27 replies to this topic

[Flaminiasupersport]

Dear Readers,

Yesterday the model I've ordered in America finally got through our customs. It's an awesome 1/12 scale made by Autoart of a Jaguar D-type registered as "OKV 3".
The detail is wonderful, the BRG paint is superb, the fuel cap opens... even the seats are covered in real leather!!! The quality is absolutely stunning, but I think they made one big mistake...

"OKV 3" was the 3rd factory production car, chassis n° XKC 404. A quick search on the Internet and my "Racing Pics File" depicts "OKV 3" as a Shortnose D-type. Autoart's "OKV 3" is a Longnose D-type.... Was "OKV 3" ever fitted with a Longnose bonnet?

Autoart states it replicates the 1954 Reims winning car driven by Whitehead/Wharton. Is it possible "OKV 3" received a "Longnose" bonnet? Reims was after all a high speed circuit and maybe Jaguar tested this "Longnose" conversion for the 1955 race at Le Mans the year after... or is Autoart completely wrong? The model comes with a Jaguar "Factory Approved" certificate too. Unfortunately I cannot find any pictures of the 1954 Reims Grand Prix where the Jaguar is clearly visible.

By the end of this year "774 RW", the 1955 Le Mans (XKD 505) winner driven by Hawthorn/Bueb will be released. That was definitely a "Longnose" D-type and I hope it will have a 4 spoke steering wheel as Hawthorn's cars often had. This model (apart from the steering wheel maybe) will be correct and an absolute stunner for all "nostalgia" racing car freaks.

[Tim Murray]

In the 'Cars in Profile' publication on the D-type, by John Appleton, there is a photo of Whitehead crossing the line to win at Reims in OKV3, and it has a short nose. On another page there are a couple of drawings showing the difference between the short- and long-nosed versions, and the car drawn as the example of the short-nosed version is the Reims car.

[Paul Parker]

OKV 3 was/is a 'short nose' car, part of the series of original D types that had a magnesium alloy structure that was integral with the tub rather than the later cars that employed a steel frame that bolted to the front and rear bulkheads and along the floor of the tub.

To the best of my knowledge it has never worn the 'long nose' body configuration (7.5 inches longer with twin front brake ducts and tail exiting exhaust, although the 1955 Cunningham Le Mans entry, XKD 507 had the long nose body but the standard side exhausts.)

These also had a curved dashboard that angled round to the driver just above and in front of the gear lever and were unique to the original works cars that all carried XKC chassis nomenclature bar one. It first appeared at the 1954 TT at Dundrod, one of two (the other being XKC 403) that were running special short stroke (76.5mm) 2.5 litre XK engines to take advantage of the handicap regulations. This was XKD 406 and I believe it still has the curved dash.

Another notable feature was the extra spot light inset into the nose just beneath and over toward the front air intake that can be seen in any of the 1954 Le Mans pics. Further details are that the short nose cars had quite vestigal driver only screens in their original pre-56 regulations guise that did not join up with the tailfin on the offside.

No 'long nose' cars had the front spotlight as improvements in the lighting equipment for 1955 (bigger dynamo and 100 watt bulbs) made this redundant. So if it does not have any of these distinguishing features and without seeing the model it sounds as if Autoart have used the same body shell for both cars. If so this a very bad mistake.

As a footnote I did see an illustration in a catalogue about 9 months ago depicting the '55 Le Mans car (XKD 505) and that looked OK superficially.

[Malcolm Page]

OKV 3 or XKC 404 which was factory restamped to XKD 404.
This car forms part of the Mallya Collection, which I curate and manage. The car is and always has been a SHORT NOSE. The car has had one or two small crashes during it's life but the nose has never been damaged enough to require replacement there are many difference on the car to the later and none works cars some mentioned by Paul. The car is kept in sausalito CA USA now and some of the history can be found on our web at, WWW.mallyacollection.com

[raceannouncer2003]

Malcolm

Wow! I must confess I haven't heard of this collection before...is it open to the public? Are some of the cars raced at historic events? And the cars can be rented??? Can you actually rent some of them to drive? Or are they rented for displays, etc?

Vince Howlett, Victoria, B.C., Canada

[Flaminiasupersport]

Thanks for the interesting replies.

Now I need to find out if there was ever a race where a BRG Longnose D-type wore racenumber 3, check that car's license number and skip the "OKV 3" license plate!

