10099 replies to this topic

[Ray Bell]

It looks the same as the one above...

I don't know about any 'old' or 'new' versions. Are there no pictures of the 250LM showing the logo? Come to think of it, when the Ferrari was new, AMS had a centrefold pic of it, didn't it? Did that also have the logo printed up separately (along with a Shell logo)? This would be the February or March 1965 issue.

[David McKinney]

I ten to agree with TW - in his photos the banner seems much longer in relation to the shield

[Milan Fistonic]

Originally posted by David McKinney
I ten to agree with TW - in his photos the banner seems much longer in relation to the shield

That's because only the white part of the shield shows up against the car's colour.

[David McKinney]

Doh

[Derek Pitt]

Following numerous spurious allegations, I have commissioned an investigation into the character known as Stan Patterson and can now report as follows:


The first authenticated sighting of the chap was in a minor part in the film "ON THE BEACH", in which he played the role of a disgruntled member of the "Stuffiest Club in the Commonwealth" complaining about how could the Wine Committee be so stupid as to allow several hundred bottles of vintage port to be purchased when they knew the human race was to expire before it could possibly consumed.!!!! - an utter disgrace!..Stan called for the committee's resignation ...bad show

The next verifiable sighting is in Sports Car World circa March 1964 (letters to the editor) - or thereabouts - whed he complained in the journal about the Sydney-centric bias towards Frank Matich, at the expense of the current champion Bib Stillwell . ...spot on at the time........Ray...given your Matich-esque feelings, you may be able to help here.

It can now revealed we have discovered that, in a letter to the editor of Motor Sport in March 1980 Stan, using another ridiculous pseudonym, wrote, Nostrodamus-like, about the future of Australian motor sport.

History has shown his point is unanswerable

Derek
I drive a Rover P5B & Rover 100

[Lola5000]

Originally posted by Derek Pitt
Following numerous spurious allegations, I have commissioned an investigation into the character known as Stan Patterson and can now report as follows:


The first authenticated sighting of the chap was in a minor part in the film "ON THE BEACH", in which he played the role of a disgruntled member of the "Stuffiest Club in the Commonwealth" complaining about how could the Wine Committee be so stupid as to allow several hundred bottles of vintage port to be purchased when they knew the human race was to expire before it could possibly consumed.!!!! - an utter disgrace!..Stan called for the committee's resignation ...bad show

The next verifiable sighting is in Sports Car World circa March 1964 (letters to the editor) - or thereabouts - whed he complained in the journal about the Sydney-centric bias towards Frank Matich, at the expense of the current champion Bib Stillwell . ...spot on at the time........Ray...given your Matich-esque feelings, you may be able to help here.

It can now revealed we have discovered that, in a letter to the editor of Motor Sport in March 1980 Stan, using another ridiculous pseudonym, wrote, Nostrodamus-like, about the future of Australian motor sport.

History has shown his point is unanswerable

Derek
I drive a Rover P5B & Rover 100

do you live in Clifton Hill?

[fnqvmuch]

I have really enjoyed spending the last couple of days on reading through this forum. I am going to try posting my relevant photos of Kalorama, Maldon etc and talk to dad regarding his wishes for his negs i scanned, and then I'ld love your help with things like Albert Park when the Cooper Bristol wore 11, the 250f - 2 and the Ferrari 555(?) - 4, ( names? ) and Ernie Tadgell's special number 15 - what day of what year ?, and was that 203 Bob Holden's? etc., etc. ? we have programme but not the right ones, it seems ...
steven
ps, just got here and miss stan already...

[David McKinney]

A good start, Steven
Looking forward to more

[cooper997]

Originally posted by fnqvmuch
[B]I have really enjoyed spending the last couple of days on reading through this forum. I am going to try posting my relevant photos of Kalorama, Maldon etc and talk to dad regarding his wishes for his negs i scanned, and then I'ld love your help with things like Albert Park when the Cooper Bristol wore 11, the 250f - 2 and the Ferrari 555(?) - 4, ( names? ) and Ernie Tadgell's special number 15 - what day of what year ?, and was that 203 Bob Holden's? etc., etc. ? we have programme but not the right ones, it seems ...
steven
ps, just got here and miss stan already...

fnqvmuch (Steven),

I'd say the Albert Park photos your trying to identify are from either of the March 1957 meetings. Day 1 March 17th or Day 2 - March 24th.

#11 Cooper Bristol Len Lukey
#2 Maserati 250F Stan Jones
#4 Ferrari Lex Davison

#15 Porsche Special Ern Tadgell (entered by Norman Hamilton)

If the Peugeot is #11 it will be Bob Holden, if #12 probably W H (Bill?) Wilcox.

If the #2 250F is an early model 250F, then it will probably be Reg Hunt from the March 1956 events. Day 1 - March 11th or Day 2 March 18th.

