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'Bastardised' racing cars


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#51 Stephen W

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Posted 10 April 2009 - 10:24

Originally posted by ianselva
Surely this leads back to the ' HMSA (Historic Modsports and Saloon Association) to allow any engine into Historics!' topic.


Not necessarily as a lot of these engine &/or gearbox conversions were done in period and raced as such in period.

:wave:

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#52 ianselva

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Posted 10 April 2009 - 11:47

But who is going to race an outdated engine /gearbox which must be more difficult to get spares for, and consign themselves to the back of the grid ,when they can use a modern equivalent .
Can't see the point myself , either race a Historic car or race a modern one , you may as well race those historic looking single seaters that Tom Wheatcroft had built and pretend its a 250F

#53 Duc-Man

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Posted 10 April 2009 - 11:49

Would the Holman & Moody McLaren M6B with the 429 Ford count as a bastard?

#54 Richard Young

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Posted 10 April 2009 - 16:11

Are projects like these 'bastards' when cunstructors themselves are involved.
If things I've read here and there are correct - and very possibly they aren't - was there not a Porsche chassis which became a Jaguar and ultimately a Mazda during the GPC era ?
Maybe not.........

#55 Richard Young

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Posted 10 April 2009 - 16:12

Oops ! Can't spell constructors properly today .....

#56 jph

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Posted 10 April 2009 - 16:34

Originally posted by Richard Young
Are projects like these 'bastards' when cunstructors themselves are involved.
If things I've read here and there are correct - and very possibly they aren't - was there not a Porsche chassis which became a Jaguar and ultimately a Mazda during the GPC era ?
Maybe not.........


Slightly different order: Jaguar morphed into Mazda and then (sans roof) Porsche.

#57 idrive

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Posted 10 April 2009 - 19:57

I remember a Formula Ford - I think a Dulon - racing on 1/4 mile ovals out here (Afrique du Sud) complete with a massive crudely welded on roll cage.

Then there was a McLaren M10b F/5000 in Smith's Wheels colours plying its trade on drag strips.

#58 Ray Bell

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Posted 10 April 2009 - 21:24

Originally posted by Graham Clayton
Doug McDonald - Bugatti/Dodge - Leyburn, 1949
L Robinson - Bugatti/Dodge - Nuriootpa, 1950 (are these two entries the same car?).....


No, they're not the same car... the Leyburn car was a car that remained in Queensland...

Others... oh, there are others:

John Cummins' independent front end (Bellamy) Bugatti with Holden engine.

The Jack Saywell Nomotore Alfa Tipo B had a succession of engines in the fifties, the heavy and useless Bill Murray Alvis 4.2, then a slightly more successful GMC truck engine inserted by logging contractor Ray Wamsley. Finally it really got cracking when Wamsley slipped a Corvette into it.

Aussie Miller's Cooper Corvette, which held the Australian Land Speed Record for a while.

When Alan Jones (The Alan Jones, Austin Healey officianado and sadly killed c1978 in a road accident) bought his Austin Healey 100S from the US it came with a Corvette in it. I don't think it was the only 100S to get this treatment over there either.

The Petticoat Special, based on a 1935 Terraplane, reverted to its Propert sports car body in the sixties and grew a 292 Ford V8. That was a bastardisation further bastardised, I guess.

The Graeme Lowe Alta spent some mid-fifties time with a Peugeot 203 front suspension and an Austin A90 4-cyl engine on board.

John Schroder squeezed a BOP aluminium V8 into the ex-Leaton Motors Lotus 15. This is the car Paul Samuels later raced in Historics, it only ran a couple of times with the V8 circa 1965/6.

Whether or not you consider it 'bastardisation' is a matter of personal choice, but the 1922 Targa Florio Ballot that ran at Phillip Island blew its engine while being prepared for Lake Perkollili in 1936. It had already had its chassis replaced with that of a Chev 4 after killing its owner at Phillip Island and several other changes had been made. A Ford V8 was added, then it was twice rebodied before a succession of other engines found their way into it. Finally it was Chev V8-powered when it flipped on the straight at Caversham and killed its final owner.

