Jump to content


Photo

Speed's ultimate price: the toll...


  • Please log in to reply
3510 replies to this topic

#751 LB

LB
  • Member

  • 13,561 posts
  • Joined: February 01

Posted 03 January 2003 - 01:59

Originally posted by Paul Newby
An Irish FF driver (team mate to James Courtney) killed at Knockhill(?) in 1999


almost certain you mean Neil Shanahan who has been mentioned and it was Donington not Knockhill as far as I can remember there hasn't been a fatality at Knockhill - not among cars anyway. ( awaits correction)

Advertisement

#752 Barry Lake

Barry Lake
  • Member

  • 2,169 posts
  • Joined: February 00

Posted 03 January 2003 - 08:37

In May 1957, the following fatality is said to have occurred. It is historically important because it supposedly was the final spur for Henry Ford II to go along with GM and Chrysler in an agreement for the car companies to stay out of motor racing and not to advertise motor racing results.

"The death of an eight year old boy, and four others injured at Martinsville, Virginia, when a car driven by Billy Myers bounced off that driven by Tom Pistone and sliced through the guard rail."

Can anyone put an exact date on the crash, and perhaps add some more details?

#753 Criceto

Criceto
  • Member

  • 201 posts
  • Joined: August 00

Posted 03 January 2003 - 16:36

Barry, this is from Greg Duerden's "Forty Years of Stock Car Racing vol1"

Grand National round #17, Virginia 500, May 19 1957.

On lap 441, leader Billy Myers was trying to lap Tom Pistone when the two vehicles tangled wheels. Myers' Mercury crashed through the guardrail, hurtled the wall and landed in an area plainly marked "No Spectators Allowed". But several spectators were standing along the edge of the track.

Alvin Helsabeck, 8 years old, was among those in the path of Myers' errant Mercury. Helsabeck was gravely injured when hit directly by Myers; the child underwent immediate brain surgery at Roanoke General Hospital. The race, of course, was immediately red-flagged and brought to a halt.

James Franklin and Rylon Jones, both of Patrick Springs, VA were seriously injured. Franklin, 19, suffered severe head and facial lacerations. Dalton (sic?), 29, suffered head and internal injuries. They were transported to Martinsville General Hospital.

Spectators Aubrey Riser, 44, of Hazel, VA and Wayne Braughn, 24, of Dobson, NC were treated and released."


That's all it has, I'm afraid. No report on the outcome of the child's surgery, and a question mark over the name of one of the other spectators. Duerden's books are a great resource, but with 50 years of 30+ races per season, he can be forgiven, perhaps, for some lapses and skims when it comes to research on specific incidents.

#754 Jim Thurman

Jim Thurman
  • Member

  • 7,242 posts
  • Joined: February 01

Posted 03 January 2003 - 23:10

Originally posted by Criceto
Barry, this is from Greg Duerden's "Forty Years of Stock Car Racing vol1"

That's all it has, I'm afraid. No report on the outcome of the child's surgery, and a question mark over the name of one of the other spectators. Duerden's books are a great resource, but with 50 years of 30+ races per season, he can be forgiven, perhaps, for some lapses and skims when it comes to research on specific incidents.


Criceto,

Thank you for posting that section, saved me from having to dig the book out and do it :up:

That should be Greg Fielden .

If the 8 year old had died, I'm sure the newspaper accounts he checked from the time would have noted it. That's par with U.S. newspaper coverage. If someone is injured, it quickly becomes old news...if they die, well then that's something to go on about. With a project the scope he was doing, he probably didn't have time to check for any follow-up reports (they might not have been there anyway).

Fielden's books were a very good series. He used what records NASCAR had available (they'd probably charge him thousands just for access now! : ), augmented by newspaper accounts. As one might expect, there were some gaps in NASCAR's files, particularly from the early years. Far better than what former NASCAR Western champion Jack McCoy found when he hoped to use records from NASCAR's PCLM/WGN/GNW series for his book. I don't think it will be possible to re-construct the Western series anywhere close to what Fielden did for the Grand National series (and in subsuquent book - Convertible and Speedway Division).


Jim Thurman

#755 Criceto

Criceto
  • Member

  • 201 posts
  • Joined: August 00

Posted 04 January 2003 - 01:44

As I said - a certain leeway should be allowed for lapses and skims....!

How the blue blazes did I think one author name and write another totally different one?

Ah well, the text quoted is as per the book.

#756 Milan Fistonic

Milan Fistonic
  • Member

  • 1,769 posts
  • Joined: September 00

Posted 04 January 2003 - 09:39

Steve Radford (23) was killed on April 13, 1985 when the Mk 3 Escort, driven by his father Ray, crashed into a tree during the Plains National Rally.

#757 Barry Lake

Barry Lake
  • Member

  • 2,169 posts
  • Joined: February 00

Posted 04 January 2003 - 13:33

Originally posted by Criceto
How the blue blazes did I think one author name and write another totally different one?


Very easily, Tim, very easily.

Thanks for the information.


Milan, I have been quite hardened from an early age on the subject of motor racing deaths, but this one made me feel quite sick in the stomach. I can only imagine how the poor father must have felt - probably still feels.

