Yes indeed! If he fails to capture the WDC this season, while he is in the best car with a lappdog teammate and while the others are also floundering it will mean that the total collapse and embarrassing failure 07 will hang round Ham's neck going forward. If he can manage sink the gimme this time he will have gone some way to removing the choker tag from the opening line of his CV.



China: Lewis drove off the pitlane into the gravel beached the car = DNF = Driving error caused DNF

Brazil: Lewis piqued by Alonso's greatness runs off the road and drops down the field then panics in is hast to move up again resulting in Lewis's car suffering an unexplained problem "The system received the wrong input" says team boss Ron Dennis. Ham pressed the wrong button at the wrong time say the fans not blinkered by Danic...opps i mean Lewis Mania.

Lewis the pros and the cons

Pros:

Very quick over one lap.
Good pace over many laps.
Good in the wet!

The Cons:

Unlikeable personal character

Lacks proper raccraft in several key areas:

Tire management
Maintaining proper focus on the team goals at all times.
Prone to brain fade type errors.
Prone to easily suffering from the red mist even at the slightest provocation see Alonso's greatness referenced above.
Prone to overdriving while suffering the said red mist! (his downfall last year)

Lap dog teammate (some think this is a good thing)
Poor PR skills (fly Lewis)
Fake personalty (the only one he's got)

If Lewis can learn to manage his natural skills with a dramatic improvement in maturity and if he can sustain that level through good seasons as well as bad for many years then I think he could be a future great. It all hinges on this year, no WDC this year will kill Lewis's momentum big time.

I cant stand Hamilton with the helmet off, but the simple fact of the matter is he beat a 2 x WDC with 6 years more F1 exp...

In this (his second year) his on track performances have been exemplary, especially Silverstone and Germany where he had no equal...

Slate this is all so last year

But last year he totally delivered, it was the team who choked not Hammy.

This year, the Mac might be the best car now, possibly, but earlier in the season it wasn't, he's been making it look better than it is. Some overdriving, yes, but Kovy is not slow, he beat MS in the 2004 RoC don't forget.

I sort of know what you mean about the PR/fake personailty thing, but I think he's just been forced to modify his natural personality because he was being ripped off so much with misquotes (I was born to be champion/cooler than kimi etc), also although everyone watches F1 for the competition everyone somehow expects the drivers to be all cuddly and not overtly competitive. MS had the same problem and dealt with it by saying almost nothing, so which would you prefer? A mix of PR-speak and himself is better than the nothing-speak we get from most of the others.

There's only one Mark Webber, after all, and the rumour was his tell-it-like-it-is approach cost him a drive at McLaren...

Hamilton is very quick over one lap??? I don´t agree here.
IIRC fuel corrected Kovalainen was faster in 7 or 8 qualifyings out of 11 this year...
Sadly, except for Silverstone, the finn never got a chance for pole as he is always filled up with 2-4 laps more than Hamilton.

Yes now I look properly I see I made an assumption, just got so used to Support FA = Bash LH, sorry

It was and is team Hamilton after all, but they did not screw up Lewis did that for them, squandering all their collective efforts in the sands of China and the button of wheel.

You have to ask that one?
IMHO he should follow MS's example until mid next season, assuming he wins the WDC, if he fails (again) then I will expect more dummy spit pram crybaby hissy fit blame the team for everything but no blame for Lewis type talk.

Taking after Fernando?

I'm finding it hard to believe that Slategray has been on here for about 8 years and at the same time still manages to have the time in the day to make such poor quality posts. :\

You cant deny the fact he has great pace and race craft but he has a fundemental problem that we have seen on a number of occasions, he tries to make up lost ground to quickly and fights with drivers he doesnt need to fight with.

fighting with kimi at china last year when it was inevetable he was going to pass and it wasnt going to make sufficiant difference to the WDC.

fighting with alonso in brazil last year after he was passed by him.

attempting to gain lost ground in bahrain this year after a poor start, resulting in a loss of front wing.

trying to make up ground for his grid penelty in magny cours this yearto quickly, forgetting that theres 60-70 laps in a race.

i no nothing come of it but fighting with (was it trulli?? i think) in germany this year when he passed him as he came out of the pits when he really needed to chill out, get comfortable with the tires, see if trulli pitted (which he did) if he didn't pit, pass him down into the hairpin.

All down to inexperience and the fact that he's under a huge amount of pressure to win the title. Once he is champion, he'll be calmer and more calculating.

I think he's handling the pressure very well actually when I look back at Silverstone in the wet.