There's a Bugatti that lived on with an Anzani engine... a lot of Bugattis had transplants because of the frailty of the original crankshafts. Ford V8-powered examples include the T39 that became Jack Murray's Day Special... Jack Day had fitted the Ford but I believe Murray refined the car considerably. The Mackellar V8 is another such.

Just where you draw the line to consider a car 'bastardised' is quite a question. When Rex Law bought the 1911 Regal Underslung-based Special built by Herb Avery it already had Austin 20 running gear from the engine back. He later fitted an Austin 6 ohv engine from a truck, but when he was unhappy with that and found himself in the possession of some Cadillac V8s to run in his fleet of 'buses had Allen Larsen fit one to use in the 1949 Australian GP. The Caddy engine remained for the life of the car, until about 1953, but a succession of rear axles and gearboxes followed depending on whims and where he was racing and a more streamlined nose was added. I'd call that 'ongoing development'.

And did Eldred Norman 'bastardise' the 6c Maserati he had? Purchased with a blown engine, he cast a fresh one in bronze. As winter encroached, Nancy begged him to stop working on it in the cold nights in his shed, to 'bring it inside'... so the kitchen window was removed to crane it inside and the French Polished dining table received as a wedding present was used as a bench.

Whatever bits were needed he made, but con-rods were more difficult... he found that some late model (in 1951) Singer rods were the right size so tried to buy some. None were available locally, so he had a friend then in England get some and post them to him. I seem to recall he also increased the level of supercharging, maybe double-staged it? It certainly wasn't any longer as it left the factory.

John McCormack's M23 could hardly have been said to have been 'bastardised' when he put the Leyland P76 V8 into it, the thing flew, it was all done with a view to being able to reverse the process and the car was returned to Cosworth form in the end.

Allan Hamilton's M26, however, was seriously altered to take the Chevy. It also had much in the way of additional 'ground effects' work done on it.

Many air cooled Coopers grew a range of engines that were no longer air cooled. I feel sure that the Cooper Minx was among them (McGuires'?), while one of these cars probably proved to be one of the most 'bastardised' cars ever.

Take a Cooper, cut the chassis and lengthen it, move the driver back to where the engine was, slip a supercharged MG engine up front, add an early Peugeot 203 steering rack and rebody... a very rapid motor car!

#59 Ron B.

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Posted 11 April 2009 - 21:36

Ray,there was also the Chev powered Buggatti Chassis that was raced in NSW in the 1960's at the drags . It was a pretty thing with all sorts of polished and rechromed brackets all over it. I am a bit vague on it,but I think the owner was a mr Smith(?) .I no longer have any photo's of it, but being such an impressive looking thing there must be pictures somewhere.

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#60 Ron B.

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Posted 11 April 2009 - 21:45

Originally posted by WDH74
I'm not sure it counts, but didn't Briggs Cunningham run a Healey Silverstone with a Cadillac mill stuffed under the bonnet? Healeys installed the motor, but I'm reasonably sure it wasn't in the catalog....but I suppose the Bu-Merc wouldn't qualify either, being more of a hotrod than a simple motor swap.

Another American concoction I can think of is the Chuck Porter Mercedes-Benz 300 SLS, which was built up from a wrecked Gullwing. After being decapitated and straightened out, the SLS started racing with its original motor, eventually getting first a Buick, then Chevy V-8. I think this car still exists, but can't remember at the moment.

Along similar lines, one of Max Balchowsky's Ol' Yellers was built up from the remains of an E-Type Jaguar, but I forget which one. (Yeller VIII?).

-William

Chuck Porter is famous for his stunning abilities with body work and the restoration of 3/4 midgetrs until his death in the 1980's. His SLS is restored and running in historics in Europe etc. ....I have a mate who has a Gullwing chassis ;) which prompted me to look for pictures some time back of the Porter SLS and found that his Daughter ,Debbie,has set up a nice site with lots of pictures of it. Hardly a basterdisation though. Check out some his opposition in the races he entered and you will see many examples of 'development in progress"..

