9618 replies to this topic

[HEMEYLA]

In Memoriam, Fritz Scheidegger, (*) 30-12-1930 - (+) 26-03-1967

Info....Link



Fritz Scheidegger with John Robinson, Assen 25-06-1966.

[GD66]

Originally posted by fil2.8


Yes a lot of these people just don't get it do they ?? They seem to be focused on these easier to ride ,traction controlled missiles and think things were always like that.....if only they took the time to check up ... Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

In most cases they just don't know otherwise, Phil. I sent a flaming missive to one of the Channel 10 commentators some years back when Mick Doohan eclipsed Mike's 37 victories in the 500 class: it rated barely a mention from the chappie in question, so I sent him an elegantly-phrased but pointed precis of not only the intricacies of the Hailwood career, but an outline of his impact on the sport and the public. To my surprise, he mentioned in the next GP telecast that he'd been updated further about Mike's career, and apologised for undervaluing it. But to most current pundits, as soon as anything pre-95 is mentioned, they start to glaze over. For my part, as a youngster I had no time for the stars of the 30s to 50s, these days I become more enthralled with the unveiling of each ripping yarn from those days. It's all perspective, I guess. I still enjoy modern racing, but find it impossible to shake the memories of the giants from our race history.

[Rennmax]

Originally posted by GD66



In most cases they just don't know otherwise, Phil. I sent a flaming missive to one of the Channel 10 commentators some years back when Mick Doohan eclipsed Mike's 37 victories in the 500 class: it rated barely a mention from the chappie in question, so I sent him an elegantly-phrased but pointed precis of not only the intricacies of the Hailwood career, but an outline of his impact on the sport and the public. To my surprise, he mentioned in the next GP telecast that he'd been updated further about Mike's career, and apologised for undervaluing it. But to most current pundits, as soon as anything pre-95 is mentioned, they start to glaze over. For my part, as a youngster I had no time for the stars of the 30s to 50s, these days I become more enthralled with the unveiling of each ripping yarn from those days. It's all perspective, I guess. I still enjoy modern racing, but find it impossible to shake the memories of the giants from our race history.

I think the question about the all time best was discussed in another thread und you will certainly never come to an end...it's charged too much with emotions. So until Jimmy Guthrie, Stanley Woods, Mike Hailwood, Jarno Saarinen and Valentino Rossi and at least 2 other dozen of riders will compete in one race with equal machinery, the discussion will go on
IMHO, it doesn't matter who the best is or was...I admire all those lads who stick their neck out and do a decent job on the circuits

[GD66]

Agreed Renn, it's impossible to compare different eras. Which is fine. Especially when you consider that Stanley Woods' win in the 1935 Senior was (gasp!) nearly 74 years ago. My point was, as good as they are today, it means nothing unless juxtaposed against the efforts of those who have gone before, to give us a sense of perspective. Luckily for us, those days still mean plenty to the kind and generous souls who contribute to TNF, and allow us to share their passion. Hats off, gents....and ladies.

[Maridadi]

Originally posted by GD66
Agreed Renn, it's impossible to compare different eras. Which is fine. Especially when you consider that Stanley Woods' win in the 1935 Senior was (gasp!) nearly 74 years ago. My point was, as good as they are today, it means nothing unless juxtaposed against the efforts of those who have gone before, to give us a sense of perspective. Luckily for us, those days still mean plenty to the kind and generous souls who contribute to TNF, and allow us to share their passion. Hats off, gents....and ladies.

I entirely agree; there is no way that one can draw any kind of meaningful comparison between riders from different eras. My involvement in the SpeedTV thread was to point out that, if Rossi was a God, as one contributor claimed, then Mike, with the following resume, must be chief God!

"Mike-the-Bike" Hailwood won 9 World Championships in three different classes. He won 366 of the 725 races that he entered on 18 different machines! His World championships were won in the days when Grand Prix lasted considerably longer than they do now, on circuits with Armco barrier on the outside of most corners (an average of six, yes six GP riders were killed every year) and he would often ride in two different GP classes on the same day. He was the first of only two riders who ever won 3 GPs in one day (the other was Jim Redman).

