Jerome
Aug 12 2008, 14:47
Kubica does fine, but lets not forget he's in a different situation than Hamilton, Raikkonen or Massa. He doesn't seem to have pressure from his teammate (makes you less mistake prone) and he drives a good car that is not able to compete with the McLarens and Ferrari's in racetrim. That also makes a driver less prone to mistakes (unless, ofcourse, he is stupid enough to bridge the gap by overdriving).
Crazy Canuck
Aug 12 2008, 16:59
Kubica, he made fewest mistakes
CC
race addicted
Aug 12 2008, 19:53
1st half - Kubica easily. Then Räikkönen. Third I'd give to Webber.
Mauseri
Aug 12 2008, 20:06
Kimi, and it's not only my opinion, it's a fact. Why have useless discussions...
GiancarloF1
Aug 12 2008, 20:19
This season, just like the last one proved there are not much difference between the current field. All drivers proven their strength at least once this season, and all proved their weaknesses as well. Some drivers who were bad at the early season, started performing lately, and vice versa.
However there are a lot of difference in the driver ranking. Some drivers are overrated, others are not.
Enzo#1
Aug 12 2008, 20:51
I say Kimi with Felipe more or less breathing down his neck. Kimi has been unlucky, no doubt. Felipe has been unlucky as well not not as much as Kimi. Lewis is the clear #1 at McCheater so he has been treated as a #1. It's still open but Kimi has been the BEST RACER up until now. But Felipe is very close...
craftverk
Aug 12 2008, 21:07
Originally posted by Enzo#1
I say Kimi with Felipe more or less breathing down his neck. Kimi has been unlucky, no doubt. Felipe has been unlucky as well not not as much as Kimi. Lewis is the clear #1 at McCheater so he has been treated as a #1. It's still open but Kimi has been the BEST RACER up until now. But Felipe is very close...
LOL
Anyways, there's no Quick Nick on this poll? This guy's been incredibly consistent and his race pace is so much better than Kubica's, it has to be Nick for me. I don't like all the bias towards Kubica in BMW right now. I hope Nick beats Kubica this season like he did last season.
molive
Aug 12 2008, 21:15
Originally posted by craftverk
LOL
Anyways, there's no Quick Nick on this poll? This guy's been incredibly consistent and his race pace is so much better than Kubica's, it has to be Nick for me. I don't like all the bias towards Kubica in BMW right now. I hope Nick beats Kubica this season like he did last season.
I thought about a 10 options poll, only to change my mind and let you guys choose "other" instead.
Anyway, you can't be serious about Nick.
Even though I agree that Kubica is a bit overated and has some bias in the media (though his come back from that big-shunt last year to win at Canada was actually pretty amazing story), Nick is experienced, he's also a german in a german outfit, and should be kicking the Polish's behind big time, but he simply isn't. So, RK gets my vote too (after Massa

)
Originally posted by craftverk
This guy's been incredibly consistent and his race pace is so much better than Kubica's.
Maybe will you try to prove it? Or don't even bother because you are so wrong.
craftverk
Aug 12 2008, 21:38
Originally posted by molive
I thought about a 10 options poll, only to change my mind and let you guys choose "other" instead.
Anyway, you can't be serious about Nick.
Even though I agree that Kubica is a bit overated and has some bias in the media (though his come back from that big-shunt last year to win at Canada was actually pretty amazing story), Nick is experienced, he's also a german in a german outfit, and should be kicking the Polish's behind big time, but he simply isn't. So, RK gets my vote too (after Massa
)
I can be serious about Nick. He's been severely overlooked this season. His qualifying has been subpar but he totally makes up for it in race pace. He beat Kubica in Germany even though he qualified 12th and was amazing at Silverstone. And the fact that the car is more suited to Kubica than himself, I definitely give him my vote.
Kubica has been qualifying well but but tends to lose positions in the race.
Originally posted by thuGG
Maybe will you try to prove it? Or don't even bother because you are so wrong.
Maybe I exaggerated. But Kubica tends to chew up his tyres quite a bit more than Nick and it tends to cost him in the race.
Originally posted by craftverk
Maybe I exaggerated. But Kubica tends to chew up his tyres quite a bit more than Nick and it tends to cost him in the race.
Well, maybe you will want to prove it?
Lada Lover
Aug 13 2008, 00:53
Jarno, but for some reason he isn't on the list.
SeanValen
Aug 13 2008, 01:07
No one really.
The first half of this season has been embarrising and shocking to talk about.
Where's Schumacher, oh riding bikes, his standards while in f1 have kinda made everyone feel dissapointing, especially this year.
I think losing Hamilton vs Alonso at Mclaren has shown it's hand this season, and Kimi should of been better in places, maybe the 2nd half of the season someone will stand up to win the title, like last year, I think Kimi despite his struggles, will stand up with Ferrari, they have a habbit of fiinishing better then they start. If Hamilton wants to make a name for himself, now's the time to go for the title.
