53 replies to this topic

[pRy]

I got thinking today about what must be going on in Alonsos mind right now. ITV commented that he was on his mobile phone behind the pits 5 minutes before the formation lap and he clearly arrived rather late to his car.

Prior to this, and for I'd say around 15 minutes, Ron Dennis had a long private chat with Lewis.. probably briefing him etc, and it's clear for all to see that Lewis is the focus today.

Lewis then goes out and passes Alonso in turn one and shows him immediate pace.

So I got thinking that perhaps McLaren have made a slight error in introducing Lewis and Alonso to the team at the same time. Alonso has been used to a certain status at Renault of being the team leader, and I wonder if the attention Lewis is getting is in a way causing Alonso to feel left out or unappreciated.

And then I got wondering if the long term relationship between Lewis and McLaren may ultimately cause problems and friction between Alonso and McLaren. Who will the team favour? Will Ron in his heart be able to tell Lewis to move over for Alonso?

Perhaps it's nothing, and after this weekend once the hype has died down, all will even itself out.. but Alonso to me seemed distant at the start. I do feel that there is a slight potential situation for McLaren to be unsure as to who they should back. Of course, circumstances may tell them.. Lewis for example could DNF the first two races. But if it ultimately came down to a team order... who is convinced that Ron would tell Lewis to get out of the way?

It will be interesting to see how it develops.

[slick1jayj]

I think you will see FA have a meltdown. Right now Lewis seems to be the real deal. He's going to give FA a run for the money. It won't be long till FA is going off about how the team isn't helping him win the championship. Ron won't be as "nice" about it as Flav was.

[kar]

His comments in the press will be gold if Lewis finishes in front of him.

[ensign14]

If they'd've kept PdlR in the car, they'd've had 2nd and 7th.

[smirnoff-ice]

watch the start again. alonso braked very early to be safe ... and hamilton very late and passed fernando. that's all.

[fasttrack]

Well, in there's someone in F1 that know how is to manage a team with two strong drivers, it's Ron Dennis. If he was able to survive managing Senna and Prost, I think he can do it with Alonso and Hamilton.

BTW Hamilton is *really* good.

[Cojayar]

Originally posted by ensign14
If they'd've kept PdlR in the car, they'd've had 2nd and 7th.

These are facts.

[MattFoster]

Yeah it will be interesting to see how Alonso handles the wave of patriotic fervor that will come from the British Press now.

Got to feel sorry for him really

[Chubby_Deuce]

Originally posted by smirnoff-ice
watch the start again. alonso braked very early to be safe ... and hamilton very late and passed fernando. that's all.

Surely this would require some sort of punishment, not pressing for the win and all.

[Mauseri]

Strategy, not a mistake to have 2 fast drivers.

[VoidNT]

Originally posted by MattFoster
Yeah it will be interesting to see how Alonso handles the wave of patriotic fervor that will come from the British Press now.

Alonso will survive, he has his Spanish press with their own patriotic fervor behind him

[Calorus]

Originally posted by VoidNT


Alonso will survive, he has his Spanish press with their own patriotic fervor behind him

Welcome to the mystical world of patriotism. Is this your first visit?

[Peeko]

Originally posted by fasttrack
Well, in there's someone in F1 that know how is to manage a team with two strong drivers, it's Ron Dennis. If he was able to survive managing Senna and Prost...

Dennis survived, but he coudn't manage them.

[vsubravet]

Originally posted by Peeko

Dennis survived, but he coudn't manage them.

1988 & 1989 - won both the titles, with both Senna & Prost in the team; if you don't call that management, then what is?

[vsubravet]

Originally posted by pRy
I got thinking today about what must be going on in Alonsos mind right now. ITV commented that he was on his mobile phone behind the pits 5 minutes before the formation lap and he clearly arrived rather late to his car.

Prior to this, and for I'd say around 15 minutes, Ron Dennis had a long private chat with Lewis.. probably briefing him etc, and it's clear for all to see that Lewis is the focus today.

Lewis then goes out and passes Alonso in turn one and shows him immediate pace.

So I got thinking that perhaps McLaren have made a slight error in introducing Lewis and Alonso to the team at the same time. Alonso has been used to a certain status at Renault of being the team leader, and I wonder if the attention Lewis is getting is in a way causing Alonso to feel left out or unappreciated.