Chuck Porter web site
The Present owner of the SLS also has a dedicated site for the car.

Porter Special

#61 ggnagy

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Posted 12 April 2009 - 01:44

I forget the time period when it happened, but in order to counteract dropping entries, the SCCA allowed single seater Sports Racers to be built for CSR and DSR. It then become quite popular to modify older formula cars and clothe them in full bodywork. Alot of Formula Fords ended up with 1 Liter bike engines in the rear for DSR, and many ex Formula Atlantics appeared with not just their original FA motors, but other CSR appropriate engines, including Mazda Rotaries. Most of those cars have, unfortunately, become somewhat uncompetitive again, as bespoke cars like the Stohr were built to the limit of the rules and have dominated the classes.

#62 leestohr

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Posted 12 April 2009 - 04:13

Very true.

#63 cooper997

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Posted 12 April 2009 - 04:16

Originally posted by Ron B.
Ray,there was also the Chev powered Buggatti Chassis that was raced in NSW in the 1960's at the drags . It was a pretty thing with all sorts of polished and rechromed brackets all over it. I am a bit vague on it,but I think the owner was a mr Smith(?) .I no longer have any photo's of it, but being such an impressive looking thing there must be pictures somewhere.


Ron, Whether it ran in NSW I can't tell you, but Earl Davey-Milne still has his highly polished and rechromed Bugatti-Corvette in Victoria. He used it for drags and hillclimbs. It appears on the cover of an early 1960's Australian Motor Sport magazine. He's had it since the 1940's. Previous to the Corvette engine he had a Hudson in it.

Earl also owns Jack Brabham's 'Redex Special' Cooper-Bristol. It too has Corvette power that Tom Hawkes began fitting in the late 1950's, after the Holden transplant was deemed inadequate. It then moved to Ern Seelinger, who advertised it in AMS April 62 at 1100 (Aus) quid with trailer. It finally fired up under Corvette-power for an AGP Historic demonstration at Melbourne in 1996 or 97.

Stephen

#64 cm50

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Posted 12 April 2009 - 08:14

Another Kiwi bastardised car was a certain HCM-FVA which was many renditions short of the original lotus 20/22. Transformed over a few years by the father of a certain World Touring Car champion. Really ugly!!

#65 Vicuna

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Posted 13 April 2009 - 09:45

Wow, I'd forgotten all about starting this.

Has a Jag powered Bugatti been mentioned?

#66 David McKinney

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Posted 13 April 2009 - 11:07

Originally posted by cm50
Another Kiwi bastardised car was a certain HCM-FVA which was many renditions short of the original lotus 20/22. Transformed over a few years by the father of a certain World Touring Car champion. Really ugly!!

They say beauty is in the eye of the beholder and I guess ugliness is too. The HCM's frontal section was unusual but I wouldn't describe the car as ugly ;)

Posted Image

Apologies for the quality :)

#67 DOF_power

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Posted 13 April 2009 - 11:29

>
^ "Bastardized" racing cars ?!

All F1 GP cars after 1993.

#68 Ron B.

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 02:20

Originally posted by Vicuna
Wow, I'd forgotten all about starting this.

Has a Jag powered Bugatti been mentioned?

Ron Roycrofts? and don't forget his single seater Ferrari built from a coupe....in which he almost killed himself with heat exhaustion in the 1957 NZGP. Posted Image
http://www.sergent.com.au/picgal.html
One who raced against Ron Roycroft in 1957 was Ted Thompson From Kumeu who entered the NZGP with a type 38 buggatti with a flathead Ford but didn't Qualify.. Ron Roycorofts jag powered Buggatti was driven in the same race by Peter Gendells who finished 11th.
It was also the race in which Ken Wharton was killed.

