1265 replies to this topic

[Barri]

Who's going to be Sauber's best??!!

[ivanalesi]

Someone crazy enough to overtake the other "left, right and middle"

[coyoteBR]

Sure will be fun to watch.
But I think, in the end, the edge will be Massa's.

[Schuting Star]

Haven't got a clue but I'm looking forward to finding out

[Corners]

Massa will do better.

[Dino G]

Massa may initially have an advantage of familiarity. However, sheer speed and improved mental demeanour of a champion will humble the ever improving Massa.

[dfernandd]

If you take recent performance of the two drivers, you would tend to say that Massa is going to be the faster, however I think in the end JV will have the upper hand, he has more experience and he looks as motivated as 1996 when he was a rookie in F1.

[Rene]

JV will beat Massa by a large margin, with the gap growing as races go on....I expect the first races for them to be very close, Massa may even have an edge, then after a race or two look for Jacques to clearly pull ahead...

[caanan]

Massa has improved and I think Villeneuve still has a bit of gas left in the tank... It should be interesting. I think this go for Villeneuve will be alot more flattering than the Renault one. March can't come quick enough for me.

[Zawed]

It will be similar to the season just gone. Like Fisichella, Jacques will do better across the season, but Massa will start off 2005 well.

[xype]

I wonder if JV will try the same thing he did with Frentzen in the first race they did for Williams. Would certainly be fun.

[fifi]

Originally posted by Schuting Star
Haven't got a clue but I'm looking forward to finding out

what she said ;)

[ratmac]

hopefully the sauber is reliable and we dont get "robbed" of a great duel like we were in 2003 with the crap reliability of villeneuves car.

[metz]

Originally posted by Rene
JV will beat Massa by a large margin, with the gap growing as races go on....I expect the first races for them to be very close, Massa may even have an edge, then after a race or two look for Jacques to clearly pull ahead...

I don't know.
It all depends on reliability.
Look at his time with Button at BAR.
I would have bet on JV then.
But Button was more consistent.
At Sauber however, Massa is anything but consistent.
It'll be fairly even...

[magicalonso]

I agree that it will be fairly even with Massa having the edge in the first couple races. I rate Fisichella very highly, but on several occassions - especially in qualifying- Massa managed to get very close to him.
I also disagree with those saying JV's best days are behind him. Sure FA made him look bad, but FA would do that with just about anybody coming back from a year off in a car 4 seconds faster than the last time he raced. Fernando is *that* good. His race craft is out of this world. That made JV look way worse than he really is.
All things considered I expect Massa to have the edge early on, but JV will equal him in the course of the year IMO.

[JtP]

Originally posted by Barri
Who's going to be Sauber's best??!!

The one who gets his head down and gets on with the job and I wonder who that's more likely to be.

[The Boss]

like others, i expect that massa may have the edge until jacques gets sorted and gets a feel for the car...if he has the motivation he once had he should have no problems in putting massa in his place. while massa is an improving driver, compared to jacques when he's on it he'd do exceptionally well to beat him.

[Gabbiano]

Massa will DESTROY JV.

[Talisman]

JV should be the one with more consistency, scoring more points in the process, but Massa will probably be the one putting in the odd blinding performances that people will remember while trailing behind his teammate for most of the season.

[fastlegs]

If reliability does not become an issue then JV should out perform Massa over the course of the season.

If he doesn't, then I think it will be time for JV to ride off into the sunset.

[StickShift]

I expect Villeneuve will beat Massa, but if Felipe lives up to his hype, he should be able to challenge.

[gerry nassar]

Expect it to be close. Flashes of brilliance from both and some off days. Overall, JV may just edge ahead on points given reliability.

[Zawed]

Originally posted by xype
I wonder if JV will try the same thing he did with Frentzen in the first race they did for Williams. Would certainly be fun.

You're talking mindgames aren't you? I don't think Massa would handle those too well, he strikes me as being the excitable type.

[alesifan46]

As long as JOCK CLEAR stays away from that Sauber...VILLY should do okay...I'll just wait and see how the Massa vs Villy thread goes all year before forming an unbiased opinion!!

[jnp]

Depends, but I guess JV will get the job done in front of Massa.

But Sauber needs more testing time, and they should have no reliability problems.

jnp

[weiteck]

[FANBOY]JV will school Massa![/FANBOY]

But like all of you, I think it will be interesting... But I expect JV to come out on top at the end of the year.

[Icicle]

Villeneuve gets my vote.

[Rene]

Originally posted by alesifan46
As long as JOCK CLEAR stays away from that Sauber...VILLY should do okay...I'll just wait and see how the Massa vs Villy thread goes all year before forming an unbiased opinion!!

