10099 replies to this topic

[Andrew Fellowes]

Originally posted by Terry Walker
Austin 1800, Renault 16TS, Mini Cooper S with a broken taillight, Bathurst 1969; and two Alfas and another Cooper S fairly untidly parked.

The only year I have ever been to Bathurst, tent on a farm nearby with three mates from college, my poor old Cortina only just made it to the top, it over heated, I must have been close by when this photo was taken. (I've always wanted to be able to say that!)
Andrew

[seldo]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
Not an Austin 1800, Terry...

None of them ever ran the race.

Looks to me to be the Alf Barrett/ Mel Mollison Morris 1500 ahead of Bill Bryden/John Smith Renault 16TS and maybe David Frazer/Alan Johns Cooper S

[eldougo]

Guess the car behind the tree.......Myguess it,s another Renault16TS.

[Terry Walker]

Peter "Magnesium Bones" Manton, Longford

[Ray Bell]

Running right hand drive this day...

As he would have done at Caversham, of course.

[kaydee]

Lance Reventlow - (builder of the Scarab cars) photographed in the pits at Sandown in 1962

[sandy]

Re Eldred Norman tamping down the earth around post holes with a machine gun as per previous entries in this thread.

This is a bit odd; you would need a vast amount of ammo to strengthen the fence posts in the ground and a vast amount of time refilling the 20 or 30 round magazine; you would be better off simply placing handfuls of rounds into the post hole before filling and who would waste good ammo doing this where gravel would do just as well. It is more likely that Eldred got sick and tired of digging post holes in the heat and vented his feelings by emptying his ready to hand machine gun (as you do, hasn't everyone got one) into the ground accompanied by a collection of "Take that you effing mongrel b******d!" etc. And so the legend grew. It was probably an Owen sub machine gun, there are a number in private hands, in fact for many years there was a line of bullet holes in the Melbourne Cricket Ground's south gate where a hoodlum emptied an Owen in the direction of a competitor to no effect.

[john medley]

And didnt the Owen gun fire high and to the right( the line of holes at the MCG could perhaps tell us?)?

Not really the weapon for digging or filling post holes

[Terry Walker]

The cutting Bathurst 1969, a not so common angle showing just how steep it is. Like the style of the guy in the cliff face at right.

[Ray Bell]

That looks like Ean Jones... anyway, it's a photographer...

Kevin, both Bronnie and Nancy told me about the machine gun incident. Apparently he had plenty of ammo, it was just lying about in the trucks and jeeps he bought in conjunction with others at Disposal sales. I have an idea Mike mentioned that too.

Nancy also told me about the rifle he had in bed to shoot mice somewhere or other. He wasn't a stranger to guns, it seems.

[kaydee]

Ray, Until I read it on this thread I hadn't previously heard of Eldred using the machine gun to tamp the dirt - my recollection was the story that he used it to "drill" holes for gelegnite to clear the rocks at Collingrove - but I guess that's how legends grow!

I hadn't heard about shooting the mice either - but then nothing would surprise me about Eldred as he was a real character of the first degree!

I remember driving up to a Port Wakefield meeting in my trusty Morris Minor and being passed at considerable speed by a tow car with a racing car roped down on an open trailer. As the trailer drew level there was Eldred casually sitting on the trailer mudguard bolting up the exhaust system on his Maserati 6C - all happening at around 60 to 70 mph......

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by kaydee
.....being passed at considerable speed by a tow car with a racing car roped down on an open trailer. As the trailer drew level there was Eldred casually sitting on the trailer mudguard bolting up the exhaust system on his Maserati 6C - all happening at around 60 to 70 mph......

You see this with your own eyes and question that he might have used the machine gun as described?

I'd never heard that, but it doesn't surprise me at all. Was the cigarette lit?

[kaydee]

Originally posted by Ray Bell

You see this with your own eyes and question that he might have used the machine gun as described?
I'd never heard that, but it doesn't surprise me at all. Was the cigarette lit?

Ray, I don't doubt it for one minute - just hadn't heard it before!
I can't recall if Eldred had a cigarette in his mouth - lit or unlit - I was probably too stunned to take in the detail......

[seldo]

Originally posted by kaydee
I remember driving up to a Port Wakefield meeting in my trusty Morris Minor ......... As the trailer drew level there was Eldred casually sitting on the trailer mudguard bolting up the exhaust system on his Maserati 6C - all happening at around 60 to 70 mph......