And then I got wondering if the long term relationship between Lewis and McLaren may ultimately cause problems and friction between Alonso and McLaren. Who will the team favour? Will Ron in his heart be able to tell Lewis to move over for Alonso?

Perhaps it's nothing, and after this weekend once the hype has died down, all will even itself out.. but Alonso to me seemed distant at the start. I do feel that there is a slight potential situation for McLaren to be unsure as to who they should back. Of course, circumstances may tell them.. Lewis for example could DNF the first two races. But if it ultimately came down to a team order... who is convinced that Ron would tell Lewis to get out of the way?

It will be interesting to see how it develops.

Very simple, the team has a No.1 driver - FA, and RD is very enthusiastic about him. RD may not be like Flavio but he does go to great lengths to keep his drivers happy. I think you are reading too much into this whole thing.

[Dudley]

Originally posted by ensign14
If they'd've kept PdlR in the car, they'd've had 2nd and 7th.

I think this is the central point.

[indian]

Maybe, it's good for FA in a way that the focus (of the press) is on Hamilton. That way he can quietly go about getting his job (WDC) done.

[gem]

Alonso talked about having to change his style of driving in the media. Just wait a little, or hire Arrow to teach him.

[MattFoster]

Originally posted by vsubravet


1988 & 1989 - won both the titles, with both Senna & Prost in the team; if you don't call that management, then what is?

The reason they won both titles is that they had by far the best car on the grid. A room full of monkey would have team managed a championship with with the Mac in 88.

[Burai]

I think the key is that Alonso just doesn't need the sort of attention and preparation that Lewis does. Today was a very significant event for Hamilton. His first GP, little experience of an F1 car, a car that's fast enough to run top-3.

The pressure on a person in that position is immense and lets not forget the hyped rookies that have crashed and burned in the past due to poor preparation. Today had to go right for Lewis and for that reason alone, he needed all the attention of the team. And we see the fruits of that - a solid third place with a minimum of mistakes. Very impressive.

For Fernando, he's been there done that already. He doesn't need to be prepared, he doesn't need the focus or the attention. He's a two-time world champion. He's done it all already and is the sort of person that can get into a car and get the maximum out of it with little fuss and bother. And we can see the fruits of that too - he drove a mature, controlled race and capitalised on Hamilton's inability to handle traffic and took second place when it mattered.

Ultimately, Alonso would have weighed up this situation before he even put pen to paper. He knew that McLaren don't have a strict driver tiering system and that they usually have two superstars in the car. He would have predicted that he'd have Hamilton, Raikkonen or Montoya alongside him, none of whom are easy pushovers. He knew he'd have to assert himself to become number 1 in the team.

To be honest, suggesting that he'd let a world title or race win slip away because he couldn't bring himself to ask Lewis to move over shows that you just don't know the sort of man Ron Dennis is. At all.

[Mrv]

Time will only tell. I felt that Alonso going to Mclaren was a big mistake. Alonso with his personality will not fit in at Mclaren IMO. It won't be long till he starts to whine about the Mclaren and the team. Lewis will push him all year. With the British press behind Lewis, Alonso will start to feel unwanted at Mclaren.

[Paul Prost]

I've often thought that Alonso-Hamilton-McLaren 2007 = Piquet-Mansell-Williams-1986.

i.e., bring a double world champion into a top team on the way back to the top, only for the #2 driver to upstage him.

OK, so Mansell had a whole season under his belt at Williams before Piquet arrived, but Hamilton has been 'part of the furniture' at McLaren for a while now.

Will be interesting on many levels to see how this pans out.

[hsvone]

Originally posted by Mrv
Time will only tell. I felt that Alonso going to Mclaren was a big mistake. Alonso with his personality will not fit in at Mclaren IMO. It won't be long till he starts to whine about the Mclaren and the team. Lewis will push him all year. With the British press behind Lewis, Alonso will start to feel unwanted at Mclaren.

Bullshit! Although it WILL be interesting to see Alonso's face when LH beats him fair and square for the first time, 'cos mark my words it WILL happen.

[Spunout]

This is getting crazy.

