1515 replies to this topic

[Doug Nye]

Sorry fellers - in the mire again - could anyone offer an entry list or results for the Australian feature race at Hume Weir, March 13, 1961...????

DCN

[john medley]

"Australian Motor Sports " May 1961 : " Craven 'A' International Cup " 20 Laps Five Coopers, driven by Brabham , Salvadori , Stillwell , Miller , and Leighton , contested this event . First away was Brabham followed by Salvadori.........
1. Brabham
2. Stillwell
3. Leighton
Retired : Miller clutch , Salvadori drive shaft
Fastest Lap Brabham , Stillwell 53.1 seconds

[David McKinney]

The Aussies are presumably all asleep (except Ray Bell, who never sleeps)
There were two Craven A International Cup races, both of 20 laps, one on the Sunday and one on the Monday
(Craven A was/is a brand of fags)
12/3/61
1 Jack Brabham (Cooper-Climax) 18m 02.9s
2 Bill Patterson (Cooper-Climax) 18m 03.8s
3 Bib Stillwell (Cooper-Climax) 18m 06.8s
4 Roy Salvadori (Cooper-Climax) 18m 22.5s
5 Jon Leighton (Cooper-Climax) 19 laps
6 Austin Miller (Cooper-Climax) 19 laps
7 David McKay (Lola FJ) 15 laps
DNF Laurie Whitehead (Ausper FJ) - fuel (first lap)
Fastest lap: Stillwell 52.4s
13/3/61
20 laps
1 Jack Brabham (Cooper-Climax) [no time given]
2 Bib Stillwell (Cooper-Climax) -6s
3 Jon Leighton (Cooper-Climax) 19 laps
DNF Roy Salvadori (Cooper-Climax) - driveshaft (third lap)
DNF Austin Miller (Cooper-Climax) - fire (first lap)
Fastest lap: Brabham and Stillwell 53.1s
The top cars also had seven shorter races to contest over the weekend, most of them won by Brabham, though Salvadori beat him in one
above all from Australian Motor Sports May 1961
A bit more time and I can probably produce model numbers and maybe even chassis numbers

[David McKinney]

OK, so the Aussies aren't all asleep
Anf they type faster than me

[Doug Nye]

- TNF speed of response!!!!!! Thanks a mill...

DCN

PS - Where is/was Hume Weir????

[RTH]

I am beginning to think you could ask for an answer to 'The meaning of Life ' on here and get the definitive answer confirmed by 'tea time ' ! ..... it is pretty amazing what you can all come up with !

[Doug Nye]

Forty-two?

[RTH]

Originally posted by Doug Nye
Forty-two?

Yes , and I expect someone will have the chassis number of the late Douglas Adams road car as well !

[Vitesse2]

Originally posted by RTH


Yes , and I expect someone will have the chassis number of the late Douglas Adams road car as well !

His Ford Prefect?

Okay, back to the subject ....

[David McKinney]

Originally posted by Doug Nye
Where is/was Hume Weir????

Albury, on the NSW/Vic border

[Option1]

Originally posted by Doug Nye
Where is/was Hume Weir????

http://www.racingcir...a/HumeWeir.html

http://www.multimap....ordsys=mercator

Neil

[fines]

This thread encapsulates the true spirit of TNF: speed, knowledge and (weird) humour!

Gotta llllluvit

[RTH]

Originally posted by Vitesse2

His Ford Prefect?

I didn't even see that one coming !

[RTH]

Originally posted by David McKinney

Albury, on the NSW/Vic border

That's a weid co-incidence I live in a village of that name in the English home counties of 300 inhabitants

[Ruairidh]

Originally posted by Option1
http://www.racingcir...a/HumeWeir.html

http://www.multimap....ordsys=mercator

Neil

Is there anything left of the old circuit?

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Ruairidh
Is there anything left of the old circuit?

I believe the answer to that is a resounding 'no!'... but I haven't been to check.

The circuit was built essentially within a quarry from which was won the fill for the huge earthen dam wall that holds back Lake Hume. Racing was from c1960 to c1976, the circuit was 1.1 miles and featured a narrow section between the quarry walls where the two loops that made up that 1.1miles were connected by sections that ran past each other, only a concrete wall separating them.

Rapid succession of races was assisted by the grid being off the circuit, so cars could be gridded as soon as the previous race concluded without getting in the way of each other. There was a lot of grandstand construction and an overbridge over that narrow neck paid for by Len Lukey, who was the promoter of this particular meeting.

