10099 replies to this topic

[Lee Nicolle]

Being an Aussie PB it should be 2.6 12 port 7 main 3 speed with discs. Discs were an option on PB but I am not certain from release or not.
Realistically not a bad car and should have been competitive though they were a little heavy but went well, handled well and the brakes would have been less marginal than most of the day.
The 138 engine fitted to E series and early big taillight PAs [in Oz] was 4 main. the 2.6 was 7 main, as was the 3.3 that was never sold here in PB Though there is a few around.

Edited by Lee Nicolle, 24 June 2010 - 01:52.

[Ron B.]

Being an Aussie PB it should be 2.6 12 port 7 main 3 speed with discs. Discs were an option on PB but I am not certain from release or not.
Realistically not a bad car and should have been competitive though they were a little heavy but went well, handled well and the brakes would have been less marginal than most of the day.
The 138 engine fitted to E series and early big taillight PAs [in Oz] was 4 main. the 2.6 was 7 main, as was the 3.3 that was never sold here in PB Though there is a few around.

Lots in NZ ,even the traffic police had them. I remember being out late one night with a mate in his dads New HQ Kingswood running at full throttle and PB cresta 3.3 followed by 3.3 PA cresta cruising past us like we were parked. The decendent of these cars is surely the Lotus Carlton? ha ha .
I don't think the PB could be called heavy and torque was pretty impressive for an engine strangled with a tiny single barrel carb. The next issue was the PC Cresta which looked like a Chev II nova .
Finally GM NZ,after being humiliated on the race tracks put out the totally insane Victor 3.3 . A Vauxhall victor with a 3.3 six. I often had to do wheel alignments on them which involved straightening the upper control arms. The boss of GM in NZ at the time even had a Viva built with a 3.3 although I only heard of this thing and never saw it.

[Ron B.]

I wonder if Vanguard dissys are the same?

i don't know about that but i remember putting Vanguard valves in a mini head....After running a big drill down the ports. It must have worked because the grill was destroyed by the distributor exiting through it.

[DanTra2858]

1959/60 Jack Myers at Huntley hill Climb, note that the car is running SU carbs, who can forget the modified Sewing Machine that he had so that he could modify his SU needles.
Also in the background is Ron Thorpe in his Hot Rod & the MG TF I think is Holt Binny, the MG TC Special ???

[David Shaw]

Great photo Dan!

It really shows the bulk of the Waggott head.

[Lee Nicolle]

In various threads here recently we have had a pic of a rotary valve Holden and now a Waggott. who has a pic of a Repco?

[Ellis French]

In various threads here recently we have had a pic of a rotary valve Holden and now a Waggott. who has a pic of a Repco?

Peter Mathers restored ex race car from Tasmania

[Lee Nicolle]

Peter Mathers restored ex race car from Tasmania

Thanks Ellis, a very nice shiny one. With nearly the ultimate intake.

[David Shaw]

And there is this great period article that appeared in the Early Holden thread:

Great thanks to Stephen for sending me these scans to post:

[DanTra2858]

Great photo Dan!

It really shows the bulk of the Waggott head.

Thanks David for the kind words but as a 15year old any photo taken was a good photo.

On the subject of Heads for Holdens a guy by the name of Stan Dare here in Wollongong modified a Velox/Cresta head to suit a Holden Grey Motor for one of the local revheads during the earyly to mid 1960's, the only thing that I remember about the head is that it was modified for headbolt patten as was also the block, it worked very well making it one of the quickest grey block Holdens on the south Coast.

Cheers, Daniel

[Ron B.]

Thanks David for the kind words but as a 15year old any photo taken was a good photo.

On the subject of Heads for Holdens a guy by the name of Stan Dare here in Wollongong modified a Velox/Cresta head to suit a Holden Grey Motor for one of the local revheads during the earyly to mid 1960's, the only thing that I remember about the head is that it was modified for headbolt patten as was also the block, it worked very well making it one of the quickest grey block Holdens on the south Coast.

Cheers, Daniel

On that note i have seen a Falcon cross flow head on a red motor ...
Also a vuaxhall 3,3 running the injection from a Mercedes 220SE.