In China it was the team's responsibility to bring their rookie driver in for tyres before they wore down to the canvas.

And in Brazil the team did not recognise that they did not know the wear rate of the tyres in his first stint. So when they changed the strategy to a short 2nd stint on options it was a monumental cockup to discover only then that they were wearing too much to do the long 3rd stint. Even then, it would have been better to chance it and see if Lewis could do the last half of the race in one stint than to go for an extra stop that could never work. Even after the gearbox problem, that's what cost the wdc.

I'm surprised you say you'd like Hammy to shut up, surely that would leave a massive gap in your forum life?

I think the fact that Hamilton CAN drive and talk at the same time hurts Slate the most.

Just imagine someone sitting in the corner of an empty room in the fetal position with his hands over his ears repeatedly saying "shut up...shut up.... shut up!"

He's been in a front row car for 2 years (prior to which he did thousands ofmiles of testing in), hasnt been in an unreliable car and doesnt even now what a slow bum car means.

Yes they've been some great drives but he's ad great machinery under him.
Future great??? WTF have ya'll been smoking? Brazilian weed?
Let me see him win a race or come close to winning a race in car that resembles the '96 Ferrari - then i'll have no hesitation in callin him great

Right now he's purely option 2.

Sensible posts cost nothing.

He has to get out of McLaren into a crap car so a Ferrari fan won't consider him overrated. That's sensible?

Basing an opinion on current fact and speculating what situations would be needed to prove ability that has not yet been shown is sensible, yes.

It's plainly obvious that he's a top drawer driver and on pure pace I think he's the fastest out there currently, but not yet the best complete driver. Only time will tell if he will end up being a true 'great'.

True great, except in emotional circumstances (e.g G Villeneuve) tends to require at least 3 WDC's to qualify (I'm thinking MS, Senna, Prost, Stewart) and a lot can happen and a lot more kids can arrive on the block in the next decade to make that a whole lot harder for Lewis to achieve than it looks currently. In otherwords, I think he will, the way things are going, but you never know.

I also think that as quickly as Lewis grows up and stops saying silly things, more idiots will join the band-wagon criticising him for anything and everything.

This chorus of LH not driving problematic car is sickening. No driver, be it Senna or MS willingly goes for crappy equipment!

That Mclaren have consistently given LH a competitve car is not his fault. I well remember the 'Mclaren don't build competive cars 2 years in a row' comments that filled this BB at the beginning of the year.

LH will one day/ one season run into a less than optimal car. But currently he is the quickest man on the track, arguably the biggest star on the grid and a future great! If Silverstone 2008 & Germany 2008 did not convince the legion of unbeleivers, nothing will!

I beg to differ!

LH's ability to dance the rear of his car as if it is independent of the front, rivals anything the great MS could do. Of course the result for LH is excessive wear rates on his tires, but MS suffered from the same problem early in his career. The advent of driver-aids may have masked this during the later years of his career.

LH is in the 2nd season of his career; for Senna that transposes to 1985; for MS that transposes to 1992. Both of this greats had showed their marks by that time and so has LH. LH came in on his rookie year and fought the current best driver on the grid to a standstill and fought for the WDC. Could either of these two all-time greats have done the same??

Senna vs Prost circa 1985??

Senna vs MS circa 1992??

Doubtful. The speed would definitely be there but the consistency over a season I would expect the more seasoned great to win. In 1985, I thought Senna would be an all-time great. In 1992, I knew MS would be an all-time great. Both burst on the F1 scene. In 2007, I knew that LH would be an all-time great; the current season has only solidified the that opinion.

Matching a current two-time champion is no fluke. Currently LH has 8 wins and 10 poles from 28 races. No matter how you look at it, these are not only impressive figures but are of all-time great propotions. Like him or hate him, LH is already the quickest man in F1 and like AS & MS before him is a divisive figure. Opinions about him are as intense and as bitter as the recently retired MS. LH is the current great and a certain future all-time great.

No one is blaming Mclaren or Hamilton for having best cars, just dont try and force others to think he is as great as other drivers who have been there and done it all when Hamilton has not.

Hamilton is clearly a fantastic driver, but we shouldn't forget he hasn't even been in F1 for two seasons yet, there is still a very long way to go before we start talking about greatness.

