32 replies to this topic

[alessandro silva]

The year 1949 saw the birth of several Specials built around the 1.7L Lea-Francis engine. Besides the first Connaughts there were:
- the Spikins Spl.
- Joe Kelly's IRA Spl
and
- the RDL.
I know enough about the Spikins, but very little about the other two cars.
The IRA later got a Bristol engine, and it is in this form that this car is usually described.
The RDL is more mysterious. It was driven in 1949 by Kenneth Rose, son of Lea-Francis chief engineer, and by a Gil Baird (not Bobbie I presume) who might have been the builder.
More info about the IRA and the RDL are welcomed. Photos would be perfect, of course!

[Felix Muelas]

Dear Alessandro,

Sometime ago, this exchange of information took place @ TNF (sorry, my local copy so I do not know the thread number) :

Steve L 13-Dec-02 10:24 1

Member
Since: Oct 2002

The Geoffrey Taylor designed 1948 Grand Prix Alta always seems to be overlooked when examining cars competing in the 1.5 litre supercharged GP formula.

I realise that the cars were seriously underpowered, but was wondering how good the rest of the design really was?

Alta single seater suspension systems are always fairly interesting. The first pre-war single seaters used coil springing and the last pre-war car had torsion bars, whereas the new post-war design had suspension by rubber blocks! So, were the older systems considered a failure, and how successful was the new layout?

I believe Taylor had a V8 engine on the drawing board where it stayed, but other people later modified the three F1 cars quite considerably with other engines.

I would particularly like to know more about the (Joe Kelly?) car that went to Ireland and became the I.R.A - Irish Racing Automobile...

Pete Stowe 15-Dec-02 15:42 2

Member
Since: May 2002



A few details I’ve found on the IRA car. In 1950 Joe Kelly bought a new GP Alta (1.5 litre 2 stage supercharged), the third one built, and first raced it at the British GP at Silverstone. He raced this car during 1951, although for a time it was apparently borrowed by Bobbie Baird.
In July 1952 Autosport reported that Dubliner Kelly was planning an Irish Formula 2 car, with Bristol engine, and chassis, suspension and body by Kelly, four "Irish Racing Automobiles" being planned, to compete in Grands Prix. The IRA first appeared in the Wakefield Trophy race at the Curragh in September 1952. This car is referred to as having an Alta based chassis, so presumably used the chassis from his GP Alta (???); one reference in 1953 described it as "Joe Kelly’s Bristol engined GP Alta Special". During 1953 Kelly’s entries appeared as an Alta-Bristol, rather than using the IRA name. I’ve not found any further references to the car in Autosport and in 1954 Kelly was racing a C-type Jaguar.

__________________
Pete Stowe

[David McKinney]

I don't know of any connection between IRA cars and Lea-Francis engines
I always thought - but am not at all sure - that the IRA and Kelly's Alta-Bristol were two different beasts. ISTR the Alta-Bristol was later sold to England, while the IRA stayed in Ireland (and became the Jirano).
The Spikins Special became known as the Laystall-Cromard (or plain Cromard)
RDL doesn't right a bell at all, but RBL does. Not loudly enough to tell me anything, however

[alessandro silva]

David,
I agree that the IRA and the Alta-Bristol were different cars if the IRA became the Jirano [a fact which I did not know]. The IRA-Lea Francis went very fast at the 1949 Manx Cup.

The RDL [not RBL, at least according to Motor Sport] was not as fast. It was also raced at Blandford 1949.

[Graham Gauld]

In the early 1950's young Scottish driver Billy Skelly built an effective Lea Francis single seater. He was an apprentice at Lea Francis and raced the car in Scotland before buying one of the three single seater F2 Frazer-Nash's. I will try and post a pic of it for the record. Full details, of course, in my book Scoittish Motor Racing and drivers (Plug).

GG

[David McKinney]

The relevant "Black Book" lists Kenneth Rose in an RDL (Lea-Francis engine) in the Manc Cup and Gil Baird in an RBL (no engine named) at Blandford
So maybe we're both right, and there were two different cars
Except that another of my sources says the Blandford driver was Bobbie Baird (who may or may not have set up a company called Robert Baird Ltd....)

[alessandro silva]

I believe it was always the same car.
I have the relevant Autocar and Motor Sport for Blandford where it was involved in the Fairman's crash:

-Autocar, Sept 2: G.R. Baird in the results, called Gil in the report. The car is a RBL

-Motor Sport, Oct.: G.P. Baird in the results. The car is a R.L.B. in the results and in the report. It was a R.D.L. in the Manx Cup report in the June issue.

I need the Programmes, I suppose.

[Adam F]

From the programmes :-

Manx Cup
No.35 Entrant KHF Rose 1767cc R.D.L. Drivers KHF Rose and G Baird

Blandford
No.25 Entrant & Driver GR Baird R.B.L. 1767cc

"The R.B.L. has a Lea-Francis engine, the chassis having been built in Bournemouth before the war by L.W. Avery"

It would be logical for the "R" and "B" in R.B.L. to refer to Rose and Baird.

