remember a car that was called a Biondetti-Ferrari-Jaguar about 25 years ago in a showroom on Santa Monica Blvd in Los Angeles. I believe the dealership was called Mille Miglia Motors. It looked like the Biondetti-Ferrari-Jaguar 166 pictured here, but it was but with slightly differnt bodywork. It was also dark green. Yet another car??
#31
2000 touring sp
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- 31 posts
- Joined: October 05
Member
Posted 06 October 2007 - 17:52
According to this article ther a Biondetti Ferrari-Jaguar 1951 in Denmark
"i kælderen står fuldblodsbilerne på række. Her er en 1951 Ferrari Biondetti Special med Jaguar-motor. Der Formel 1-raceren, Spider og Testarossa."
http://fpn.dk/motor/...icle1119495.ece
"i kælderen står fuldblodsbilerne på række. Her er en 1951 Ferrari Biondetti Special med Jaguar-motor. Der Formel 1-raceren, Spider og Testarossa."
http://fpn.dk/motor/...icle1119495.ece
#32
Paul Parker
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- 2,198 posts
- Joined: October 02
Member
Posted 06 October 2007 - 17:59
They are two different cars.
I seem to recall that Karl (Ludvigsen) has Mailander b/w pics of one or both of these 'specials' in his archive.
I seem to recall that Karl (Ludvigsen) has Mailander b/w pics of one or both of these 'specials' in his archive.
#34
dretceterini
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- 2,991 posts
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Member
Posted 07 October 2007 - 01:06
If the chassis was indeed from a Ferrari, what is it's number?
As far as I am aware, there is no real connection to Ferrari on either of the Biondetti cars; the chassis are "replicas" of the Ferrari chassis, as is the coachwork on the car that looks somewhat like a Ferrari 166......
As far as I am aware, there is no real connection to Ferrari on either of the Biondetti cars; the chassis are "replicas" of the Ferrari chassis, as is the coachwork on the car that looks somewhat like a Ferrari 166......
#35
fw07c
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- 170 posts
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Posted 07 October 2007 - 09:42
Sorry 2000 touring sp but my Danish is none existant. Is there an English version?
#36
Michael Müller
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- 1,181 posts
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Posted 07 October 2007 - 23:48
At the Coys auction the car was sold at GBP 36.500, is there anybody around believing that this would have been paid for a genuine Ferrari chassis? Even the bodywork would have fetched more in case it had been original....
I do not post photos here for the well-known reasons. For those who are interested to compare the SC 002C, the Biondetti Special, and the sold by Coys can have a look here:
http://www.ferrarich...ad.php?t=158477
(You must be logged in to see the photos).
PS: My postings in this thread are 7 years old, at that time I just started my Ferrari research. So not everything was correct of course.
I do not post photos here for the well-known reasons. For those who are interested to compare the SC 002C, the Biondetti Special, and the sold by Coys can have a look here:
http://www.ferrarich...ad.php?t=158477
(You must be logged in to see the photos).
PS: My postings in this thread are 7 years old, at that time I just started my Ferrari research. So not everything was correct of course.
#37
ReWind
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Member
Posted 20 October 2007 - 07:30
In order to avoid opening a new thread I'll post the following here.
Most sources say Clemente Biondetti died on 24 February 1955, only some sources say he died on 24 January 1955. Nevertheless I tend to believe the latter is correct.
His death was reported in the March issue of German magazine „ADAC motorwelt“ (unfortunately without giving a date). As far as I can see this magazine was published at the end of the preceding month which would mean the March issue was published at the end of February. If that is true it would rule out any reports on events that happened after mid-February.
To clear this point I would ask fellow TNFers to look into their contemporary magazines and tell us WHEN Biondetti’s death was reported for the first time. Many thanks.
Most sources say Clemente Biondetti died on 24 February 1955, only some sources say he died on 24 January 1955. Nevertheless I tend to believe the latter is correct.
His death was reported in the March issue of German magazine „ADAC motorwelt“ (unfortunately without giving a date). As far as I can see this magazine was published at the end of the preceding month which would mean the March issue was published at the end of February. If that is true it would rule out any reports on events that happened after mid-February.
To clear this point I would ask fellow TNFers to look into their contemporary magazines and tell us WHEN Biondetti’s death was reported for the first time. Many thanks.
#38
David McKinney
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Posted 20 October 2007 - 09:29
Autosport 4/3/55 reports that he died on Thursday 24 February
#39
alessandro silva
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Posted 20 October 2007 - 09:33
Auto Italiana 28/2/1955 reports February 24th as well
Advertisement
#40
ensign14
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Posted 20 October 2007 - 10:01
In a nice example of synchronicity, this week's Autosport has an article on 3 way title fights - and the picture used to illustrate Monza 1950 has Biondetti's Ferrari-Jag to the forefront.