Massa hasn't had a full season stretch for the title yet, Kimi has, so my votes on Kimi vs Hamilton, unless Ferrari really can't solve Kimi's qualifying issues, give the title to Hamilton.
I really miss Kimi's qualifying performances from his Michelins Mac days, he was better on michelins on quali days, it was a great qualifying tyre, but if he can solve this issue, he can return to the form people expect from this talent, he and Ferrari can still rule the world, alot of work to do, Kimi's amazing at Spa, he's gotta win Spa, for the sake of the season and himself, he's been off the winners podium too long, the f1 seasons demands him to return.
I loved it last season, when Luca the ferrari president said "Where's the real Raikkinen, the one they all fear?" Then he won France and Silverstone, he's great at those tracks along with Spa, but France he had reliability issues this year, and then Silverstone he had wrong tyre call, those 2 races were exceptionally annoying, because Kimi's speed was there, he needed those wins, now he's gotta be glad he's still in touch with points, even with Hams taking him out at Canada, there's still races to show the old Kimi, he'll make us believe again, you have to have faith in the IceMan, back in the freezer, and unleash the fastest laps, show Schumacher why your sitting in his seat Kimi, do it for yourself and the world!!!!!!!!!!!!!
As the biggest Nick fan around here, let me chime in.
Because of his problems in qualifying, Nick does not belong on this list.
But yet, craftverk has a point. Nick is the best on-track racer of the season so far.
thuGG asked for proof and for that I give you his +/- passing percentage. Higher than any other driver.
As a matter of fact, Kubica's (who was my choice on this list) is negative.
Heidfeld passed both Massa and Alonso this year, on track. Robert has been passed on track by Massa and Alonso this year. Robert screwed up his race at Silverstone. Nick has not made one error so far this year, bar qualifying at Hockenheim. Nobody, but nobody can make this claim.
Nick has driven with a handicap all year long by starting back on the grid with heavy fuel loads. A driver with less racecraft would not be within 8 points of his well performing team mate.
I need you to imagine Nick without his qualifying problems.
There is not one single negative thing you could say about his races. He doesn't "just sit there", but rather 'where did HE come from?"
BMW has scored 2 fastest laps so far this year. Both by Heidfeld. So much for the he's-just-slow argument. To my mind, the most clever driver out there.
Nick feels that he has solved his heat-in-the-tyre problem. Unfortunately he was not able to show this during the last 3 quals for 3 different reasons.
If correct, I expect him to be the most improved (by results) in the second half of the season.
metz, I wish your hopes for the second part come true, but in the 1st half of the season Nick can't be picked as the best driver because of his qualifying problems and because currently his teammate has more points without having a better luck.
Agreed..
I think I said so in my second sentence.
yep

I just wanted to say I fully share your hopes for Nick and your assessment of his season so far.
kubica, webber, trulli in no order
Originally posted by metz
thuGG asked for proof and for that I give you his +/- passing percentage.
I asked for proof that Heidfeld's race pace is better than Kubica's and that Robert is a tyre eater (and it slows him int the race). And you are telling me that the proof for that is that Nick passes more, of course he passes more, he usually starts from the middle of the grid. That's not a proof, there is no connection between those things.
bankoq
Aug 13 2008, 08:14
Kubica it was an easy choice. Unfortunately his car worse and worse with every race so he has probably no chance to repeat results from first half of the season.
karlth
Aug 13 2008, 10:01
If we consider the best driver to be the driver who makes the least mistakes then Kubica would probably win it, but by the same criteria we would have to consider Patresi as possibly the best driver of the early 90s as he rarely made mistakes either.
The two most treacherous races have been dominated by a single driver so I'm voting for the championship leader, Hamilton.
As for the best qualifier I would vote for Kubica and Massa.
Mauseri
Aug 13 2008, 10:09
Originally posted by metz
Robert has been passed on track by Massa and Alonso this year.
And by Kimi, at least twice!
Nick and Robert seem to use the car differently. Maybe Nick has the same problems as Kimi that it takes a while to warm the tyres up. But in the race Robert easily cooks the tyres. BMW's tyre problems seem to be even more severe than the one of Kimi, who is coping much better with it.
Originally posted by micra_k10
But in the race Robert easily cooks the tyres.
Yes, Robert is pretty hard to tyres, he is very aggresive driver, but does it hamper his performance? No. So what is the point to saying that? He can cook tyres as much as he wants, what matters is the results.
Phucaigh
Aug 13 2008, 11:38
Trulli, Kubica and Webber.
FM just ahead of LH for me, he's just been that little bit better. RK third - he's been solid but unspectacular.
