I am taking this out of the Mosley collection, which seem to have settled into a morality and sexual philosophy debate.

Kar's favourite publication just came up with an interesting conspiracy theory that to my mind seems quite plausible. (Grandprix )

On August 2, Mosley uttered what might have been a throw-away remark during an interview about CVC and Bernie Ecclestone:

He then went on to have a dig at Bernie:

Inspired by the Mole, one can indeed ask oneself why Mosley would have made specific reference to a Sovereign Wealth Fund, rather than to a more catch-all term such as "new investors". A little thought, and we find that there is a Soverreign Wealth Fund called Dubai World which controls $100 billion of assets on behalf of the city state.

Its chairman's name is Ahmed bin Sulayem.

His brother's name is Mohamed bin Sulayem.


So one of Mosley's staunchest supporters, just happens to have a brother with a Sovereign Wealth Fund?

"new investors" can be anyone. Sovereign wealth fund to me means exactly what it says, a state backed purchaser that would have the money to compete with a CVC. Yes that happens to mean the Middleast and due to the social structure of that region it's no coincidence that people connected to large amounts of money also have significant political and sporting input.

In other words, no more a link than when Williams were sponsored by Bin Laden Construction.

And Mosley's too clever, as we've seen, to accidentally give too much away.

Grandprix "the mole" it's about as reliable as Massa's Hungary engine!

The Mole is not intended to be reliable, Mika Mika ;) (EDIT: Unlike Massa's engine )
But as conspiracy theories go, it's not a bad one.

And Ross, sovereign wealth funds do not only exist in the Middle East - Norway has one of the biggest ones, which I doubt it would compromise with such a dodgy investment as F1.

Maybe The Queen of England is gonna buy it! LOL

She's too broke, Mika Mika - she has to do her own house cleaning these days!

Seriously, if you were a betting man, might you not take a long-odds punt on Dubai World becoming the commercial rights holder?

It's more likely than anyone else, that's for sure.

For real conspiracy theories, try the fact that Fernando Alonso's team boss holds the TV rights to F1 in Spain and makes any profits...

Fernando Alonso has no Boss ;)

Fernando Alonso's team = Renault
Renault F1's boss = Flavio

Now that's just libelous.

Alonso's team boss either needs to make his car quicker or get Alonso into a Ferrari instead then before the fans start turning off.

Flavio has much more important things on his mind nowadays

Briatore in beach battle

Yes i agree, Max is too clever to give something like that away accidently; but i believe he gave it away intentionally to send a message to CVC and Bernie that he is in control.

Given the veto rights of the FIA president, Max's friends with bundles of cash, in addition to the control Max has in negotiatiing a new concorde agreement and GP2 structure; he has an awful lot of control over a sport he paid nothing for...

I can just see him screwing the current rights holder with a new concorde agreement which devalues F1 and then lines up his friends to buy F1, which he will fully endorse and allow to take place...I wonder how much money Max will make on the side from his associates???

Hey he can buy back his families love

With friends like that, no wonder Max thinks his arrive-and-drive-for-200K F2 championship makes any sense..

The good old 'follow the money' thing never fails to deliver..

Pensioner Mosley trying to suggest Bernie is too old to be considered a viable prospect in the future.

Regards

Andy

I don't know if it is reliable, but for sure it knows how to use the copy-paste buttons.

As long as 'the mole' sticks to one of the golden rules of journalism - "A paragraph is research, a page is plagiarism"

Eeeenteresting.

Weren't the Japanese literally buying up the world when they were flush with cash from their real estate boom?

I imagine that the Arabs too will be hoist by their own petards, if you will. But for now, they are the new young Turks on the block, so Dubai World may well own the rights to F1 for a while before the Next Big Thing.

By my calculations, the Arabs have multiplied their considerable oil reserve wealth by more than three times in the last couple of years. While the Japanese land boom bubble burst, since the Arabs can restrict supply, I doubt there will be a similar burst in oil prices, unless the world rapidly switches to another energy source.

Who knows how close Mosley is to the Arabs? I suspect whatever he owes them now - if they have to be paid - will have to be paid for by leadership decisions before he retires in 2009, so its certainly got to be a short term deal.

The line of defence that 'Mosley is too clever to make a mistake like that' holds no water since he's recently made a fairly major mistake.

Even if Mosley knows that some Arabs are considering buying F1, he has no influence or involvement and I am sure that CVC, the teams, manufacturers and Bernie all know this too.

Bit of a 'whatever' moment afaic.

You're entitled to your opinion. But to specifically make the statement of a "sovereign wealth fund" when it would have been easier to make the statement of a "new investor", or "buyer" is where you should be paying attention. Mentioning a "sovereign wealth fund" is a bit of a mouthful when one could simply state an "investor" to achieve the same result. A mistake from Max...unlikely; but either way it is a clear signal who the potential buyers will be.

It'll happen. Likely not rapidly, but it'll happen.