I have a question.
Does anyone have any pictures of Lou Kingsley's 1955 Mercedes 220a racing ? .I have found lots of web pages reporting where he competed up and down the east coast of Australia but no pics of it in action. Being one of the most expensive cars on the road in it's day this must have been a dedicated effort.

[gkennedy]

On that note i have seen a Falcon cross flow head on a red motor ...

Probably the LJ Torana Sports Sedan of Damian Johnson from Melbourne http://www.sportssed...p...s&Itemid=12 http://i174.photobuc....jpg?1276650180 Note that the head is 'rear to front' on the Holden block.

I don't know why you'd bother, though. If you like the Falcon cross-flow that much, save yourself a lot of work and use the whole motor.

[kevinbartlett]

On that note i have seen a Falcon cross flow head on a red motor ...
Also a vuaxhall 3,3 running the injection from a Mercedes 220SE.

I have a question.
Does anyone have any pictures of Lou Kingsley's 1955 Mercedes 220a racing ? .I have found lots of web pages reporting where he competed up and down the east coast of Australia but no pics of it in action. Being one of the most expensive cars on the road in it's day this must have been a dedicated effort.

I have one rather scratchy box brownie one of Lou's Benz that I took age 15 at Mt. Druitt I shall also post a couple of others from that race meeting. It has been so long since I posted pics that MY old age has meant memory of procedure has wilted, so excuse if the images aren't correct.

Edited by kevinbartlett, 06 July 2010 - 02:06.

[david5]

Also.....
The famous 1977 1, 2 finnish at Bathurst was in fact still in XB GT's updated to look like the current model XC 500 Coupes (No XC GT's were built) so contrary to popular belief XB GT's did win at Bathurst albiet with later sheetmetal , grill etc etc.

The #2 Moffat Ford Dealers car was in fact a XC GS 500 shell and is logbooked as such. XB coupe production had ceased when that car was built over the Xmas, new year period, 76/77. The car was fitted with XB front sheetmetal to match Moffats car as the cars were to be "unveiled" as new XCs for the enduros in 1977, the XC was not yet homologated either. Your right in saying there were no XC GTs built as there was no such vehicle, all upgraded XBs being logbooked as either XC GS 500s or Cobras. The Rabold/Parsons Cobra was built from an actual crashed Cobra road car .

Edited by david5, 05 July 2010 - 02:32.

[Lee Nicolle]

Probably the LJ Torana Sports Sedan of Damian Johnson from Melbourne http://www.sportssed...p...s&Itemid=12 http://i174.photobuc....jpg?1276650180 Note that the head is 'rear to front' on the Holden block.

I don't know why you'd bother, though. If you like the Falcon cross-flow that much, save yourself a lot of work and use the whole motor.

The Holden bottom end is a bit stronger and lighter and the Holden oiling is better.Though with the freedoms allowed in Sports Sedan the Falcon motor is probably better and use a 4.1 and less RPM.
Or do as I did 25 years ago and install a Chev. I built and fitted a 400 hp Chev for about the same cost as an Irving head and acillaries would have cost me. Went faster with less maintenance.

[Smedley (Geoff)]

I have one rather scratchy box brownie one of Lou's Benz that I took age 15 at Mt. Druitt I shall also post a couple of others from that race meeting. It has been so long since I posted pics that MY old age has meant memory of procedure has wilted, so excuse if the images aren't correct.

Hi Kev! That must have been before the Morris Minor??

[lyntonh]

These are a couple of grainy, overexposed photos of Pete Geoghegan & the Mustang taken on 9th August 1969 at Oran Park, at the end of practice.

Note the strut under the boot lid.

If my memory serves me right, I remember him running the car with the boot up, in some apparent Colin Chapman-like experiment with down-force.

Whether he raced the car that way, I can't recall, but it only happened this once that I know of.

Whether the scrutineers frowned upon it, or it just didn't work, who knows?

The car was unbeatable at Oran Park that year & most of the next, so why he tried it is a mystery.

Edited by lyntonh, 18 February 2012 - 22:15.

[Ray Bell]

There are photos of Pete with the bootlid up like that at Warwick Farm too...

Again, probably only in practice. As to 'why?'... well, you try to maintain an advantage, don't you?

[Lee Nicolle]

There are photos of Pete with the bootlid up like that at Warwick Farm too...

