21 replies to this topic

[HistoricMustang]

We continue to document.

The April 1964 issue of Sports Car Magazine has this simply listed as a Chaparral. Please help us identify the series and if possible provide other photos. Perhaps a "2" series? A chassis ID would be wonderful.

As usual, thanks.

Henry

[Ray Bell]

Certainly a Chaparral 2... before the big spoilers were added...

Didn't Jim Hall and Hap Sharp always run the same numbers one race after another?

[brooster51]

This is definitely a 2. The 1's were front engine and built by Trautman and Barnes. I don't think there was anything else besides 2's other than the sucker car and subsequent Indy cars.

The first car race I attended was a USRRC race at Seattle International Raceway. As I recall, Hap Sharp was in a 2B(?) and Jim Hall was in a 2C (as I recall it had an aluminum mono rather than the plastic affair of most all other Chaparrals) with the first flapper wing in back. They were number 67 and 66 respectively.

I think if you search this forum, you may find a lot of history on the chassis numbers. I think there were actually only 3 or 4. They just rebuilt them into different versions.

As a side light, I think Mr. Hall survived a complaint by one of the competitors about flashing brake lights or some such. Turned out they had rigged some form of mercury smitch that would turn on the brake lights when they hit a bump. Tended to cause those following closely to tap their brakes in reaction. TheSCCA judge determined that it was not an performance enhancement to the car so it was 'allowed'.

[Bayou Bengal]

Originally posted by HistoricMustang
We continue to document.

The April 1964 issue of Sports Car Magazine has this simply listed as a Chaparral. Please help us identify the series and if possible provide other photos. Perhaps a "2" series? A chassis ID would be wonderful.

As usual, thanks.

Henry

Definitely an early Chaparral 2. The wheels are from the Chaparral 1 before the snowflake mags that the Chaparral 2's had during the glory days.

Here's the same car from a rear angle.



The cars got the corner spoilers up front to reduce lift very quickly.

[Bayou Bengal]

Of course the Chapparal had lost the spoilers when Jim Hall introduced the 2J aka The Sucker Car or The Vacuum cleaner. Someone described it as looking like the box the car came in.

[2F-001]

re. the pic in the first post from Henry-

Assuming this is actually a race meeting, then the combination of the car's nose, race number, low intake stacks and short vertical exhaust 'stubbies' suggests to me this is chassis number 2A-001... at either Augusta or Pensacola, with Jim Hall himself at the wheel.
(However, that is without a great deal of cross-checking...)

[HistoricMustang]

Tony, the initial photo in the thread is from the March 1, 1964 Augusta race.

Bayou, is your first photo from perhaps the Augusta event?

We continue to search for photos of this machine and others from Augusta as they will be displayed and documented at the new library being constructed at the former circuit. Very few have been found of this particular USRRC event. This library is scheduled to open in July 2005.

Any photos of this particular car (or others) will be very much appreciated!

Thanks for all the help.

Would also like TNF"ers input on the race winning King Cobra driven by Dave MacDonald.



Henry

[2F-001]

Bayou's first pic has the tall inlet stacks, so I'd guess it's not Augusta, unless they experimented with configurations.

[rl1856]

Given the lead times of print magazines in those days, is it possible that the picture actually dated from late 1963 ? The shape of the nose, lack if intake stacks and visable exhaust pipes all indicate that the vehicle is a very early "2". Recall that the 2 made it's debut during the Fall '63 racing season. From contemporary race accounts, the nose of the 2 was changed early in the life of the car and before the addition of chin and tail spoilers.

Best,

Ross

[T54]

The Chaparral 2 in the picture ran the WHOLE 1964 season visually (but not mechanically) unchanged. "Wobbly" wheels, 001 with exhausts pointing up, 002 generally driven by Sharp or Penske with exhausts pointing straight back.

The new GM designed (actually, by Larry Shinoda) modular wheels came with the new wider Firestones and the "Coke-bottle" 2A bodywork racing first at Sebring in March 1965.

[HistoricMustang]

Originally posted by rl1856
Given the lead times of print magazines in those days, is it possible that the picture actually dated from late 1963 ? The shape of the nose, lack if intake stacks and visable exhaust pipes all indicate that the vehicle is a very early "2". Recall that the 2 made it's debut during the Fall '63 racing season. From contemporary race accounts, the nose of the 2 was changed early in the life of the car and before the addition of chin and tail spoilers.