[alessandro silva]

Thank you Adam!

photo with Kelly and Skelly, 1951 Winfield F2 [Kelly, pole, Skelly #1, second row]



the Autosport report gives Kelly in IRA (no engine specified) not in the Alta as per Sheldon

[David McKinney]

Originally posted by alessandro silva
the Autosport report gives Kelly in IRA (no engine specified) not in the Alta as per Sheldon

...and it looks very much like the (later) Jirano

[alessandro silva]

right!

[roger_valentine]

A search of TNF shows no previous mention of the Jirano, but Google brings up this pic:


http://www.curragh.i...icles/motor.htm

[uechtel]

Originally posted by roger_valentine
A search of TNF shows no previous mention of the Jirano, but Google brings up this pic:


http://www.curragh.i...icles/motor.htm

...and this one as well:

http://www.curragh.i.../racingcar2.JPG

Caption says "Gillie Tyrer in the Supermotor BMW 1953". Can somebody put some light on this, please?

[alessandro silva]

The Supermotor was a Fiat chassis with BMW 328 engine.

[starlet]

Yep, and raced by Hosking at the 1955 Shelsley Walsh, for example. Do you now remember it, uechtel?

[uechtel]

yes and no. I have Hosking in the car called "Way BMW Special" at Shelseley Walsh in 1955. So it´s the same thing as the Supermotor?

[starlet]

I think so, compare the pics.

[uechtel]

yes indeed. Thanks for pointing me to that.

[RTH]

Thank you Adam!

photo with Kelly and Skelly, 1951 Winfield F2 [Kelly, pole, Skelly #1, second row]



the Autosport report gives Kelly in IRA (no engine specified) not in the Alta as per Sheldon

Met a chap called Billy Skelly at the Whatley Hall Hotel Banbury over the British GP weekend he was over specially from the I.O.M where he lives and was I understand one of the original 350 members of the BRDC.

Started racing in the early 50s went to his first race meeting in 1947. I did not of course ask his age but he looked remarkably fit and well.

Wonder if anyone else can fill in some background details , history etc ?

[Graham Gauld]

Met a chap called Billy Skelly at the Whatley Hall Hotel Banbury over the British GP weekend he was over specially from the I.O.M where he lives and was I understand one of the original 350 members of the BRDC.

Started racing in the early 50s went to his first race meeting in 1947. I did not of course ask his age but he looked remarkably fit and well.

Wonder if anyone else can fill in some background details , history etc ?

Billy was born and brought up in Motherwell where his father ran a motor business. Billy was apprenticed to Lea Francis and built his own Lea Francis single seater that he raced in Scotland before switching to a Formula 2 Frazer Nash. He and his father developed the Skelly's of Motherwell business with a dealership for Singer and Alvis. He was very helpful to me in the 1950's when I was with Motor World magazine and we regularly visited Oulton Park and Silverstone. He did a lot of trading with Roy Salvadori who was a close friend of his as was Ken Wharton. His brothers Ian and Sherwood joined the business from school and after the death of their father the business truly took off with Ford dealerships and at one time I believe they held more Ford main dealerships than anyone else but were hit by earlier recessions and a split in the family which saw Ian Skelly open his own Volkswagen dealership. Eventually the Skelly business was sold and Billy retired to the Isle of Man where he traded in paintings with a great love of the "Glasgow Boys" paintings. He and his wife Margaret have lived there for around thirty years. As you say he still comes over for the British Grand Prix and the occasional meeting of the Scottish group of BRDC members. David Murray tried to persuade Billy's father to buy a C type Jaguar and race with Ecurie Ecosse but Billy preferred to be a private entrant.

[David McKinney]

Appropriate to the thread, as a young man he raced a Lea-Francis special at Winfield (in the land of the Scots) in 1951, then brought it south for the 1952 International Trophy in which, unsurprisingly, he was not placed.

Then acquired from the factory one of the three single-seater F2 Frazer Nashes and took it to fifth place in the Wakefield Trophy at the Curragh. Entered the same car in the 1953 International Trophy, but this time didn't start

And that's about it, really

[RTH]

Fantastic information Graham and David and all in the time it took me to have a coffee. Very many thanks indeed. I will get on the phone back to the circuit armed with this newly found knowledge ! Thanks.

[Graham Gauld]

Fantastic information Graham and David and all in the time it took me to have a coffee. Very many thanks indeed. I will get on the phone back to the circuit armed with this newly found knowledge ! Thanks.

OK McKinney.........you want more ? how about racing a Jowett Jupiter in Silverstone saloon race or a Jowet Jupiter in the Ulster Trophy or TT ...etc.et.

On one trip to Oulton Park in a brand new Alvis Billy remarked that I might have a job to do. It appears a hire purchase company were going to re-posess a Lister-Bristol and we were to meet the reps at noon the next day. At noon we saw two tall gentlemen in bowler hats, overcoats and brief cases which screamed of "Hire purchase" and people were rushing to push cars into transporters in panic. As it turned out the Lister-Bristol was not there which made me quite happy because Billy had conveniently brought a set of trade plates with him and I was supposed to drive the Lister-Bristol from Oulton to Motherwell which I did not fancy as we did not have motorways back then.