Autoart has a real stunner in their 1/12th D-type. But why they had to pick out that silly "OKV 3" story really bothers me. They should have painted their Longnose D-type blue and deliver it under the "Ecurie Ecosse" livery, that would have been great.

Well, let's hope Autoart corrects this error soon!

[doc knutsen]

Originally posted by Flaminiasupersport
Dear Readers,

Yesterday the model I've ordered in America finally got through our customs. It's an awesome 1/12 scale made by Autoart of a Jaguar D-type registered as "OKV 3".
The detail is wonderful, the BRG paint is superb, the fuel cap opens... even the seats are covered in real leather!!! The quality is absolutely stunning, but I think they made one big mistake...

"OKV 3" was the 3rd factory production car, chassis n° XKC 404. A quick search on the Internet and my "Racing Pics File" depicts "OKV 3" as a Shortnose D-type. Autoart's "OKV 3" is a Longnose D-type.... Was "OKV 3" ever fitted with a Longnose bonnet?

Autoart states it replicates the 1954 Reims winning car driven by Whitehead/Wharton. Is it possible "OKV 3" received a "Longnose" bonnet? Reims was after all a high speed circuit and maybe Jaguar tested this "Longnose" conversion for the 1955 race at Le Mans the year after... or is Autoart completely wrong? The model comes with a Jaguar "Factory Approved" certificate too. Unfortunately I cannot find any pictures of the 1954 Reims Grand Prix where the Jaguar is clearly visible.

The 1954 Reims winner, wearing start no 3, was a short-nose. I noticed the Autoart advert for the model, and thought the model depicted was a long nose, ie 1955 car, and that Autoart must have made a mistake. Possibly, the Reims winner's livery with a light nose band (in b/w photos it resembles the 1955 Hawthorn/Bueb car) may have confused them....but I would have thought they would do their research properly.
The registration no OKV3 also appeared on the Moss/Walker car at Dundrod in 1954, powered by the 2.5 liter engine, but that car was XKD 406 despite the re.no. Those first short-nose works cars had their light alloy front subrames welded to the main structure, which was pretty impractical in case of a shunt. The 1955 cars had a front subframe brazed together from steel tubing, and it was bolted-on to the main tub, much like the E-type.

[doc knutsen]

Originally posted by Flaminiasupersport
Thanks for the interesting replies.

Now I need to find out if there was ever a race where a BRG Longnose D-type wore racenumber 3, check that car's license number and skip the "OKV 3" license plate!

Autoart has a real stunner in their 1/12th D-type. But why they had to pick out that silly "OKV 3" story really bothers me. They should have painted their Longnose D-type blue and deliver it under the "Ecurie Ecosse" livery, that would have been great.

Must get my hands on that model...but would rather wait for the '55 Le Mans winner.
The Ecosse long-nose cars had different cockpit sections though, with the full-width windscreen as dictated by the 1956 rules revisions. To my mind, the 1955 "single-seater" was the ultimate D-type.
The factory longnose of Fairman/Wharton (XKD 602) at Le Mans in 1956 carried start no 3 (trade plates 351 RW) but again, it was a 1956 car with revised cockpit, full-width screen and passenger side door.

[Flaminiasupersport]

The 1955 Le Mans Winner... Can't wait to get it too! It's said to be available at the end of this year. It will be a great addition to my "Hawthorn memorabilia"!

Hope I'll find one under the Christmas tree! ;-)

[Paul Parker]

Just a few more observations.

Malcom Page writes that OKV 3 "has had one or two small crashes during its life but the nose has never been damaged enough to require replacement..........."

For the record and without running through the car's entire, long and convoluted history that included racing in South Africa by John Love and Neville Austin it was crashed in the Kyalami 9 Hours, probably 1961 then sold to Rondolia Touring Club in December 1961 who starting restoring it. It was bought by Paul Hawkins and imported back to the UK in 1966 who had the rebuild completed by Temple Panels in London.

It was then bought by John Melville-Smith (1967) who crashed it at Prescott so it was sent to Jaguar for another rebuild that was completed in May 1968. Well known and extremely quick historic ace and owner of ERA R11B Martin Morris raced the car in 1969/70/71 for the owner but he crashed it heavily at Snetterton. On the basis of 'You bend it, you mend it' he bought the car and it was rebuilt (again). It was then successfully campaigned for many years by Martin and later his son David. All of this information is a matter of public record and has been recorded in print.