KR & FA would be 4th and 5th of the people mentioned with honourable mentions to Trulli and Webber.
I think RB deserves some credit too, he's got quite good results out of a pretty awful Honda.
inca_roads
Aug 13 2008, 12:16
1)Kubica
2)Hamilton
3)Webber
Rinehart
Aug 13 2008, 13:05
Alonso????
For a 2 x WDC to drop into familiar surroundings back in the midfield, I'd have expected him to shine amongst the Trullis, Webbers, Barrichellos and Vettels of this world. I'd have expected him to be utterly outstanding on at least one or two occasions, like Hill managed in an Arrows or Barichello managed in a Jordan. I'd also expect him to have made less mistakes and been more than utterly average elsewhere. He just doesn't appear to be racing that car where it doesn't deserve to be.
For a guy who thinks he's in the picture to land a Ferrari drive, his doing a strange job of showing us he deserves it.
Don't get me wrong, I am a huge admirer of an on-song Alonso, but this is not a stellar season by his standards, in any sense of the word.
otoelpiloto
Aug 13 2008, 13:14
it has to be alonso for me
driving a wheeling potatoe, always fighting and making overtakes and being overtaken, giving expectation all over the races, never driving boring-on-rails races
i'd also add trully to my list and some spots of massa and lewis, but alonso in general
Hames Junt
Aug 13 2008, 13:17
Originally posted by otoelpiloto
it has to be alonso for me
driving a wheeling potatoe, always fighting and making overtakes and being overtaken, giving expectation all over the races, never driving boring-on-rails races
i'd also add trully to my list and some spots of massa and lewis, but alonso in general
I'm afraid that's bollocks. Take off your Alonso tinted shades and you will see that he is having a very normal season.
otoelpiloto
Aug 13 2008, 13:29
Originally posted by Hames Junt
I'm afraid that's bollocks. Take off your Alonso tinted shades and you will see that he is having a very normal season.
respect my opinion mate, the question is who's the best driver so far and my answer is alonso for the reasons I have mentioned above. final dot
Tomecek
Aug 13 2008, 13:40
1. Hamilton 62
2. Raikkonen 57
3. Massa 54
4. Kubica 49
5. Heidfeld 41
6. Kovalainen 38
Originally posted by thuGG
I asked for proof that Heidfeld's race pace is better than Kubica's and that Robert is a tyre eater (and it slows him int the race). And you are telling me that the proof for that is that Nick passes more, of course he passes more, he usually starts from the middle of the grid. That's not a proof, there is no connection between those things.
Well, I offered the passing ratio as proof since it is a real statistical number. So is the fastest lap. These two are good indication of race pace.
Of course it is helped by him starting mid field but not all of it is due to this. Many times he has been stuck in the pack with difficult passing tracks.
Heidfeld does manage to pass the front runners as well, once he gets there, while Robert has a tendancy to drop back. I gave you a list of front runners Heidfeld has passed while they had perfectly good cars. Do I need to mention the two double passes in one race? Four double passes so far this year. What can I possibly offer to you as proof?
As for the tyre eating, I never made this claim. In answer to micra_10 you seem to agree that RK is harder on tyres than NH. And that has been Nick's problem so far this year. Nick is traditionaly a very smooth, consistent driver. This year he has had to change his driving style to suit the car. Last year the traction control always spun the tyres a bit which heated up the rubber. This year, without TC he had to find some other way. Changing your style is not an easy thing. Let's see if he is successful at the end of the year.
Heidfeld has beaten team mates like Massa, Kimi, Webber, Villeneuve and Kubica. All top drivers.
If he has an off year due to the tyre-heat problem, it's no big deal. But in no way has he lost his form.
I predict he'll be close to Robert by the end of the season.
But I'm a numbers guy and so far Robert is ahead for the intent of this poll.
As I said before, number of passes doesn't prove that Nick has better race pace than Robert.
The real proof would be if you show me the lap times from each lap in each race, and showed me that Nick had more faster laps than Robert. But it also wouldn't be accurate, becauese we have to take laps when both drivers are in clean air, and both of them are still pushing (sometimes at the end of the race drivers just nursing the cars, like Robert in Canada). That would be the real proof. Generally Robert's race pace is a bit better.
EDIT:
As for the fastest laps argument, come on, both were done at the end of the race, when Ferraris, McLarens were just cruising to the finish line. Or maybe you are suggesting that he was better than Ferraris/McLarens - because, as you said this is an indicator of race pace?
Fastest laps this year are 6-5 with Robert having clean air more often as Nick is fighting through traffic.
Now I'm confused, this is your proof that Nicks race pace is better?
No.
As you said, even if I provided the proof you suggest, you would consider it meaningless.
That's the end of this discussion....
