10099 replies to this topic

[Ray Bell]

As I said, Jack Wortmeyer bought the Mildren Chev...

I'm sure Errol Richardson raced it at least once, and it hillclimbed IIRC. And yes, Bob Muir got the Sub, passing it on to Ray Winter.

[Leo D]

Ray, I saw your response metioning Jack Wortmeyer as the purchaser of the car. Unfortunately I'm not familiar with that name, ignorance on my part possibly, where did he fit into the F5000 scene?

David, In regard to the wing, what I was getting at was that other than Graham Hill's lotus, I don't remember any actually collapsing whilst the cars were in motion, hence my question.

[David McKinney]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
As I said, Jack Wortmeyer bought the Mildren Chev...
I'm sure Errol Richardson raced it at least once, and it hillclimbed IIRC.

It was called the SCV-Chevrolet when Richardson hillclimbed it for Wortmeyer in 1973 and 1974

[bradbury west]

[i]Originally posted by kevinbartlett
Ray, you weren't far off the mark with the weight. My memory tells me the Alfa around 350 lbs and Waggott about 230 lbs. usable power range was quite different between the two with the Alfa workable between 4500 rpm and 8000 rpm, Waggott 6800rpm to around 8750 rpm. ......................................Len Bailey WAS the designer of the tub which flexed a little at the rear with the Alfa torque, less so when the Waggott went in. With the suspension being a Ron Tauranac adaption. [/B]

kb, many thanks for the brilliant answer, showing the impact of the changes in weight, power, delivery and dynamics creating in effect a different car.
Roger Lund.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Leo D
Ray, I saw your response metioning Jack Wortmeyer as the purchaser of the car. Unfortunately I'm not familiar with that name, ignorance on my part possibly, where did he fit into the F5000 scene?

Jack was a car owner in the hillclimbing scene, based in Wollongong...

The 'SCV' name comes from 'Supercharged Volkswagen,' which his fast hillclimb car was powered by.

[rms]

Originally posted by Ray Bell


Jack was a car owner in the hillclimbing scene, based in Wollongong...

The 'SCV' name comes from 'Supercharged Volkswagen,' which his fast hillclimb car was powered by.

And still winning Australian Titles in the hands of Peter Gumley.

[Leo D]

The Bob Jane Elfin on the "pad" at Calder.

[John Ellacott]

The great Stan Jones 2.5 lt Type 51 Cooper Climax Forrests Elbow Bathurst Easter 1961.

[John Ellacott]

Same corner, same year David McKay Lola Climax

[Stan Patterson]

Well John,

You got the GREAT part right... the great Stan Jones..what a pic..surely that can't be a BRDC badge on his Cooper....

Didn't Stan know what a Monaro or a GTHO falcon was?

Why was he wasting his time in Grand Prix cars, when it was clear that future Prime Ministers and Local Government would euologise and erect memorials, only over, and for, minor touring car drivers?

Shakes Head

SHAME SHAME

Stan Patterson

[David McKinney]

John
I'm always reluctant to raise questions about colour, especially in 47-year-old pictures..
But - do you think the blue on the Jones Cooper has come out a bit dark? I only saw it once (1961 NZGP) but my memory is that it was a markedly lighter shade. What do you think?

[Ray Bell]

While we're in a questioning mood...

I'm sure that's not McKay in second place in this pic... with the No 6, it just has to be Stillwell.

Originally posted by John Ellacott
Bathurst as it was. Easter 1961 , Stan Jones followed by David McKay and Bill Patterson all in Cooper Type 51s on the run down to Forrests Elbow.

[David McKinney]

I'm sure you're right, Ray
He's even leaning in the Stillwell manner

[John Ellacott]

Yes Ray you are crrect, it is Stillwell, I should have looked more carefully, and yes David this photo does show the car darker than it was. Early Kodachrome taken in the shade always had a blue cast.
I willpost another picture taken in the sun coming up the mountain that shows the car lighter.

[Allen Brown]

Originally posted by John Ellacott
The great Stan Jones 2.5 lt Type 51 Cooper Climax Forrests Elbow Bathurst Easter 1961.

Stunning picture!

[John Ellacott]

Stan Jones Cooper Climax climbing the mountain Easter 1961. This is closer to the correct colour.

[Stan Patterson]

My Dear Sir

Bib Stillwell did NOT lean.


Neil Crompton told me that or was it Sir Jackie Stewart?

I am sure one of those chaps would know..

Humbug

[David Shaw]

Yes Mister Patterson,

There is obviously some confusion with Bermar's father's sister, Miss Eileen Stillwell.

[Stan Patterson]

Dear David,

Nice to see you KBO ..sorry for the Churchillian reference....perhaps after you have looked that up, you might care to research Wimbledon 1928 ...vague what what?.might help old boy.