Looking at the picture of the car on Malcom's website I notice that it is still using the post Snetterton crash bonnet with the enlarged and opened out wheel arches that are quite different to the correct shape, and I suspect the wing contours are probably incorrect too. I watched Martin race it many times and it was quite different from its pre-70 form.

This car, like many old racers has been thrashed to death and inevitably shunted on numerous occasions. There is no doubt that it was comprehensively damaged two or three times. To say that the nose has never been damaged enough to require replacement seems unlikely in the circumstances but perhaps it is the original but wrongly re-shaped (maybe this was done deliberately to allow for greater tyre clearance) so I apologise if I've got it wrong.

[Tmeranda]

Originally posted by Malcolm Page
OKV 3 or XKC 404 which was factory restamped to XKD 404.
This car forms part of the Mallya Collection, which I curate and manage. The car is and always has been a SHORT NOSE. The car has had one or two small crashes during it's life but the nose has never been damaged enough to require replacement there are many difference on the car to the later and none works cars some mentioned by Paul. The car is kept in sausalito CA USA now and some of the history can be found on our web at, WWW.mallyacollection.com

Your website says this car has fully independent suspension. I always was told that the D-types had a solid rear axle. Can you help me here. BTW thats a nice collection and website.

[doc knutsen]

Originally posted by Tmeranda


Your website says this car has fully independent suspension. I always was told that the D-types had a solid rear axle. Can you help me here. BTW thats a nice collection and website.

The D-type had a live rear axle, not IRS. The website also claims that the rear discs are mounted inboard...so either the website is wrong, or the car is not what it claims to be.

[Sharman]

I have not looked at the web site mentioned but if Mr Page is the curator of a collection which contains an OKV 3 with independent rear suspension and inboard rear brakes perhaps he could put me in touch with the buyer of the collection. I know where to put my hands on several motor cars which I can personally verify as being genuine absolute fakes my boy only cost you 40 grand fer bof of 'em honest guv'nor straight up I kid you not..........

[D-Type]

Originally posted by doc knutsen


The D-type had a live rear axle, not IRS. The website also claims that the rear discs are mounted inboard...so either the website is wrong, or the car is not what it claims to be.

The description would fit a Lynx, or similar, replica built with E-Type running gear.

My apologies to Lynx if their replicas are closer than that.

[Rob Miller]

The Mallya Collection looks quite interesting.

Where else can you see a Schwinn motorcycle and a Harley-Davidson bicycle.

[Alan Cox]

Vijay Mallya is an Indian brewing tycoon (Kingfisher Breweries) and had some choice racing machinery a few years back including R4D, the Sunbeam Tiger, Vanwall etc., usually raced by John Harper, and I believe they also sponsored the Benetton team in F1.

[doc knutsen]

Originally posted by Sharman
I have not looked at the web site mentioned but if Mr Page is the curator of a collection which contains an OKV 3 with independent rear suspension and inboard rear brakes perhaps he could put me in touch with the buyer of the collection. I know where to put my hands on several motor cars which I can personally verify as being genuine absolute fakes my boy only cost you 40 grand fer bof of 'em honest guv'nor straight up I kid you not..........

More interesting information from the website...the "Jaguarsport" (XJR 15) in the collection apparently has a "fully stressed 6 liter turbo V6", while the Series 3 E-type features a "5.3 liter V12 4 overhead camshaft engine". And dear old OKV3, in addition to having IRS, also features "inborn" rear brakes.
It is said to have been driven by somebody called Sterling Moss at a place called LeMans.

The collection also includes a 1977 F1 Ensign which was driven by "Patrick Tombay, Jackie Ickx and Derrick Daly". . .

[Sharman]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Alan Cox
[B][QUOTE]Vijay Mallya is an Indian brewing tycoon [/QUOTE]

To which the only possible comment is "Goodness Gracious Me " or possibly as Gerry would have said "I'm only here for the beer"

[David Birchall]

Gentlemen, I think you are begining to sound a bit snooty

Perhaps the best thing to do is to email either the museum or Malcolm Page and straighten them out on their descriptions-I am sure they would appreciate that more....

[Malcolm Page]

Well. The number of times I have been on our web site and not noticed that mistake.
I can only think that when they were writing the web up, they had the E Type and D type together and got the E suspension on the D.

The Collection is not open to the public, but if I'm there the door is open to any car people who want come or you can contact me via the web site.