I had a few dealings with Ted in his later years as he balanced a few of my engines,there was also a guy who ground cams who dealt with Ted,but i can't remember his name. I haven't any idea of the profiles ( probably copied) but they cost $2.50 a lobe..;)

#69 David McKinney

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 06:54

Roycroft's Ferrari was built into, not from a coupé. It had started as an F1 car, then been rebodied as a sportscar before its importation, then rebodied in its original form, as depicted. It was only after it had been retired from the circuits that it formed the basis of a Jaguar-powered GT car

I'm sure Ted Thompson raced against Roycroft, but not in the 1957 GP

The driver of the Bugatti-Jaguar was Peter Gendall, not Gendells, and certainly not Yendells as in the race programme

Ken Wharton wasn't killed in that race, but in the sportscar race at the same meeting

Apart from that, your facts are spot on :D

#70 Milan Fistonic

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 08:12

I was just checking the 1957 NZIGP entry list in the programme and saw something I had never noticed before. Or if I had I must have forgotten all about it.

Roycroft's Ferrari was entered as the BP Special.

#71 hiteknz

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 08:59

Originally posted by Milan Fistonic
I was just checking the 1957 NZIGP entry list in the programme and saw something I had never noticed before. Or if I had I must have forgotten all about it.

Roycroft's Ferrari was entered as the BP Special.


Yes Milan,that is right Ron was a BP driver ,you will also see him in a lot of the BP adds in the Newspapers back then ,I don't have his book handy,but I believe there is some mention of what he got from BP,or maybe it is somewhere else I have seen mention of it
Bob

#72 David McKinney

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 09:33

I believe there was also a BP film of the 1957 NZ GP, featuring the aforementioned BP Special

In the same race the Bug-Jag was entered as an RJR Special (of which there were several others :) )

#73 hiteknz

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 09:43

Originally posted by David McKinney
I believe there was also a BP film of the 1957 NZ GP, featuring the aforementioned BP Special

In the same race the Bug-Jag was entered as an RJR Special (of which there were several others :) )

David ,just thinking about Roycroft and BP back in that era ,did Mobil use the Stanton's in their adds as well
Bob

#74 David McKinney

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 11:57

I don't remember, Bob - but it doesn't sound wrong :)

#75 wenoopy

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 10:20

New Zealanders would no doubt remember Bryce Webster's Cooper-Porsche (sometimes referred to as the "Pooper").

This was a Cooper Mk VII in which Webster replaced the JAP engine with a 1582 cc Porsche motor from a Super 90. Webster ran it quite successfully, and it didn't look too outlandish - even when fitted with knobbly rear tyres by next owner Roy Lyme for hill-climbing on loose surfaces. Lyme was NZ Hillclimb champion twice in the 1960's with it.

#76 Ken Herd

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 21:45

Originally posted by ggnagy
I forget the time period when it happened, but in order to counteract dropping entries, the SCCA allowed single seater Sports Racers to be built for CSR and DSR. It then become quite popular to modify older formula cars and clothe them in full bodywork. Alot of Formula Fords ended up with 1 Liter bike engines in the rear for DSR, and many ex Formula Atlantics appeared with not just their original FA motors, but other CSR appropriate engines, including Mazda Rotaries. Most of those cars have, unfortunately, become somewhat uncompetitive again, as bespoke cars like the Stohr were built to the limit of the rules and have dominated the classes.


There was a RT20 Ralt for sale in Aust. a couple of years ago with a Mazda rotary engine.

#77 Terry Walker

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Posted 17 April 2009 - 06:08

Cars can be de-barstardised, too. The 1930s Bartlett Spl, which came to Western Australia in 1936, raced until WW2, then again afterwards. In the 50s the Salsmon twincam went phut, and a Vanguard grafted in its place by then own Alan Macintosh. When Alan stopped racing he kept the car, and years later his son has restored it beautifully - and with the right twin-cam Salmson engine.

Ex UK, 1930s: Clem Dyer (not to be confised with Clem Dwyer) in the cockpit. And Brooklands silencer.

