147 replies to this topic

[Thomas lundevall]

Hallo,

I am the owner of Porsche 911, 1967, B 34880 an old Swedish rally car. Driver was Björn Waldegård and Lars Helmer. I have also the winner from the Gulf Rally 1968, 911L, B 4300, the driver was Åke Andersson.
Both cars was ordered from the fabric like rally cars. B 4300 was one of 28 cars with the motor type 901/30 and this car had engine number 3880005. You can see more Swedish Porsche 911 rally cars on this link http://www.ddk-onlin...2/viewtopic.php?

[Thomas lundevall]

Of course I mean BB 4300. Try link

http://www.ddk-onlin...pic.php?t=14768

[RS2000]

Excellent link Thomas.
So few people in UK rallying today recall the Scania Vabis 911s - or the Gulf Rally for that matter.

Waldegard at the finish of the 66 Gulf in his "poor man's 911" :

[P 4 Staff]

Originally posted by jarama



Elford's car was S-YS 848 (a works unit) seen also in the '67 Monte (Klass/Wütherich, 42nd).


Carles.

Can´t help...but I react on the name Wütherich...was that "Rolf Wütherich"?...travelling with James Dean on his fatal crash 1955.

Staffan.

[Fred Gallagher]

I believe so - and finished second in the '65 Monte with Bohringer in a 904.

Fred

[jarama]

Originally posted by P 4 Staff


Can´t help...but I react on the name Wütherich...was that "Rolf Wütherich"?...travelling with James Dean on his fatal crash 1955.

Staffan.

Certainly, was the same man.


Carles.

[flat-16]

Originally posted by BDM977B


Another film of the era I have in my collection, but doesn't seem to be that common is Lancia's 'Road Time', commentary by a rather formal JDFD. Lots of Alpines, '73 Monte Carlo.

This video sounds very interesting - I've never heard of it before. Can you give us any more information regarding the catalogue number or where one might find a copy? Has it ever been released?

Thanks,

Justin

[Thomas lundevall]

Advertise for Ford Cortina/Lotus in Sweden 1967, Ove Andersson winner in the Gulf London Rally 1967,
do you think it is the right car on the foto?

[RS2000]

Photo is the Bianchi/Greder 67 Safari GT.
Ove Andersson 67 Gulf winner was UVW924E, a "one-off" coloured works car in "Ford Saluki Bronze". Soderstrom had used it to come 3rd on the 67 Acropolis. The registration number was then re-used on a new white car (with blue stripe) for Soderstrom/Palm on the cancelled 67 RAC. That later car was then used by Soderstrom on the 68 Swedish, then as a recce car for the 68 London-Sydney marathon. Many works Cortina Mk2 body shells survived only one rally.

I suppose when you are trying to advertise the "Gulf London" Rally that actually started and finished in Manchester, you are entitled to some leeway...

[275 GTB-4]

Originally posted by Thomas lundevall
Hallo,

I am the owner of Porsche 911, 1967, B 34880 an old Swedish rally car. Driver was Björn Waldegård and Lars Helmer. I have also the winner from the Gulf Rally 1968, 911L, B 4300, the driver was Åke Andersson.
Both cars was ordered from the fabric like rally cars. B 4300 was one of 28 cars with the motor type 901/30 and this car had engine number 3880005. You can see more Swedish Porsche 911 rally cars on this link http://www.ddk-onlin...2/viewtopic.php?

Wilcommen Thomas...look after those historic cars...fabulous

[Nick Wa]

1964 ? Coupe des Alpes, all the Ford advertising pictures showed the wrong car. The one they expect to win the group retired or went sick in the closing kilometers and the second placed car won. They had no photos of car two to use for the press deadlines so car one's rego and rally no were "photoshoped" and the drivers' features blurred.

Just a guess but is KKR 454 a Safari shot? Note the external spotlight, probably Kenyan rego.

[Thomas lundevall]

Advertise for Gulf Premium No-Nox petrol, and the Swedes was in 1,2,3,4, place in Gulf Rally 1967. Is the Ford the right car in the rally?

Yes I shell look after my 911 rally cars.