Hope this helps

Stephen

[fnqvmuch]

Well here is one as discussed, to be going on with - i appropriated this one for myself long ago.
It looks like a learning curve coming up for which i'm going much too fast - because its not like Mac software, so if any one can recommend alternatives ...
There were some large format negs (120? - with no notes) and a few 35mm but these are single frames, and don't always correspond to the notes they were once mounted with, so thanks Stephen that will help.
Also mixed in are Fishermans Bend ones as well; a wide of paddock XK-120#40 in foreground, single shots / details Talbot-Lago #3, MM-Holden #50, MG K3 rego no GJP 820 # 67, and a new looking MGA rego no GLO 000,unnumbered but parked up in #56's spot, Cooper-Jaguar rego no GLP 333 numbered 4 in the second shot, a TC Special LSD 662 #60, a HWM open wheeler, a much admired A-H 100 GKE 008 #43, Triumph Special #52, Coopers #21 and 8, and in the parking a Bugatti apparently straight but for right-rear cycle-guard missing (2 Standard utes and a lairy Vauxhall in b/g),. Circulating but too-wide shots; A-H #27, the Cooper-Jag, an XK and a Sunbeam #89.
I'll itemise the Albert Park ones later ... meanwhile - the 250f has the wide bonnet and closed fairing over carbies - ?

[Terry Walker]

Looking good! It's fabulous what has been emerging from hiding.

(You can reduce file sizes but keep the same image sizes on scans of b+w prints by converting them to grey scale, or scanning them as grey scale in the first instance.)

[cooper997]

Originally posted by fnqvmuch
[B]Well here is one as discussed, to be going on with - i appropriated this one for myself long ago.
It looks like a learning curve coming up for which i'm going much too fast - because its not like Mac software, so if any one can recommend alternatives ...
There were some large format negs (120? - with no notes) and a few 35mm but these are single frames, and don't always correspond to the notes they were once mounted with, so thanks Stephen that will help.
Also mixed in are Fishermans Bend ones as well; a wide of paddock XK-120#40 in foreground, single shots / details Talbot-Lago #3, MM-Holden #50, MG K3 rego no GJP 820 # 67, and a new looking MGA rego no GLO 000,unnumbered but parked up in #56's spot, Cooper-Jaguar rego no GLP 333 numbered 4 in the second shot, a TC Special LSD 662 #60, a HWM open wheeler, a much admired A-H 100 GKE 008 #43, Triumph Special #52, Coopers #21 and 8, and in the parking a Bugatti apparently straight but for right-rear cycle-guard missing (2 Standard utes and a lairy Vauxhall in b/g),. Circulating but too-wide shots; A-H #27, the Cooper-Jag, an XK and a Sunbeam #89.
I'll itemise the Albert Park ones later ... meanwhile - the 250f has the wide bonnet and closed fairing over carbies - ?

Steven,

Now this is a test... but seems like that most of the Fishermen's Bend photos you have are from the February 11th/12th, 1956 meeting. Some of the cars I can id are as follows.

#4 Cooper-Jaguar will be the ex Peter Whitehead car, at this meeting Stan Jones owned and ran this car.
#? HWM open wheeler - Lex Davison.
#3 Lago-Talbot - Doug Whiteford.
#50 MM Holden (the open-wheeler version) - Jim Leech.
#89 Sunbeam - C Martyr

Sounds like the #2 Maserati 250F at Albert Park is Stan Jones March 1957 mount.

Stephen

[David Shaw]

#43 is an Austin Healey 100S chassis AHS3907, owned by Austin Distributors and probably driven by the MD Jeff Brotherton.

[cooper997]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by fnqvmuch
[B]Well here is one as discussed, to be going on with - i appropriated this one for myself long ago.
It looks like a learning curve coming up for which i'm going much too fast - because its not like Mac software, so if any one can recommend alternatives ...
There were some large format negs (120? - with no notes) and a few 35mm but these are single frames, and don't always correspond to the notes they were once mounted with, so thanks Stephen that will help.
Also mixed in are Fishermans Bend ones as well; a wide of paddock XK-120#40 in foreground, single shots / details Talbot-Lago #3, MM-Holden #50, MG K3 rego no GJP 820 # 67, and a new looking MGA rego no GLO 000,unnumbered but parked up in #56's spot, Cooper-Jaguar rego no GLP 333 numbered 4 in the second shot, a TC Special LSD 662 #60, a HWM open wheeler, a much admired A-H 100 GKE 008 #43, Triumph Special #52, Coopers #21 and 8, and in the parking a Bugatti apparently straight but for right-rear cycle-guard missing (2 Standard utes and a lairy Vauxhall in b/g),. Circulating but too-wide shots; A-H #27, the Cooper-Jag, an XK and a Sunbeam #89.
I'll itemise the Albert Park ones later ... meanwhile - the 250f has the wide bonnet and closed fairing over carbies - ? QUOTE]

Steven (fnqvmuch),

A bit more digging reveals that the MG K3 you mention registered GJP 820, is possibly an ex Tazio Nuvolari MG factory team car. By the early 1950's it was owned by John Sawyer, who would make his name preparing racing cars for Bob Jane. By the Feb 11/12, 1956 Fishermen's Bend meeting it was owned by Graham Nankervis (who had purchased it just over 2 weeks prior). So it was probably him competing in it at 'the Bend'.