About him having to prove himself, I remember last year when it was announced that he'd be paired with Alonso. I recall many comments along the lines that Alonso would destroy him etc, that he may lose confidence. Mclaren talked about 2007 being his learning year and I for one thought he'd be totally outclassed by Fernando, but this never happened.
I remember comments last year, particularly after it became clear Fernando would no longer remain at Mclaren, that Lewis would struggle giving feedback to the engineers, developing the car (as much as drivers can develope the cars) and setting it up. When Heikki was announced at Mclaren, many wondered how one of the youngest driver pairings on the grid could cope, with only thirty four? races behind them, in giving technical feedback and if necessary direction. Personally I believe that the part a driver plays in developement is overstated on this board, but nevertheless Heikki, Lewis, Pedro and Gary seem to be doing quite well at the moment.
Early last year some BB members refused to acknowledge him because he had 'yet to prove himself in the wet'. Some failed to regard him as a talented driver because 'he had only ever won from poleposition'.

I'm sure if Lewis was to have a season or two in a less than competitive car, challenge fiercely and even win some races, there would be some posters looking for other areas for him to have to prove himself, that is quite normal here.

Obi

Great driver. Fantastic for F1. Character that was refreshing at first but is getting increasingly annoying

Anyone watch the tennis? Federer and Nadal have proved that it's possible to have enthralling top class sport by the two best rivals whilst respecting each other and not behaving like children. Sets an example for the toddlers that inhabit F1.

That was a fantastic match brakedistance. I'm trying to get a copy of it actually.

Obi

I know... wish I'd recorded it! It was great to see how those two rivals were also friends, and spurred each other on to be the best they could.

The first test of greatness is defeat.

You learn so much from defeat then sometimes you do from winning and winning. Sometimes defeat makes you stronger, when your trouble, some people get stronger, when MS was in trouble-effect Brazil 2006, machinery/tyre issues, his best driving come to the fore, he did time and time again, in 98 against the Mclarens, 97 against the Williams, 96 against the williams, Spa 95 from the back

Hamilton just needs to give the sport it's moments, the do or die drives, he models himself on Senna, but tries to apply himself like Schumacher,
titles are important, but you either can wow the paddock and fans with great drives, and race to win or just be a fast driver when the car is fast, Hamilton needs those wins where some people have written him off, and he comes back putting up a fight like MS in 97/98

It's not always if you win or lose, but the type of fight you put up, show your competitors you won't give up. Michael did this better then anyone, don't hide behind excuses like Alonso, don't throw toys out your pram like Alonso and blame the team, but work hard with the team after defeats and stage a REPLY, just get the most out of the car and drive as if your life depended on it, and let fans judge your driving, like MS did.


Hamilton is a fast driver, but we need magic like Michael, Imola 2006-fantastic inlaps on shot tyres to outflank Alonso-Pat Symonds own words "Michael's inlaps were fantastic." Or China 2006, Michael's ulitmate extraction of the tyres which were not a match for michelin, in the wet, the best driver by far all weekend, clearly demonstrated, in a important championship race, 2nd to last race of his life in f1, driven with pride. Those are things Hamilton is a world away from, he's just a very very good driver, great racer, anything more, and I would of been impressed, rather then trying to force myself to say something awesome about it to please other fans of his, which wouldn't be a point, Schumacher's standards have spoiled me, when another Jim Clark/Schumacher comes, I'll put my hand up higher then anyone in the forum to acknowlege it, maybe it'll be Schumacher's son Mick in 20 years time.


Sure Hamiltion deserves some titles, but what is going to convince me his driving is better then the German who's watching his races on tv, Schumacher is still the best, his testing in winter 2007/09 on slicks was freakishly fast, he may not want to race anymore, but his shadow looms over future drivers, the man was too good and still is.


Hamilton's best thing so far was 2007, against Alonso, great stuff, too bad Alonso chickened off back to Renault, I think Alonso needed to stay and prove a point, but I guess that was expecting too much from Alonso.


Best driver in f1 right now;

Lewis Hamilton, future great though, dunno, don't think so, depends how f1 changes and how he adapts.

Best driver who should be doing better
Kimi


No driver beats MS
but Hamilton is new number 1, at least until Kimi understands qualifying again, Kimi should be higher, he needs to convince the world he's had issues but has corrected them, Hamilton is probabley the overall better bridgestone runner so far, without MS they all look a bit better, that was obivous.

Common SV, this getting riddiculus.

To say LH is a world away from MS at his best is simply not true. I for one am now unhappy that MS retired in 2006. KR was never a problem but perhaps the prospect of facing such an exciting young talent would have rekindled MS's batteries. The F1 was robbed of at least 2-3 years of a great match-up b/w the old lion and the young pretender. But of course nobody knew that LH would explode on the scene to become the fastest man in less than 2 seasons.