The Arabs are smart and getting smarter. They're obviously diversifying at a frightening pace, and will do so even more as the switch is taking place. But they'll never be able to retain the level of wealth they have and will have for the next several years--they'll be lucky to experience a soft landing.

Whatever though, more power to 'em. There are obviously a lot of motorsports fans who are willing to put their money into it. Heck, maybe all the wealth will soften some of the hatred for the US. Hard to be pissed when you're that rich.

People make a sore mistake when they use the term "the Arabs" in this kind of discussion, or where finance and politics are concerned. They also make a sore mistake when they say "they" are heading for a hard landing. The fact is that there are two economic classes of arab nations with oil: those with a lot of oil and big populations, and those with a lot of oil and small populations. The latter have by and large already diversified so much that a fall in the price of oil will not represent a hard landing.

States like the UAE, Dubai in particular, have a problem finding suitable investments for their burgeoning surpluses right now. A major component of Dubai's strategy is sports development, and has been for years. An investment in F1 would not for them be a purely financial operation, it would be a long-term strategic and marketing move. It is very plausible for them to make an offer to CVC.

I do not believe Max Mosley made a mistake in bringing up the notion that a "sovereign wealth fund" might make an offer not to be refused to CVC. On the contrary, it has always been his (and Bernie's) strategy to predict a future event as a kind of "throwaway remark" to see how it is picked up upon. That way it can be denied if reactions are adverse, or if they are not, then it can proceed.

No my point was mentioning a soverign wealth is no biggie as if Max knows they are considering buying F1, then I bet everyone else does too!

"Everyone else"...i had no idea they were looking to buy F1, did you?

Also i think Max is higher up on the F1 tree of information than most, so if he knows something i think it would be stupid to assume "everyone else" does as well.

What a pointless discussion!

Why is that? Because your comment was fatally flawed

You didn't think it pointless when you made your statement, only when someone challenges your opinion and proves it to be ill considered.

Personally I think it makes a great deal of sense for a sovereign wealth fund (let's say Dubai World) to pick up the F1 tab. CVC pays $250 million a year in interest charges on the amount it borrowed to buy it's stake in F1. A sovereign wealth fund by definition is not borrowing money to invest - it has surplus cash, and the return that it expects to get will be $250 million less than CVC needs.

It would be an imaginative and creative solution for Dubai World to acquire the commercial rights from CVC, and to then distribute this notional $250 million back to the teams, with perhaps rebates to the track owners to stimulate the fan base through lower attendance prices. Perhaps when Mosley, in all apparent innocence, makes unconnected remarks on different occasions about sovereign wealth funds and more money for the teams - he is flying a kite to gauge the reaction it gets.

In the case of Dubai in particular, as I posted earlier, such an investment is likely to be viewed in terms of both pure financial return, AND of marketing/PR/development. Despite Abu Dhabi getting a GP, I understand that Dubai wants one too. If Dubai were to assure greater financial returns for teams and track owners, this would be an extremely popular move, its chances of getting to host a race would be well boosted (despite the fact that as rights holder, it could probably award itself a race - but wait, Mosley has already thought of that with his fig leaf remark that the FIA would want a greater say in the choice of venues).

If Mosley were able to make all of this come to pass, and maybe this is his calculation, his legacy to F1 might be somewhat greater than the visuals which his recent scandal has exposed us to.

just thought you'd like to know, what oil they have left, only makes up 6% of their GDP, the rest is generated by the business generated from the oil they no longer have - and major investment in tourism and diversification. F1 will be very much on their radar.

who knows, maybe the whole plan is to sell them the rights to f1 and f2 and then create gp1 with cvc money, leaving bernie a very rich man, and max more money (as thanks) than time to be whipped.

I am not sure which GDP you are referring to though, as their are several all producing Arab states. I presume its Dubai though. If one looks at Emirates Airline (I was a Gold frequent flyer on it too), that airline (which is a superb natural hedge) might not be oil, but it sure is connected with oil. The linkages via tourism and business via the airline are similarly connected to. Include them and IMO the percentage you quote might not be so small.

Australia has the problem of selling 4% of its GDP in raw materials - gas, coal, ore etc., and those exports drive our dollar up enormously, which damages are world competitiveness. I wonder how the Dubai currency avoids gaining in value - I imagine by pushing the funds overseas?

I don't think my opinion flawed and I don't think your point is any less valid than mine. I wasn't arguing. Talk about having an arguement with yourself!

The dirham is pegged to the dollar at about 3.65 last I knew, that is the reason.
I suspect La Chat was referring to the Dubai Emirate GDP, which depending on which sources you find lists Oil as contributing 6-12% of the GDP ( though a quick search has listed more 6%)
I am confused as to how the airline would be linked to Oil? or the other industries be tied to oil so as to increase that percentage?
I would not in the least be surprised if Dubai World are interested in buying F1, but all I can say is more power to them.