It pains me to say it, but I agree getting away from Jock Clear is the best thing for Jacques....Jock is a great friend, who is very loyal, but his car seems to always have the worst reliability!

[Ghostrider]

Difficult to say really, but I think Massa will give JV a good fight. I almost expect Massa to be quicker over the season, but I am open for positive JV surprises.

[kodandaram]

MAssa was on the ball in the last few races. He was impressive , even . So I think he has at last found his feet in the team. He was not as ragged . He was pretty quick and smooth . He even led teh race in Brazil for two laps. Shows signs of great progress and if he keep that trend he can trouble Villeneuve.

AS for Villeneue - as time has gone by he has become a bit more of a solid driver than spectacular. By that I mean to say that he has become "tight" in his driving. He doesn't manhandle the car like he was forced to during the BARFu*k days . Even in 2003 he seemed to have changed a lot in terms of driving. I can see clear differences b/w the Jv of 2001 and Jv of 2003. He is driving more and more like Olivier Panis - pretty accurate and not as many mistakes as before. Nowadays I am pretty sure that JAcques will get through a qualy lap without any MAJOR mistakes while in 2003 he made a few blunders. JAcques still is not the kind of driver who will tuck the car into a corner with pinpoint precision like say Mika or kimi , he is a driver who inherently makes correction all the while no matter how good the car feels. But he can be ultra smoot at times when the car is spot on .

My point is that JV has changed ....he is more a solid driver now ....nothing too spectacular ...but I feel the speed is still there . HE did very well in Brazil in the Renault. To remind some ppl - he was driving that car only for the third time in a race , only a few days of testing and on Michlein tyres which he has not used in his career. And he started on dry tyres in wet conditions , as did DC and Alonso .....while Alonso made it work , JV performed acceptably. Look @ DC - he has been driving that McLAren for the whole year , started on the same michelin dry tyres and was nowhere in his last race for McLAren ....Jv was way ahead of him ....

Overall I think this is going to be a close battle. I think Massa will be quicker in the first few races - then JAcques will get ahead . he has the speed , skill and experience to do that ....

[skinnylizard]

Originally posted by xype
I wonder if JV will try the same thing he did with Frentzen in the first race they did for Williams. Would certainly be fun.

refresh my memory

[Racer Joe]

Originally posted by skinnylizard


refresh my memory

Nothing much to it really. JV ****ed around on Friday putting in very quick sector times but never bothered to string a lap together. HHF was quickest and was apparently pretty happy about it in the garage. JV apparently said to someone in his inner circle that he would kill Frentzen tomorrow (Sat) and he did. He kicked Frentzen's butt in Sat morning practice and qualifying. I think he was more than 2 seconds quicker in practice and over 1.7s quicker in qualifying.

Hill did pretty much the same thing to JV the year before too, sandbagging until Saturday.

[Ferguson]

Originally posted by Racer Joe


Hill did pretty much the same thing to JV the year before too, sandbagging until Saturday.

Didn't Villeneuve have pole in his first race in '96?

[Arrow]

Last year massa proved to be very average so i expect villeneuve to match him.

[wagner]

Originally posted by Arrow
Last year massa proved to be very average so i expect villeneuve to match him.

I think it will be a close match. JV will be in the ballpark even if he doesn't get into his top form of past.

[Beamer]

Originally posted by Ferguson


Didn't Villeneuve have pole in his first race in '96?

yep

[Racer Joe]

Originally posted by Ferguson


Didn't Villeneuve have pole in his first race in '96?

Sorry, I wasn't clear. I meant in 1996 rather than specifically that race. And yes, JV did take that pole. But look at the following race at Brazil for example.

[xype]

Originally posted by Racer Joe


Sorry, I wasn't clear. I meant in 1996 rather than specifically that race. And yes, JV did take that pole. But look at the following race at Brazil for example.

Not at all surprising, considering Hill tried to kill poor little Jacques.

I'm still a fan of both.

[Orin]

Great photo Xype!

I guess JV's going to struggle next year, he seems to have lost his edge years ago. I'd be surprised if Massa doesn't beat him easily. I agree the separation from Jock Clear is probably a good thing, if only because he'll no longer be listening to an uninterrupted stream of drivel throughout the race. Perhaps a little separation from the sycophants will do him some good, I'd like to see him back to his old form.

[madmac]

This one will be close, but I think JV will edge away from Massa over the course of the season. IMHO effectively having to start again in F1 will do JV a lot of good & give him the hunger we want to see.