Anytime you come to the club just ask old Inches for me ..I am usually there..or just over at Naval and Military...wear a jacket though

Stan

[repcobrabham]

*snigger*

[plannerpower]

Warwick Farm; 1962, I think, but I'm sure that will soon be confirmed or corrected.

I would appreciate advice as to the identity of each car & driver; I can identify most but others are more obscure and I'd like to have my dubious identifications confirmed/corrected so that I can note the prints & files for future generations.















More to come; perhaps tomorrow.

[David McKinney]

1967 Australian GP
Grid (left to right) : Hill (F2 Lotus 48), Clark (#6 Lotus 33), Stewart (BRM P261), Geoghegan (Lotus 39), Brabham (Brabham BT23A), unsure, Gardner (Brabham BT16)
Alongside Gardner is supposed to be Chris Irwin in the second BRM, but doesn't look like it

[Ray Bell]

It's Martin, who wasn't listed as being on the grid in either RCN or the AGP book...

Through the first corner the order became Stewart, Clark, Brabham, Hill, Bartlett, Geoghegan, Martin, Irwin and Gardner. Quite a mix-up.

The sports cars in Leger are Jane (4) leading the Elan... not sure, it might be Goodwin or Cape, it's not Meyer. This photo is in practice. The solitary white car is Niel Allen, who won on race day.

The Lotus openwheeler is Clark.

[Leo D]

Originally posted by plannerpower
Warwick Farm; 1962, I think, but I'm sure that will soon be confirmed or corrected.

I would appreciate advice as to the identity of each car & driver; I can identify most but others are more obscure and I'd like to have my dubious identifications confirmed/corrected so that I can note the prints & files for future generations.

I wouldn't mind having a vote on the pics.....
I'm going for 1967 AGP... Warwick Farm
Graham Hill in the 1.6ltr Lotus on the outside front (5)
Jim Clark Lotus Climax v8 middle front row....
Jackie Stewart BRM front row pole position...

Leo Geoghegan Lotus 39 Climax (11)
Jack Brabham near the fence...

No 8.... ?
Inside 3rd row looks like a Mildren car.. Kevin Bartlett or Frank Gardiner.

I'm suggesting this is 1967, because Graham Hill had left BRM after 1966 and drove a 1.6 ltr Lotus in the 67 Tasman series...

2nd and 3rd Shots are Leo Geoghegan in the Lotus 39 Climax
4th shot Jim Clark Lotuse Climax v8
5th Shot Bob Jane Elfin 400, don't know about the Elan behind it
6th Shot Niel Allen Elfin Traco
7th shot I have no idea

Edit: I need to learn how to type faster....

[John Ellacott]

More like 1967 Tasman & Australian Grand Prix meeting February 19.
Car 6 Jim Clark Lotus 33 Climax V8
Car ii Leo Geoghegan Lotus 39 Climax
Car 4 Bob Jane Elfin 400 Repco
Car 2 Niel Allen Elfin 400 Traco Olds

[Leo D]

I got a "server is busy" notice..... then I see everybody was basically coming up with the same answers...

[fines]

That's what you get when four people do research at the same time! Lucky I didn't find this post earlier...

[Ray Bell]

Glad to see you're looking in at such a 'fluffy' thread, fee-nes...

The Mildren car is definitely Gardner, Martin is wearing No 9.

[eldougo]

Originally posted by Leo D


I wouldn't mind having a vote on the pics.....
I'm going for 1967 AGP... Warwick Farm
Graham Hill in the 1.6ltr Lotus on the outside front (5)
Jim Clark Lotus Climax v8 middle front row....
Jackie Stewart BRM front row pole position...

Leo Geoghegan Lotus 39 Climax (11)
Jack Brabham near the fence...

No 8.... ?
Inside 3rd row looks like a Mildren car.. Frank Gardiner. Spencer Martin.......No 9
I'm suggesting this is 1967, because Graham Hill had left BRM after 1966 and drove a 1.6 ltr Lotus in the 67 Tasman series...



Edit: I need to learn how to type faster....

[fines]

I'm not averse to fluff per se, Ray, you should know that.;) Especially when it's concerned with racing down under, and great photography!

It's always nice to see that cars had real "downforce" even before the advent of "ground effects", so they could run upside down on the globe!

[plannerpower]

1967, eh?

I confess that I thought some of the cars a bit "modern" for '62 (the Mustang below, for instance) but I didn't think further; silly of me. Good thing you blokes are on-the-ball.

I think the FJ photo is Des West but, as ever, I'm open to correction.

Here are the remaining ones from a rather odd collection;
















That's it for Warwick Farm, I think.

[David McKinney]

I'll leave these ones for Stan

[fines]

That'll be fun!

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by plannerpower
.....I think the FJ photo is Des West but, as ever, I'm open to correction.....

No, Des was gone from the scene by then. And he usually wore 27 and his car was a lighter colour. I suspect this car is either orange, blue or green.