Must have been a pretty quick Morrie....;)

[kaydee]

Another Collingrove Hill Climb photo for Twister -


Col Riches negotiating "The Wall" in his 1930 Dodge DD Tourer fitted with a Chrysler V8

[Ray Bell]

I've got a picture that Clem gave me that has that car in it, Kevin... it's at Port Wakefield...

When did Riches put the V8 into it? How long did he run it?

[kaydee]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
I've got a picture that Clem gave me that has that car in it, Kevin... it's at Port Wakefield...

When did Riches put the V8 into it? How long did he run it?

Ray, checking through some old race programmes it appears that Col fitted the V8 just prior to the October '58 Port Wakefield meeting and it was still being raced at the opening Mallala meeting in August '61.

However, it appears to have been retired by the April '63 Mallala meeting when Col was listed as running an Austin A90 at that meeting.

(I have previously posted a photo of the Dodge at Port Wakefield - Page 11 of this thread - Post #425)

[Ray Bell]

Thanks for the reminder of that one, Kevin, I'd forgotten it...

Here's a the picture Clem Smith gave me of Riches in his Roadster leading a Simca, an Austin 7 Special and I guess that's Clem in the Holden, isn't it?

[kaydee]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
Thanks for the reminder of that one, Kevin, I'd forgotten it...

Here's a the picture Clem Smith gave me of Riches in his Roadster leading a Simca, an Austin 7 Special and I guess that's Clem in the Holden, isn't it?

Ray, based on the background, the variety of cars and their respective numbers this photo was taken at Dunlop Corner during Event 13, - 6 lap, Invitation Handicap at Port Wakefield on Monday 12th October '59.......

The cars and drivers from l to r are #47 Clem Smith - Holden, #35 Gordon Bedson -750 Special, #31 Graham Lewis - Simca Aronde and #19 Col Riches - Dodge V8 (Sorry can't tell you what lap they're on..........)

[Stan Patterson]

Lets get back on track

url=http://img258.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pict0134ms7.jpg][

Who, why, when and where ?

Stan

[Stan Patterson]

Lets get real

[Stan Patterson]

Sorry .. I dont have a pic of a Cortina......just F1 cars


I must have been de-Firthed


Stan
checks on my Ammo
(hates to be off-topic)

[seldo]

Originally posted by kaydee


Ray, based on the background, the variety of cars and their respective numbers this photo was taken at Dunlop Corner during Event 13, - 6 lap, Invitation Handicap at Port Wakefield on Monday 12th October '59.......

The cars and drivers from l to r are #47 Clem Smith - Holden, #35 Gordon Bedson -750 Special, #31 Graham Lewis - Simca Aronde and #19 Col Riches - Dodge V8 (Sorry can't tell you what lap they're on..........)

Classic! Just love the attitude on the 750 Spl! And I also have a very soft spot for old Dodges, having pretty much learned to drive on a 28 Dodge Flying Four ...with one wheel brakes.......

[Terry Walker]

Bathurst 1969 again: a very young Kevin Bartlett. Nearly 40 years ago . . it makes you think.

And what a fabulous car the 1750 GTV was - I owned one for about 15 years.

[Barrie Hobkirk]

Stan,

On your photo competition.
I'm going to stick my neck out from work here as all my files are at home.

Who: Stan Jones
Why: I read that the car was overheating so the bonnet was left off. I also heard a rumour that someone tripped and fell on the bonnet while it was laying on the ground so it could not be readied to fit in time to run.
When: 23rd of June, 1963
Where: Sandown Park, nr Melbourne, Australia

Although you did not ask "What", I will add that pictured is his very tired looking Maserati 250F chassis 2520.

Cheers,
Barrie

[Ray Bell]

Let's bring it out in the open... looks more like Calder to me...

Stan, when you want to post a pic, please please scroll down to 'hotlink for forums 1' to get your url, and please don't do anything else.

And thanks for the info on Clem's pic, Kevin.

[Stan Patterson]

Hi,

Thanks for posting my pic Ray ... I find Image Shack a little challenging late in the evenings - sometimes!

Barry is absolutely correct - it is Sandown 1963, a retired Stan Jones taking part it in what was possibly Austalia's first historic race/demonstration. I always wondered why he ran with no bonnet..thanks Barry

The engineering works in the background are associated with the Dandenong Road entry overpass construction.

