Was he punished for his Fuji antics under SC rules?
It'd be too much if he went unpunished this time.

I think the impact is less - 95% of the time blue flashing lights are shown in conjunction with green lights.

Get rid of the blue flashing lights in SC situations, increase the size of the red lights if necessary and make some of them flash too.

And gave Kubica a race win.

You know, at the end of the day, the primary cause of the cockup must have more to do with whoever decided to open one end of the pits and keep the other shut. What a load of bull. Lewis could be excused for assuming it was open. I know I would have. OK, he should have been paying attention ,and what he did was pretty dumb, but it is also understandable. Afterall, he wasn´t the only one who fell into the trap.

Picture taken with my personnal camera, from my seat under the Prestige Tent. I saw the whole thing happen but I was not prepared...

i highly doubt it was luck that he hit kimi and not Robert. i like lewis' driving usually but he is a cut-throat type of driver which i think people need to be to win like senna, schumi, etc. but in this case i dont think it was accidental plowing kimi instead of robert or neither.

It's funny on the 5 live podcast Hamilton wont even admit to having made a mistake.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/podcasts/cff1/

That's because you don't have a clue as to what the rules are. Lewis is supposed to. As a matter of fact it was Lewis who warned all of the drivers to be aware of THIS EXACT SITUATION.

I heard that too. It's really hard to like this guy. He is so full of himself. Like he won't believe he made a mistake.

How does narrowing the criteria help?

He doesn't have to say a word. It was all there for the world to see. You can't ask a kid to be a man.

I find in life it's certainly worth comparing apples with apples. Comparing them with oranges is only leads to invalid conclusions.

New box in Montreal
http://www.mschumacher.extra.hu/hamilton.danger.html

Oh, I see, he's being accused of not having enough brain power to see a red light, but when he does, even though its too late and a crash is inevitable, he is then able to decide to hit Kimi, instead of Kubica. Do you realise what you are claiming, that he made this decsion once his wheels were locked...

maybe the team told him the pitlane was closed too late, kinda like in race driver grid, where 90% of radio traffic is too late/useless...

Though that's exactly why race drivers are equipped with eyes. Should their radio fail, they could still rely on their very own eyes.

Well, I mean those at least who are not yet on the level of Senna and as cool as Raikkonen.

The discussion I responded too started with this;

"No the worst thing you can do as a driver is deliberately drive into someone. Although I have a feeling a few suspect he chose who to hit I don't think Lewis was doing that."

And then this:

"Can't be that bad, since I remember a driver doing that and not receiving any punishment whatsoever."

To which I replied:

"There have been a few, in fact."

And then you step in. So how exactly does narrowing the criteria down to Montreal and red lights help?

That's twice I've done that to you now, so I apologise again for my mistake. I read the post above yours and attribute your reply as being to it and not to the quoted post. An incorrect inference which changes the context of your reply.

In that sense, I retract my criticism and apologise for it

NP. It's a busy thread!

That is true, but that's not a good enough excuse for me to make when I am so pedantic about others' words (or indeed actions) in busy circumstances... :-) I can only apply the same logic to myself as I do to Lewis

Felipe Massa only destroyed his own race there, didn't he? Did he crash into other car(s)?

There, now your apology makes more sense in the context of this thread

I heard there was quite a confrontation after the incident between Felipe and Massa.

Its good that kimi is levelheaded and not this kind of moron ;) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SXbGDcMeo8

Hamilton would have been looking at the sky from the flat of his back

25 pages? WOAH!

edit:





Christ on a bike!

What I saw - Lewis makes a dumb error, likely distracted until it was too late to stop.

What I wonder - did he have enough time to consider which car to hit?
He may have been swerving left to find the gap next to Kimi, but he clearly removed the car that would be to his greatest benefit.
If this was the case, it is hardly the first time it's happened in F1.

The accident in the pitlane took away from a far more serious problem that the FIA needs to address. Lewis Hamilton had a 7 + second lead ruined by the deployment of the safety car. Lewis and McLaren gambled on using the soft Bridgestones and then replacing them with the harder tyres at the first pitstop. The deployment of the safety car for Sutil's exit was questionable. The car was off the track and there was a local yellow. The exact location is not even a place one would think to overtake. The car could have been removed during the first round of pitstops, but the FIA seems to want to intrude on good team strategies.