I understand that works to raise the dam wall or reinforce it or something were the reason for the obliteration of the area. It's quite likely, however, that you could find some traces of parts of its path.

As for Ray Bell never sleeping... yeah, sometimes, but I'm with my wife right now. This means:

a. I have no reference material, so other than knowing that Jack won I was useless.

b. I might get to go to bed.

Albury, by the way, is a fairly large country town, classified as a city, probably around 30,000 people. With Wodonga, its twin city on the southern side of the Murray River, it forms what used to be known as the 'Albury-Wodonga growth centre'... which is politicians speak for 'let's get some industry into the rural areas because the bush will collapse without it.'

Koni motorcycle dampers are now assembled in Albury under licence by the Australian distributors of Koni, Proven Products. They sell worldwide under the brand name 'Ikon'... Koni having decided to abandon that market themselves... just one example of how industry has responded to the call to the bush. Borg-Warner have a huge plant there too.

[john medley]

I stopped off for a look 7 years ago , climbed over the wire fence past the sign saying Trespassers Will Be Violated , and walked what remains. I dont know how we ever raced there : extremely narrow , very tight , and built in a quarry . Scrub Corner at the end of the Start/ Finish Straight is still the sharpest hairpin corner in Australia : I recall stories of those who had to back-and-fill to get around ! The Lukey Bridge across the back straight had gone but an old marshalls shed was a reminder of what once had been. Even the white telephone boxes used by Flaggies in wet weather were gone from Globe and Stratford Corners . I imagine very little would remain now

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Vitesse2
His Ford Prefect?

This isn't it, by the way?



And some of the 'hole in the earth quarry' aspect can be seen in the background of this oft-published picture of Peter Brock (the only photo I've ever seen published of his A30 in colour)...

[Bernd]

Originally posted by john medley
Scrub Corner at the end of the Start/ Finish Straight is still the sharpest hairpin corner in Australia : I recall stories of those who had to back-and-fill to get around !

Surely it was not as tight as the hairpin at Symmons Plains John?

[Ray Bell]

Maybe no tighter, but every bit as tight... and much narrower, with concrete kerbs to boot!

Not only that, it was entered via a curving braking area, and there was a left turn out of it that led to the back straight...



Something of an idea or what it was like... again, from a published photograph.

[Paul Newby]

With the help of Terry Walker's Fast Tracks we ventured down to Hume Weir in '95 - but we had to ask a local for directions. I couldn't believe how out of the way it was. At this time we were able to get into what was a private property and line "our cars": a Lancia Fulvia and Monte Carlo (we were en route to Castlemaine ...) on the start line next to the derelict control tower. We were able to walk around the complete track (still sealed) and the concrete seperation wall was intact. Even the Lukey Bridge was laying derelict some way away - just like Terry had noted.

On subsequent trips (1998 and 2001) it was evident that heavy machinery were at work and things were changing. I managed to get my road car (Integra Type R) on the "track" in 2001 and photograph it next to the only remnants I could see - the armco barriers on the approach to Scrub Corner!

As Ray explained there are a few motoring related factories in Albury but he forgot to mention V8 Supercar outfit Brad Jones Racing who have been situated in Jone's home town for many years. Indeed they recruit a lot of their young crew from the local TAFE who administer a diploma in race mechanical engineering (not too sure what it is called.

Was Hune Weir last used for the '75 F2 National Championship or did it linger a bit longer? I remember it had been used as a special stage on the Alpine Rally up to the early '90s.

[Ray Bell]

Actually, Paul, I wasn't thinking totally of motor-related industries...

I was making the point that Albury-Wodonga had become an industrial centre generally... though probably not to the extent that the various governments wanted it to be.

If you were there in 2001 and still found traces, I'd say you still could today. If you knew where you were looking... and sorry, I don't know when the final meeting was held.

[Bernd]

Alas tis' true. There is little of Hume Weir left today.

Hume Weir Today

It must be 15 years since I've been down there and I hardly recognise it at all now.

[Ray Bell]

Thanks for posting that link, Bernd... I haven't seen what's there and that gives me a more optimistic view than I had.

By the way, it's 'Scrub' and the map's pretty hopeless. You need a map from an early programme...

[Bernd]

That is a map from an early programme. From memory the race this thread was started for.

As for Scrub I got the name right on the map and wrong on the description. I'll fix it when I find time.

[normbeechey]

Sad to see what remains of Hume Weir, although there is a little bit more than I was expecting. I presume the pics were taken very recently???