2XWDC vs rookie. Yes Hamster gave Fred a run for his money this time, but it is unlikely such trend continues.

AFAIK Alonso was ready to partner Montoya or even Räikkönen. Why should partnering Hamilton cause any problems?

[pippin]

Its not a mistake it makes good sense to have a two time world champ alongside a rookie. No matter how good Lewis is he ain't gonna get the better of Nando this year thats for sure. I wouldn''t be surprised to see the odd outburst or two from Nando towards the team at some point though. That seems to be his way and he won't surpress it for a whole season.

[GT Racing Online Magazine]

Originally posted by Spunout
This is getting crazy.

2XWDC vs rookie. Yes Hamster gave Fred a run for his money this time, but it is unlikely such trend continues.

AFAIK Alonso was ready to partner Montoya or even Räikkönen. Why should partnering Hamilton cause any problems?

the only unlikely thing we've seen insofar this season is a rookie upstaging a 2 time wdc. any thing else is speculation, alonso never partnered kr or jpm so how he would have handled or reacted to that is a scenario existing only in your head. having heard nonso's attitude to being upstaged by his team mate in previous seasons i wouldn't be surprised to see him crack if hammy can keep the ridiculous brit expectations at bay

[Mohican]

This thread is...premature. We have one race, and you are alreday speculating about Alonso going to pieces. Look instead at what happened around the second pit stop that left Alonso in second place and Hamilton in third. No coincidence that.

Let's be happy that Hamilton did so well. The racing press is not always right, but in this case it appears to be right.

[hsvone]

Yeah one swallow does not make a summer or something like that.

[HSJ]

Originally posted by Spunout
This is getting crazy.

2XWDC vs rookie. Yes Hamster gave Fred a run for his money this time, but it is unlikely such trend continues.

AFAIK Alonso was ready to partner Montoya or even Räikkönen. Why should partnering Hamilton cause any problems?

Why?Stats don't translate into skill on track, so your "2xWDC vs. rookie" line is irrelevant. FA might have over-estimated himself and under-estimated the other guy (LH/KR/JPM).

[Ferrari_F1_fan_2001]

It's unlikely this trend will continue so I don't know why people are reading too much into it. Fernando's experience paid off today when he leap-frogged Lewis. It will happen throughout the season and he will beat him by a significant margin. When/if Lewis makes a mistake and crashes out and people start slating him, i wonder what his reaction will be like? With Fernando it will be 'I'm world champion, I pushed, don't doubt my abilities' and it won't phase him. That said I was MIGHTILY impressed by Hamilton today. Best debut I've ever seen (only started following F1 since 1999 so can't remember others). Most likely a future WDC but Fernando will have the upperhand throughout the season unless bad luck swings it LH's way.

[Jacquesback]

Don't forget that Albert park is never a good track for Nando. Lets wait until a few races are gone before crowning Lewis the next King of England.

[HBoss]

While the brits might be raving about Hamilton, some people are clearly desperate to see Alonso fail. I think it has to do with Alonso upsetting them last year.

[Fortymark]

. (Livio Oricchio – O Estado de Sao Paulo) For Alonso, what is the difference for you in having a teammate who really pushes you for the first time in your Formula One career?

FA: I am not agreed with you on that. I think I have had difficult moments with Trulli in 2004 at the beginning he won the Monaco race and he had more podiums than me. Fisichella normally started better than me the season and in 2005 he won the Australian Grand Prix and last year he won in Malaysia as well. So I have more or less similar to what I had today. Hopefully we can keep this level of competition inside the team all through the season .


Atleast he says he doesn´t have a problem with it ;)

[FrankB]

Originally posted by pRy
I got thinking today about what must be going on in Alonsos mind right now. ITV commented that he was on his mobile phone behind the pits 5 minutes before the formation lap and he clearly arrived rather late to his car.

Prior to this, and for I'd say around 15 minutes, Ron Dennis had a long private chat with Lewis.. probably briefing him etc, and it's clear for all to see that Lewis is the focus today.

You're a manager with two drivers who are both new to your team. One has 6 seasons of Formula 1 experience behind him, nearly 90 starts and two championships. He's relaxed enough to be making a phone call just before the start of the first race of the new season. The other driver is about to make his first ever Formula 1 start. Where would you concentrate your time?