[The Fazz]

Originally posted by alesifan46
As long as JOCK CLEAR stays away from that Sauber...VILLY should do okay...

As for Jacques, the right attitude seems to be there and he seems very keen on redeeming himself although without necessarily over doing it. His return with Renault last year was under alot of pressure: although he didn't impress, he certainly did not disgrace himself and was daring in Shanghai with Schumi and in Brazil. I think the winter preparation would do him good.

As for Massa... I think he is a quick driver, but seems very emotional and erratic at times. He will have to mature by a significant measure before being able to be a consistent contender.

My guess is Jacques beats Massa over the course of the season.

[xype]

Originally posted by Orin
Great photo Xype!

Yeah, I think it says a lot about Jacques' and Damon's character. I think they're both good guys.

Originally posted by Orin
I guess JV's going to struggle next year, he seems to have lost his edge years ago. I'd be surprised if Massa doesn't beat him easily. I agree the separation from Jock Clear is probably a good thing, if only because he'll no longer be listening to an uninterrupted stream of drivel throughout the race. Perhaps a little separation from the sycophants will do him some good, I'd like to see him back to his old form.

I don't think he really lost his edge but more that his years at BAR really did a lot of damage to his motivation and performance. There are many people saying he improved his driving, improved in the wet, made less mistakes and so on. I don't expect wonders from hin at Sauber, but I do expect it to be a much better showcase of his true talent than BAR was.

And, yes, landing at a team like Sauber should do him some good, I think. Williams and later in the process BAR were not the friendliest environments for him. Even if at BAR it was his own doing.

[HSJ]

Originally posted by Arrow
Last year massa proved to be very average so i expect villeneuve to match him.

That's a very Todd-like comment! Are you sure you're not his alias? Maybe related to him or something? Anyhoo, you're probably correct...

[HSJ]

Originally posted by The Fazz
His return with Renault last year was under alot of pressure: although he didn't impress, he certainly did not disgrace himself

I'm afraid he did... I mean other drivers (take DC for example) have been called utter crap even when performing much better than what JV showed late 04. But I guess it is a case of different perceptions. Like e.g. JB gets more credit for getting 3rd in WDC (2004) with the 2nd best car than DC gets for getting 2nd in WDC (2001) in what was also the 2nd best car. Seems like it anyway.

[senna da silva]

JV

[GilesGuthrie]

Originally posted by alesifan46
As long as JOCK CLEAR stays away from that Sauber...VILLY should do okay...I'll just wait and see how the Massa vs Villy thread goes all year before forming an unbiased opinion!!

Isn't Clear still race-engineering Takuma Sato's car?

Villeneuve v Massa could be interesting. But I would see it as being a case of Villeneuve being more consistent, with Massa having flashes of brilliance. After all, as Montoya said of Massa, "to drive like that and not crash takes some talent".

If Massa is consistently faster through the start of the season, and if JV has a bad race in Canada, then I think you could see JV's motivation really suffer in the back half of the European season, when all the back-to-back races start to take their toll on his stamina.

[ivanalesi]

I think that a lot of ppl here will be surprised next year:)
Gilles, JV has never been fast at Montreal... I dont think its that important track for him...

[angst]

I get the impression that Massa drives on or over his limit all the time. I don't think he is the most intelligent of racers - while Villeneuve clearly is. With one set of tyres to last the whole race and far more nervous cars I can't see Massa thriving under those circumstances. I think Massa and Sato may be two drivers who really suffer in '05. In fact I'll make the prediction that Anthony Davidson will be a BAR-Honda race driver before 2005 is through.

Who Sauber will bring in to replace Massa (as they amy have to) I don't know - Alex Wurz perhaps?

[chris_canuk]

Originally posted by angst
I get the impression that Massa drives on or over his limit all the time. I don't think he is the most intelligent of racers - while Villeneuve clearly is.

A bit OT and I'm no Massa fan (nor do I have anything against him), but Gilles Villeneuve made an entire career out of driving at or over the limit (of the car) and was considered intelligent by his peers.

[Arrows4Ever]

Originally posted by chris_canuk
A bit OT and I'm no Massa fan (nor do I have anything against him), but Gilles Villeneuve made an entire career out of driving at or over the limit (of the car) and was considered intelligent by his peers.

You're absolutely right about Gilles but different times(or eras for that matter) and different cars ask today for a different type of driving.

Then again, would Massa have been a great driver back then? : Not sure either...

Driving "over the limit" can be done today but it is a much more precise science and different from simply driving "kamikaze" style, is it not? I think Montoya and Jacques do it but can Felipe do it?