LH has already tasted defeat--2007, with 2 races to go, he was leading the WDC; images of being the the first rookie WDC, youngest etc flashed through his fingers. If that is not one of the most humbling defeats I don't know what is.

As for magical drives LH has already spoiled us in his brief career-- Silverstone 2008 ranks right up there with Spain 1996 and Donnington 1993. Germany 2008 is right up there with N'ring 1995 and China 2006. And please Hungary 1998 is not all that. Yes MS did some fantastic driving but Mika was humbled by his car and so we can never be sure. DC with all due respect to him was never a true test. I know you love thrumpeting MS-hell I am a great fan--but at times you take your praise-singing past the logical truth.


As for your hopes about KR; please give it a rest. He was never that good. I said it preseason 2007 and it has now been proven by subsequent events. FM-whom few gave a chance-has held his own. KR for all his coolness does not have the speed to put the plucky brazilian in his place. Much as a lot of his fans might hide under the 'equal No1 status' Ferrari are not paying him 8 times Massa's salary for a marginally better driver. I think it is time to look to the new breed to provide challenges to LH's domination.

No because Id like to see how he does in some McLaren down years like they had in years when they were not fast enough to win like 06 or 04

I'd love to be a fly on the wall at those meetings. I'm sure it has crossed their minds once or twice.

I am sure that Hamilton is just as talented (NOT AS GOOD, AS TALENTED, YOU TROLSS!) as Alonso and Schumacher (whom I rate in the same bracket). However, if he is a future great remains to be seen. Emerson Fittipaldi had the talent to be just as big as Clark and Stewart... but he ruined his own chances. Perhaps in six years time we will say the same thing about Alonso...

I think it would be very strange if Hamilton never wins a WC, (just as strange as Amon never won a official Grand Prix), but then again, it's not something I deem impossible...

I agree 100 % with your point about the team not calling him in soon enough.

However it does not change the FACT that Lewis Hamilton's responsibility was to drive the car, he failed, for some reason you are not able to accept this fact. Why is that?

It is way way too soon to compare Lewis with Schumacher / Senna / Prost, we can only know what we have seen so far. Hamilton is currently on pace to be the next Jacques Villeneuve, that is if he can manage not to drop the second WDC being handed to him on a silver platter.

IF he ever wins one championship we can compare him to Jacques if he gets two Mika, Alonso... (Alonso may have six or seven before Ham manages not to blow one) If Hamilton ever gets three or more then it is safe to mention him in the same breath as Senna / Prost and when he has seven WDC's it will be time to look back and ask who was better Schumacher or Hamilton.

At the moment Hamilton has zip, zero, nada, zilch-a-reno championships wise and a boat load of mistakes to boot, mixed with the odd flash of goodness. He could go on to greatness or he could go down the road to also-ran status. It all hinges on Lewis winning this seasons WDC if he cannot manage that task, what with all the advantages he currently enjoys, it will be safe to say he is no good and has no future in motor racing.

There's only 100% of blame to go round. So for me once 80% of it has gone to the team there's only 20% left for Hammy.




I agree. I haven't compared them. I think Lewis is great to watch, and is going to be "great".



Slate, I've told you a million times, don't exaggerate

For leaving him out to long I say 80% the team's fault and 20% Lewis's fault. Lewis has a two way radio and could have called the team for a stop sooner, so part of the blame for staying out to long rests on Lewis after all he should be able to tell when his tires are off. Then again he does have poor tire managment skills, perhaps he could not feel the difference or notice the huge loss of pace.

As for driving off the pit lane into the GT, well it is 100% Hamilton’s job to keep the car on track so it is 100% his fault for beaching the car. Just because his tires where not at their best is no reason to drop the car off the road, all he needed to do was go slower. It is two different errors one was the team & Lewis's combined error (staying out to long) and the error that followed (beached car) can only be 100% Hamilton’s fault. Can you understand that fact, or are the blinkers crazy glued on?

Gilles Villenueve had no championships. Neither did Sterling Moss. I would sooner have a field of 22 of those type of guys any driver who just watched the points to collect the crown. As has been said earlier, we've already been spoiled by Hamilton. Love him or hate him, he's made F1 alive and relevant again.

The only shame is that we couldn't judge him against MS as a yardstick. (But we can do that indirectly via Alonso).

I would like to know where people think that Lewis's drive at Silverstone was some what great.
In all honesty the guy won because Ferrari fell over themselves. I have no doubt had Kimi put new tyres on he would have blitzed ham. His pace prior to the pit stop was upwards of 7tenths 'or around that' faster then Lewis. Then we didn't get to see his true speed because Ferrari had to fill him to the brim to get him to the end.