The cars are still raced although not as much as we did in the UK with John Harper.
OKV 3 arrived back in the USA yesterday as Mile Morris (Martins Younger son) and I have just run the car in the Louis Vuitton Boheme classic car run from Budapest to Praque.

Hope this clears things up

[Malcolm Page]

I think you guys should read through the web pages and let me know were else they have mixed things up the XJR 15 engine is out of the XJ220. They have been fixed and thanks

[Mal9444]

Originally posted by Flaminiasupersport
Dear Readers,

Yesterday the model I've ordered in America finally got through our customs. It's an awesome 1/12 scale made by Autoart of a Jaguar D-type registered as "OKV 3".
The detail is wonderful... [but]... "OKV 3" [is] a Shortnose D-type. Autoart's "OKV 3" is a Longnose D-type.... Was "OKV 3" ever fitted with a Longnose bonnet?... By the end of this year "774 RW", the 1955 Le Mans (XKD 505) winner driven by Hawthorn/Bueb will be released. That was definitely a "Longnose" D-type and I hope it will have a 4 spoke steering wheel as Hawthorn's cars often had. This model (apart from the steering wheel maybe) will be correct and an absolute stunner for all "nostalgia" racing car freaks.

Returning to the original query on this thread, and some of the earlier replies - it really is a shame that those who produce these models do not have more respect for those of us who buy them. I have a modest collection of D-type models, mostly 1/43rd scale and all of them are long-nose, despite several claiming to be from 1954, or others that were short-nose. I have models by Autoart, Vitesse and Brum. All long nose cars. The only 1/43rd scale models of short-nose D-types that I have ever found are Dinky (and Crescent) - both of course produced as toys rather than scale-models and so in other respects not that accurate.

The Vitesse models, while lovely in other respects and very accurate. all seem to use the same basic body casting for the nose. The irony is that the Vitesse 1/43rd-scale of OKV2, raced by Moss and Walker at Le Mans in 54, is correct in all other respects, even down to the small windscreen and lower spotlight beside the air intake, and the different fairing and tail-fin from their well-known 774RW model, out for a long-time and easily obtainableon eBay. It even has the curved dashboard described by Doc and Paul Parker - and the Moss three-spoke steering wheel (conspiciously absent on any model, of whatever scale, you ever see of the Mille Miglia 300 SLR, btw).

There is a splendid photo of Moss sheltering under an umbrella in the cockpit of OKV3 just short of the finish line at Dundrod in '54 in Robert Edwards' book Moss (p194) with Peter Walker and a bloke in a PacaMac (remember those?). The scarred, stone-chipped paint-work round the nose gives evidence of just how rough and ready were the road circuits of the time There is also a good Martyn Wainwright action shot in his marvellous Veloce book of OKV3 at the hairpin in that race, before the oil pipie broke. You can see a low-res version here: http://www.motorspor...uk/gallery8.htm.

The oil-pipe broke on Lap ?? - Moss trickled the car back to just short of the finish line, parked-up and waited until the Hawthorn/ Castellotti Ferrari took line honours (a DB Panhard won ovedrall, on hadicap) then pushed the car across the line to qualify as a finisher and claim 18th place - and the finishing money, presumably. Contrary to the impression given by the photo in the book, he did not sit in the car for the duration of the rest of the race - I have seen other pictures of it sitting driverless. I recall (I was there, age 10 - so my memories are naturally vague) that the Jags went out quite early.

[Mal9444]

I've just checked that url - and it didn't work. But type Martyn Wrainwright Dundrod 1954 into Google and a link will come up. In fact it's a link to an earlier thread on this forum about his book.

[RA Historian]

When I was a school boy I was enamoured of the D Jaguar.....certainly one of the most beautiful cars I had ever seen! There was a UK company named Merit, which put out plastic models of period race cars. Road & Track carried an ad in 1957 or so from a company, I believe Autobooks, in California advertising the Merit kit of the D Jag for $1.95 US. Now, remember that at that time I was a penniless lad in school who scraped together 89 cents now and then to buy a Revell or Aurora plastic kit to build, so the Merit model was a bit out of my league. However, I saved a bit and sent the $1.95 off to California and got my kit. Green plastic, clear windscreen and headlight covers, wheels were also green plastic. No engine detail, just a two piece body with assorted little glue-ons. Put it together and painted it and was thrilled with what I had. It was a short nose car with the spot light. I am sure that it was not technically accurate, but for the times it was the best kit I ever had!