#758 jarama

jarama
  • Member

  • 1,129 posts
  • Joined: September 00

Posted 04 January 2003 - 18:17

From "Sport-Auto", august 1971:

Christian & Yves Serradori, brothers, french, killed during the "Coupe des Alpes", while sharing a Lancia.
(1971 "Coupe des Alpes", 21st-26th June)

Jacky Norman, 22 y.o., pressumably french, killed during the "Rallye du Touquet".
(1971 "Rallye du Touquet", 5th-6th June)

Carles.

#759 Milan Fistonic

Milan Fistonic
  • Member

  • 1,769 posts
  • Joined: September 00

Posted 05 January 2003 - 01:49

A BB search doesn't show either of these two drivers as being listed in this thread.

Jim Malloy died while practising at Indianapolis on the weekend of May 20/21, 1972. The obituary in Motoring News doesn't specify which day he died or the car he was driving at the time.

Ivo Grauls died when his Chevrolet Camaro crashed at Chimay on May 21, 1972. His car left the track on the fastest part of the circuit, plunged across a field and vaulted an embankment down on to a railway line. He had started the race in a very tired state after working on the car all the previous night and it is thought that that mght have been a reason for the crash.

Advertisement

#760 Rainer Nyberg

Rainer Nyberg
  • Member

  • 1,768 posts
  • Joined: October 00

Posted 05 January 2003 - 09:27

This page http://www.indymotor...com/500d-72.htm gives the date of death of Jim Malloy as the 14MAY1972. This means that it occured the previous weekend.

The page also gives details of the accident.

#761 Barry Lake

Barry Lake
  • Member

  • 2,169 posts
  • Joined: February 00

Posted 05 January 2003 - 15:15

US book Dirt! says Malloy crashed Sunday 14th, died Thursday 18th.

#762 Jim Thurman

Jim Thurman
  • Member

  • 7,242 posts
  • Joined: February 01

Posted 06 January 2003 - 08:18

Originally posted by Criceto
As I said - a certain leeway should be allowed for lapses and skims....!

How the blue blazes did I think one author name and write another totally different one?

Ah well, the text quoted is as per the book.


Tim,

Thanks for posting the text. I really appreciated it saving me from digging out the Fielden book (this time :) )

I still maintain the boy didn't die, or it would have come up. I doubt Fielden, even working under time constraints and focusing on another area, would have missed it.

Re: Jim Malloy

I can't tell you how many dates I've seen given for his death. Probably a lot to do with the fact he died four days after the accident. I'll check Autoweek. When my brother brought me the previously stored away collection, a newspaper clipping on the Malloy accident fell out of that week's issue...so those two will pinpoint it.

Malloy was a good driver. I will always remember his comments on being first out of the 1970 Indy 500 (which my brother and I watched on the big screen telecast at the Los Angeles Forum). The guy interviewing him ended with "Well, better luck next year Jim" to which Malloy laughed and said "I sure can't do any worse!"


Jim Thurman

#763 fines

fines
  • Member

  • 9,647 posts
  • Joined: September 00

Posted 06 January 2003 - 17:35

So sad he did worse two years later... :cry:

The "500 Daily Track Summary" clearly says he died May 18: "Jim Malloy passed away at 10:35 a.m. today in Methodist Hospital (...)"

#764 dbltop

dbltop
  • Member

  • 1,662 posts
  • Joined: September 00

Posted 07 January 2003 - 08:56

This from the Jan.6 edition of the Toronto Star."One driver was killed and another was injured when their rally car veered off a road and landed on its roof during a race yesterday. The accident happened in Haellefors, about 150 kilometres west of Stockholm during one of the first sections of the Bergslagsrallyt. The two men were co-drivers in the car, police said. Their identities were not released." Does anyone have anymore information on who this might have been?

#765 Rainer Nyberg

Rainer Nyberg
  • Member

  • 1,768 posts
  • Joined: October 00

Posted 07 January 2003 - 12:33

The fatal accident on the Bergslagsrallyt involved a Volvo 240 driven by Lars Mårtensson, 42, his co-driver Mats Åkesson, 40, lost his life in this accident. The driver lost control of his car and the car crashed out and hit a tree with the roof first.

Source : http://www.aftonblad...,247799,00.html

#766 LB

LB
  • Member

  • 13,561 posts
  • Joined: February 01

Posted 12 January 2003 - 02:19

11 Jan 2003 18:15 GMT

Tragedy hits Dakar Rally

PARIS (Reuters) - Bruno Cauvy, the French co-driver of a Toyota team car, has died in a crash during the 10th stage of the Dakar Rally.
"A helicopter was sent to the scene. The car was upside down when the rescue team arrived 27 minutes later and the doctors could do nothing but confirm Bruno Cauvy was dead," organisers said.

Cauvy, 48, was the co-driver of car number 280. The driver, Daniel Nebot, escaped unhurt in the 512-km- (318-mile-) race from Zilla to Sarir in Libya on Saturday. The crash occurred at the 270th km.


Not a good start to the year but it is the Dakar that could probably have a thread to itself.

#767 Milan Fistonic

Milan Fistonic
  • Member

  • 1,769 posts
  • Joined: September 00

Posted 14 January 2003 - 03:24

On February 28, 1988 Dave Adams, 34, was killed when the MG Metro 6R4 he was co-driving with Steve Whiteford crashed sideways into a tree at the end of special stage 5 of the Longleat Stages Rally.