[David McKinney]

OK McKinney.........you want more ? how about racing a Jowett Jupiter in Silverstone saloon race or a Jowet Jupiter in the Ulster Trophy or TT ...etc.et.

If it's a fight you want, how about a Jowett Javelin in the Silverstone saloon race

[Allan Lupton]

Appropriate to the thread, as a young man he raced a Lea-Francis special at Winfield (in the land of the Scots) in 1951, then brought it south for the 1952 International Trophy in which, unsurprisingly, he was not placed.

Then acquired from the factory one of the three single-seater F2 Frazer Nashes and took it to fifth place in the Wakefield Trophy at the Curragh. Entered the same car in the 1953 International Trophy, but this time didn't start

And that's about it, really

And the Skelly Lea-Francis special was seen at VSCC Silverstone in April as it now is, rebuilt by Ivan Dutton. Its photo appeared in the appropriate thread of this Forum but here it is again:
Too wide so click here, sorry

Also, anent the RBL, my note in the Lea-Francis OC magazine of October 1995 says . . from Kenneth Rose we have been sent photos of the R.B.L. (Rose-Baird-Lea-Francis), a press cutting from The Autocar of 13th May 1949 and a few notes: “Gilbert Baird was a director of Barratt and Baird who were big wholesale butchers and he died in 1993. Gil supplied the single seater racing chassis minus engine and rear suspension. Harold Richards designed and made the rear suspension. Lea-Francis installed the 1½ litre with 4 Amals".

Edited by Allan Lupton, 11 July 2010 - 15:12.

[RTH]

Gil Baird was the power behind the Techspeed F3 team right up to his death.

[Graham Gauld]

If it's a fight you want, how about a Jowett Javelin in the Silverstone saloon race

How about that. And for the record this is what it looked like at Dundrod.


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

This was taken at Silverstone of the Lea Francis in action



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

By Jupiter I must reach for my Javelin.

[Allan Lupton]

This was taken at Silverstone of the Lea Francis in action



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Can't see it clearly enough to know which Lea-Francis that might be and it doesn't enlarge when I click on it like some photos seem to - doesn't look like the Skelly car to me, or the RBL.

Edited by Allan Lupton, 11 July 2010 - 21:16.

[Doug Nye]

I have owned the 1950 Hallam Special for about 25 years now - built by Harry Hallam (a founder of the Midlands Motor Enthusiasts' Club, I believe) initially with a Fiat engine, later fitted with a Leaf unit...and cooled by a cut-down E-Type ERA radiator acquired from Reg Parnell.

DCN

[Graham Gauld]

Can't see it clearly enough to know which Lea-Francis that might be and it doesn't enlarge when I click on it like some photos seem to - doesn't look like the Skelly car to me, or the RBL.

I am sorry for the quality but I had to photograph the photo as it was done before scanners were invented. Here is another photo of Billy in the Lea Francis which might give a better idea.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

[Allan Lupton]

I am sorry for the quality but I had to photograph the photo as it was done before scanners were invented. Here is another photo of Billy in the Lea Francis which might give a better idea.

That looks more like the car I remember.
I first came across it in about 1958 when it was in the hands of someone living in North London who used it as a road and rally car. As the latter it was rather too noisy with only a couple of motorcycle silencers which were nowhere near man enough for the job. Marshalling somewhere near Long Crendon around 11 p.m. we could hear it arrive and depart from the previous Control some 15 minutes before it got to us.
By 1963 it was owned by Ian Melville-Brown (who may have been the noisy rallyist - I am not quite sure what I remember!) and we found it to have Chassis No. 7098 of the 14 h.p. Sports sequence of Lea-Francis numbers.
Recently it was in Ivan Dutton's hands and we had hoped that he'd race it himself after it was rebuilt, but he's sold it on.

[Graham Gauld]

That looks more like the car I remember.
I first came across it in about 1958 when it was in the hands of someone living in North London who used it as a road and rally car. As the latter it was rather too noisy with only a couple of motorcycle silencers which were nowhere near man enough for the job. Marshalling somewhere near Long Crendon around 11 p.m. we could hear it arrive and depart from the previous Control some 15 minutes before it got to us.
By 1963 it was owned by Ian Melville-Brown (who may have been the noisy rallyist - I am not quite sure what I remember!) and we found it to have Chassis No. 7098 of the 14 h.p. Sports sequence of Lea-Francis numbers.
Recently it was in Ivan Dutton's hands and we had hoped that he'd race it himself after it was rebuilt, but he's sold it on.

Interesting stuff Allan. I never knew what happened to it after it was sold to finance the Formula II Frazer Nash. I have a very good photo of the chassis and engine when it was new which I will seek out. It was a very well built car and certainly not a scruffy special.

[RTH]

I have asked the BRDC to pass on this link to Billy in the hope that he might be able to become a contributor to this.