Here's an early pic of Peter Brock's Austin A30 at Hume Weir: http://members.tripo...ir_1969_web.jpg
from: www.MotorsportArchive.com

You may have to "Copy" and "Paste" the URL into your web browser address bar.

[Ray Bell]

That 'early photo of Peter Brock's A30' might be the one posted above?

By the way, this is an interesting pic...

http://www.members.t...Park_Feb_74.jpg

[normbeechey]

No, it is another photo of the A30.

BTW, why is the Matich pic so interesting? Are you standing in the background of the pic?!

Chris.
www.MotorsportArchive.com

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by normbeechey
No, it is another photo of the A30.

BTW, why is the Matich pic so interesting? Are you standing in the background of the pic?!

So I'm told... but I can't actually verify that... what interests me also is the year... is 1974 correct?

As for the other A30 pic, I can't get it to open... this is the message for me:

Sorry, but the page or the file that you're looking for is not here.

[normbeechey]

Ray, you can see the Brock A30 pic by going to www.MotorsportArchive.com them select the "1960 Page 1" page.

The pic is half way down the page. If you look a lttle further down than that you will see a more familiar pic of the car

So are you going to tell us which one you are in the photo? (The photo is on the top page of the "1970's Page 3" page of the web site).

I have a couple of rare colour photos of your hero's McLaren M10B in New Zealand at Levin during the 1970 Tasman series (well I haven't seen a colour photo of the car in the original light blue at least).

I should have it posted on the "New Additions" page soon.

I have scanned a magazine pic of Leo Geoghegan racing the Ansett Elfin MR5 which I will email you if you are interested. The last email I have from you is 2 years old. Brad Jones will be happy if you still have that same email address though...

Chris.
www.MotorsportArchive.com

[normbeechey]

PS. Re 1974 being the year of the Matich pic, the photo came without a date but it would have to be the Oran Park Tasman round as Frank retired after the 1974 Tasman Series and the A53 debuted at that Oran Park meeting, with Bob Muir as the substitute for an injured Frank (burns from his near death experience on the boat).

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by normbeechey
Ray, you can see the Brock A30 pic by going to www.MotorsportArchive.com them select the "1960 Page 1" page.

The pic is half way down the page. If you look a lttle further down than that you will see a more familiar pic of the car

So are you going to tell us which one you are in the photo? (The photo is on the top page of the "1970's Page 3" page of the web site).

I have a couple of rare colour photos of your hero's McLaren M10B in New Zealand at Levin during the 1970 Tasman series (well I haven't seen a colour photo of the car in the original light blue at least).

I should have it posted on the "New Additions" page soon.

I have scanned a magazine pic of Leo Geoghegan racing the Ansett Elfin MR5 which I will email you if you are interested. The last email I have from you is 2 years old. Brad Jones will be happy if you still have that same email address though...

One thing at a time...

I think that A30 pic would be from 1968... by 1969 the car was light blue (from memory)... but I'll bow to superior knowledge if you have better information than my memory.

I'm not sure it is me in the picture, but Neville Bridges reckons it is... I'll await a clearer scan in my e.mail... have you got a higher resolution scan? If I'm there, Max Stahl is too... but in 1974 we weren't working together. I'm not the one scratching his bum.

My hero's M10B? Excellent... green or red?

My e.mail address is different, actually, even though I've kept an ISP account I almost never use for three years just to avoid it changing!

What would Brad Jones want? raybell@justin-bell.net will get me...

[normbeechey]

Ray,

I was one of Peter Brock's first fans when I was a kid because my father owned an Austin. My first memory of the car was of it being British Racing Green in colour, but it must have been the dark blue/green colour as in the two pics on my web site; I was very young at the time…

I have magazine pics that shows the A30 in early 1969 still in its dark colour, but by about mid 1969 the magazine pics show it in its final light blue colour, so your memory is pretty good.

The Niel Allen (got his Christian name spelt correctly!) McLaren M10B pic is in its original light blue colour. I noticed the car in “painted” red on a RCN cover but when did it race in that colour?

Brad Jones would have been pleased if you still had the old email address I have of yours because it would mean that you would have still been supporting his sponsor!

Chris.

www.MotorsportArchive.com

[Bernd]

Chris the photos were taken around March last year.

[normbeechey]

Thanks Bernd,

The map was a good idea. I was never lucky enough to see the circuit, so it made the photos make more sense.