[RS2000]

Yes that last advert is the right car (see reg no in my post above - which also confirmed that KKR454 was Bianchi/Greder in a GT on the 67 Safari).
The shell is believed to have been scrapped after the 67 Gulf. The Mk2 Cortina shells were very weak and sometimes only managed one rally - Clark creased his at the bottom of the A pillars on the Scottish just before the Gulf and that one had to be scrapped immediately! The reg no was on a brand new car for Soderstrom for the (cancelled) 67 RAC - see photos on the rally photos thread - although according to Graham Robson, two of the other 67 Gulf Cortinas were the same cars entered in Group5 for Roger Clark and Graham Hill on the 67 RAC .
Bit of a cheek advertising that 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th used Gulf petrol! Every single entry would have used Gulf petrol at some point - because it was free on the rally to competitors! You have never seen so many rally cars carrying empty spare fuel cans when they arived at Gulf refuelling points - which were then filled and passed to service crews to use in their vehicles !

[Thomas lundevall]

Her is Bengt Söderström in KAK-Rally in Sweden 1968 driving UVW924E. And 3 other Ford from UK.

[RS2000]

Thank you Thomas. Is there any indication as to which crews were in the other Cortinas on the 68 KAK? Presumably one was Ove Andersson. The front one of the 3 seems to be the Soderstrom car and the other may have been Clark?. WVX306F in particular seems to be another car not in the "standard" Ford works colours of that time.
Regarding the other 67 Gulf Rally Lotus Cortinas, it appears the Clark and Soderstrom cars ran in Gp5 with TJ injection and perspex instead of side glass but retained the bumpers (later, on the cancelled 67 RAC, the bumpers were removed on all the Gp5 cars). The 67 Gulf winning car and its later re-incarnation was a Gp2 car (but may also have used TJ injection if it fitted the standard inlet manifold?). These experiments by Ford with fuel injection of any sort in rallying seem to have ceased with the arrival of the Escort TC and only made a late retun on a few Briant Hart BDGs at the very end of the "works Escort" period?

[BDM977B]

Originally posted by flat-16


This video sounds very interesting - I've never heard of it before. Can you give us any more information regarding the catalogue number or where one might find a copy? Has it ever been released?

Thanks,

Justin

It's very good, the most atmospheric rally film I have (after 'From Harrogate'!). Lots of in car night stuff from the Fulvias, and a lovely shot at one point following an Alpine down into Monaco with the dawn just breaking after the last night loop. I got it about 15 years ago, it's a vhs tape with 2 videos, 'Road Time' and 'A Time of Change' which was an Avon sponsored film about the 1977/8 Mintex, Scottish and RAC rallies. Red cover, made by Quadrant Video of Sutton Surrey. No sign of a catalogue number. Seems to have been here, but a deleted video since 1995:

http://www.sendit.co...m/7000000010804

Edit: It was made, I see by Brunswick films, who have a website here with lots of old GP stuff as well as some later rally items. Can't see Road Time there, but they were definitely the producers, cameraman was John Tully...
https://www.brunswickfilms.com/

Edit 2: I've just had this reply to an enquiry I made to Brunswick ref the film:
Michael
We are trying to get our rally films together they were all shot on film and we will have it more together soon!

John Tully

[RS2000]

I hesitate to ask but does anyone have the entry list for the next UK International forest rally after the 1967 Gulf - the (cancelled little more than 12 hours before the start) 1967 RAC Rally?

[sterling49]

That picture of Bengt on opposite lock is superb Thomas! Thanks for posting, my father had a car like this in 1968, great memories!

[RS2000]

By a strange co-incidence, I only discovered to day that the Gulf connection arose because Clerk of the Course David Siegle-Morris had bought a Gulf petrol station when he retired from works driving (not that either was his main income, that was from being an architect in the Greater London Council!)

[Milan Fistonic]

Originally posted by RS2000
I hesitate to ask but does anyone have the entry list for the next UK International forest rally after the 1967 Gulf - the (cancelled little more than 12 hours before the start) 1967 RAC Rally?

Here's the first half of the entry.

[Milan Fistonic]

...and the second half.

[sterling49]

Did they have seeding then? No disrespect but Bob Freeborough is number 1? Is that Denny Hulme at number 12 in the Triumph 2000 entered by the Sun???

Great to see this list, thanks!!

[Thomas lundevall]

The price for the winner in KAK-Rally 1968 was one Ford Cortina Lotus rally car and evryting free for start in the Gulf Rally (transport to Uk, petrol, hotell etc). Bengt Söderström and Gunnar Palm stay with the car but Waldegård was the winner for the Ford.