#768 Milan Fistonic

Milan Fistonic
  • Member

  • 1,769 posts
  • Joined: September 00

Posted 29 January 2003 - 03:42

Former Hot Rod World Champion and aspiring rally driver, 30-year-old Davy Evans and his younger brother Kenneth were killed while testing a Nissan Rally car in the Moira area on December 21, 1984.

Source: Motoring News January 3, 1985.

#769 Indy500

Indy500
  • Member

  • 44 posts
  • Joined: September 00

Posted 01 February 2003 - 14:25

Hello guys,

After a long period off (due to the birth of my son) I'm picking the list back up. Since the last time I updated it there are more than 250 new post arrived at this thread. So the update will take some time.

Also I shall have to create a new database because the old one is gone, when my computer crashed. So give me some time to get it running again. The website will come next first the list should be running again.

I have a moral (if not ethic) question for all of you : When I was surfing the web to confirm so entries on the list, I've stumbled on footage and pictures of some of fatalaties on the list. Shoud I or shouldn't I make entries for this in the list or database, and should they be shown on a website.
I ask this because some of them are quite shocking and I could imagine some people would be offended by them. But they exist nontheless. What should I do with them : include them in the list & database or not ? Put it on the website or not ?

I started this list not for the sake of being morbid or sadistic, but to celebrate these people and to try and not forget them. Therefore I'm not sure what do to with this material.

To me, if they exist, they should be used, to point out what happend, what has been done after it happend (if something has been done) and to point out that racing is a very hazardous job. But there will be a chance that some people think this is done purely for the sensation.

What are you reactions to this ?

#770 Milan Fistonic

Milan Fistonic
  • Member

  • 1,769 posts
  • Joined: September 00

Posted 01 February 2003 - 19:45

Originally posted by maxie
how about the fatalities in macau GP? one of them is the philippine driver in 1967, but i can't remember his name.


David McKinney provided the name as Arsenio 'Dodgie' Laurel.

The date of the accident was November 19, 1967 and he crashed his Lotus 41 at Yacht Club Bend on the third lap

#771 Milan Fistonic

Milan Fistonic
  • Member

  • 1,769 posts
  • Joined: September 00

Posted 01 February 2003 - 19:55

Doug mentioned George Crossman being killed at Brands Hatch.

The accident occurred on Boxing Day (December 26) 1967 but the date of his death was some days later.

Motoring News, dated Thursday January 6, 1967, states he died "late last week."

#772 Bladrian

Bladrian
  • Member

  • 1,491 posts
  • Joined: July 02

Posted 01 February 2003 - 20:30

Originally posted by Indy500

I started this list not for the sake of being morbid or sadistic, but to celebrate these people and to try and not forget them. Therefore I'm not sure what do to with this material.

To me, if they exist, they should be used, to point out what happend, what has been done after it happend (if something has been done) and to point out that racing is a very hazardous job. But there will be a chance that some people think this is done purely for the sensation.

What are you reactions to this ?


Then don't be morbid. Leave the pictures (and the footage) out.

#773 jarama

jarama
  • Member

  • 1,129 posts
  • Joined: September 00

Posted 02 February 2003 - 01:24

According to a brief note on "Sport-Auto", January 1972 issue: Philippe Chéronnet (presumably french), died in a crash during the Rallye Jeanne d'Arc.

Sorrily, no more details, no date (presumably November/December 1971), nothing more.

Carles.

#774 fines

fines
  • Member

  • 9,647 posts
  • Joined: September 00

Posted 02 February 2003 - 03:47

Originally posted by Indy500
I have a moral (if not ethic) question for all of you : When I was surfing the web to confirm so entries on the list, I've stumbled on footage and pictures of some of fatalaties on the list. Shoud I or shouldn't I make entries for this in the list or database, and should they be shown on a website.
I ask this because some of them are quite shocking and I could imagine some people would be offended by them. But they exist nontheless. What should I do with them : include them in the list & database or not ? Put it on the website or not ?

I started this list not for the sake of being morbid or sadistic, but to celebrate these people and to try and not forget them. Therefore I'm not sure what do to with this material.

To me, if they exist, they should be used, to point out what happend, what has been done after it happend (if something has been done) and to point out that racing is a very hazardous job. But there will be a chance that some people think this is done purely for the sensation.

What are you reactions to this ?

I am of the (small?) band of those who would like to see all available evidence, but I'd suggest you put a warning next to the links. You can't ward off bloodhounds by ignoring them, anyway.


__________________
Michael Ferner

Mr. Bush and cohorts have done a lot of damage to the relationship with their European friends and allies, and it will take them a lot of effort to patch that up.
Yet they haven't even stopped damaging - Does it really take that long to wake up???

#775 jarama

jarama
  • Member

  • 1,129 posts
  • Joined: September 00

Posted 02 February 2003 - 13:44

Another name not found through the "Search BB" facility:

Frank Ruata, pressumably french, road accident - short note in "Sport-Auto" February '72 issue.

Carles.