Best,

Ross

Ross, that picture is for sure from the Augusta road circuit. It was cropped from a photo showing the lake that ran just a few feet from the racing surface. So that set up was used at the March 1, 1964 event. Having said that, believe the Augusta event was the first for the 1964 race season.

Also, have received some very recent information that this "2" model may have infact evolved into a series of "2" models and is perhaps sitting in the museum in Midland, Texas. That is special!

Henry

[T54]

Also, have received some very recent information that this "2" model may have infact evolved into a series of "2" models and is perhaps sitting in the museum in Midland, Texas. That is special!

Gentlemen,
The story of every one of the few Chaparrals ever built, rebuilt and converted into other cars has been explained in the most minute details by Doug Nye and Ryan Falconer in a book available from Motorbooks International or Amazon that sold in the many.

There were only 3 glass tubs ever made for all these cars, and they served as model "2" (1963 and 1964), "2A" (1965 and were converted to the two "2D" coupes. One of them was then re-converted to a "2A".
Then there were aluminum tubs that served as "2E", and I can't even remember which the "2F" used, alloy or glass and I don't have the !@#$% book with me. Other one-offs were a 2H and 2J that have nothing to do with the 2, 2A, 2C, 2D and 2F.

Now, ALL these cars are sitting in the Petroleum Museum in Midland in one form or the other, except for ONE that was too damaged to fix. So no "perhaps", just an easy yes as this story was published in about every auto magazine in about 56 countries last year when the special wing of the museum opened, not counting the numerous TV shows about it.
So my question is, with all due respect, were you locked in a cave some place with some cheese and Bordeaux or back from Mars?
Regards,

T54

[wibblywobbly]

Originally posted by T54
Now, ALL these cars are sitting in the Petroleum Museum in Midland in one form or the other, except for ONE that was too damaged to fix.

Would that be the ONE from Mosport '64 or Las Vegas '68? They were both pretty far gone, from pictures and video I've seen.

[T54]

That's the 2G from the Motschenbacher "incident" in Las Vegas. the tub is pretty smashed... I am not sure if it got repaired in some form for the display, but as of last I checked, it was left as crashed.
Regards,

T54

[HistoricMustang]

So my question is, with all due respect, were you locked in a cave some place with some cheese and Bordeaux or back from Mars?

Yes, I continue to admit and apologize for myself getting up to speed on the host of information involving any motorsports other than the Southern US variety. My inability in this area have been posted on numerous occasions and patience is again asked as I did infact drop in from Mars in September of 2003.

Thanks to all for teaching and thanks to most for understanding.

Henry

[Manfred Cubenoggin]

My late aunt took film of Jim Hall going over the guardrail in the esses at Mosport in 1964. My cousin, her son, still has the film and we exchange emails on a virtual daily basis.

[Rosemayer]

Henry try here:

www.chuckbrandt.com/kingcobra.htm

[HistoricMustang]

Rosemayer, thanks much and the last photo appears to be Ken Miles "backing" the King Cobra. Does anyone have a feel for where this photograph may have been taken?

Henry

[HDonaldCapps]

The picture is of '001' in its "2A" trim in early 1964. I have another picture of the car at Augusta from the June issue of US Auto Sports.

[rosemeyer]

Thanks Don

[2F-001]

Ah - so Don and I agree that we're talking about 2A-001.
This is indicated in several sources to be the basis of 2D-001, which won the 1,000kms at the 'Ring in '66, and now residing as the restored 2D.

T54 - I'm not sure I agree that 2A-001 ran the entire '64 season visually unchanged.
(excuses first: I did say I was offering a suggestion without much checking... and I was confused at first by who drove 001 and where/when), but there are a few pictures that show it a handful of times with combinations of tall exhausts, angled exhausts, tall inlet stacks and one instance of long pipes swept over the body (more regularly seen on the other chassis). For eg: Mosport in June and September.
What I haven't entirely eliminated yet is compounded errors carried over from one race record or picture caption to another.

[HistoricMustang]

Originally posted by HDonaldCapps
The picture is of '001' in its "2A" trim in early 1964. I have another picture of the car at Augusta from the June issue of US Auto Sports.

Don, could you PM the photo? We have so very few of cars on track.

Of course we will give credit to US Auto Sports.

Thanks much!

Henry