I wonder what ever happened to all the grandstands they had there? I suppose they where relocated or destroyed? It must have been a great spectator circuit. Pity Bob Jane didn't have any success as the promotor there.

The current Calder grandstand started life at the Olympic Park greyhound track. It has been relocated twice as it was relocated once within the Calder circuit!

BTW, the old Dunlop Bridge from Warwick Farm was sitting in pieces behind the end of the rear straight Calder, up until a few years ago at least.

Chris.
www.MotorsportArchive.com

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by normbeechey
I was one of Peter Brock's first fans when I was a kid because my father owned an Austin. My first memory of the car was of it being British Racing Green in colour, but it must have been the dark blue/green colour as in the two pics on my web site; I was very young at the time…

I have magazine pics that shows the A30 in early 1969 still in its dark colour, but by about mid 1969 the magazine pics show it in its final light blue colour, so your memory is pretty good.

The Niel Allen (got his Christian name spelt correctly!) McLaren M10B pic is in its original light blue colour. I noticed the car in “painted” red on a RCN cover but when did it race in that colour?

Brad Jones would have been pleased if you still had the old email address I have of yours because it would mean that you would have still been supporting his sponsor!

Ozemail? That was a matter of convenience... austarmetro wasn't available when I moved to Murrumburrah.

Niel had three colours in the F5000 days... first the blue, yes, that would have been 1970, but in 1971 (it must have been) he ran a red car with a yellow nose in New Zealand then his green car in Australia. Or I am guessing this is the way it was... certainly he had two cars. The painting on the RCN cover would have been done to colour reference from the Pukekohe race meeting.

The Brock A30 was certainly blue, not green. I guess Brock was young at the time too... 22 in 1967 when he started racing.

And those grandstands at Hume Weir would have been scrapped. The timber of the seats must have been getting very old by the late seventies, the steel would have sold well for scrap. But I think there was a grandstand at Wirlinga that had been erected just for the day, so you never know...

[David McKinney]

Originally posted by Ray Bell

Niel had three colours in the F5000 days... first the blue, yes, that would have been 1970, but in 1971 (it must have been) he ran a red car with a yellow nose in New Zealand then his green car in Australia. Or I am guessing this is the way it was... certainly he had two cars. The painting on the RCN cover would have been done to colour reference from the Pukekohe race meeting.

Haven't we had this discussion before?
Allen did not race a red and yellow M10B in New Zealand
In 1970, as you say, his car was blue, and in 1971 dark blue - or maybe the green you mention - with a dayglo orange (or red?) nose

[Vicuna]

The 1971 NZIGP winning car was green.

All over - roll bar, suspension arms - the bloody lot.

And with a red nose.

[Ray Bell]

I stand corrected...

If the nose was dayglo, it would have been red, not orange. It wasn't that outstanding.

My reluctance to accept him not having a red car is based on the usual attention to detail that RCN paid to getting the paintings right... maybe it had been intended for Allen's cars to have been red for the series (in deference to Shell sponsorship) and it never took place, and maybe there simply wasn't any colour reference available.

Strange, still, as the Allen cars were very familiar to all concerned.

Or maybe Shell paid for the painting and wanted a bit more return for their money? Must ask Max...

[john medley]

What I can recall is the surprise we experienced when that RCN cover first appeared __ because we already knew and had seen the car in that khaki green colour with the red or dayglo nose band.
Then and now the reasons for doing the " wrong" colour ( from a normally reliable artist) are not known to me.

[deeks6]

I simply have to add something to this thread (thanks for putting me onto it Ray). I can describe a lap of Hume Weir from first hand experience.

I used to be great mates with a guy called Simon Mullumbee, who's dad worked for Bob Jane. Bob became his guardian after Simons dad died so I hung around that pit a fair bit.

There was a day at Hume Weir that I remember as one of the most exciting (and terrifying in another sense) i have ever experienced. I was about 10 years old and Bob had just won the main Touring car feature in his Trans Am Mustang. Simon and I were congratulating him and he said "Jump in boys and we'll have a ride". Simon was in the back hanging on to the roll bar and I was in the front hanging on to whatever I could.