#776 Seppi_0_917PA

Seppi_0_917PA
  • Member

  • 248 posts
  • Joined: December 02

Posted 02 February 2003 - 15:47

Originally posted by Indy500
I have a moral (if not ethic) question for all of you : When I was surfing the web to confirm so entries on the list, I've stumbled on footage and pictures of some of fatalaties on the list. Shoud I or shouldn't I make entries for this in the list or database, and should they be shown on a website.
I ask this because some of them are quite shocking and I could imagine some people would be offended by them. But they exist nontheless. What should I do with them : include them in the list & database or not ? Put it on the website or not ?

I started this list not for the sake of being morbid or sadistic, but to celebrate these people and to try and not forget them. Therefore I'm not sure what do to with this material.

To me, if they exist, they should be used, to point out what happend, what has been done after it happend (if something has been done) and to point out that racing is a very hazardous job. But there will be a chance that some people think this is done purely for the sensation.

What are you reactions to this ?


Mr Indy 500, you might find this discussion ("Italian GP 1961") helpful starting with post number 22:

http://www.atlasf1.c...&threadid=51290

#777 Brian Lear

Brian Lear
  • Member

  • 122 posts
  • Joined: June 01

Posted 06 February 2003 - 13:06

Two more not mentioned previously in this thread.....

"Giosue Guippone, at one time a celebrated motor cyclist, and latterly a driver of
the Lion - Peugeot racing voiturettes, was killed when practicing for the race for the
Coupe des Voiturettes. He was travelling downhill at quite 80 miles per hour, and
met two cyclists riding one behind the other. They divided in front of Guippones'
oncoming car, and it was avoiding running into them that prevented him from saving
himself, even by running off the road on to the grass. He had one wheel in a rut at the
time and to get out of it had to surmount a drain pipe topped by a large flag-stone.
He somersaulted several times, and died some fifteen minutes after being picked up."
Source: "Australian Motorist" magazine dated November 1910

"Radice Fossati, well known Italian amateur driver, was killed on the Monza track
while making an attempt on the 1100cc 12 hour record with a Maserati. Travelling
at 100 m.p.h. he struck a dog and overturned"
Source : "The Referee" (an Aussie weekly sporting newspaper) dated 19/11/36


Brian Lear

#778 Geza Sury

Geza Sury
  • Member

  • 942 posts
  • Joined: March 01

Posted 06 February 2003 - 14:01

Originally posted by dmj
I will check my old magazines for exact date of Csaba's death. "My" date was stated by one Hungarian TNF member in this thread: http://www.atlasf1.c...highlight=csaba F2 reference was from my memory, obviously not working so good. But I believe Geza Sury should know this for sure.

Sorry Dino, I've just discovered your post. First of all the driver's name is Kesjár Csaba. The name is in the 'Hungarian order', so his family name is Kesjár, given name Csaba. I can confirm, he was killed on 14th July, 1988. After a long-long investigation, it was revealed, that the cause of the accident was actually a brake failure. I wrote about Csaba in a Reader's Comment's thread, but I copy it here:

Csaba Kesjár was the country's first hope for F1. He started his carrier in karts, and became a multiple national champion. BTW, he was a member of a Hungarian racing dynasty, already his grandfather had been a racing driver! After karting, Csaba graduated to the so called 'Formula Eastern' class, which was a category for formula cars made up by East European car parts. Csaba drove four years there, scoring one win. Why was he so unsuccesful? Well, because cheating was virtually allowed for the soviet teams. Kesjar's only victory came after a disqualification, when he launched a protest against the result of a Bulgarian race. As it turned out, the winning soviet driver used a 1400cc engine instead a 1300cc, which the rules had stipulated!

When the first Hungarian GP took place in 1986, Csaba graduated to Formula Ford. He won the Austrian Championship. One year later Horst Schübel signed him to race in German F3. He was blown away by team-mate Bernd Schneider, who walked away with the championship. Kesjar's best result was fourth place, but he won a non-championship F3 race at the end of the year. He was destined for better things, but he was tragically killed in 1988. Believe it or not, today an elementary school bears Kesjar's name in Hungary!

Excuse me for getting a bit carried away, but I admired that guy so much. He was one of my childhood heroes. I saw him racing in a hillclimb, and got his autograph.

Some more info: Kesjár drove three laps in a Zakspeed Turbo a couple of hours after the 1987 Hungarian GP was flagged. His best time was 1 min 52 sec which it was slower than he managed in his F3 car. (1 min 47) Kesjar was instructed not to change above third gear (and I think eventually the highest gear he had used was fourth). He studied at the Bánki Donát technical college in Budapest, so he had some technical knowledge. Still, he was much slower in F3 than his team-mates. Despite this he was one of my childhood heroes and his death shocked me since I was only 14 at that time. He was extremely popular in Hungary at that time, because he was a very charming guy.

#779 Milan Fistonic

Milan Fistonic
  • Member

  • 1,769 posts
  • Joined: September 00

Posted 08 February 2003 - 07:30

From the Motoring News report of the 1966 Singapore Grand Prix.

...and veteran Johore driver F. A. Johns had overturned his Jaguar E-type with, unfortunately, fatal results.

The race was held on Easter Monday on the Thompson Road Circuit.

Advertisement

#780 Simpson RX1

Simpson RX1
  • Member

  • 300 posts
  • Joined: October 02

Posted 08 February 2003 - 13:55

Here's one for the research guys.