Posted Image

After restoration, at the Northam 'round the houses" meeting, 2009:

Posted Image

Posted Image

#78 Joe Bosworth

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Posted 18 April 2009 - 07:48

Zerex Duralite Special :clap:

#79 Manuel B

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Posted 18 April 2009 - 16:26

Jaguar XKD 538 finished 3rd at 12 hours of Sebring in 1956 driven by Jack Ensley and Bob Sweikert, then had a Corvette engine installed, pictures and story from a 1959 magazine here,
http://www.jag-lover...3?id=1102809271

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#80 David Manton

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Posted 22 May 2009 - 16:18

Have I got this right? :confused: There's three cars:

A 4.5 litre Ferrari 375 rebodied as a roadgoing GT by Ferris de Joux

A 555 Super Squalo rebodied with a Morris Minor body as the "Morrari" racing saloon. Did this have a 750 Monza engine or is that a different car? Later had a V8 Chevrolet. Is that correct? Did the Morris Minor body come first?

The Pat Hoare Dino 246 1960 Monza winning car, re-engined at the factory with a 3 litre V12 Testa Rossa engine. This was later rebodied with a 250 GTO-like GT body as a road car, in which form Jackie Stewart drove it. Bought by Neil Corner and returned to single seater form.

So which car in which form was Charlotte?



Have any photographs survived of these three cars in their roadgoing form? I'm seeking photos for my upcoming book on Pat Hoare and classic Italian racing cars in New Zealand.

Ferris de Joux did a superb job with the fiberglass-bodied GT bodywork he produced for the ex-Roycroft 375 Ferrari. I remember Tony Shelly studying the car intently at Pukekohe and raving about it to everyone who walked by...Years later in retirement at Lake Taupo he would still talk about the workmanship of that rebodied car.

The V8-powered Morrari was VERY spectacular coming up over the hill before the pits at Pukekohe with Garth Souness apearing to fight it all the way...Remember that?

The Pat Hoare and Logan Fow (the "Charlotte" era) families and others including Graham Gauld and Neil Corner have been most helpful with photos and information on the Dino 246. However I'm still seeking additional photographs. Especially seeking shots taken in the pits of Pat Hoare with any of his racing cars in New Zealand or during his one racing visit to Australia wih the ex-F1 car, or additional photos of this car in its road-going form.

cheers,
David Manton

#81 David McKinney

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Posted 22 May 2009 - 17:35

I don't think the Morrari was ever a roadgoing car, but I know what you mean :)

I'll email some leads to you

#82 brooster51

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Posted 23 May 2009 - 05:19

George Follmer winning the USRRC in a Lotus 23 - Porsche 904? Maybe shouldn't call it 'bastardized' but certainly 'sanitary'.

#83 drivers71

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Posted 23 May 2009 - 07:23

I'm not sure it counts, but didn't Briggs Cunningham run a Healey Silverstone with a Cadillac mill stuffed under the bonnet? Healeys installed the motor, but I'm reasonably sure it wasn't in the catalog....but I suppose the Bu-Merc wouldn't qualify either, being more of a hotrod than a simple motor swap.
-William


William

I believe the Cunningham Healey was supplied without an engine (the only such one without engine). Frick-Tappett installed the Caddy engine. As it was reasonably successful, Geoff Healey (Donald's son) installed a Cadillac engine in a second Silverstone chassis in England where he used it successfully in hillclimbs, before selling it to a sportsman in Portugal.
Following this, Donald set off for the USA, for discussions with Cadillac regarding a supply of further engines.
While on-board the Queen Elizabeth, Donald had a chance meeting with the President of the Nash-Kelvinator Corporation
(George Mason) and struck-up a friendship. After learning the reason for Healey's visit, Mason asked him to look him up, if the Cadillac meeting was negative.
It was; he did; and the Nash-Healeys resulted.