Where I have a problem is in the pit lane, if the pits are open then why can one not leave them?

Lewis heads Kubica, Kimi, Nicoand Alonso into them. Kubica leads out onto pit road with Kimi alongside and with Lewis beating Nico for third spot. Now here is where it gets interesting. Kimi refuses to take his normal position behind Kubica and stays alongside. Lewis is behind watching the ahead and watching behind for Nico. Yes the red light is on. Kubica stops but Kimi sticks his nose ahead meanwhile Lewis is caught out and tries to avoid the stopped cars. he misses Kubica but hits Kim and then the concertina effect is now in play.
Had both Lewis and Nico stopped who would have been allowed out of the pits first. I have Kubica ahead according to the video. I am sorry but I lay blame with the FIA first and Kimi second. Cars must be in single file in the pit lane exit, so I do not know what Kimi was trying to do. I am not going to dsay that had he been behind kubica that the incident would have been avoided, but it is clear that Lewis did try yo avoid an incident. Why are the pits open on one end and closed on another? We had one lap behind the SC and then the pits open. An open pit is and should be open on both ends. This is inexusable. It seems that every year Canada has a problem. Now we have to place a championship contender in midfield at the next race. Why do we not have fines for the other parties involved?

It is easy for Kimi to say he could have won the race, but last I looked Lewis and Kubica had an advantage on him. In the end the hand was never played out. So coulda woulda shoulda.

Lewis said it was his fault so now let us make sure this is not repeated.

The pit exit is closed whenever the line of cars trundling along behind the SC is in that vicinity, otherwise you'd have people storming out of the pits in an effort to make up 5 or 6 places and then trying to muscle in on another 2 for good measure when feeding back into the "snake".

The closure of the pit exit ensures that there is none of that and anyone leaving the pits simply has to line up at the back of the queue.

1) A car at the back of the field say in 20th could just saunter through the pit lane and pass every other car, ending up in 1st or
2) One of the leading cars could just as easily go through the pits, pass the safety car and effectively put every single car a lap down, either Raikonnen or Kubica could easily have "beaten" the safety car and put the entire field a lap down.


So the basic rule is, yes they can enter the pits for service but cannot leave the pits until the line of cars which they were a part of pass. This is only a probelm at a couple of tracks where it is faster to go through the pits, stop and get serviced, then it is to stay on the track.

The you didn't look at the last several laps before the yellow. Once the graining was gone off of Kimi's tyres he was flying.

question about the penalties:

in france, can lewis and nico pick their fuel strategy if they are moved 10 places back out of the top ten? or do they choose a fuel strategy in Q3 and must race with that?

I think normal rules apply if they get into Q3. They have to fuel the car and its whatever is left at the end of the session - they can't add to it after the session and they are moved into P11 or P15 or something.

thanks

Thew only person Kimi was making time on was Kubica. He was still almost 10 seconds behind Lewis. Look at your timing and scoring sheet.

Now why would anyone choose to drive through the pits when you have a perfectly good race circuit to drive on. It has always been the faster then the pit lane. You cannot pass the SC unless waved by, even if you are in the pitlane.

If you open the pitlane you open it at both ends. This fuzzy application of rules and penalties is not in keeping with the professionalism of any sport.

Imagine playing cards in Vegas only too have the house apply new rules as they see fit.

These was room on the left, hence he pulled to the left. Come on

Problem with your statement is that it is a flat out lie. Going through the pits in Montreal is much faster than staying on the circuit behind the safety car. IF the red light had not had been on, Kimi and Kubica both would have easily come out ahead of the safety car. If going through the piuts was slower than teh red light would have been as the cars on the track would have long passed.

Trust me its not rocket science.

it doesn't matter whether Kimi was 10 or 30 seconds behind, if he was going faster than Lewis he was, by definition, making time.