A friend had an entry for the National 2CV championship climax at Brands Hatch in 1991 (support races for the British Truck Super Prix).

He couldn't compete, so offered the drive to me, and I gratefully accepted. My wife was about seven months pregnant at the time, and was a little concerned about the danger. I convinced her that there was nothing to worry about, so it was doubly shocking to hear of the death of a 2CV driver a few weeks before 'my' race.

I believe the incident took place at Lydden Hill (probably around September), when the driver's seat collapsed on impact, in what I'm told was a fairly innocuous crash.

My memory may be blurred by time, but I think they're the details.

#781 Milan Fistonic

Milan Fistonic
  • Member

  • 1,769 posts
  • Joined: September 00

Posted 08 February 2003 - 23:03

Originally posted by Simpson RX1
Here's one for the research guys.

A friend had an entry for the National 2CV championship climax at Brands Hatch in 1991 (support races for the British Truck Super Prix).

He couldn't compete, so offered the drive to me, and I gratefully accepted. My wife was about seven months pregnant at the time, and was a little concerned about the danger. I convinced her that there was nothing to worry about, so it was doubly shocking to hear of the death of a 2CV driver a few weeks before 'my' race.

I believe the incident took place at Lydden Hill (probably around September), when the driver's seat collapsed on impact, in what I'm told was a fairly innocuous crash.

My memory may be blurred by time, but I think they're the details.




The driver who died after an accident in the 2CV race at Lydden was Ian Gammon-Hardaway (32).

The race took place on May 26, 1991.

#782 Simpson RX1

Simpson RX1
  • Member

  • 300 posts
  • Joined: October 02

Posted 09 February 2003 - 00:36

Thanks Milan.

I obviously kept that a secret for longer than I thought.

#783 jarama

jarama
  • Member

  • 1,129 posts
  • Joined: September 00

Posted 09 February 2003 - 01:40

Another fatality not found through the "Search BB" facility:

John Gott, british, 58 y.o., killed at the Lydden Hill circuit driving his Austin-Healey 3000
("Sport-Auto", November 1972 issue).

Carles.

#784 jarama

jarama
  • Member

  • 1,129 posts
  • Joined: September 00

Posted 09 February 2003 - 02:07

October 1962, :(


1000 Km de Paris, Paul Armagnac (F), crash during practice.

Coupes du Salon, Henri Oreiller (F), crash.


No more details found, :confused:

Carles.

#785 Tim Murray

Tim Murray
  • Moderator

  • 24,591 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 09 February 2003 - 02:27

Originally posted by jarama
John Gott, british, 58 y.o., killed at the Lydden Hill circuit driving his Austin-Healey 3000
("Sport-Auto", November 1972 issue).

Good old John Gott - a remarkable man. I found the following on Peterborough Motor Club's website - it was originally published in the MG Car Club's magazine Safety Fast - no author is credited:

From the time he managed to do a few laps of Brooklands posing as a riding mechanic in 1930, John Gott devoted his whole life to the world of motor sport from the top ranks of international rallying to being a regular competitor at MG Car Club meetings.

His first event was the RAC Rally of 1933 and he went on to compete in hillclimbs, rallies and trials mainly with an MGTA. In 1947 he acquired an HRG for international rallying and became a prominent member of the successful works team finishing every Alpine Rally from 1948 to 1951. Marcus Chambers, BMC’s first Competitions Manager, was also an HRG man and when BMC were on the look out for more experienced drivers, John was a wise choice.

By this time John’s career within the police force saw him appointed Chief Constable of Northamptonshire and his authority and discipline within the BMC team was soon to prove invaluable. His immediate appointment as Team Captain was a natural title.

John may not have been the fastest driver in the team but he brought a wealth of experience of continental events and, above all, he was a master tactician. Many of the events of the day had some form of handicap formula, or cars in different groups were set different target times. John’s experience, familiarity with the European rally routes of the day, first hand experience of the opposition, knowledge of the key event organisers and his pre-event planning and team briefings were to pay off.

Initially the policy of the newly formed Competitions Department at Abingdon was directed from Longbridge and say as many of the BMC marques represented as possible. For example, the works entry for the 1956 Monte Carlo Rally included no fewer than 12 cars, Austin Westminsters, Austin A50s, Riley Pathfinders and MG Magnettes which made car preparation very complicated and effective servicing almost impossible. Under John’s influence the strategy changed to concentrating efforts on fully developing one or two marques and models and aiming for finishes with a team of cars rather than trying for individual class wins.

John was instrumental in bringing more professional co-drivers into the team, more serious and disciplined route recces were introduced and his pre-start team briefings were legendary. His de-briefings were even more important which his detailed post-event written reports ran into many thousands of words (and all are preserved at Beaulieu).

In particular John brought first hand knowledge of Alpine and Liege routes, events in which he specialised and which were to be two of the major rallying battle grounds for the team. On these events he instigated a system of grading the route into colour coded sections depending on their difficulty and he worked out relevant target times based on previous experience and the organiser’s latest bogey times. This was a basic early form of pace notes allowing the crews to pre-plan their driving stints where previously the less experienced crews had little idea of how to pace their efforts. With his military training in Bomber Command during the war and his police discipline, John was good at knowing just how hard he could push himself and he would never fail to hand over the wheel to his co-driver when conditions were right. A safe finish and a team result was always more important than a personal award.