Rich

#84 petestenning

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Posted 14 June 2009 - 19:04

Allen may know of this car but there is an entry in one of my programmes for a---------
Cooper Plymouth Entrant A.W.Reynolds, driver P Robinson, Engine size 5211cc
Dec 26th 1963 at Malory Park a BRSCC meeting.


Pete

#85 T54

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Posted 14 June 2009 - 19:20

Cooper-Climax T54 to Cooper-Aston Martin lump to Cooper-Ford V8 to Cooper-Chevrolet to "Special-Chevrolet, back to Cooper-Climax T54 in a 30-year span...

Brabham-Climax BT8 SC-64-07 to Brabham-Oldsmobile V8 to Brabham-Ford V8 to Brabham-Porsche, back to Brabham-Climax in a 25-year span...

Yes, bastards-a-plenty! :love:

#86 Allen Brown

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Posted 14 June 2009 - 20:52

Allen may know of this car but there is an entry in one of my programmes for a---------
Cooper Plymouth Entrant A.W.Reynolds, driver P Robinson, Engine size 5211cc
Dec 26th 1963 at Malory Park a BRSCC meeting.


Pete

No Pete, I don't know that one. Philip Robinson maybe? He ran a Lotus 18 in minor F1 races in 1963 and later ran in F2. The Christmas Trophy race at Mallory was won by John Taylor in Bob Gerard's Cooper FJ Mk III from Dickie Attwood in a Lola Mk 5A. There were also two mystery Cooper-Climaxes in that race, one for Mo Nunn and another for Alan Eccles. Eccles later put a 5-litre-ish Chevrolet in his. That's all I know. An entry list could be fascinating.

That sounds like a very interesting catalogue you are putting together.


#87 petestenning

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Posted 14 June 2009 - 21:04

No Pete, I don't know that one. Philip Robinson maybe? He ran a Lotus 18 in minor F1 races in 1963 and later ran in F2. The Christmas Trophy race at Mallory was won by John Taylor in Bob Gerard's Cooper FJ Mk III from Dickie Attwood in a Lola Mk 5A. There were also two mystery Cooper-Climaxes in that race, one for Mo Nunn and another for Alan Eccles. Eccles later put a 5-litre-ish Chevrolet in his. That's all I know. An entry list could be fascinating.

That sounds like a very interesting catalogue you are putting together.


My programme entries below

Race 4 Christmas Trophy race Single Seaters 20 Laps
1 A W Reynolds P Robinson Cooper Plymouth 5211
2 Gerard Racing John Taylor Cooper Ford 1650
3 Ecurie Red Rose David Bridges Lotus Ford 1558
4 A Lovejoy Lotus Climax 1475
5 B H Griffin E Minihan Lotus Ford 1475
6 Mo Nunn Cooper Climax 1475
7 Alan Eccles Cooper Climax 1475
8 Peter Moeller Fafnir 1475
9 E T Ogilvie-Hardy Project X 1172
10 H C Goodwin John Cardwell Cooper Ford 1098
11 Sports Motors Manchester K F Oldham Lotus Ford 1098
12 Richard Attwood Lola Ford 1098
14 R Burton Lotus Ford 997
15 Sports Motors Ltd W J Morgans Brabham Ford 997
2 ?
Reserves
16 D P Baker TBN Lola Ford 1098
17 M W Davies Lotus Ford 1098
46 Roger Mac Brabham Ford 1475

Edited by petestenning, 14 June 2009 - 21:07.