Here are the remaining ones from a rather odd collection;

I don't remember who it was... but that's a Sunbeam Tiger ex Le Mans IIRC. And I don't recall who it was in the Falcon either, but that's Chris Snowden, I'm fairly sure. Ask him.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by plannerpower

A very different angle, congratulations!

Pete Geoghegan attacking the Northern Crossing, the horse tracks plainly seen, he's about to come roaring past us.

[bradbury west]

[i]Originally posted by Ray Bell
I don't remember who it was... but that's a Sunbeam Tiger ex Le Mans IIRC. [/B]

Ray, if it is Warwick Farm '67 it may have been Jim Abbott who ran it. In a Sept '88 article in T&CC by Nick Brittan, he mentions that the car, the ex Keith Ballisat and Claude Dubois no8 LM car, was in Oz at that time, after last being run in the '66 Euro Hillclimb Ch'ship. Rescued by Jim Abbott, ADU 179B was raced by him in 1967 through to 1969, plus run in various Victoria hillclimbs, before being moved on and going "missing" in '73, later being discovered under a pile of rubble in a warehouse basement in Melbourne in '79.

Found and refurbished by Roger James, at the time of the article and test it was owned by Sydney banker Rick Marks who also had a standard Tiger and an Alpine at the time.

Roger Lund.

[Ray Bell]

There you go, Roger...

I should have remembered that! I think, however, he only ran at Warwick Farm once, and appearances elsewhere would have been sparse. He was mostly a hillclimb man in his later years, bought the Brabham Alfa to put a V8 into it for that purpose.

[seldo]

Originally posted by Ray Bell


And I don't recall who it was in the Falcon either, but that's Chris Snowden, I'm fairly sure. Ask him.

Maybe Wayne Rogerson or Mike Champion - they both ran white Falcons at about that time...

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by seldo
Maybe Wayne Rogerson or Mike Champion - they both ran white Falcons at about that time...

Did Wayne run in Series races? I might see him again in a few days, I'll try to remember to ask...

As it happens, I reckon it's Brian Lawler. This is a Falcon 500 V8, not a GT.

[seldo]

Originally posted by Ray Bell


Did Wayne run in Series races? I might see him again in a few days, I'll try to remember to ask...

As it happens, I reckon it's Brian Lawler. This is a Falcon 500 V8, not a GT.

Correct - all the GTs were gold and you couldn't get another coloured GT until the XTs when I think there was choice of silver, gold, red or white. Could be Lawler too - I'd forgotten him

[David Shaw]

If these were from the '67 AGP meeting, they are too early to be a GT as well. They weren't released until May.

[plannerpower]

Sandown, 20/21 Feb 65; 43 years ago, almost to the day.

Not a happy event as you will know; the loss of the Olde Cobbler hit hard.

Stillwell;




McLaren;




Matich;




Leo Geoghegan (edited in accordance with Ray's advice);




Brabham;




Clark;




McDonald;





My apologies for the poor quality; the prints are somewhat "tired".

[Stan Patterson]

Surely that is GWP himslf in the old T53?

Stan

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by plannerpower
Sandown, 20/21 Feb 65; 43 years ago, almost to the day.

.....Graham Hill;

I'm certain you'll find that's Leo Geoghegan in the Lotus 32, Greg Cusack and Roly Levis behind him.

.....McDonald;

It looks like Patto, Stan... but the grid and report say John Mac...

That's a year, I think, after Bill decided to give up racing... the day he was driving up the straight and noticed a plane overhead, watching it he missed his braking point at Shell and almost didn't make it around. Stuck to flying from then on.

[eldougo]

Just to add my 2 cents worth ,i think it is Brian Lawler in the Falcon 500 he used to get that attiude most of the time.

Pete Geoghegan in the Mustang followed by Bob Holden Cooper S and K.B. in the Alfa gtv.

[Ray Bell]

It's actually Gardner in the GTV at that meeting...

And the Mini No 15 would probably be Laurie Stewart. Foles was generally No 8.

[plannerpower]

I have edited my post, replacing "Hill" with "Geoghegan", but I now note that this report;

http://www.sergent.com.au/tas65a.html

does not mention either Geoghegan or Cusack in connection with Sandown.

Discuss.

[Stan Patterson]

Yes Ray ..i am sure it is the Tiger


What quality we had...

Whiteford, Davison, Jones, Patterson,Stillwell, plus the latter-day Sydney chaps....

Crosses to National Nine News.............Bathurst Tourng cars.......

Bring me a bucket

Sad

[Patrick Fletcher]

Originally posted by Stan Patterson


Crosses to National Nine News.............Bathurst Tourng cars.......

Bugga ........... missed them

[Stan Patterson]

I am sorry Patrick ..

Anybody who missed Patto on-fire in a Cooper missed a treat...

I saw it 3 times at the I'sland in 1960 (T51) and twice at Sandown...1962 (T51)and 1963 (T53)

Just magic

Stan

(Municipal Memorial Pending)