He had a photographic memory for rally routes which often caused his co-drivers to panic when, for example, they would arrive at a T junction in a village and the co-driver would call ‘right’, John would swear it was ‘left’ because that was the way the rally route went on a previous event through the same location!

He was a reliable finisher rather than a pace setter. He was good at nursing a sick car and meticulous in keeping his car damage free and had been known to seek the services of a local panel beater to repair a bent wing rather than bring a damaged car to the finish. He always ensured that all of the team members washed their cars before taking their place in the finishing ramp. Attendance of the whole team smartly turned out at the prize giving (win or lose) was compulsory.

John drove the works MGA 1500 on the 1956 Alpine and Liege rallies, did the Liege in the following year again with an MGA 1500 and took a Twin Cam on the Liege in 1958. The Twin Cam was again entered for the Monte and the Tulip rallies in 1959. When the big Healey took over from the Twin Cam as the mainstay of the works long-distance rally attack, John was a regular and successful member of the works big Healey team from 1959 to 1961.

Former members of the BMC rally team tell many amusing stories about John. As Team Captain he always sat at the head of the table when the team dined out and he made a point of always asking for the bill at the end of the meal, doing a quick mental calculation to divide the total amongst everyone and requesting their money. More than one team member was convinced that John’s calculations always ensured that he got a free meal (and of course he kept the bill for his expenses!).

John always carried his police identity papers with him on events and the production of these and his polite but forceful manner often worked wonders at border controls where petty officials were being awkward.

He was good at telling stories against himself. There was an occasion when he had been giving a talk to a motor club in Bristol and during the evening had consumed a fair amount of also. On the way home to Northampton driving his faithful ZB Magnette he was stopped by a local bobby for excessive speed. John was in plain clothes and obviously the Chief Constable was not recognised. However, his brief case with its prominent police emblem was spotted by the then highly embarrassed bobby. Quickly explaining his lack of attention to the speed limit, John said that he must have been looking at the rev counter instead of the speedo. ‘Bloody daft excuse’ admitted John afterwards. ‘Just as well the young bobby was thick because the ZB does not have a rev counter!’.

John had one of the first Mini-Coopers and was wildly enthusiastic over its performance and drove it accordingly. One day he was returning to his Northampton office in plain clothes when he came across a couple of young lads hitch-hiking by the side of the road. He stopped, offered them a lift
but told them firmly to sit in the back, sit still and don’t talk. After a very brisk drive through the countryside, John dropped the boys off at their destination asking them what they thought of the new Mini-Cooper. ‘It’s a great car’, said one of the boys, ‘And for an old man, you drive it pretty well!’.

He was a regular competitor in the International Police Rally which was run around Europe and contested by top police teams from many countries. There were some unkind remarks made that he probably only won because he borrowed works-prepared Healeys or Mini-Coopers while other police drivers had to make to with their regular and more pedestrian police vehicles!

After he left the BMC team John continued his motor-sporting interest by racing MGAs and his beloved ex-works big Healey in club events and he was a regular winner at MG Car Club races and speed events for many years. Those who competed with him will always remember how he devoted so much of his time helping younger and less experienced competitors to improve their game. Many an intrepid young novice was told to walk the course with John before practice or in the lunch hour to receive sound advice on the optimum cornering lines.

An amusing incident occurred at a Le Mans start at one of the MGCC High Speed Trials at the annual Silverstone meeting when John, who was not too sharp off the mark, arrived at his car to find that a young driver was already about to jump into his car instead of his own identical car parked next in line. John’s bellowed fury to the poor chap to get out of the way (which was basically a four letter word followed by ‘off’) was heard in the grandstand.

Just as John always used to write to the organisers of international rallies when he was Team Captain thanking them for the event and usually offering some wise words of advice on how to improve things, he always did the same when he was club racing. Organisers waited with some anxiety to receive John’s letter a few days after the event but he was always fair, offering congratulations when they were due and always friendly with constructive comments.

Similarly, just as John used to write very detailed international rally reports and end of season reviews for Safety Fast! (the MG Car Club magazine), when he was club racing his end of term reviews and analysis of the leading MG and Austin-Healey drivers was always a major feature.

John was later to become a regular and senior Steward of the RAC where his police interrogation tactics, knowledge of the sport and in particular his respect for organisers and marshals, put the fear of God into many an errant driver! John, however, earned tremendous respect from most drivers for he continued to compete when he was not Stewarding and more than one driver who had dared question his authority at a Steward’s enquiry later found John giving him a very hard time on the track!

By the 1970s, having retired from the police force, John became a senior International Steward of the RAC, a regular senior official of events at home and overseas and a much respected member of the RAC Competitions Committee. Tragically he was to lose his life in 1972 when he suffered a heart attack while racing his faithful big Healey at a club race at Lydden Hill. The sport had lost a true enthusiast and a great ambassador.



#786 sat

sat
  • Member

  • 347 posts
  • Joined: October 00

Posted 09 February 2003 - 07:29

On Saturday 12 September 1970 17:30 hours died M. Hruby after practice accident for Stramberk F3 race (Czechoslovakia). In race itself 1 spectacor was killed in another crash (driver Ondrejik). The end for this dangerous road track.