[flat-16]

Originally posted by BDM977B


It's very good, the most atmospheric rally film I have (after 'From Harrogate'!). Lots of in car night stuff from the Fulvias, and a lovely shot at one point following an Alpine down into Monaco with the dawn just breaking after the last night loop. I got it about 15 years ago, it's a vhs tape with 2 videos, 'Road Time' and 'A Time of Change' which was an Avon sponsored film about the 1977/8 Mintex, Scottish and RAC rallies. Red cover, made by Quadrant Video of Sutton Surrey. No sign of a catalogue number. Seems to have been here, but a deleted video since 1995:

http://www.sendit.co...m/7000000010804

Edit: It was made, I see by Brunswick films, who have a website here with lots of old GP stuff as well as some later rally items. Can't see Road Time there, but they were definitely the producers, cameraman was John Tully...
https://www.brunswickfilms.com/

Edit 2: I've just had this reply to an enquiry I made to Brunswick ref the film:
Michael
We are trying to get our rally films together they were all shot on film and we will have it more together soon!

John Tully

It's very decent of you to have made an enquiry, Michael - many thanks!

I will keep an eye on this excellent thread and see if you get any news back from Brunswick; failing that, I'll keep an eye out at the automobilia sales for a copy.

Cheers!
Justin

[BDM977B]

Originally posted by flat-16


It's very decent of you to have made an enquiry, Michael - many thanks!

I will keep an eye on this excellent thread and see if you get any news back from Brunswick; failing that, I'll keep an eye out at the automobilia sales for a copy.

Cheers!
Justin

No probs! I hope they are encouraged to put this stuff out. My impression is they have all the raw footage as well as the edited results of their films.
I watched the film last night, there's a lovely bit at a service halt where Cesare Fiorio is attempting to organise Harry Kallstrom and persuade him to change tyres. But Kallstrom clearly just wants to get on with it! Lovely night time Italian chaos, you can almost smell the fuel and hot brakes.

[RS2000]

Originally posted by sterling49
Did they have seeding then? No disrespect but Bob Freeborough is number 1? Is that Denny Hulme at number 12 in the Triumph 2000 entered by the Sun???

Firstly, many, many thanks for the list Milan.

For 66 and 67, the main "Sun" sponsorship years (although actually it was the Daily Herald that had agreed to sponsor the 66 RAC and then got taken over/transformed into the Sun) the first dozen or so were "publicity" entries. For 68, by when I believe the Sun was reluctantly fulfilling the final year of its contract) they had the "European Cup Rally" for Gp5/6 cars runing ahead of the proper RAC. 67 was the only year there was a dispensation to run Gp5/6 cars in the main RAC Rally. Pauli Toivonen (father of Henri) at 15 is the first real "seed" (was he 67 European Rally Champion? - then the nearest thing to World Champion).

Usually one crew member in the "publicity seeds" was a journalist. Presumably Denny Hulme in his world championship year was paid by the Sun to enter - and may otherwise have been as reluctant as Graham Hill - the latter effectively in Ford's pay in 67 and not being given an option? The Hulme (and Fidler) cars are described as Triumph 2000s but were lightweight 2.5Pi prototypes.
Interestingly, the Scania Vabis Porsches are entered in the names of the drivers in the Gp1/2 category (so ran as 911Ls). The Elford car is also "privately" entered in the driver's name in Gp3/4 (so a 911S?) - and was white not red or orange:

[Thomas lundevall]

Gulf Rally 1968.

Gulf Rally 1968.

[Thomas lundevall]

Bengt Söderström/Gunnar Palm KAK Rally (Sweden) 1968

Bengt Söderström/Gunnar Palm in Lotus Cortina Jämt Rally 1966 (Sweden)

[Thomas lundevall]

http://i178.photobucket.com/album
s/w263/tomlargo/029.jpg
Lars Helmer stading with his car number B 34880 and Sven-Olof Svedberg with B 70046.



Waldegård/Helmer start number 4 and Åke Andersson/Svedberg number 1.


Vic Elford start number 3.


Erik Carlsson/David Stone start number 5.



Waldegård car.


Lars Helmer 2008 with the same car 41 years later.



All photos and start number plate from Lars Helmer private collection.

[sterling49]

Absolutely fantastic photos Thomas! The years just melt away, with pictures of Eric Carlsson, Bjorne and Vic Elford, when so much younger. The cars, so nice then, unspoilt with all of the commercialism of today, the service "barges" 122 Amazon Estates Not a motorhome or AWNING in sight, those really were the days! Just the 41 years ago

[RS2000]

Originally posted by Thomas lundevall
Vic Elford start number 3.
[/B]

Vic Elford seems less than impressed by the reaction of Ford's co-ordinator Bill Barnet (and mechanic Norman Masters??) on seeing VE's new car for his first event in the UK forests since leaving Ford.....