I still have it.

[Mal9444]

I had one too - my elder brother bought it for me for Christmas 1954, the year we both saw Moss in OKV3 at Dundrod. My delight was only very slightly tempered by the fact that the Merit model did not have a fin, but rather the 'ordinary' fairing.

I built it eagerly, if a trifle hurriedly, and it sat on the mantleshelf for many years, until I left home for uni. Then it was 'tidied away'...

So when I saw one on eBay a few months ago, still in kit form and advertised as 'almost complete', I put in a sensible bid and to my delight I got it. It is sitting on a shelf behind me as I type, ready to be re-built this winter once my boat (the principal hobby) comes out of the water later today.

Your description of it is perfect.

What was it/ is it about the D-type that makes it so iconic? Other sports cars (the Aston DBR1, for instance, and several Ferraris - even the 300 slr) of the time arguably had more delicate lines (OK - no one ever called a 300 slr 'delicate' before), but the D-type had something more. I always felt that in addition to its beautiful lines, the D had an extra aura of pure power around it. The alloy wheels with knock-on hubs were surely part of that when seen beside everyone else's wire-spoked wheels. A very male car - and for my money it is the short-nose that most exudes that sense, notwithstanding of course that the long nose version was technically superior in just about every way.

For the same reasons, I have never been at all enamoured of the E-type - but the XKSS? Without doubt to my mind the best-looking sorts roadster ever produced.

And when I win the lottery...

[doc knutsen]

Originally posted by Mal9444


Returning to the original query on this thread, and some of the earlier replies - it really is a shame that those who produce these models do not have more respect for those of us who buy them. I have a modest collection of D-type models, mostly 1/43rd scale and all of them are long-nose, despite several claiming to be from 1954, or others that were short-nose. I have models by Autoart, Vitesse and Brum. All long nose cars. The only 1/43rd scale models of short-nose D-types that I have ever found are Dinky (and Crescent) - both of course produced as toys rather than scale-models and so in other respects not that accurate.

Have you ever looked at resin kits? Provence Moulage did a great series of 1:43 racing Jaguars some years back, and that includes an absolutely correct short-nose, the 1954 Le Mans runner-up of Rolt and Hamilton. I have built a series of 1:43 racing Jaguars which are on proud display at my workshop, this includes the 1953 Rolt/Hamilton C-type, the 1954 second-place car of the same drivers, the 1955 long-nose of Hawthorn and Bueb, the 1956 winning Ecurie Ecosse short-nose, the 1957 long-nose ditto. Also included are a Cunningham Le Mans E-type coupe and the Lindner-Noecker ultimate lightweight, from Le Mans 1964, plus the whole GrC range starting with the XJR-6
from Mosport in 1985 and ending with the Cosworth-engined Silk Cut liveried XJR-14 of 1991, including both the 1988 and 1990 Le Mans winners. Very accurate models they are, too. Plus they seem to have lasted very well, having been given a layer of semi-matt clear coating in order to protect the decals.
Incidentally, Slot.It of Italy just brought out a stunningly detailed 1:32 slot racing XJR-9 from Le Mans 1988, but the level of detail fully merits its use as a static display model. It is the no 22 car, and its full Silk Cut livery is on display after I used some sticky tape to remove the non-tobacco decalled livery which the car wears as it comes from the shop.

[Mal9444]

I have today been speaking with, and just ordered from, SMTS who IMO do some very good 1:43rd scale sports racing cars their version of the short-nose. They normally do it with race number 14, which I assume to be the Rolt/ Hamilton OKV1 but are very happy to do it for me with race number 20 - the Moss/ Walker Dundrod variant of OKV3.

Really great guys, very helpful and a pleasure to talk to.

They have a website http://www.smtsmodels.co.uk/ which is helpful if one wishes to contact them, but on which the catalogue is fairly basic, somewhat out of date and does not cover all the cars they produce. This they ruefully admit.

Nice people.

[Mal9444]

It may be that everyone but me has now lost interest in this thread, but if not there is some interesting stuff about, and lovely pictures of, the Mallya OKV3 (not to mention a mouth watering collection of Cs, Ds (inc OKV2) and the odd XKSS. It's all been on the web for a while so you may have all seen it - but if not, take a look and drool for a bit.

http://www.southflor...s/cdreunion.htm


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