#787 jarama

jarama
  • Member

  • 1,129 posts
  • Joined: September 00

Posted 09 February 2003 - 22:23

"Sport-Auto", December 1972 issue:

Three more fatalities not found through the "Search BB" facility:

- Claude Larrieu, pressumably french -according to the brief note he was a regular hillclimber on the french SouthWest area- died as result of the burns sustained in a crash during the Montbazillac hill-climb.

- Arnaud Marques -first name sounds as french, family name seems portuguese- died while taking part as navigator on the TAP Rally.

- Brian Ferreira, at the wheel of a Mini during the Kyalami 9 Hour Race, hitted by another car.

Carles.

#788 Indy500

Indy500
  • Member

  • 44 posts
  • Joined: September 00

Posted 18 February 2003 - 15:43

Ok I'am finally through all the post and data I gathered, and the excel list is ready (like it ever will be that is !!).

The count now stands at 1406 fatalities.... (I never thought we would get about 500)

Now the quest is changing a bit.... I will still be updating the list with new found fatalities.

I will now putt all the data in a access dbase for ease of use, but now I would like to ask you guys to help me with checking the dates, names & stuff. That means if any of you guys have newsarticles, books, pictures, movies,... anything that confirms entries in the list, and if its possible I would like to get a scan, copie or whatever to put in the database as source and or evidence.

For those whou would like a peek in to the list, drop me a mail and i will send you a copy (it will be for the time being a list only, because with pictures and stuff the megabyte count is up !!)

I aware that there are lots of errors of mistypings or whatever in the list, so don't shoot me, but help me rectify them.

Greetings,

#789 Mike Argetsinger

Mike Argetsinger
  • Member

  • 948 posts
  • Joined: April 00

Posted 24 February 2003 - 01:20

July 4, 1958 - Harold Hurtley was fatally injured in practice for the SCCA National Championship race at Lime Rock Park in Connecticut when his Triumph TR-3 overturned on the front straight, his seat belt broke and he was thrown out of the car. Hurtley was leading the E-production points chase in national racing at the time of his death. This was the first fatality at Lime Rock Park which had opened the previous year.

#790 D-Type

D-Type
  • Member

  • 9,699 posts
  • Joined: February 03

Posted 01 March 2003 - 15:57

During the 1957 Safari Rally, Somakraj and Charlie Safi were drowned when their Simca Aronde went into the Ruvu River in Tanzania. The date was either April 19th or 20th.
My source is Charles Disney's "Shell History of the East African Safari Rally. Unfortunately he does not give Somakraj's full name.

#791 jarama

jarama
  • Member

  • 1,129 posts
  • Joined: September 00

Posted 01 March 2003 - 16:35

Another fatality not found through the "Search BB" facility:

- Bob Criss, american, rookie (according to "Sport-Auto"), crashed when testing a F-Indy in Phoenix in a private session and died in the team's transporter when translated to the hospital.

"Sport-Auto", May '73.

#792 theunions

theunions
  • Member

  • 638 posts
  • Joined: October 02

Posted 01 March 2003 - 18:05

Originally posted by jarama
Another fatality not found through the "Search BB" facility:

- Bob Criss, american rookie (according to "Sport-Auto"): crashed when testing a F-Indy in Phoenix in a private session and died in the team's transporter when translated to the hospital.

"Sport-Auto", May '73.


Does anyone know more about the "Page Racing" team Criss was driving for?

#793 jarama

jarama
  • Member

  • 1,129 posts
  • Joined: September 00

Posted 01 March 2003 - 19:39

Three more fatalities, listed in the June '73 issue of "Sport-Auto":

- Art Pollard, american, crash during one of the qualifying sessions for the Indy 500 race, then in May, driving an Eagle.

- Chris Tuerlinckx, belgian, road accident the day after the Spa 1000 km race - then May 6th.

- Joe Huber, swiss born - singaporean resident, crash at the wheel of a Mini during a race at the Singapur circuit.

Carles.

#794 Cirrus

Cirrus
  • Member

  • 1,753 posts
  • Joined: February 03

Posted 02 March 2003 - 17:09

Sorry I can't be more specific, but if my memory serves me, Class B Formula 3 driver Dick Parsons was killed in the mid eighties at a race at Silverstone. Any more detail anyone?

#795 jarama

jarama
  • Member

  • 1,129 posts
  • Joined: September 00

Posted 02 March 2003 - 18:06

Just found in "Sport-Auto" September '74 issue:

- John Thorne, pressumably british, driving a Merlin F-Ford @ Snetterton.

Carles.

#796 Criceto

Criceto
  • Member

  • 201 posts
  • Joined: August 00

Posted 02 March 2003 - 21:27

Jon Thorne's accident was on July 14th 1974. Motoring News from the 18th reported that it happened at the Esses during a combined Formula Ford and Monoposto race. The report mentioned that the cause of the accident was not apparent, but cited marshals at the scene who described hearing gears being looked for, before the car braked later than usual. It hit the Esses banking sideways, and Thorne did not survive the initial impact.

#797 sat

sat
  • Member

  • 347 posts
  • Joined: October 00

Posted 02 March 2003 - 21:35

From an article about 1949 fatalities (source Automobil Revue -CH?)