I think this is a case of "Move Along! Nothing to see here!"

[as65p]

I would say that beside the obvious brilliance Hamilton showed today , Alonso was equally impressive in his own way.

The start went wrong and he got overtaken by his teammate - so what? He did not look flustered or desperate at all but instead quietly got on to make the best of the situation, bid his time without jeopardizing the teams chances and pounced when his opportunity came.

Sometimes KR looked more desperate in the past when JPM challenged him, for example. Even MS, despite his stature at Ferrari, wasn't always that cool when Irvine or Barichello got close to him.

It's obvious that the attempts to denigrade either FA's or LH's performance today only stems from the respective other fanboy side, but the simple truth is that both did a near-perfect job today (as did KR, for that matter).

[miniman]

Alonso was by far the better driver today, Hamilton will do well to learn from the "old" master and I believe it will be some time before Lewis he will be able to surpass Fernando.

I think however that the 2 are the perfect pairing for McLaren: the driver of the day and the driver of the near future.

[Peeko]

Originally posted by vsubravet


1988 & 1989 - won both the titles, with both Senna & Prost in the team; if you don't call that management, then what is?

When they were first paired up in 88 they were working together. A year and a bit later they were taking each other out and not speaking. No I don't call that management. The titles were down to the designers and Honda, and as a result the cars were in a league of their own...very little to do with Dennis.

[TIPO61]

Originally posted by fasttrack
Well, in there's someone in F1 that know how is to manage a team with two strong drivers, it's Ron Dennis. If he was able to survive managing Senna and Prost, I think he can do it with Alonso and Hamilton.

BTW Hamilton is *really* good.

How did he handle Kimi and Moantoya?

[jimm]

Originally posted by TIPO61


How did he handle Kimi and Moantoya?

He handled them fine...right up until JPM decided to leave...and was probably on his way out anyway.

No down side for Ron. BTW, Senna and Prost had alot to do with why the 88 car looked so good.

[FLB]

Originally posted by Paul Prost
I've often thought that Alonso-Hamilton-McLaren 2007 = Piquet-Mansell-Williams-1986.

i.e., bring a double world champion into a top team on the way back to the top, only for the #2 driver to upstage him.

OK, so Mansell had a whole season under his belt at Williams before Piquet arrived, but Hamilton has been 'part of the furniture' at McLaren for a while now.

Will be interesting on many levels to see how this pans out.

I actually think this is not such a bad example. Before late 1985, Mansell was a nobody who had lost the race (and ultimately his Lotus drive) at Monaco in 1984. When Piquet arrived at Williams, even the British press thought the Brazilian would make mincemeat out of him. Rio, where Mansell went off in the early laps and Piquet won, was not considered a true representation of their respective pace. Most people thought Mansell had been quick for the last few races of 1985 and the first of 1986, but that Piquet would come to dominate him.

It was only after Spa that Mansell began to be considered as a Championship contender.

[Tenmantaylor]

Originally posted by hsvone
Yeah one swallow does not make a summer or something like that.

Hehe I like that one.

However, come summer, I seriously, seriously think that Hamiltons tally against FA will be more impressive than Fisis over a similar time period during any point in the last two years.

Indy and German GPs of 06 aside, only in races where Alonso made mistakes or had car problems did I ever see Fisichella challenge Alonso for sheer pace like Lewis did today. And its only his first race on a track hes never driven before. Hes going to improve alot in the coming races. Alonso should be very worried indeed.

PS I hope Hamster doesnt stick for 2 reasons: 1- We already have one in Richard Hammond of Top Gear fame and 2- Its really crap to be named after a rodent that 5 year old kids look after.

[jmarinma]

I think Lewis made an excellent job. He is a future WDC, for sure. And for Alonso, the way he managed his chances was brilliant, never
put a foot wrong (as did Lewis but it is normal since he's a rookie, or even Kimi). Moreover, I think that Alonso also had a nice
attitude towards LH, he was 1,5 - 2 seconds behind him until the pitstop arrived, avoiding pressure that could force LH make an error. It was obvious he doesn't liked the idea of trying to pass LH on track. Also I think he saved his machinery and fuel. Very intelligent
and mature as expected from a 2xwdc. It was a shame we couldn't see the true pace of the McLaren compared with Ferrari. I don't think the difference is so big. For instance, I think sector 1 and 2 on the last lap of Alonso before the second pitstop was terrific, very close to kimi's best.

