don't argue like you don't understand what he did wrong in spa

Subjective, the two illustrate two different situations.

One where Hamilton cut a chicane, gained a place, gave it back, and then took advantage of slipstreaming.

In the case of massa, he missed the chicane, and tried to come back on track and hit Hamilton. He got a penalty.

And gained 2 points on Hamilton as a result. Hamilton on the other hand, lost 6 to Massa in Spa.

I don't think relative results of two drivers should influence the stewards decisions of rule breaking.

They were two different races, two different rules broken, the relative positions of the two championship contenders in the races make no difference (in other words, massa had very little to do with Spa).

Interesting.

When it is written (by his PR) he is a nice guy.
When is himself speaking (not through a PR filter) is the usual arrogant AH we all know.

Who is the real one? The one we all see or the one a PR wants us to see? You decide.

I don't think 'we all see' the same thing at all.

Its very simple,

If you are listening to Hamilton you can only listen to stuff he says in ITV interviews or from McLaren's PR department.

If its Alonso you can only read a british tabloid.

If its Kimi you only listen to word of mouth myths and legends that have circulated Kimi fan sites.



I only really trust what they say when a camera is present and I can read body language, tone of voice and facial expression to understand the full context of what they say. Unfortunatly for Hamilton he really dosent come accross as genuine in such a situation.

What are Mclaren playing at? Last week they weren't going to repeat the mistakes of last year, now both Dennis and Haug have come out and supported Hamilton's risky approach. I know they are just supporting their driver, but he hardly needs his ego inflated anymore. He has gone from needing 2nd/3rd's to win to probably needing to win 1 of the last 2 races.

So you admit that Hamilton, having missed a chicane, did not take out his opponent.

So we know what would happen in the alternative scenario.

The argument initially given that was argues against was on the premise that Massa did what Lewis would have done, that's a flawed argument, because a) you cannot know what he would have done, and b) the rules don't state 'do what Lewis would do' they say if you cause an avoidable collision you get a penalty

Except he didn't slipstream, he out-braked Kimi into La Source. Perhaps if he'd not cut the chicane he wouldn't have been close enough to out-brake Raikkonen, but who knows because Raikkonen was horribly slow at that point.

"Who knows" ought to be the salient point here. The stewards overruled Whiting and overturned a deserved win, based on a very strict (not to say novel) interpretation of the rules and personal opinion for want of facts. That's not clever umpiring.

I agree. But is "apparently" not ceding position properly and gaining one position out of it worthy of a punishment worse than hitting someone, damaging their car and costing them 13 places?

The two incidents are completely different, in Spa lewis got a run on Kimi and Kimi broke early, Lewis avoided him and took the opportunity to get alongside, on turning in Kimi did what he was allowed to do a squeezed Lewis toward the kerb, Lewis took the option of taking the escape route. In this case Lewis made the overtake and went to take the next corner, Massa saw a gap that did not exist and put his car half onto the grass to try and get it the rest is history.

I will not debate the merits of Spa, that being in the past and I don't want 60 pages on summut we already have 60 on, I will merely point out that the two are completely different issues.

Lewis Hamilton fans burn merchandise in bizzare protest

http://www.f1sa.com/index.php?option=com_c...7772&Itemid=219

that is bizarre, but very funny too

Would have been cheaper (and probably less toxic) to go to WH Smith and buy a few yorkies each getting the complimentary Lewis Hamilton 'my story' (ghost written, and before even the end of his first season) 'not autobiography' and burning that.

Burning books!!! Is Mosley involved ;)

Given Mosley's concept of what a 'party' entails probably best you don't invite him to your BBQ, book burning or no :-)

You say that but unlike 99% of the squares on this BB i think Mosley's parties look like fun ;-)

Maybe you didn't notice but Kubica was talking about Glock - Hamilton and Alonso - Hamilton incidents in Monza, not about himself.

BTW, Hamilton was better last year. This season he made a lot of rookie mistakes - Bahrain, Canada, Spa, France, Fuji. Don't forget this season he has weaker teammate. Of course Australia, Hockenheim, Istambul, Silverstone and Monaco were great Lewis performances but he's not so consistent like he was in 2007.

That was my point, why is he getting involved? It's not good for him to be talking about Hamilton's incidents with Alonso and Glock that are nothing to do with him.

I think it's part of the game, Kubica knows he has 4th car on the grid now, so no chance to fight in normal race conditions with Lewis and Massa, that's the reason Robert tries to put more pressure on his rivals. Look at Mclaren's and Hamilton's reactions on Kubica's words.

Seems like Kubica's mind games are working

Has Hamilton said anything? I haven't seen anything from him. There's been a lot of gloating around here about all the horrid things the drivers are going to say to him in Shanghai, but precious little evidence that's going to happen. Meanwhile Robert going on about how Hammy made his friend Fernando brake just makes him sound ridiculous.

Fun for himself certainly; I doubt that his prostitutes enjoy it that much.

I dunno! I bet a bunch of people on here would love to give max a whiping...

It seems that some former Hamilton admirers are starting to leave the bandwagon...

http://www.f1sa.com/index.php?option=com_c...7772&Itemid=219
"Though most expletives and comments by the group cannot openly be mentioned, the majority stated their latest opinion of the Formula One driver had drastically changed over the last few months, with words such as 'megalomaniac', 'crack pot' and 'over inflated ego' among the select few that can be repeated in public."

That sounds like a made-up story.

Yes. No location, no people, no quotes...

And a media stunt with no photo. Sure

Because Hammy is so great that no fan will abandon him?

Perhaps Lewis needs to employ a professional fan to support him?

Nah,thats for Alonso because everybody is out to get him and he doesnt know who to trust

to temper the mclaren fans outrage over alonso claim to help massa, perhaps they should be reminded by this thread and sing a lower tone

Ok so it’s either he's so incredibly bad at telling jokes that no one actually laughs at, or he's just that ignorant or just that arrogant. Take your pick guys

What is he complaining about? DC did not take him out, what more can he ask for?

Strange Lewis fans claim it's outrageous what Alonso said but Lewis asking for help is nothing wrong...

According to himself and his fans Gonads doesn't need any help, his balls are big enough

Well, Lewis knows, that DC is not exactly a fan of the little Brazilian. So i certainly can imagine him hoping DC would help him out. There's nothing naive in that. But obviously DC doesn't care about that stuff as long as he is in the car racing for points.

Because we can understand that what he said was very much tongue in cheek and he never expect DC to just get out of the way.

Or his own Fire Service.

Well whatever it is, Hamilton can't win............ off the track anyway..... and on it at the moment.

One must remember that the rule in these statements is "don't do as I do, do as I ask"

When does DC ever move over for other drivers, even when being lapped? Yet is one of the biggest whiners about lapped cars not jumping out his was way.

So did Alonso.

More than likely, which is why I'm not getting worked up about it.

Its good that there are still sensible people around here

There's still time to join us.

Bernie Explains Why F1 Drivers Dislike Hamilton

Lewis Hamilton is "good for business", but Bernie Ecclestone says he knows why the championship leader is not popular among his peers.

"He is good for business," the 77-year-old F1 chief executive told Auto Motor und Sport. "Out of the car he is a little bit arrogant.

"I think he has slightly too high an opinion of himself and that irritates the other drivers," Ecclestone added.

That's the problem. Lewis thinks he's the mutts nuts, but the other 19 just know that they are.