If you believe, as many people do, that the TT is the ultimate test of a rider then consider that Mike set the 500cc lap record at 108.77 mph in 1967 riding the infamous Honda "Bronco". This record was not broken until 1976, or 9 years later, when John Williams raised the record to 112.27 mph. Williams record stood until 1979 when it was broken by who else but Mike again after he had been retired from motorcycle racing for 11 years until the year before! He raised it to114.02 mph and when told about it after the race said "No, You're joking - bloody he!!, I wasn't even trying hard!".

As well as his motorcycle racing achievements he achieved a third place at the 1969 Le Mans driving with David Hobbs, made 4th place in the 1971 Italian F1 GP at Monza, won the European F2 championship in 1972 and made it to 8th place in the F1 drivers' championship the same year. He also achieved a 4th place as co-driver with Derek Bell in the 1974 Le Mans.

[PilotesdeLegende]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ex Rhodie racer

And these ones by the late Volker Rauch are amoung my favorites of the great man. The quality of the paper wasn´t the best and the pics have become grained. Worth seeing though.

QUOTE]

Here some pics of Volker with better quality.
Enjoy !

[ex Rhodie racer]

Splendid Henri. Are those scanned from original prints? I wonder who inherited Volker´s collection of photos? I sincerely hope it is someone who appreciates racing and it´s history.

[Paul Rochdale]

Superb pictures. I was in a local art gallery yesterday displaying motorcycle racing paintings and one was of the rear view of Phil Read on his works Yamaha, obviously copied from a photograph like all of the other paintings, and clearly taken at the same bend as that last Hailwood pic. What bend is that and at what circuit?

Incidentally in a moment of enthusiasm I bidded for a rather nice oil painting of Fritz Scheidegger/John Robinson. I'll know on 31 March if I've been successful.

[GD66]

Clermont-Ferrand '67. Hailwood finished 3rd behind Ivy and Read.

[Rennmax]

Photo Copyrighted to Paul Mckelvie
Eupen, Belgium

[Rennmax]

Originally posted by HEMEYLA
In Memoriam, Fritz Scheidegger, (*) 30-12-1930 - (+) 26-03-1967

Info....Link



Fritz Scheidegger with John Robinson

Where was this pic taken, Ton ?

Does anyone remember the argy-bargy about the "wrong" brand of petrol after his win in the TT '66 ?

[GD66]

Looks a little like Scarborough.... that petrol fiasco was a load of cow droppings...

[ex Rhodie racer]

Originally posted by Rennmax



Photo Copyrighted to Paul Mckelvie
Eupen, Belgium

I think I´ve read on here somewhere that that pic of John was taken on the day he died. Scarborough, 31st August 1968. Could that be correct?

[Rennmax]

Originally posted by ex Rhodie racer

I think I´ve read on here somewhere that that pic of John was taken on the day he died. Scarborough, 31st August 1968. Could that be correct?

That's correct, Rhodie.
Since I posted Surtees' appreciation of him in one of Big John's biographies, I've contacted the photographer of this shot and asked for permission to show it here...

[Bernard]

Lovely picture Rennmax.I know I have asked this before but anyone know John Robinsons situation today as I used to pass his house in Sth Croydon every day going to work,but l have not lived in Croydon for 30 years.

[Rennmax]

[ex Rhodie racer]

Originally posted by Rennmax

Michelle Duff with Charlie Mortimer in the chair. Couldn´t tell you where though. Great shot.

[Rennmax]

Originally posted by ex Rhodie racer

Michelle Duff with Charlie Mortimer in the chair. Couldn´t tell you where though. Great shot.

shot was taken in Schotten / Germany 2 or 3 years ago

[Rennmax]

Photo Copyrighted to Paul Mckelvie
Eupen, Belgium


Rider in the background wears a familar lid but can't remember him on a bike with Peel fairing...any ideas ?

[fil2.8]

Originally posted by Rennmax


Photo Copyrighted to Paul Mckelvie
Eupen, Belgium


Rider in the background wears a familar lid but can't remember him on a bike with Peel fairing...any ideas ?

No I don't Renn , but nice to see a pic of who I believe the first number 7 --Chris Conn

[Helmut O.]

Is this Chris Conn?