We started off near the finish line, which from memory was after where they started (from a kind of chute). We should have known what we were in for when Bob put his helmet back on - he bagged it up and accelerated flat chat down the "dogleg" type front straight, the nose of the 'stang seemingly straight up in the air and the engine noise deafening. That straight then narrows to a small right hand hairpin followed by a quick left hander. The nose was still high in the air as this turn approached and I was thinking "****, we are going to DIE". We were way past the point of what I considered safe when Bob slammed on the anchors and the hood sunk as fast as it had risen and he threw the car into a tyre-frying opposite lock. Bob had an amazing, unique driving style, almost wearing the steering wheel on his chest and at this point he had his head so horizontal it was poking out the window as he literally wrestled the thing sideways all the way through this tightest of tight corners. Just as soon as this seemed "almost' under control at the apex of the corner, down slams the gas pedal again and the car's bonnet again lurched skyward (how the short-in-status Jane ever saw what was happening under acceleration is beyond me). Anyway, we hurtled through that turn and down the back "dogleg" left straightaway at about 130mph, as Bob would later tell us. This "straight" led into a kind of half-circle loop and after the obligatory both feet brake slam past the point of no return, Bob drifted the Mustang all the way around that loop, winding the wheel back and forth to get some semblance of control. It was then full-noise again down another short "dogleg" section under a bridge to a looping but tightening apex left then a tightish right back onto the main straight. Naturally these were negotiated in the same manner. My friend Simon hadnt seen much after the first turn, being flung to the seat and unable to get himself back up - he was white with fright when he got out. My eyes had nearly popped out but it was one hell of a thrill that not many can lay claim to - a lap at effectively race-speed with Bob Jane. And, as any of his competetiors will tell you, he was one helluva driver.

[deeks6]

Oh, by the way, Adrian has the original program for this meeting and was commentating that day so I'll get him on the thread if anyone's interested. I was about 3 at the time so I don't remember much! From memory, his best mate (and family friend) Bryan Thomson was driving a Cooper that day.

[Ray Bell]

Bryan Thomson had the supercharged Cooper Climax about 1964 or so... the Mustang came mid-65 for the earliest version...

[eldougo]

deeks6 ---------- and I was thinking "****, we are going to DIE". Great story i laughted all
the way around the lap .i had a mental picture of you guys in the STANG bloody funny.

[Bernd]

Here's another shot from the site.



Any idea what this is? I fear it may be the sad remains of the iconic Lukey Bridge...

[Ray Bell]

That's exactly what the structure is... a round tube space frame design, most appropriate for its era... but the stressed skins are missing.

This pic is looking up towards the Stratford and Globe end of the circuit?

[deeks6]

It certainly looks like it. Almost certain to be yes.

[Ray Bell]

Ah, the memory of walking over this dodgy structure, fifty feet above the circuit (40' you say? Well, what's ten feet between friends?) and thinking how fragile it all was... the central support being two pieces of 4" pipe coming up from the concrete wall... was there any bracing wires? And it was never, really, well anchored into the walls of the quarry.

We must have been as brave as the drivers down below...

[Adrian Ryan]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
Bryan Thomson had the supercharged Cooper Climax about 1964 or so... the Mustang came mid-65 for the earliest version...

Hello, Ray...it's Adrian here
We reckon that the Cooper was a bit earlier than that (but we'll check with Bryan) because he put the motor out of the Cooper into his Elfin Mallala which he had prior to buying the stang off Norm Beechey. Incidentally, the photo in an earlier post shows Bryan in the Mallala following Neil Allens Elfin 400.
However, at the HW International, he drove the Monza, we think.

[Ray Bell]

Congratulations on joining our party, Adrian...

Of course, your expertise and recollections will be very welcome around here. And I agree... the only time I saw Thommo run the Cooper he won a minor race at Warwick Farm. I would have said that was either 1964 or 1963 at the Warwick Farm International meeting. My problem is that I don't have my magazines with me to check.

And you're right, he stuck that power unit into the Mallala (making that one prized little car for competitive Group M Historic racing!) before buying the Mustang from Stormin' Norman. Beechey ran his Mustang, as you would recall well, from February 1965 (my reference to mid-65 was Jane's first car, the white one), but I don't remember clearly when he sold it.

The Chevy Nova was next, I would have said about May 1966, but whether it came before or after the Mustang was sold I do not know. Thommo, however, took the Mustang to England to race before I ever saw him in it... so that would have been in the European summer of 1966... he first appeared in my sight in that car at Homestead Corner - well on the grass! - at the 1967 International Farm. I think. But why was I at Homestead? I was always between the Northern Crossing and the Causeway from September '65 to September '70, with the very best view in the whole shop.

Until I get my head into my magazines, I think I might say '64... but it matters little... you've got the programmes.

Nice to see you stick your head in here, anyway... Max has a read occasionally but he's not game to post anything.