Magnificent photos Thomas.

[Thomas lundevall]

Her is more photos from Dec 1967.

[RS2000]

Excellent and rare colour photos Thomas. They would perhaps be suited to the "Personal rally photos" thread, as only one is the Gulf (the group with Eric Carlsson and Bjorn Waldegard - and Lars Helmer?).

Most of them are the cancelled 1967 RAC. I must have been standing next to the photographer for the Bengt Soderstrom/Gunnar Palm photos, as I have near identical ones (but small and black and white from a schoolboy camera!).

The white 911 is the car Vic Elford would have driven (why white? - I've always wondered). The Timo Makinen photo with the open bonnet is the fuel injected Gp6 CooperS GRX311D (re-shelled I believe) and of course the Healey is the "last big Healey" - Peter Browning's car that Rauno Aaltonen was to have driven (Makinen apparently having declined it).

I would guess all except the Soderstrom photos were taken much later on the Saturday morning (the shadows prove it was not Friday afternoon, when the cars were first parked). Earlier on Saturday all the cars were coated in frost and the Soderstrom Cortina was specially cleaned off for the photos. (Unfortunate positioning though, with rival Paddy Hopkirk's accessory firm's van behind!)

[sterling49]

Superb photos Thomas, absolutely brilliant! Thank you! I am scratching my head here, and I really should know, but the "Shell" billboard, was that not at Brands, located at the top of Paddock? Looking at the results shown, it was post BOAC 500. It's bugging me now, where was this billboard?

[bradbury west]

RS2000, was that the first time that the works Healeys ran with Minilites?
Roger Lund

[sterling49]

Originally posted by bradbury west
RS2000, was that the first time that the works Healeys ran with Minilites?
Roger Lund

That is the 1st photo that I have seen of a Healey on Minilites (my favourite wheel) however, I always liked to see Healeys, "B"s and Spridgets, E-Types and Elites on wires, Elans, now they were a different matter!

The 911 alloys are nice too, Elford's red racer wore these in the BSCC races of the day but Bengt's Cortina Minilites, just a great combination of car and wheel ;)

[RS2000]

It's the only time a works Healey was ever entered in a rally on Minilites (and of course it never started that one).
The previous works big Healey appearance had been the 65 RAC. On 1.1.66. the new Appendix J rendered the Healey uncompetitive in Gp3 - it lost its alloy bodywork, alloy head and triple Webers - and Abingdon dropped it for rallying.
The 67 RAC, unusually, had classes for Gp5 and 6 cars. Normally only the Coupe des Alpes among the top rallies ran "prototypes". I think the FIA then clamped down - certainly the 68 RAC was not allowed Gp5 and 6 within the main event and had to run a separate event (the Coupe des Alpes continued to do so... but then that WAS a French event...).
No Healeys remained at Abingdon and the works car that Peter Browning (by then the new BMC Competitions Manager) had bought (ARX92B? re-registered as PWB57) was loaned back and built into the "ultimate" rally big Healey, including alloy block for the first time. (He did OK out of that, gaining a full house rebuild of his car, that was then never rallied again).
The side exhaust cut into the bodywork was also only ever fitted to 2 works cars that started a rally (the 65 RAC cars + another for testing and then PWB57 for the 67 RAC)....but seems to have subsequently made its way on to most "historic" rally Healeys...

The Fuchs wheels on the 911 are said to be stronger than Minilites - the only example of any wheel I know of where that is claimed to be the case.

[Thomas lundevall]

Fine that some more like old motor sports photos, her more.










Erik Carlsson SAAB Rally driver.



Lars Helmer and Åke "Bryggan" Andersson.





All photos is from Lars Helmer private collection.

[Carles Bosch]

Originally posted by Thomas lundevall
Fine that some more like old motor sports photos, her more.










Erik Carlsson SAAB Rally driver.



Lars Helmer and Åke "Bryggan" Andersson.





All photos is from Lars Helmer private collection.

Superb pictures!!!

Love the Paddy Hopkirk vs. Les Leston accessoires vans...

The last picture shows us Anders Gullberg & Lars Helmér (Opel Rekord Sprint) 'en route' to 8th o/a in the '66 RAC...

Brilliant stuff.


Carles.

[sterling49]

Originally posted by Thomas lundevall
Fine that some more like old motor sports photos, her more.