Stephen

[David McKinney]

Don't think there's much likelihood Nuvolari had anything to do with that particular MG K3. It was apparently the 1933 Mille Miglia recce car.
And without wishing to be too much of a nit-picker, I would have thought John Sawyer was fairly well-known before he joined Jane. Didn't he work for Stan Jones or the Maybach or both?

[Ray Bell]

Well-known? Yes... but had he 'made his name' before joining Jane? A moot point...

John Sawyer worked under Otto Stone when he was with Stan Jones... they are all together here in this Phillip Island photo:



There you have Stan, happy after winning the Gold Star, Otto Stone shaking his hand as the chief mechanic and John Sawyer behind a very youthful Alan Jones. I have an idea that John worked with Allan Ashton too, though that might be a fanciful thought. Nevertheless, he was the second-string man, not the head spanner.

When Jane had the 300S he employed Sawyer full time to tend it, having had so much Maserati experience with Jones, and probably do some work at the car yard too. The Jaguar soon followed and John was very much a part of its development after Harry Firth started getting things under way.

[Lola5000]

To think about 10 years latter Stan would be dead due to his life style,must of been some boy.

[nivola]

Hi all I have been trawling through this thread after some information on the Lotus Cortina of Jim McKeown.

Im wondering if you guys would have any information on race stats and some images.

Im looking at the Neptune Era when the cars where blue.

Can anyone out there help me please.

Nivola

[Ray Bell]

I've posted one of mine in the past, from Catalina Park...

I'll see if I can get it up again.

[nivola]

Ray I have gone through everything in this topic as it should be here.

I have found your catalina image which is a drivers side profile. This image looks like it is 1965 or later as the Lotus badge on the front grill is on the passenger side.

Also the review mirror is off the right front fender. This seemed to arrive and go depending on event.

[Ray Bell]

Dead side on, driver's side, lots of sun, timber fence background as he's turning left...

August '65 approximately. It won't be in this thread though, years since I posted it.

[nivola]

Hmmm Well I found it on one website not sure which site though!

Nivola

[cooper997]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
Well-known? Yes... but had he 'made his name' before joining Jane? A moot point...

John Sawyer worked under Otto Stone when he was with Stan Jones...

I have an idea that John worked with Allan Ashton too, though that might be a fanciful thought. Nevertheless, he was the second-string man, not the head spanner.

When Jane had the 300S he employed Sawyer full time to tend it, having had so much Maserati experience with Jones, and probably do some work at the car yard too. The Jaguar soon followed and John was very much a part of its development after Harry Firth started getting things under way.

The John Sawyer scenario brilliantly summed up Ray.

All I was trying to do was help fnqvmuch date & id some of his photos. Ones that we haven't even seen yet (but hopefully will).

The source I used for the K3 identification (quoted as chassis number K.3752) actually mentions the Nuvolari connection. Being his winning mount for the 1933 RAC TT race. Maybe it isn't, but where are all the Nuvolari/MG K3 enthusiasts (with intimate chassis numbers knowledge) to give us the facts.

Stephen

[cooper997]

Originally posted by nivola
Hi all I have been trawling through this thread after some information on the Lotus Cortina of Jim McKeown.

Im wondering if you guys would have any information on race stats and some images.

Im looking at the Neptune Era when the cars where blue.

Can anyone out there help me please.

Nivola

Nivola,

You can read about this Lotus Cortina before Jim turned it into his Neptune team car in Wheels magazine, November 1963. It was Melbourne Ford dealer, Peter Coffey's and appears on the cover of this issue with a road test inside. PM or email me (click on my 'profile' icon) and I can scan it if you want it.

Stephen

[Wirra]

Originally posted by nivola
...Im looking at the Neptune Era when the cars where blue...

Sorry, no Neptune but here are a couple of the Mk II in different Shell colours. Was this a Lotus?

[eskimut]

Originally posted by nivola
Hi all I have been trawling through this thread after some information on the Lotus Cortina of Jim McKeown.

Im wondering if you guys would have any information on race stats and some images.

Im looking at the Neptune Era when the cars where blue.

Can anyone out there help me please.