Again, probably only in practice. As to 'why?'... well, you try to maintain an advantage, don't you?

I have seen pics of the car with the boot up like that too. Dont know wether it was ina race or not.
I agree about maintaing an advantage,, or Phsycing the opposition as i doubt that would have been any advantage at all.

[Smedley (Geoff)]

There are photos of Pete with the bootlid up like that at Warwick Farm too...

Again, probably only in practice. As to 'why?'... well, you try to maintain an advantage, don't you?

I,I,I,rre,reco-con th.that was wwwon offf th tttt immes when ttttthe gge gen eratorr fell fell off cccaused by the the con rrrod ccommmming out of th the bl bl-block, (withe respect to an old pal)

[Ron B.]

Probably the LJ Torana Sports Sedan of Damian Johnson from Melbourne http://www.sportssed...p...s&Itemid=12 http://i174.photobuc....jpg?1276650180 Note that the head is 'rear to front' on the Holden block.

I don't know why you'd bother, though. If you like the Falcon cross-flow that much, save yourself a lot of work and use the whole motor.

Thats the one. it wasn't that difficult apparently and a lot cheaper than using a repco head .You can get a whole falcon for nothing. .
The combustion chamber is the exact same one as found on the 4V clevo heads and the rocker gear is Ford V8 so high perf parts such as roller rockers are cheap. More pros than cons . It's not as mad a Chev six I saw once with one and half Chev V8 heads adapted to fit.

[Ron B.]

I have one rather scratchy box brownie one of Lou's Benz that I took age 15 at Mt. Druitt I shall also post a couple of others from that race meeting. It has been so long since I posted pics that MY old age has meant memory of procedure has wilted, so excuse if the images aren't correct.

many thanks! It is probably one of the few images of that car racing. And as far as i can tell ,probably the only mercedes 220a that ever raced. Not to be confused with the shorter wheel base 180 Diesels that the factory rallied (with great success ) or the odd 219 (220 engine in a 180-190 body with longer nose) that is entered today in various events such as the pan Americana.

[Ray Bell]

Or a Jag head with the centre two cut out and welded back together to fit on a Peugeot block with a Vanguard crank and sleeves?

Some people must just love engineering!

Would 308 heads do anything for a 186?

[Ron B.]

The Holden bottom end is a bit stronger and lighter and the Holden oiling is better.Though with the freedoms allowed in Sports Sedan the Falcon motor is probably better and use a 4.1 and less RPM.
Or do as I did 25 years ago and install a Chev. I built and fitted a 400 hp Chev for about the same cost as an Irving head and acillaries would have cost me. Went faster with less maintenance.

In Brisbane there is a guy nick named Black Dave who is well known to mopar folks. His solution to his perceived lack of power in his Torana was to drop in a Valiant engine. Instant power increase and 12 second 1/4 mile runs at willowbank.

[Ron B.]

Or a Jag head with the centre two cut out and welded back together to fit on a Peugeot block with a Vanguard crank and sleeves?

Some people must just love engineering!

Would 308 heads do anything for a 186?

late ones are alloy so it could be done . The guys at Superformance had/have a 308 with Duggan heads . The carbs (weber DCOE) are mounted on the outside of the heads. Now that looks weird with possibly the widest holden v8 ever conceived . Why? i am damned if I know and when it was offered as running unit for sale at $2500 there were no takers.

[Lee Nicolle]

Thats the one. it wasn't that difficult apparently and a lot cheaper than using a repco head .You can get a whole falcon for nothing. .
The combustion chamber is the exact same one as found on the 4V clevo heads and the rocker gear is Ford V8 so high perf parts such as roller rockers are cheap. More pros than cons . It's not as mad a Chev six I saw once with one and half Chev V8 heads adapted to fit.

Falcon X Flow Alloy heads have at least 3 distinct combustion chambers, none are really like a Cleveland. You can use Clevo rockers though. Surprisingly what Damien is using is not the best flowing one though his car is quite quick.
The OHC Falcon head has also been adapted to a Holden block on a sreeet Torana and reputedly makes very good power.

[Lee Nicolle]

Or a Jag head with the centre two cut out and welded back together to fit on a Peugeot block with a Vanguard crank and sleeves?