Fantastic photos Thomas! If my rusty memory is working, the 1st picture is the Mini Cooper of Rob/Ron Mason? and the Bevan Imp of Ray Calcutt?

The 2nd shot is East Anglian Racing Cars Ford Anglia driven by Alan Peer on pole and the Alan Fraser Imp of Brands specialist Tony Lanfranchi and the Anglia of Pat Mannion in the middle. Mini 127 could be Peter Lague or Colin Youle, there was a time I would have got them all correct.......

The Firestone Scoreboard was a favourite parking spot for our family Cortina GT, great days!
Thomas, these Brands photos would be very well received, if you could post them in the "photos from Club Racing thread" as some racing enthusiasts might not look at a rally based thread.

Just great photos, such evocative memories of great times....I can hear "Alone Again Or" by Love as I type......superb!

On looking at the photos again, is car 118 the famed Jim Moore Kincraft?

[RS2000]

Originally posted by sterling49

Thomas, these Brands photos would be very well received, if you could post them in the "photos from Club Racing thread" as some racing enthusiasts might not look at a rally based thread.
On looking at the photos again, is car 118 the famed Jim Moore Kincraft?

Yes. Many club racing experts will not look here. I was also wondering about the V8 single seater.
The photos are dated Dec 67 with a couple Jan 68 (a second roll of film?). Presumably the people featuring in the Brands photos are Swedish - or were the photos taken by someone in the UK and forwarded to Lars Helmer (who appears in one of them?). The blonde lady with the pony tail kept the same red trousers from Heathrow for Brands Hatch (but resorted to a heavier coat!). Can we then assume the Brands race meeting was on the Sunday after the cancelled RAC Saturday start? (All such rally people would have been at Lydden for the rallycross the next weekend if still in UK, not at a Brands race meeting?).

[Peter Darley]

Originally posted by Thomas lundevall
[


Her is more photos from Dec 1967. [/B]

The guy in the red anorak is John Glover, Competitions Manager of Champion Spark Plugs

Peter Darley

Jim Clark - Life at Team Lotus

[RS2000]

Originally posted by Peter Darley

The guy in the red anorak is John Glover, Competitions Manager of Champion Spark Plugs
Peter Darley

Then based at Hatton Cross, the other side of Heathrow from there? I knew I vaguely recognised him but didn't make the connection.

[Peter Darley]

Originally posted by RS2000


Then based at Hatton Cross, the other side of Heathrow from there? I knew I vaguely recognised him but didn't make the connection.

BINGO !

[Andrew Kitson]

Superb pics! I reckon the blue/yellow Mini on pole is the DJ Bond car of Brands specialist Terry Harmer.
The Bevan Imp on the outside Bill McGovern. White Mini in the middle possibly the Cripspeed car of Ken Costello. Agree on all of Sterl's ID's in the second shot, although could be Calcutt not TL in Fraser Imp, Peter Lague nearest camera I think. I reckon that is the Kincraft in it's short lived white livery, usually red.

[bradbury west]

Sterling, I assume Alan Peer and Pat Mannion would have been 1650cc powered by then - 1498 with max overbore as was usual- if we are talking 1967 etc. I don't recall them with T/Cs, but memory fades.
Roger Lund.

[Andrew Kitson]

Pat did have a 1760 t/c in both '68 & 69 in his Anglia before getting his Escort.

[bradbury west]

Thanks , Andrew
RL

[sterling49]

Bloody Kitson! The man has not got a memory...he has an AMD chip Your right with Terry Harmer and Calcutt and soo obviousy Ken Costello Anyone remember Peter Lague doing the Lydenn Rallycross series? Or that Ken made some fast V-8 "B"s? Roger Taylor (dad was a big wig at FoMoCo) was the other half of EARC Team and usually had a big engined Anglia, cannot remember if it was a pushrod or twink, though it made the front cover shot of Autosport in a wet race once.....my reminisces, my kids will put me in a home soon

I wonder what else Thomas has in his box of tricks???

Edit: If Mannion's Anglia was a twink, the Peer car on pole is probably Roger Taylor in the large engined Anglia....Andy, please verify!!!!

[sterling49]

Originally posted by Thomas lundevall
Her is Bengt Söderström in KAK-Rally in Sweden 1968 driving UVW924E. And 3 other Ford from UK.

Fabulous shot of Bengt on the ice, on opposite lock Just the way a rally car should be driven....and that is not via 4 WHEEL DRIVE