[Menace]

Originally posted by HBoss
While the brits might be raving about Hamilton, some people are clearly desperate to see Alonso fail.

AND Kimi. But what's new on that front? As soon as you are talked of as the best driver in the sport, the 'haters' arrive in numbers. That's just how it is, no matter what sport.

Hamilton did very well indeed, but to use one race as an sample is a tad ridiculous. Fernando is a 2xWDC, and unless you beleive he achieved that all through being in the right place at the right time, your in for a reality check. Would you bet your money on Fernando losing the WDC race to young Hamilton? Really?

I think Hamilton could very well turn out to be the real deal. However, there is no chance in hell he will actually upstage Alonso this year. Perhaps next year, and thats giving the guy awful lot of credit since we havent seen him over a full season yet! Mclaren is ofcourse liking the press coverage they get from having a rookie wonderboy such as Hamilton actually race Fernando. Good for him, but lets keep our expectations in check here!

What comes to Fernando's position within the team, that is all just pure speculation, and perhaps wishful thinking in some cases. I don't buy it.

[jigc]

Originally posted by HBoss
While the brits might be raving about Hamilton, some people are clearly desperate to see Alonso fail. I think it has to do with Alonso upsetting them last year.

i agree

[Owen]

Alonso will relish the challenge offered by Lewis.
Unlike Schu who ran away from taking on Kimi in equal cars.

[Sith]

I remember this time last year everyone was singing the praises of Nico after his 1st race.....

[Owen]

Originally posted by Sith
I remember this time last year everyone was singing the praises of Nico after his 1st race.....

And he faded into lower mid field obscurity. But a fair degree of that was due to the failings of the team and car as the season unfolded (his team mate hardly faired any better).

[Mat]

This reminds me of Seinfeld. A thread all about nothing.

[Orin]

Originally posted by pRy
I got thinking today about what must be going on in Alonsos mind right now. ITV commented that he was on his mobile phone behind the pits 5 minutes before the formation lap and he clearly arrived rather late to his car.

Prior to this, and for I'd say around 15 minutes, Ron Dennis had a long private chat with Lewis.. probably briefing him etc, and it's clear for all to see that Lewis is the focus today.

Lewis then goes out and passes Alonso in turn one and shows him immediate pace.

So I got thinking that perhaps McLaren have made a slight error in introducing Lewis and Alonso to the team at the same time. Alonso has been used to a certain status at Renault of being the team leader, and I wonder if the attention Lewis is getting is in a way causing Alonso to feel left out or unappreciated.

And then I got wondering if the long term relationship between Lewis and McLaren may ultimately cause problems and friction between Alonso and McLaren. Who will the team favour? Will Ron in his heart be able to tell Lewis to move over for Alonso?

Perhaps it's nothing, and after this weekend once the hype has died down, all will even itself out.. but Alonso to me seemed distant at the start. I do feel that there is a slight potential situation for McLaren to be unsure as to who they should back. Of course, circumstances may tell them.. Lewis for example could DNF the first two races. But if it ultimately came down to a team order... who is convinced that Ron would tell Lewis to get out of the way?

It will be interesting to see how it develops.

I think this is a very good point. I get the impression that Alonso is a little unhappy at the moment, he doesn't feel like he's at 100% with the Bridgestones (I guess nor does Raikkonen for that matter), and he can also sense the great affection within the team for Hamilton. He's used to being in a team where he is the de facto number one driver and has the team's undivided attention. At McLaren he now has to get used to equal treatment right up to the latter stages of the championship. Worse than that, from the evidence of the first race, he's been paired with a rookie of exceptional talent and self-belief. All this could have been made sweeter if McLaren had produced a dominant car but, on the evidence of Melbourne (caveat: IIRC the track usually flatters Ferrari), he seems destined to lose his championship at the end of the season. There can't appear to be many plus points for Alonso at the moment.

[Mrv]

Thought I would resurrect this thread. Interesting about the comments made at the start of the season on Lewis vs Fernando. I knew that having both these drivers on the same team would lead to serious problems.