Mike Fallopian
Aug 13 2008, 17:13
One & only Robert Kubica. I love this kid, especially for his top performance in Monaco.
DarthWillie
Aug 13 2008, 18:10
Nakajima, not kidding.
There is only one driver who has been the best so far for the last two years for:
-entertainment value....providing the most amazing drives this year
- most talked, generated endless threads, hyped,hated, loved and bashed about
- most talented
- leading the WDC at the moment
-Driving the 2nd best car except for the last two races
-Crashed his team-mate in equal machinery
-Destroyed the ego of a two-time WDC, six-tenths worth, highly paid driver in a rookie season...etc etc........
His name is his excellency, Lewis Carl Davidson Hamilton son of anthony born and bred in england in the small town of stevenage in the year of our lord 1985. Champion of Formula Renault UK 2003, champion of Formula 3 Euroseries 2005, champion of GP2 at first try 2006, runners up after massa allowed kimi to win in 2007 WDC, currently leading WDC.....end of MHO
Lazy Prodigy
Aug 13 2008, 21:18
Trulli
Spunout
Aug 13 2008, 23:26
Originally posted by jesee
-Driving the 2nd best car except for the last two races
A-ha. For example in Melbourne, the best car was...?
Originally posted by Spunout
A-ha. For example in Melbourne, the best car was...?
Ferrari whose drivers made a general mess of things
Kubica hasnt really impressed me this year despite all the hype. I think hes most probably been flattered by Nicks tyre heating problems in qualifying, in the races Nick seems to be just as fast. Kubica has been pretty quick and consistent but Ive seen nothing remarkable and he hasnt even looked like legitmately winning a race or even competing for a win so he hasnt done anything special in my book.
Noone has really stood out this year. The biggest performance gap this year is between Alonso and his team mate, but hes not driving for points and has made some mistakes this year just like the main contenders, although they dont have the excuse of a poor car and nothing to lose so Id put Alonso on top, then Hamilton second.
Spunout
Aug 14 2008, 09:41
Originally posted by Will
Ferrari whose drivers made a general mess of things
Neither Ferrari was good enough to even finish the race. I´m amazed so many new F1 fans struggle to understand the concept of RELIABILITY, strictly focusing on how fast the car is.
The fastest car? True fan of Driver X assumes he can win despite of slower car, but his opponents cannot. If Kimi or Felipe win, they had the fastest car - period. If Lewis wins, well...maybe he didn´t have the fastest car. All based on fixed opinions (we KNOW Driver X is the best -> reality must bend according to that), so the fans of Lewis/Kimi/Felipe/whoever can preach the superiority of their hero to the rest of the forum.
Yawn.
Gareth
Aug 14 2008, 09:46
Voted for Hamilton. Massa, Kimi and Hamilton are all driving similar cars, with a similar number of mistakes, but Hamilton has put in a couple of spectacular drives to edge him infront.
Kubica's early season consistency would have put him up there but a couple of recent lacklustre drives just edged him out.
Alonso's been great entertainment, but trying a bit too hard has left him with too many mistakes.
All in my (very biased but humble) opinion, of course.
bankoq
Aug 14 2008, 10:19
Originally posted by Will
Ferrari whose drivers made a general mess of things
Imho McLaren has the best car this year from Turkey but you know it's just my opinion.
Bernd Rosemeyer
Aug 14 2008, 13:24
Hamilton did excellent races but stupid ones too. Same Raikkonen. Massa was good but Silverstone was awfull. Kubica is excellent but in Silverstone he was bad too. My vote goes to Vettel, who impressively destroyed a four-times cart-champion and hopefully will become one of the greats.
Bernd Rosemeyer
Aug 14 2008, 13:27
Originally posted by Will
Ferrari whose drivers made a general mess of things
I think in Melbourne McLaren was the fastest car. And it was also reliable. They probably didn't go on maximum speed there too.
GiancarloF1
Aug 14 2008, 15:43
McLaren might have been better in the season opener, but Ferrari had a 2004esque advantage until Silverstone. The car was bulletproof, and far the fastest at the same time. The drivers, especially Raikkonen didn't match the expectation. Imagine Schumacher in the same conditions, and the WDC would be completely over now.
Spunout
Aug 14 2008, 18:26
Originally posted by GiancarloF1
McLaren might have been better in the season opener, but Ferrari had a 2004esque advantage until Silverstone. The car was bulletproof, and far the fastest at the same time. The drivers, especially Raikkonen didn't match the expectation. Imagine Schumacher in the same conditions, and the WDC would be completely over now.
Can we have further info regarding your "analysis"? If Hamilton is faster than Ferrari drivers in given race, how do you know he had slower car? How about when Ferrari drivers are faster than Hamilton; how do you know they had 2004-esque advantage? I´d sure like to know about your chrystal ball...
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