[Rennmax]

Originally posted by Helmut O.
Is this Chris Conn?

yes, # 17 is Chris Conn but still wondering if the other one is Alan Barnett ?

[fil2.8]

Originally posted by Helmut O.
Is this Chris Conn?

Yes Helmut , that's Chris riding #17 , but with #7 on his open face on the Higley Norton , riding under the RAF Motorsports Banner , I believe

[Macca in Eupen]

Originally posted by Rennmax


Where was this pic taken, Ton ?

Does anyone remember the argy-bargy about the "wrong" brand of petrol after his win in the TT '66 ?

This photo of Frits Scheidegger was taken at Oliver's Mount, I took the photo I was not asked if it could be used if asked I would have said " Yes " Its nice to be asked,here is a link to my photos. :- http://www.flickr.com/photos/macca-46/

[fil2.8]

Originally posted by Macca in Eupen
This photo of Frits Scheidegger was taken at Oliver's Mount, I took the photo I was not asked if it could be used if asked I would have said " Yes " Its nice to be asked,here is a link to my photos. :- http://www.flickr.com/photos/macca-46/

Hi Macca that's one way of enlisting members welcome to the forum
I'll now have a butchers at your pics

[Macca in Eupen]

No it was Rennmax who saw my photos and asked to use one hope you like them.

[Russell Burrows]

Originally posted by Macca in Eupen
This photo of Frits Scheidegger was taken at Oliver's Mount, I took the photo I was not asked if it could be used if asked I would have said " Yes " Its nice to be asked,here is a link to my photos. :- http://www.flickr.com/photos/macca-46/

Hi there and welcome. You have some interesting shots there.

[picblanc]

Great photos Paul

[Russell Burrows]

Originally posted by Rennmax


Photo Copyrighted to Paul Mckelvie
Eupen, Belgium


Rider in the background wears a familar lid but can't remember him on a bike with Peel fairing...any ideas ?

15 looks like Charlie Sanby....

[fil2.8]

Originally posted by Macca in Eupen
No it was Rennmax who saw my photos and asked to use one hope you like them.

I think it might take a while with 314 pages......................... but like the ones i've seen

[Russell Burrows]

Originally posted by Rennmax



Another shot of him some years later...





I think he was on the verge of becoming a Honda works rider but crashed in Japan (Suzuka?) in '65 when testing a Honda six which ended his career....he will always be remembered over here for his fine performances on MZs, winning the 250 cc GP in Daytona in '64 and finishing 2nd to SMBH at the Sachsenring in '63 in the 250 cc class
Always interesting how riders are rated by their competitors...do you know whom admired John Surtees most, at least from his period ?

Wasn't he also invited to test the MV before the Honda disaster.....maybe a year or so earlier. This also went badly wrong when he was alleged to have overeved an engine and bent the valves or perhaps blew it up, resulting in what was presumably a provisional offer being withdrawn ?

[Rennmax]

Originally posted by Macca in Eupen
No it was Rennmax who saw my photos and asked to use one hope you like them.

Hi Paul, welcome to this forum, fine you joined us ... hope I stood to the rules as agreed in our pm by showing your copyright ...


One of your shots show John Blanchard on the Seeley-URS with a Rickman front disc brake.... I think that caused quite a stir with Colin Seeley ending the engagement of Blanchard and turning Helmut Fath towards Metisse frames... but the Seeley bike appeared in '71 (?) again in the hands of Tony Jefferies....anyone knows the complete story ?

[fil2.8]

Well , I don't think the disc brake was the main arguement , IIRC the main problem for John was he kept grounding the exhaust -it being far to low --as can be seen in early piccies

[Rennmax]

Originally posted by Russell Burrows


Wasn't he also invited to test the MV before the Honda disaster.....maybe a year or so earlier. This also went badly wrong when he was alleged to have overeved an engine and bent the valves or perhaps blew it up, resulting in what was presumably a provisional offer being withdrawn ?

Hi Russ, didn't know that he also had a MV test ride...in various books MVs were reported to be quite sensitive to overreving...what a blow if you are so close to such a works ride...