Thanks
Stan

[Ray Bell]

I see where you mean... I was looking at the power lines, of which there are plenty at Calder...

All you do, Stan, is look for that 'hotlink for forums 1' line to copy and paste.

As for the 'first Historic race/demonstration'... there was a full-blown 'Vintage and Historic' race at Warwick Farm on October 14, 1962. I think, however, that the South Australians held such races well before this time. Maybe even in the mid-fifties.

Kevin may remember?

[Stan Patterson]

Shot at 2007-07-19


Another shot of the 250F with Cisitalia in front

Stan

[Leo D]

Originally posted by Terry Walker
Bathurst 1969 again: a very young Kevin Bartlett. Nearly 40 years ago . . it makes you think.

And what a fabulous car the 1750 GTV was - I owned one for about 15 years.

Max Stewart wearing the "shades" ??

[Leo D]

Originally posted by Stan Patterson
Hi,

Thanks for posting my pic Ray ... I find Image Shack a little challenging late in the evenings - sometimes!

Barry is absolutely correct - it is Sandown 1963, a retired Stan Jones taking part it in what was possibly Austalia's first historic race/demonstration. I always wondered why he ran with no bonnet..thanks Barry

The engineering works in the background are associated with the Dandenong Road entry overpass construction.

Thanks
Stan

Can I throw in a curve ball here?

Isn't the "hill" in the back ground a bit big to be the overpass on Dandenong Road?
To have that much "hill" in the background, the shot would be as they exit Dandenong road corner, heading towards the Dunlop Bridge?

[Stan Patterson]

This is about motor racing..not civil engneering....

There were no other hills....

Stan

[Stan Patterson]

The Shot

Was between Dandenong Road Corner and the infamous Chivas/Youl viaduct.....the gentle historic flavour about to be dissolved by the furious clamour of Patto, Stillwell , Davo, Mckay and Amon in the world's fastest racing cars.,....

I can still feel the tension

Stan

[seldo]

Originally posted by Leo D


Max Stewart wearing the "shades" ??

Definitely.

[Ray Bell]

I wonder if that's Lyn Vincent's Fiat 500...

[seldo]

Originally posted by Leo D


Max Stewart wearing the "shades" ??

It also looks very like Brian Foley in the brown jumper with back to camera...

[Terry Walker]

Closeup of the group:

[Stan Patterson]

Davo and Bib in real cars.....2.7 open wheelers....interesting how the Cooper looks stable and business-like while the Brabham almost looks like it is wallowing


Shot at 2007-07-21

[Ray Bell]

Not Foley... nor is it Brian Reed (Stewart's co-driver in the Corona Mk II)...

Possibly Len Goodwin, but I don't think so. I'd say it's just one of those people who just happened to be there. The guy next to Max is vaguely familiar, however.

[Terry Walker]

Here's a puzzle for East Coast experts:

Driver: Dave Gordon:
Car: D J Special, being an HRG chassis, Holden engine, and Lancia sliding pillar front suspension!
Place: Caversham, c 1962

Dave Gordon brought the car to Western Australia from somewhere east, and was a very colourful figure. Eg: He liked to race barefoot, and one day when the CAMS stewards put their foot down, so to speak, he stalked off and came back wearing his wife's pink fluffy bathroom slippers, and raced in those. After 2 years in WA he sold the car to a Bunbury racing identity and vanished back east.

Rumour had it that Dave Gordon was not his real name, but somebody must know something about the distinctive car...

[Robert Bailey]

Originally posted by Stan Patterson
Hi,

Thanks for posting my pic Ray ... I find Image Shack a little challenging late in the evenings - sometimes!

Barry is absolutely correct - it is Sandown 1963, a retired Stan Jones taking part it in what was possibly Austalia's first historic race/demonstration. I always wondered why he ran with no bonnet..thanks Barry

The engineering works in the background are associated with the Dandenong Road entry overpass construction.

Thanks
Stan

Great shot Stan.From memory in Australian Autosport magazine?there is a photo of Jone's in the 250F going past the grandstand,will find it and post article and photo.

[seldo]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
Not Foley... nor is it Brian Reed (Stewart's co-driver in the Corona Mk II)...