Some people must just love engineering!

Would 308 heads do anything for a 186?

Probably very little or Holden would have used them on the Starfire [slowfire] 4. The bore centres are different for a starter. So are hemi valiants.

[Ray Bell]

Don't knock the Starfire 4!

The only car I've ever been 'electronically timed' at 100mph in, and it was so timed twice...

[Ray Bell]

Don't knock the Starfire 4!

The only car I've ever been 'electronically timed' at 100mph in, and it was so timed twice...

[Lee Nicolle]

Don't knock the Starfire 4!

The only car I've ever been 'electronically timed' at 100mph in, and it was so timed twice...

The slowfire was more reliable and leaked far less oil than the Opel it replaced in Sunbirds but was sure no powerhouse. Though somebody used a modified one in a Gemeni rallycar with some success I believe.
In the Toyotas though they were harsh and noisy compared with the 18R they replaced in Coronas. Though power was similar it seemed.

[Ian G]

There was also,at least in the Toyota Corona version,a vibration from the engine,it was in my sisters car from the Day she picked it up until traded in a couple of years later.She kind of adapted but when getting into another car couldn't believe how smooth it was.

[brucemoxon]

The slowfire was more reliable and leaked far less oil than the Opel it replaced in Sunbirds but was sure no powerhouse. Though somebody used a modified one in a Gemeni rallycar with some success I believe.
In the Toyotas though they were harsh and noisy compared with the 18R they replaced in Coronas. Though power was similar it seemed.

That was the George Shepheard - engineered Holden Dealer Team car as driven by Wayne Bell.



Bruce Moxon

[Lee Nicolle]

That was the George Shepheard - engineered Holden Dealer Team car as driven by Wayne Bell.



Bruce Moxon

Thanks Bruce, I was having a seniors moment when I wrote that and could not remember the details.

[David Shaw]

Autopics have a great photo of Hume Weir, it even shows some of the track!
http://www.autopics....c.html?cache=no

[lyntonh]

Some open wheeler photos...Oran Park Gold Star 27th June 1970 to start with...


Love the way open wheelers used to look from the rear


Max Stewart kept taking his hand off the wheel while sliding through the sweeper


John Harvey & ?


Max... same again


From Dunlop bridge Warwick Farm 6th Dec 1969


Ron Grable learning Warwick Farm 14th Feb 1970


Kevin Bartlett ..Close...Warwick Farm 21st Nov 1970


Ken Goodwin & Leo Geoghegan Warwick Farm 21st Nov 1970


Neil Allen sliding through the Warwick Farm esses 1th July 1970


Bob Muir...look at his expression Warwick Farm 6th Dec 1969

Edited by lyntonh, 20 February 2012 - 10:59.

[GD66]

Great set, Lynton !

[Stephen W]

Bob Muir...look at his expression Warwick Farm 6th Dec 1969

Great photo - love the paint job!

[Allen Brown]

Great pictures!

[DanTra2858]

Even though they are small wings back in the 70's I still can not get over the angles that they used to run them at, it was a learning art in those days.

[lyntonh]

I've just finished the scans from the Bathurst Easter Meeting in 1971,
so with apologies to those involved, here are a few of the incidents at or near Forrest's Elbow.

A bike to start with...




Don Holland creased the car up near the dipper.




Fred Gibson rolled to a stop above the elbow to check the damage after tapping the fence up the road somewhere.




It seemed drivable, so he set off down to the pits.


Jim Laing Peach made a mess under braking, & covered the road in rubbish.










...Causing everyone to take wide lines until it cleared.


Don Holland in the reworked Torana included.


? Olsen over the edge.


The bikes finished a couple of days ago!!


OK, so far...


Bob Holden's keeping well away.....


How come Herb Taylor's in front Of Pete?


Turn, you mongrel, turn!!

Edited by lyntonh, 20 February 2012 - 11:14.

[Lee Nicolle]

They are great pictures, thanks Lynton.
A couple of points. Do you think that Don Holland hit Armco by the shape of the dents? And I love the tiny 'peashooter' exhaust on the J LP RX2 compared wth what is deemed necesary these days for a rotary.