Nivola

What are you looking for, we would have a few b/w, odd colour shot of Neptune team. John Stanley has the three car shot from Lakeside. assume you have looked at DVD footage of Neptune racing, looked at autopics.com.au, old race photos.com etc.
Regards

GP

[Lola5000]

Their is a DVD about Norm B,that has the Neptune team racing around Sandown,EH,Lotus and the Mini.

[Leo D]

Originally posted by Lola5000
Their is a DVD about Norm B,that has the Neptune team racing around Sandown,EH,Lotus and the Mini.

It's called "Before Brock....There Was Beechey"....... and the Neptune Racing film that takes up the later part of the DVD does indeed include the EH, the Mini and the Lotus Cortina in question

[Terry Walker]

Caversham. Pic by Milton mcCutcheon.

[Terry Walker]

Caversham again. Pic by Milton McCutcheon

[Terry Walker]

The above 2 pics probably 1964. Note the Consul badge on the bonnet bulge. This was a very early pre-airflow job, I think.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Wirra
Sorry, no Neptune but here are a couple of the Mk II in different Shell colours. Was this a Lotus?

Yes, a very rare 1967 model Lotus Cortina...

[Lee Nicolle]

Originally posted by Terry Walker
Caversham again. Pic by Milton McCutcheon

I love the variety of cars in that pic. The Cortina, a Studebaker, a 750 Renault, a Humpy holden and a Viva lurking in the background

[ken devine]

That was the dummy grid 60s style.These pics were 1966.I have sent Ray Oliver some high res. scans
of these pics.including my B/W closeup.
Ps Ray Bell i will be sending you an excellent closeup of the Ranford Chrystler Spec.which i have just
obtained.

[Ray Bell]

That's just great, Ken, really looking forward to that...

And in response, here's my McKeown pic again:



And the man himself, along with his team mates... Skinny and Norm:

[nivola]

Thankyou Ray

Notice the gt500 Brake Ducts!!!

Plus the removal of the mirror off the fender and has the bonnet Rope/Leather strap attached.

[Ray Bell]

Hmmm... wasn't an outside mirror required under the rules?

Just like the second bonnet fixing was required...

[nivola]

Well that was what I would have thought aswell but there are some images where the mirror was gone and some with it installed on the front fender.

There is another image at Catalina Park from the same race meeting where it shows no hole in the fender for the mirror!

The Lakeside image from Autopics has the same missing mirror!

Also the drivers name on the door came and went from race meeting to race meeting.

Lastly this is a general question to the lucky crew to live in this era. What was the color of the Registration Decal on the windscreen.

I have the video of the Neptune Racing Team doco and it looks red on the S4 but the thing is there is an images i have got off Ken are from 66 and the rego is still red. Any chance this is correct of the old sticker on the 66 car?

[cooper997]

It looks to be the original rego sticker from its Peter Coffey days, with Victorian number plates 'HUN 999'. Must have been a very early production Lotus Cortina because it was registered in June 1963 going by the '6' on that label.

Stephen

[nivola]

I have read that it was the first Lotus Cortina raced in Australia.

[nivola]

Here is a screen grab from The Neptune Doco

[Vicuna]

Originally posted by Ray Bell


And the man himself, along with his team mates... Skinny and Norm:

I can never see a photo of Norm and not think 'VAT 69'

Anyone know why?

Vic

[cooper997]

Originally posted by nivola
I have read that it was the first Lotus Cortina raced in Australia.

Debut event was Calder 26/1/64 meeting. The same meeting when the full Neptune Team of Norm Beechey, Peter Manton & Jim McKeown made their debut (Beechey first raced in Neptune colours late in 63). This event also being where Beechey spectacularly rolled his early model Holden 'PK 752' while battling Bob Jane's Fiat 2300.

Stephen

[eskimut]

Here are a couple from our archives, enjoy..!

[wagons46]

Number plates in Victoria in 1963 ran from "HSH144" in January to "HXU732" in December. HUN999 is about the middle of that issue, making June 63 the logical original new car registration date.

[fredeuce]

Originally posted by eskimut
[/B]

Great old pic from clubhouse corner at Mallala.

Edited by fredeuce, 06 October 2010 - 22:35.

[onelung]

Surfer's Paradise, January 1967.

and

Were there two different shades of blue - or is it just a case of dye degradation after forty-something years?

[nivola]

She looks black to me.

Blue till the end of 67?
Black for 68 for only one year?
Then along came the Shell name change and the yellow from 69 with the blue livery in there for a few months.

[onelung]

After so many years I'm not about to start arguing about colours..I was seeing these slides as a very dark blue, that's all.
The shots were most definitely taken in January of '67, whatever colour the cars were then. Here's another from the same meeting: I think we can say this is a very dark - British (Napier?) Racing green?

[Amaroo Park]

The photos on this thread have been fantastic, really, really enjoyable thanks all