Possibly Len Goodwin, but I don't think so. I'd say it's just one of those people who just happened to be there. The guy next to Max is vaguely familiar, however.

Yes - I agree I'm afraid....The close-up doesn't look like Foles - it was just the hair...

[Gordon Graham]

Originally posted by Terry Walker
Here's a puzzle for East Coast experts:

Driver: Dave Gordon:
Car: D J Special, being an HRG chassis, Holden engine, and Lancia sliding pillar front suspension!
Place: Caversham, c 1962

Dave Gordon brought the car to Western Australia from somewhere east, and was a very colourful figure. Eg: He liked to race barefoot, and one day when the CAMS stewards put their foot down, so to speak, he stalked off and came back wearing his wife's pink fluffy bathroom slippers, and raced in those. After 2 years in WA he sold the car to a Bunbury racing identity and vanished back east.

Rumour had it that Dave Gordon was not his real name, but somebody must know something about the distinctive car...

I remember the DJ special, or HRG Holden as I think it was called when the next owner George Webber raced in 63-64. I had a vague memory that Webber had a service station down in Albany. On page 136 of John Medley's Bathurst book there's a rear shot of Silvio Massola in an HRG with Lancia front suspension, and the bodywork is very much how I remember the DJ special. Apparently several HRGs had this bodywork, but Massola's was the only one with Lancia IFS.

[terry mcgrath]

Gordon actually raced it as part of the Dave Sullivan snr race team this was noted on inside covers of early 60's race programmes and son dave remembers gordon seems to think he was escaping debts in the east! I may have his real name written down
George Webber owned a service station in bunbury and was a local identity and remains so, story goes in later years he was shirley finn's minder the locals will know. he is still involved in the vintage car/bike scene.
After george had the car it was almost certainly broken up as vintage car identity bob hadaway found it in a yard in midland in late 60's and when he went back it all been chopped up the only piece he brought was the tailbody work inc a fuel tank which sat in his wembley backyard for years I believe this was sold to someone in late 70's
I have a good pic showing it parked with bonnett off showing holden sengine and lancia suspension
terry





I remember the DJ special, or HRG Holden as I think it was called when the next owner George Webber raced in 63-64. I had a vague memory that Webber had a service station down in Albany. On page 136 of John Medley's Bathurst book there's a rear shot of Silvio Massola in an HRG with Lancia front suspension, and the bodywork is very much how I remember the DJ special. Apparently several HRGs had this bodywork, but Massola's was the only one with Lancia IFS.

[Terry Walker]

Rare colour shot of Lex Davison, HWM Jaguar, Caversham, 1957 AGP meeting. It was entered for Davo in the sports car support race, and here he is practicing in it, but on the day it was actually driven in the race by Bill Patterson.

[Ray Bell]

The people with the Inter seem to be well set up for the sweltering conditions of raceday...

[ken devine]

The HRG raced by Dave Gordon then George Webber was raced by Stan Jones it was described in the
historic racing cars australia as the no2 Bathurst Model.Trevor Eastwood has some panels from the car
and may have a replica built.George Webber has a small car museum in West Midland.

[kaydee]

Photo taken in March 1960 at Australian Tourist Trophy meeting - Longford, Tasmania


Doug Whiteford with his 300S Maserati refuelling at BP

[Stan Patterson]

Kaydee,

That picture is just sensational

There was no finer sight in that period than the Maestro in full flight in the 300S

As much as I admire Derek and the Lotus XV, there is no doubt that a slipping clutch cost Whiteford the 1960 ATT.

Stan

[David Shaw]

I think that Jolly was a good chance in the ATT regardless of Whiteford's clutch.

In Saturday's 5 lap scratch race Whiteford did beat Jolly by 17 seconds, but it was Jolly's first race at Longford. Whiteford set fastest lap with a 2:50.

In the ATT on the Monday, Jolly lead early, from Phillips in the Cooper-Jag, Matich's D-Type and then Whiteford. By lap 6 Phillips was out with transmission worries and Whiteford had passed Matich on the Flying Mile. Whiteford was a bit quicker down the straights than the Lotus XV, but the Lotus was quicker through the twisty bits (although there are not many of them at Longford!) Whiteford did get the margin down to 3 seconds, but they shared fastest lap of 2:50.

All things considered, Whiteford possibly had the edge on Jolly, but I definitely wouldn't think it was cut and dried.