#88 Allen Brown

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Posted 14 June 2009 - 21:29

My programme entries below

Race 4 Christmas Trophy race Single Seaters 20 Laps
1 A W Reynolds P Robinson Cooper Plymouth 5211
2 Gerard Racing John Taylor Cooper Ford 1650
3 Ecurie Red Rose David Bridges Lotus Ford 1558
4 A Lovejoy Lotus Climax 1475
5 B H Griffin E Minihan Lotus Ford 1475
6 Mo Nunn Cooper Climax 1475
7 Alan Eccles Cooper Climax 1475
8 Peter Moeller Fafnir 1475
9 E T Ogilvie-Hardy Project X 1172
10 H C Goodwin John Cardwell Cooper Ford 1098
11 Sports Motors Manchester K F Oldham Lotus Ford 1098
12 Richard Attwood Lola Ford 1098
14 R Burton Lotus Ford 997
15 Sports Motors Ltd W J Morgans Brabham Ford 997
2 ?
Reserves
16 D P Baker TBN Lola Ford 1098
17 M W Davies Lotus Ford 1098
46 Roger Mac Brabham Ford 1475

Fascinating! I believe Roger Mac's Brabham was a BT2 but may more of these cars are mysteries - including the two F1-spec Coopers. David Bridges lists his engine as 1558cc which means a twin-cam to me so maybe a Lotus 22. The Sports Motors Brabham FJ is also a mystery - there reallyt weren't than many Brabham in existence by Christmas 1963.

Got many more like this?


#89 petestenning

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Posted 14 June 2009 - 21:40

Fascinating! I believe Roger Mac's Brabham was a BT2 but may more of these cars are mysteries - including the two F1-spec Coopers. David Bridges lists his engine as 1558cc which means a twin-cam to me so maybe a Lotus 22. The Sports Motors Brabham FJ is also a mystery - there reallyt weren't than many Brabham in existence by Christmas 1963.

Got many more like this?



I will dig out the programme in the morning and see what else i can gleam from it .

I am starting a personal archive of meetings mainly club but some internationals from my programme collections the main problem is in the early ones they only put the drivers initials and i have been searching websites trying to identify those i dont know .


Pete

#90 Allen Brown

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Posted 14 June 2009 - 21:46

I will dig out the programme in the morning and see what else i can gleam from it .

I am starting a personal archive of meetings mainly club but some internationals from my programme collections the main problem is in the early ones they only put the drivers initials and i have been searching websites trying to identify those i dont know .


Pete

Happy to help you Pete. I have a database of 1,610 club libre races and over 5000 drivers. Email me at allen@oldracingcars.com if I can help at all.

Edited by Allen Brown, 14 June 2009 - 21:50.


#91 David McKinney

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Posted 14 June 2009 - 22:01

Phil Robinson still attends Silverstone historic meetings on a regular basis

#92 petestenning

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Posted 15 June 2009 - 06:26

The Alan Eccles Cooper Climax is also in a Mallory programme from the Year before 6th August 1962 along with John Taylor's Cooper.Brian Hart's Lotus 20 ,Graham Eden, Lotus or Emeryson/ Chris Summer's Cooper Chevrolet and a mystery to me

143- G Hocking ? The bike rider from ZA? in entrants J . Swift's Lotus F1 no engine size listed .



Pete

#93 David McKinney

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Posted 15 June 2009 - 07:49

Gary Hocking the bike rider was racing on four wheels at that time
But he didn't come from ZA :)

#94 Allen Brown

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Posted 15 June 2009 - 19:44

It was certainly Gary Hocking but Paddy McNally in Autosport clearly wasn't familiar with the same and just called him G Hocking. The Lotus is a mystery; McNally said it was a 1961 F1 Lotus so presumably a re-engined 18, not a 21. Brian Hart's Lotus 20 was a 1.5-litre and won easily. Taylor's FJ Cooper, which had earlier dominated the FJ race, was second with Summers third. Eden isn't mentioned but his Lotus would have been an 18, chassis 909 then owned by Gerry Ashmore.

EDIT: Gary Hocking had a run in Tim Parnell's Lotus 18 [P2] at Roskilde 26 Aug 1962 so could this have been a practice run in that car?

ANOTHER EDIT: According to Autosport's Roskilde (Copenhagen GP) report, Hocking has bought the Lotus 18 from Parnell. It's the car that then goes to Clive Puzey so this all makes sense.

Edited by Allen Brown, 15 June 2009 - 20:02.