27.2.1949 GP Mar del Plata - Adriano Malusardi (fire)
24.4.1949 Mille Miglia - Hinguett (GB) Healey - accident near Brescia
? St. Helier road race - practice K.W. Bear (GB) Bugatti 3.3
? GP Roma for small cars - Alberto Ludovici
24H Le Mans - P. Maréchal (F)
18.9.1949 GP Belo Horizonte - Octavio Rocha and A.F. da Silva
20.9.1949 Daily Express Trophy - St. John Horsfall (GB)
Brno - practice Václav Uher (CS) race Jaroslav Jonák (CS)
? hillclimb Salerno Cava - practice Salvatore Giglio race Italo Bizio

#798 theunions

theunions
  • Member

  • 638 posts
  • Joined: October 02

Posted 06 March 2003 - 05:28

Originally posted by Felix Muelas


Let´s see

a) According to Milan´s sources there was an accident on the second day and both father and daugther died. Two casualties to add to the two of the previous day.

b) My original source was my dear friend Jose Luis Otero, that led him to conclude a slightly different consecuence on the accident of the second day : the daughter died and the father survived.

c) Finally Joe Sclazo (quoted by theunions) goes on to say that there was an accident where the driver died and the co-driver (assumed to be the daughter) survived.


I'm now 2/3rds through reading Bobby Unser's new motivational book Winners are Driven, in which he discusses the incident in further detail:

On the second day, we were in 17th and coming up to pass the car of millionaire Carlos Panini and his daughter, Terresita. She was the registered driver. However, Carlos was behind the wheel and in ill health. He shouldn't have been driving. He didn't even have a driver's license. The rules were that the slower car was to allow the faster car to pass if the faster car honked its horn. We were in the mountains, and I came up to Carlos and honked, but he wouldn't let me pass. This went on through about 10 turns, with Carlos blocking me each time. We were probably doing about 90 miles per hour at this point. The next time I tried to pass him, he bumped my right front fender, which almost pushed me off a sheer cliff to the left that was some 500 to 800 feet down. My left front tire went over the edge, but fortunately I regained control of the car. Carlos overcorrected his car to the right and went straight into a solid rock wall. The car exploded on impact like an egg hitting a sidewalk. I didn't know it at the time, but Carlos was killed instantly.

One of the rules of the race was if you stopped to help anyone, you were automatically disqualified. The race organizers had ex-United States Air Force AT-6 planes observing the race, as well as emergency crews available. Seeing the explosive impact, I wanted to stop to help, but my daddy told me to keep going. He knew the rules and told me that people were there to help. That was hard for me - I slowed down to about 15 or 20 miles per hour. He insisted I keep going and grimly, I did...

...When we got to Mexico City, I saw the evening papers that already had the headlines about the Panini incident. I learned a new Mexican word: muerte (dead)...

...The Mexican press accused me of being a murderer. Daddy and I repaired our car and took the long drive home from Albuquerque from Mexico City. After we were home a few weeks, I was still feeling bad about the accident and the false accusations. I wasn't a murderer. Then the Mexican government sent me a letter in which they said aerial photos of the accident scene proved my innocence. The letter was both an apology and an invitation to the following year's race.



#799 Doug Nye

Doug Nye
  • Member

  • 11,524 posts
  • Joined: February 02

Posted 16 March 2003 - 22:39

Another obscure jigsaw piece has just come to light...

"Nice-Matin newspaper, Wednesday 13th June 1962

Mr Ange Baldoni has died from injuries suffered during the Monaco Grand Prix

There were two victims during this year’s Monaco Grand Prix: the English driver, Taylor, died during the juniors’ race on 2nd June; and Mr Ange Baldoni, born in Monaco on 14th November 1909, residing 33 boulevard de la République in Beausoleil, who was seriously injured at the start of the Grand Prix.

Five cars crashed in the Gazomètre bend a few seconds after departure. Richie Ginther’s car lost a rear wheel that flew off and struck the head of Mr Baldoni—the Automobile Club’s commissaire-contrôleur. He was very seriously injured and taken to the Princess Grace Polyclinic. After being given first aid in the Monegasque hospital, the unfortunate victim of this accident was then taken to the Saint Roch hospital in Nice.

In spite of emergency treatment and a delicate operation, M Baldoni died yesterday morning due to his appalling injuries.

Mr Baldoni was assistant-manager at the Monaco Bus Company depot. He was popular, loyal and obliging. His loss will be felt greatly at the Automobile Club where he had been a member for many years, at the Monaco Bus Company where his professional conscientiousness was much appreciated, and in the circle of his many friends in Monaco and Beausoleil.

His funeral will take place today at 16h30 at Saint Joseph’s Church in Beausoleil."

They also serve who also stand and marshal...

DCN

Advertisement

#800 Milan Fistonic

Milan Fistonic
  • Member

  • 1,769 posts
  • Joined: September 00

Posted 25 March 2003 - 03:00

Michael J. C. Keen died when his Bristol-engined Cooper Bob-tail crashed during the 1955 Goodwood Nine Hours Race run on August 20. He was aged 26. The accident happened at Fordwater when the car ran wide, cartwheeled along the verge and burned out.

Source: Autosport August 26, 1955 & D. Nye's Cooper Cars.