[lyntonh]

They are great pictures, thanks Lynton.
A couple of points. Do you think that Don Holland hit Armco by the shape of the dents? And I love the tiny 'peashooter' exhaust on the J LP RX2 compared wth what is deemed necesary these days for a rotary.

As I remember it, Don Holland drifted into the Armco as you suggest & corrugated the car very neatly!!

Luckily his sponsor was on hand.

The JLP Mazda was Series production, so his exhaust was standard.

[Ian G]

Laing-Peach attended the same School as myself(i was a few years younger) and he was also a member of the NSSCC so i sort of followed his career,i think a 10th outright and 3rd in class was his best Bathurst result,1975 in A Dolomite. He also had a good result in the Southern Cross Rally around the same time in a works Subuaru(FWD in those days).

Edited by Ian G, 16 July 2010 - 04:43.

[lyntonh]

So now for the more traditional "non-prang" photos from Bathurst Easter 1971.

A few bikes...


Shadows...


Friction...


The late great Ken Blake...


The Armco's just the right height to go clean over....


Lap one...


The third outfit is amazing...


Plenty of room..


A preview of Pete's Improved Production Falcon


Just like the bikes...


A master at work...


Close...


Next Lap...


Ron Reid always drove Tom Sulman's old car on the limit...
perhaps even harder in 1971, in memory of Tom who died at Bathurst the year before.


Sports sedan Gordini...


?


Speed...

Edited by lyntonh, 20 February 2012 - 11:25.

[Ellis French]

[quote name='lyntonh' date='Jul 17 2010, 08:22' post='4481630']
So now for the more traditional "non-prang" photos from Bathurst Easter 1971.





Could it be possible this pic may be from the Bathurst Hardie Ferrodo 500 meeting in Oct 1970.??
It would have to be taken on Frid or Sat practice as the GTHO Falcon Phase 2 (3rd from front) is
Murray Carters Black car entered by Bob Rollington and it was 2nd reserve and didnt get to race
on the Sunday.

[Catalina Park]

So now for the more traditional "non-prang" photos from Bathurst Easter 1971.

Could it be possible this pic may be from the Bathurst Hardie Ferrodo 500 meeting in Oct 1970.??
It would have to be taken on Frid or Sat practice as the GTHO Falcon Phase 2 (3rd from front) is
Murray Carters Black car entered by Bob Rollington and it was 2nd reserve and didnt get to race
on the Sunday.

My guess is that it is the Rothmans 3 Hour from 1971.
In the October 1970 500 the Bruce McPhee Falcon was number 2 and the Carole Corness/Gloria Taylor Ford Escort was number 42.

According to "The Cradle" the Murray Carter Falcon finished 11th in the Rothmans 3 hour.

[Ray Bell]

The '?' in Olsen is 'Eric', is it not?

The Hustler is driven by John Maroulis, I'm pretty sure.

Thanks for the great pics of JLP at his best...

[Ellis French]

Could it be possible this pic may be from the Bathurst Hardie Ferrodo 500 meeting in Oct 1970.??
It would have to be taken on Frid or Sat practice as the GTHO Falcon Phase 2 (3rd from front) is
Murray Carters Black car entered by Bob Rollington and it was 2nd reserve and didnt get to race
on the Sunday.

My guess is that it is the Rothmans 3 Hour from 1971.
In the October 1970 500 the Bruce McPhee Falcon was number 2 and the Carole Corness/Gloria Taylor Ford Escort was number 42.

According to "The Cradle" the Murray Carter Falcon finished 11th in the Rothmans 3 hour.

Thanks for that info.
I was at the Hardie Ferrodo in 1970 and Murrays car only ran in practice and there are not many pics of it.

[Lee Nicolle]

Just as matter ogf interest did anyone race a HG 350 Monaro? The pic of the HT racing with Toranas and Pacers triggered this thought. Mechanically they were near identical. GMH had stopped concentrating on the Monaro and were more interested in the Torana. I know a few people raced both HQ Coupes and later 4 doors but I cannot remember any HGs. And has anyone any pics? Lynton?

[brucemoxon]

I'll put my 2c in - the proddy cars won't be the Bathurst 500, as none of the cars appear to have 'Hardie-Ferodo 500' stickers.

Great photos. Those sidecar racers were nuts. Still are. Nuts.



Bruce Moxon