#95 petestenning

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Posted 15 June 2009 - 20:38

Thanks for your help here are two more ,

Brands Hatch 1966 27th November London motor club meeting.

no 1 Entrant Syd Segal Driver TBN /McLaren Elva 4770 cc

no 8 Entrant Charles Lucas Engineering Driver TBN/ Lotus Martin V8 2997 cc

I may be wrong and these could be Sports cars but as n model is listed it makes i hard to tell .

Here is the Full list ;-

Race 8 The November Trophy Race For Formule Libre 20 Laps
1 Syd Segal TBN McLaren Elva 4770
2 Robin Darlington Lola T70 MK2 5400
3 Terry Ogilvie-Hardy Project XR 1498
4 Motor Racing Stables Harry Stiller Brabham 997
5 Motor Racing Stables Tony Lanfranchi Brabham 997
6 Keith St John Tony Trimmer Brabham 997
7 Trevor Howard Elva BMW 1997 RES1
8 Charles Lucas Eng.Ltd TBN Lotus Martin V8 2997
9 B.P.G. Engineering Co. Rod Pickering Lotus 22 1598
10 Drummond Racing Org. Rollo Fielding Brabham 997
11 Walter Donnelly Brabham 997
12 Motor Racing Stables Chris Smith Brabham 997
14 Bob Littler Cooper 3a 1598
15 Alex Trotter Brabham 997
16 Chris Lawrence Chris Spender Lola 1096
17 Leonard Selby Brabham 997
18 George Lewis Mallock U2MK6 1500
19 John Dillamore Lotus XI 1098
20 John Dillamore Tony Houghton Macon 9a 997
21 David Powell Brabham BT14 1500
22 Len Holland Lola RB2 998
23 Mike Wooley Condor 1500 RES4
24 Ron Pringle Crossle 997 RES5
26 John Burton Brabham BT8 1930 RES2
27 Jem Developments Ltd Jeremy Delmar-Morgan Ginetta G12 1998 RES3





#96 Allen Brown

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Posted 15 June 2009 - 20:50

I'm not sure either of those cars turned up. The McLaren-Elva would be a M1A or a M1B - I'll leave that to the Mclaren experts. Charlie Lucas's car was a Lotus 35.

#97 Chris Townsend

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Posted 15 June 2009 - 22:12

Stiller Brabham BT18
Lanfranchi Brabham BT18
Trimmer Brabham BT15?
Feilding Brabham BT18 but probably DNA as didn't appear for F3 race though entered
Donnelly Brabham BT18 but also failed to appear for F3
Trotter, Brabham BT10
Selby Brabham BT18 of Team Promecon



#98 petestenning

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Posted 16 June 2009 - 06:40

With your help that just leaves these cars to identify;-

Tony Howard -Elva BMW ? MK7? 1997cc
Chris Lawrence/Chris Spender-Lola 1096cc 'Lola MK1' ?
Ron Pringle- Crossle 997cc
Mike Wooley-Condor 1500cc




Pete

#99 wildman

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Posted 16 June 2009 - 17:41

Slightly different order: Jaguar morphed into Mazda and then (sans roof) Porsche.

Just to clarify, while the XJR-14 begat both the Mazda MXR-01 and the Porsche WSC-95, the latter two are separate branches of the same family tree. I'm sure you didn't mean to imply that the Porsche evolved from the Mazda.

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#100 petestenning

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Posted 19 June 2009 - 08:05

125 Jim Charnock Brabham BT21 1600
126 Graham Eden Chevron F2 1931
127 Jack Smith Brabham BT23B 2700
128 Albert Rodgie Lotus 21 4950
129 Doug Hardwick Lola T142 5000

Part of the entry list from Sivlerstone 1969 26th may


Doug Hardwicks is a F5000 Lola
and Jack Smith's Brabham BT23B Repco ? at 2700 cc

And an unknown to me Albert Rodgie 5000 cc Lotus 21


Pete

Edited by petestenning, 19 June 2009 - 08:06.