[RRT2]

Hello to you all.just had to sign up to this fantastic forum.
I think it might have been Terry Shepherd who had a try out with MV.He was a replacement for Umberto Masetti at the 1957 TT.Unfortunately he fell in practice at the Nook and broke fingers in his left hand.As far as I can see 1957 was his only year on works MV Agustas

[knickerbrook]

I'm with RUSS - that's definitly Charlie Sanby behind Chris Conn. I once worked with a fella who was in the RAF with Conn and he was always saying how ace Chris was in the wet. Don't know if that was right, but there were riders who were particularly good in the rain. Any other "wet-weather specialists" spring to mind? (My hero Malcolm Uphill would be high on the list!).

Welcome RRT2 - I had a Goldie when I was seventeen (£150 from Coburn and Hughes - on hire-purchase at £2 per week!). It was originally a CB34 which had been uprated to full DBD spec. and had every available Dow extra. Raced it once in 1969 then sold it on! One of my biggest regrets - I'm almost in tears as I am typing this How I wish I still had it!

[RRT2]

Thankyou for the welcome Knickerbrook.I bet you wish you still had your Goldie.I suppose it seemed like a good idea to sell it on forty years ago.A case of "if I only knew then what I know now"

[Maridadi]

Originally posted by knickerbrook
Any other "wet-weather specialists" spring to mind? (My hero Malcolm Uphill would be high on the list!).

Gary Hocking was considered to be very quick in the wet. When, after a wet win, someone said that he certainly must like riding in the wet he reputedly said that he hated it but couldn't understand why everyone else went so slowly.

[fil2.8]

Originally posted by RRT2
Hello to you all.just had to sign up to this fantastic forum.
I think it might have been Terry Shepherd who had a try out with MV.He was a replacement for Umberto Masetti at the 1957 TT.Unfortunately he fell in practice at the Nook and broke fingers in his left hand.As far as I can see 1957 was his only year on works MV Agustas

Hi to you RRT2 and welcome --I expect we'll all have to step up a gear now --don't forget to browse the other sections

[knickerbrook]

Ooops! Have just re-read my previous post where I mistakenly credited Phil with identifying Charlie Sanby - but of course it was Russell who got it! (I will now edit accordingly!).

[fil2.8]

Originally posted by knickerbrook
Ooops! Have just re-read my previous post where I mistakenly credited Phil with identifying Charlie Sanby - but of course it was Russell who got it! (I will now edit accordingly!).

Huh !!!! spoilsport not playing any more

[knickerbrook]

Must play fair - Russell put his hand up first !!

Anyone got more photos?

[fil2.8]

Originally posted by knickerbrook
Must play fair - Russell put his hand up first !!

Anyone got more photos?

Yes , why ?? :yawn: :yawn:

[Macca in Eupen]

New to this,how do I add a photo

[Rennmax]

Happy belated birthday to the man on the right side !

[Rennmax]

Originally posted by Macca in Eupen
New to this,how do I add a photo

I will contact you directly in a minute, Paul

[Paul Rochdale]

I well remember Chris Conn, often announced over the tannoy as an RAF Corporal. Unusually when he retired from racing, he broke away from it completely and had no interest in returning to revival meetings, etc. I wonder what became of him?

[Macca in Eupen]

Just uploaded some more race photos including another shot of Criss Conn.
see them at http://www.flickr.com/photos/macca-46/ Thanks to Renn and Knickerbrook for advice on how to post photos on here

[Russell Burrows]

Originally posted by Macca in Eupen
Just uploaded some more race photos including another shot of Criss Conn.
see them at http://www.flickr.com/photos/macca-46/ Thanks to Renn and Knickerbrook for advice on how to post photos on here

Some unusual and immaginative pics there...thanks.

[Russell Burrows]

Originally posted by RRT2
Hello to you all.just had to sign up to this fantastic forum.
I think it might have been Terry Shepherd who had a try out with MV.He was a replacement for Umberto Masetti at the 1957 TT.Unfortunately he fell in practice at the Nook and broke fingers in his left hand.As far as I can see 1957 was his only year on works MV Agustas

Terry did ride the MV and Alan's test at, I think, Monza was around '63. I've not checked this out as Im away from London at the mo....hope I'm not imagining this. :