Stupid-funny you can get away with, but not stupid-serious. And a bit unpleasant too...

:yawn:

I would agree with that.

Only time will tell what kind of a mark he'll leave on F1.

Well, to me it was obvious from the first weekend that lewis was something special. The speed is all there imo. His out-of-the-car (lack of) personality began to grate on me after a while; as did Ron's overzelous defending of his wunderkid. That shit-eating-grin and somewhat overconfident (some would say 'arogant') comments were a bit much. He's obviously concerned about his image & I think he's learning to temper his comments, which will help him in the long run. MS was accused of being 'arrogant' endlessly by the British press, although he seems downright humble in retrospect. I think Lewis just needs to grow up a bit, and he'll be better at all of it: fewer mistakes, smarter comments, and very likely a whole buncha race wins and a championship or two.

So to summarize: He's very good, though young and a tiny bit mistake prone (though people on this board make too much of that I think), and his comments piss people off. another season or two and I would bet he'll have all that under control.

Thats not how it works son. Senna is compared with MS, Clark, Fangio, Prost, Gilles and Stewart. They don't all have 7 championships. Its about far more than statistics.

very mature response!

That was because Lewis' tyres were worn, think China last year. And that was also during the driest part of the race.

We have no reason to believe that Kimi could've kept up with Lewis during the wettest part of the race - you're obviously forgetting that Lewis lapped both Heikki and Kimi aren't you during the final stint aren't you?

Someone, please, please do something about the gap in his front teeth! Cement is dirt-cheap nowadays for peace sake! That gap's gotta be costing him a few tenths somewhere.

I think that, even if he doesn't win this season's WDC, it will be safe to say he has a future in motor racing.

And "all the advantages"? Do name some.

Whether LH is great or not will always be debatable by fans. What is a fact is that Hamilton changed how we perceive F1 and all the drivers we rated highly. From the opening corner at Melbourne '07 he has thrown the sport on its head, and thats a good thing. Very few drivers have come in and changed the sport so much, so soon.

I am utterly sick of everything Lewis except his driving. Anyone who dislikes his driving isn't a true fan.

I was a Michael fan not so much Ferrari fan; i had my doubts too about MS being as good as Senna until MS took the challenge and drove some horrendous cars in Ferrari and still shone in them!

Guys like MS, Senna had to pay for their early drives. Lewis was never financially in the same situation.
MS won 2 championships in his 20s a lean speall and then still had the motivation to come back and win 5 titles in his 30s. So if Lewis is great in 2 years then Michael surely must be God?
Some perspective here people

OK well Michael was a fantastic driver. But it's far too soon to compare his record over 15 years to someone in his 2nd year. And it's not realistic to make it a condition of eventual greatness that Lewis has to drive a bad car at some point, just because MS, Senna & co did. He may never drive a really bad car, so it looks like you're setting out to make it impossible.

Have you missed the bit in the question about him being a future great?

And it's absolutely not true that Hamilton had money. From 8 to 14 Anthony worked his butt off. Only then did they get on the Mac programme. And he got on the programme because he was that good, won his cart championships, was at the awards, went over to say Hi to Ron when his dad said to, and then won the next 2-3 years so Ron was always aware of him and thought of him when the Young Driver programme was created. Hard work, drive, talent, and more hard work, as much as anyone.

All of those who are calling Hamilton on his "mistakes" are just hypocrites. Ever since Hamilton has joined F1, he's made as many mistakes as everyone (Alonso, Raikkonen, Massa, etc.). He's not any more mistake-prone than these guys, it is just that his mistakes rarely go under the radar as far as we and the media are concerned.

He is a damn good driver (he need to get rid of those ridiculous mistakes like Canada this year though) but the main thing in motor sports is being in right place at right time. If Mclaren fails to produce a race winning car say, for three or four years in a row starting from 09, he will be where Alonso is now and then he will be called another JV.

Of course there are people like Arrow, who are deluded that drivers build their own cars, but as seen by Alonso´s poor season so far, you can´t do much with a car that is not up to it. Let´s hope Mclaren stays competitive because Hamilton is awsome driver who should be fighting for wins, not for low points.

There are some people still unconvinced about Michael Schumacher, Charles Darwin, and the Flying Spaghetti Monster so it's hardly surprising that so many have adopted the SlateGray defence in this thread.

Ramming a stationary car which is waiting for lights to go green in pits is something you wouldn´t expect from an local go-kart driver, let alone from an professional F1 driver. Does it really comes as a surprise for you that people tend to critisize him for that?