From lap 1 to 11, Lewis was faster every lap than Kimi. However, interestingly, from lap 12 to the pitstop Kimi was faster every lap - granted only by 2 to 5 10ths, but faster nonetheless. With Lewis' poor pitstop and the fact that he was no longer in the lead and able to set the pace, that could have been critical. Check your timing sheets.

Rocket science

I must be in the company of a batch of engineers. I would like to see how a car can pass the SC and get away with it.

Look at the video of the cars pitting and the SC is well past. I appreciate your explanation, but if you run the math you will see that race circuit is faster then taking the pit lane, get a job as a race engineer and you will see, or just watch the race again.



"it doesn't matter whether Kimi was 10 or 30 seconds behind, if he was going faster than Lewis he was, by definition, making time.

From lap 1 to 11, Lewis was faster every lap than Kimi. However, interestingly, from lap 12 to the pitstop Kimi was faster every lap - granted only by 2 to 5 10ths, but faster nonetheless. With Lewis' poor pitstop and the fact that he was no longer in the lead and able to set the pace, that could have been critical. Check your timing sheets."

So you are saying that based on 2 laps Kimi was definetely catching Lewis. I find it hard to believe that Kimi set the fastest lap of the race on the lap just before the saety car was sent out. How you can set a fastest lap with a yellow at a corner. The rule here is quite clear. Jacques Villeneuve can attest to that.

"Yellow flag
Indicates danger, such as a stranded car, ahead. A single waved yellow flag warns drivers to slow down, while two waved yellow flags at the same post means that drivers must slow down and be prepared to stop if necessary. Overtaking is prohibited"

Good grief.

Well, mr. rocket scientist, Kimi's fastest lap was lap 14.
Sutil got stranded alongside the track on lap 14 (the safety car came on the track several laps later BTW).
See http://f1.autosport.com/2008/laptimes7.php
On lap 14 Kimi was quite a margin ahead of Sutil, so he has never seen those yellow flags on that lap, he could have seen them for the first time on lap 15

Bruce, Schievlak; i'd just give up with the arguing to be honest, none of them will see any common sense. It's been done to death now and anybody who still doesn't get it isn't worth wasting time on.

- Edmund Blackadder.

Rosberg didn't ignore the red light though, did he?

It happens almost every time a SC is deployed. near the end of the SC time, lapped cars are INSTRUCTED to pass the SC. They always get away with it.

In terms of points I think the best is to go for a 1 stop strategy - they have nothing to lose and much to win. And I think that's what they will do, the opposite woulnd't make any sense. Lewis can make big points and keep close to the leaders. I still think he has advantage over the other for the championship.

I sincerly wonder what the drivers following Alonso out of the pits made of this 'pit exit' light sequence.


The above is a direct 'capture' (at 2:13/2:42) from this YouTube video...
http://youtube.com/watch?v=6LJqIyBzIdE
The car at the very end of the 'train' behind the SC is visible at the exit of turn one (to the right of the light stand), so IMO the 3 blue lights should ALSO still be on.
And, they should have STAYED ON, during this entire mix-up.

It lasted only one flash , I had to rewing to really see it. Not as if both stayed on fo a while...

Exactly the same happened when bluen turned into red, and both RK & KR got the message just right.

I agree that it only happened for just one flash, but how can the pit exit lights be set up to even allow such a thing to happen?
It should be EITHER green, OR red.... like a toggle switch, which allows either, but NEVER BOTH.
The blue lights can have their own 'separate' switch.

If you were a driver following Alonso, and glanced briefly at the lights (and caught the above), before concentrating on the mêlée of cars in front of you, what do you do?

It's only very briefly that the two are on together, don't think it makes much of a differance or confusion to be honest.

The please explain to me how KImi and Kubica were sitting at the pit exit while the SC and the line behind it were sinding through the turn 1. The pit exit comes out in turn 2 in Montreal. Explain to me how Massa pitted and came out ahead last year. Please explain NOW.

The safety car and the pit speed are the same, the SC and th etrain behind it must negotiate 2 chicanes while th epity is starigh through and a much shorter distance. There is simply no way you can have 2 cars going 80 kph and the one going the longer distance does it in the same amount of time.